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spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
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12
I''ve been looking for a stone for about 3 months, and have gone back and read every post on this forum. All of your advice has been invaluable. I have looked at jewelers, the diamond district, on line, and now at a wholesaler. I think I''m close to making my decision but still have a few concerns. I hoping you can help.

Through my brother-in-law I was able to get in to see a wholesaler, and they had a nice selection of stones. I found one I liked that was a 2.03, G, SI2, table 58%, depth 58%. It was very white, very clean, lots of sparkle and fire, and the only inclusion was a small cloud right at the edge of the crown. It had a great spread and looked bigger than a 2.21 I had next to it.

Here are my concerns:

the cloud--if you know it''s there, you can make it out with the naked eye. Should the grade be I1? Also, can it be covered with a prong/how noticeable would it be in a platinum setting?

the cert--It''s an EGL NY. They just got the stone, so they haven''t received the cert yet, but will fax it to me when they do. EGL makes me nervous, but then again, I did look at the stone next to about 10 others and it looked great.

the price--even though I''m getting a "jewelers price"--$10,500 with some room to negotiate, similar stones through pricescope seem to be a little less.

I''m leaning toward getting this stone, but want to ease my concerns on these points. Hope you guys can help. I know you can!
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
----------------
On 5/28/2003 10
6:30 AM spike wrote:


Through my brother-in-law I was able to get in to see a wholesaler, and they had a nice selection of stones.

_________________________________________________________________

As often stated in this forum, the only people true wholesalers deal with are retailers. Is your brother-in-law a jeweler?


_________________________________________________________________

Here are my concerns:

the price--even though I'm getting a "jewelers price"--$10,500 with some room to negotiate, similar stones through pricescope seem to be a little less.

----------------
I think you answered your question with that comment right there. If similar PS diamonds are priced lower, then you really aren't getting a deal. Plus, you have to add sales tax on a local purchase driving your total out-of-pocket on this diamond even higher.

Just my $0.02 worth.
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
It's definitely a wholesaler, but they will sell directly to friends as a favor. It's also out-of-state, so no sales tax. If it's ideal cut, I think it would be a good price, but still not totally sure. Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Spyder

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2003
Messages
50
If you've seen the stone with your own eyes and like it, that's what matters. Just remember that sometimes the lighting in jewelry stores is unusual, so be sure to see the stone in normal lighting to get an accurate appreciation of how it will look in regular environments.

Without a photo or plot map, it's difficult to tell if the inclusion can be covered by a prong.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
You noted that 'if it was ideal cut'....

This stone is not an ideal cut as I am sure you know. Not ideal in the sense of H&A or SuperIdeal or anything like that anyway. If this stone has spread and looks larger than other stones of the same size, it is top heavy with a shallower depth (which is corroborated by the 58% depth). So it will be hard to compare this to ideal cut stones in pricing or even beauty.

Not to say that it is a bad stone. I have a larger spread, shallower depth stone and love it. It faces up with more 'white brilliance' than fire, a preference. The price sounds great for a 2c stone--set that cloud against or under a prong and you are done. SI2 is not guaranteed eye clean so no this probably not be an I1. I1's are usually riddled with inclusions or at least more than one unless its big and smack dab in the center. Along the edge of the crown and settable against a prong definitely sounds SI2 to me. EGL USA is much better of a lab reputation wise than EGL Israel or similar, so you should be fine with NYC.

You commented that you liked this stone and it looked 'great' against 10 others you compared. That to me says it all. If you like the stone and the price is right, it sounds like a great deal. I would get it independently appraised before or after purchase to be sure that all is as it says, and if it is not, be sure your BIL's wholesaler will let you return it--no questions asked.

Good luck!
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
Mara, thanks for the thoughts. especially about the little cloud. It is right on an edge, so I would think it would be coverable, and you're making me feel better about the EGL and SI2 rating. I will definitely have it appraised independently with an option to return it. Once I see the cert I'll have more information to pass along.

I do like a spreadier stone, as long as there's not too much compromise on the brilliance. I feel like I'm getting more bang for my buck.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
It's common for a 2ct++ SI 2 stone to have slightly eye visible inclusions. I woulnd't worry too much about, that, since you're saying it can be covered...

The cut could be quite nice... None can tell without having more info's. Can you post a scan of the report once they send it to you??
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
PS. EGL NY is, in my opinion, very aggressive in color grading... Usually 1-2 grades off. Be careful of that!
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
Thanks Giangi, good tip on NY EGL. I'll look for that. Frankly, I can't tell between a G and an H, so I will definitely have a more trained eye than mine look at it. They had a K, and that I could see for sure, but not so for the G-H.

As far as the report, I'll either scan it or retype the info when I get a copy. I'd love to have your input when I do.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
All this stuff is funny once you get used, isn't it?

After you buy, you'll impress your friends with your knowledge! He he!
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
I know. Three months ago I could name the 4 c's, and that was about it. Now I know about pavilion and crown angles, fish eyes, clouds, feathers, spread, H&A, and probably more than I ever wanted to know about a diamond. It's amazing what you have to learn to make sure you're getting something good, but then again it's something you're going to have for a long time.

Everyone here has been so informative, it has made my learning curve so much faster. This is by far the best place I have found to learn about diamonds. I went into a jewelry store the other day, and the "gemologist" spent ten minutes showing me her diploma and her class workbook on cuts. I knew more than she did, and I learned it all here.

Hopefully I'm getting close to the end of my journey. I'll post more info. once I get the cert. Thank you everyone.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Hi Spike,

My thoughts would reflect that of Mara's. You definetely do not have an ideal cut but that is not to say it's not a good stone and you stand a better chance of getting a good looking diamond on the shallower side than you would the deep end. I just appraised a 1ct round diamond with a 66.3% depth and I had diamonds in the .8xct range that looked as large.
Looks like you're also in the NY area. If you'd like a verbal analysis (less expensive) or printed (more expensive) and you don't mind trekking out to Long Island I'll let you view it under all our apparatus if you'd like a verbal or written appraisal of what you actually have there. If interested book an appointment through my assistant ([email protected]), that is, if it's convenient for you to come and if you're even interested.

Kind regards and good luck to you,
Rhino
 

Nate

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2003
Messages
211
It may be hard to compare the price of the stone you are looking at with with the price's you see on Pscope. You don't have as much of an idea as to what kind of quality the stones you see on Pscope are. If you are looking at the very lowest of the Pscope prices there is more likely a reason they are priced low like that. So likely you are looking at a pretty good deal locally. Jonathan's offer could verify that if you need more confirmation!
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
Rhino, thanks for the offer, but I'm actually down in DC. I was in NYC for a few days, and swung by a place I knew in the Diamond District. I definitely will get it appraised though. Any recommendations in the DC/Bethesda/Rockville MD area?
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
Okay, here's the report: 2.03, G, SI2, 8.40-8.36 x 4.87 mm

Table: 62% (they told me it was 58%, but they didn't have the report)
Depth: 58.1%
Crown: 31.7%
Pav.: 41.2%
Culet: small

Polish and Symmetry: Very Good

I ran it through HCA and got a VG rating. I'd love to see a light scope of it, and what every one thinks before I commit. Thanks for all of your help.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
In your area take it to Martin Fuller in McLean, VA. Excellent and accurate
appraiser. Click on "appraisers" in the upper right-hand corner
of this page for his phone number and address.


Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Spike, you are a lucky devil
! Have connections direct to a wholesaler and find a diamond that speaks to you!


Just make purchase and/or return for complete refund contingent upon an approved independent evaluation. Contact the appraiser prior to purchasing the diamond so they can plan for seeing you. Shipping charges won't be much if you decide to return the diamond after you have it checked.

Sounds like you may have yourself a keeper!
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
Thanks, PQ! I'm definitely getting closer to getting this stone, but I'd still like to see a scope of it and get some "expert" input on its dimensions.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Spike--FYI the 31.7 and 41.2 are angles, not %. That threw me for a second..heehee.

Anyway, this diamond sounds really cool! Why do I say that? Because it sounds alot like mine!

My stone is a large spread, large tabled, shallow depth stone with a shallow crown angle, similar to yours. My specs are 61.4% table, 56.9% depth, 29.9 crown angle (pretty darn shallow) and 41.1 pavilion.

Your crown angle sounds okay, definitely nowhere near as shallow as mine. The table and depth are similar and your pavilion sounds good too. Mine is a G color as well and faces up much whiter because of the high 'brilliance' of the stone. This stone probably looks more like a 2.10c than a 2.03c due to the extra spread in diameter created by the shallower depth and larger table.

I ran your #'s as well as mine and compared them and our stones scored almost the same on the HCA, with VG VG G EX, yours got a 2.4 VG, mine got a 2.8. FYI--when I bought my stone, it scored something like EX VG VG EX and got a 1.5 BIC until Garry, the little devil, went and changed some specs on the HCA and now stones like yours and mine score in the 2's vs the 1's. Boo.


I love my stone, it's very white and brilliant...and it would look STUNNING in a 2c size.
For the price you have been quoted, it sounds like an excellent deal. I would get it appraised as the others suggested to be sure that it is as it says it is at Martin Fuller's and then rest easily knowing you got a deal.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.
 

spike

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
12
Yes, Mara you're right--those are angles. Thanks for the support, and I do think it is a beautiful stone. I certainly know how happy you are with yours.

I will still get it independently appraised--somewhere in South Florida, since that's where the seller is. (Yes I have covered the East Coast in my search for the right stone!)

I'm also curious to see one of those cool light scope images that shows where light is leaking. I may start a new thread with that specific request if people keep missing the stats buried in this one.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 5/28/2003 1:59:26 PM Giangi wrote:

PS. EGL NY is, in my opinion, very aggressive in color grading... Usually 1-2 grades off. Be careful of that!
----------------
Giangi, my EGL stone's color held up well against appraiser's master set (leaning closer to H) & my stone has much bl. fluor. The clarity was indeed more like SI2 (price reflected it though). But, I would advise him to have the stone looked at.

Also, EGL cert should have crown & pavillion % listed. You can plug them into HCA & see how the stone scores.

Good luck.
 
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