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I need a serious OEC education!

lin_ny

lin_ny

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
543
After a long and arduous deliberation between sapphire & diamond, I think I've decided I want an OEC for my future engagement ring. Problem is, I don't know the slightest thing about antique diamonds. I'd like to know a lot more, and this is where you wonderful people come in!! :naughty:

I've done a bit of research on cut but I can't seem to grasp the different proportions OECs have and how the cut and proportions affect optics and performance. Are there some kind of percentages I should know? I came across this video today and it scared me a little bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkMQ4Gp778w&feature=youtu.be

I'm worried that I could come across a 'dud' that has bad light performance with either a huge dead spot in the centre or around the edges and I wouldn't know the difference. Are there any telling features I should be looking to avoid with OECs? I don't want to be clouded by the " :love: :love: OOOO SPARKLYNESS!!! :love: :love: " and completely forget about getting a quality product.

The budget would be around $2-3k for the stone (I think ;)) ). I'd like the most bang for my buck so I'm hoping to be in the .8 to 1 ct range but I'd definitely consider a bit smaller too. I've emailed the gals at Jewels By Erica Grace and I'm just waiting to hear back. I plan to meet with an antique diamond dealer locally (eventually) but before I see her, I'd like to feel a bit more comfortable talking OECs.

Any tips, info, advice, would be greatly appreciated.
 
I bet the second stone in the video is showing what Dreamer D was talking about in my thread about black holes in old diamonds. Hopefully she'll see this soon and give you some more info. If you've found that video, you may also want to sear GOG's website on their info on lower girdle facet lengths and the effect on the diamond too. The information should translate right over.

I think if you're working with someone who knows the stones real well, like JBEG or OWD, then you're probably going to end up in pretty good hands. I think the larger issue may end up being which time frame you are looking for (like OEC or Old Miner Cut or Transitional) as they have slightly different flavors. I find that when I look at them side by side, I tend to prefer the look of OECs and Trannies over the OMCs... Hubs like the ice-cream coney-ness of the OMCs...

There are some threads (maybe over in the Antique section) regarding the cut of old cuts and the kinds of measurements they have and general guidelines.
 
What are you looking for in a setting? what is your setting budget?
 
Yes, I would go with this OEC...which is an August Vintage round cut for light performance. finding a nice antique OEC on a budget is a crap shoot, and I would not roll the dice on an antique stone as well performing ones are like finding a needle in a haystack. You will have a gorgeous ring with this sparkler. check out the light performance on the Megascope. You can't go wrong.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9574/
 
I prefer the AVC if you are thinking of looking at that line. I think for your budget, you'll end up in a lower color and the AVR's may not do it for you in that respect. Just a thought. People seem to be tolerate more color in a cushion.

Saw this on on Ebay.... .8 ct. It says I but I bet it is a little warmer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-TRUE-ANTIQUE-SINGLE-LARGE-80CT-DIAMOND-PLATINUM-DETAIL-ENGAGEMENT-RING-/160885363025?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257583d151

.82 ct on Loupetroop

http://loupetroop.com/listings/loose-stones-diamond/lovely-late-oec-transitional-diamond-82-ct
 
bastetcat - Thanks for the tip off on the GOG website. I've perused around there but wasn't sure where to look. I'll have another peek :) I'll also have to check the antique section... searched the whole forum for 'OEC' but mostly found threads on stones people had, wanting opinions, etc. Didn't find much for 'educational' material.

Ahhhh! That 2nd one you posted on loupetroupe looks beautiful. And quite the deal on it, too. Any idea why it would be so cheap??

mandasand - Those are both very pretty! I'm not afraid to be smaller than a 0.8... and I know size isn't everything so I know I'll have to keep my options open re: size/weight. I actually didn't think I'd be able to get a AVR in my budget... and I still think it might be a bit of a stretch. Obviously I want my bf to spend the least amount possible. Don't wanna completely break the bank.

webdiva - I've always wanted a halo setting - love both pave shank and also plain! Ideally the whole ring would be around/under $4k. I'm hoping by some miracle we can find a jeweller locally to do a halo for around 1,500. If this is completely impossible, I might reconsider. I haven't seen anything I like as much as a halo though.

ariel144 - I don't know much about AVRs. Are they modern diamonds cut to resemble OECs?
 
I have found that numbers don't mean much when it comes to oecs. I've seen some big tabled/short crowns that should look bad, but don't, and I've seen some small table/high crown that look bad when they shouldn't. It varies quite a bit.

The best thing to do is to look at a lot of pictures, and try to see them in person if you can. Look for dark centers (nailheads) and centers that look "flat"... those are the ones you want to avoid. Also familiarize yourself with fisheye, or the ring of death (reflection of bruted girdle). Sorry I can't be more specific. I usually buy them based on how they look to me, and I have a hard time describing what it is that I see.
 
I'd say have a sit down chat with BF and talk finances. When DH and I were looking for my ring, our budget crept up several times because he hadn't really done much research beforehand so every time I tried to make it conform, it just wasn't happening, somthing would have had to give with either setting quality or stone quality, neither of which he was willing to budge on, so budget had to give instead. My own learned lessons are definitely don't break the bank, but don't skimp either just because you can. Get something you'll be happy with and don't want to let go of. Look at the Leigh J Nacht reproduction settings and see how you feel about them for an old stone.

You might contact the seller on Loupetroop and ask questions. I saw the stone on Ebay, but I guess it didn't hit the reserve amount. Others here may have more info about it.
 
Ahh, this explains why we haven't seen you lately in CS...

Good luck with your ring!
 
ForteKitty - Thanks for your insight! I know you mentioned that you have a hard time describing things you see but maybe you can help me just a wee bit more... nailhead? Does that have something to do with the culet? Also - flat centres, is that when it looks just kinda dead in the middle (like the video above)? Are those very obvious regardless of the size of stone?

bastetcat - I know that not everyone feels the way I do, but I already feel materialistic wanting a certain thing (and this is just my personal self). This is just the nature of my personality. I got buyers remorse when I bought my first car. I'm kinda weird like that. My boyfriend also doesn't have a lot of money. We're in our mid-twenties and have well-established careers - but we just bought a house. He has some debt and hasn't set aside any money for the ring yet. It makes me cringe to think he'd even spend $4,000 on it... seems like so much money. Anyway, so many girls will just say "I want a princess cut" or "I just want a solitaire"... and their boyfriend will just go out and get whatever they can that fits their budget. So far, I've been so specific that my bf wouldn't be happy giving me any less than what I've expressed interest in. That being said, of course I'd like to increase the budget so I don't need to compromise on the stone or the setting, but in reality, the opportunities are endless so I feel I really need to make the effort to draw the line somewhere - and come to a reasonable agreement on a budget with him. Truthfully, I think we're both just realizing that settings are more expensive than we anticipated. :(( Sigh. So much to think about.

minousbijoux - I haven't been around because I'm completely failing at finding something even worth posting about. The sapphire market is rough in my town - just downright sad actually. I can't help but feel like I'm betraying all you lovely CSers. You've all been extremely helpful. I just don't know that I'm cut out to search for the next year to maybe, or maybe not, find the sapphire of my dreams. Maybe one day! Thanks for the well-wishes. :))
 
Yes, in the video you first posted, the middle stone exhibits nailhead. It looks like someone drove a nail thru it! ;) You can see it in all sizes. I once returned a .25ct that had very obvious nailhead!

The flat look I described looks a little different, it's when the center facets aren't very lively, so the facets can be on-on-on-off-off-off-off when you look it it, when it should be on-off-on-off-on-off.
 
I would just choose a trusted vendor on PS, give them your parameters and let them go for it. There are some good ones and they have a good eye. FWIW, my stone is a tad on the shallow side for an OEC and it performs very well. I think you can narrow them down by numbers if that is what you want to do, but in the end, it is your eyes that will decide. The peeps here won't steer you wrong...
 
lin_ny|1348018625|3270600 said:
ForteKitty - Thanks for your insight! I know you mentioned that you have a hard time describing things you see but maybe you can help me just a wee bit more... nailhead? Does that have something to do with the culet? Also - flat centres, is that when it looks just kinda dead in the middle (like the video above)? Are those very obvious regardless of the size of stone?

bastetcat - I know that not everyone feels the way I do, but I already feel materialistic wanting a certain thing (and this is just my personal self). This is just the nature of my personality. I got buyers remorse when I bought my first car. I'm kinda weird like that. My boyfriend also doesn't have a lot of money. We're in our mid-twenties and have well-established careers - but we just bought a house. He has some debt and hasn't set aside any money for the ring yet. It makes me cringe to think he'd even spend $4,000 on it... seems like so much money. Anyway, so many girls will just say "I want a princess cut" or "I just want a solitaire"... and their boyfriend will just go out and get whatever they can that fits their budget. So far, I've been so specific that my bf wouldn't be happy giving me any less than what I've expressed interest in. That being said, of course I'd like to increase the budget so I don't need to compromise on the stone or the setting, but in reality, the opportunities are endless so I feel I really need to make the effort to draw the line somewhere - and come to a reasonable agreement on a budget with him. Truthfully, I think we're both just realizing that settings are more expensive than we anticipated. :(( Sigh. So much to think about.

minousbijoux - I haven't been around because I'm completely failing at finding something even worth posting about. The sapphire market is rough in my town - just downright sad actually. I can't help but feel like I'm betraying all you lovely CSers. You've all been extremely helpful. I just don't know that I'm cut out to search for the next year to maybe, or maybe not, find the sapphire of my dreams. Maybe one day! Thanks for the well-wishes. :))
Click to expand...

I totally hear you. We bought a house last year and paid for the wedding and so forth ourselves, no credit. I feel and have felt the same way. I still feel some guilt. (Peruse my OEC thread and you will see.) But do try and imagine how you will feel in 12 months or 2 years about something you'll wear for some time to come. And more importantly, ask yourself if this will be a ring you won't change, or if you both are open to the idea of "upgrades" later. For DH and I, the actual physical original engagement ring was special and can't be changed, and that affects the way I think of other rings I might want later, if that makes sense. It wasn't something I really thought about at the time.
 
ForteKitty - Okay, I finally feel like I'm learning something! I think I might even 'get' your 'on-off-on-off' business!! :wink2:

vinjewels - Agreed. I'm waiting to hear back from jbeg and have a really good feeling about them. I'm sure they'll be able to help me out. :bigsmile: Can't say enough about everyone on here... what I've learned thus far is truly priceless and I'm so grateful to have even found this place... thank GOODNESS for everyone here.

bastetcat - Just re-reading what I wrote and your response got me teary! ;( I just value all the hard work my boyfriend does - and it's not that I don't think I deserve it, but I just feel so lucky that he's gonna put something so meaningful on my finger one day... OKAY! ENOUGH SENTIMENTALNESS! So yes, I agree on the specialness (if you will) of the original engagement ring. It's really something I'd never want to change... maybe in 10 years if we happen upon some cash I'd consider an upgrade, but really, that isn't likely. I have lots of cash I could throw towards this ring and honestly, I kinda wanna throw a couple grand into it just to get exactly what I want. That's not weird is it? Kinda unconventional, but we're totally non-traditional anyway... hmmmm :Up_to_something:

Also, saw your thread on the OEC earlier and was admiring your RB halo... just gorgeous. Exactly what I want. And the OEC is gorgeous too!!! Jeeez, lucky gal! :love:
 
Yes, August Vintage Round are custom cut to have the same facet pattern as a nice Old cut OEC Good old gold has lots of videos on OEC's and AVR's. the best education you can get online is at GOG. watch their videos on cut color, etc too. Well cut low color stones can be magnificent and beautiful diamonds.
 
I'm going to post a few bad ones and then some good ones from ebay. Seeing different types of photos will help your eyes learn how to filter out the bad stuff. Hope they help!

Semi-nail head, I would not consider this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/170909060362?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Not a full nailhead, but way too dark in center: http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-09ct-Anti...t=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item53eebf4da7

Same: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESTATE-VINT...42922899?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item35bf4f7793

Between 11 o'clock and 3 o'clock, you see really lazy facets. That's the flat look I mentioned: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-50ct-Anti...t=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item53eeb75bbe

Lazy center plus brute girdle reflection seen just around the center facets: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ART-DECO-19...72855858?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item35bb225432

Nailhead!! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Pla...74163911?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item519fd937c7

Center looks a bit flat: http://www.ebay.com/itm/14K-Yellow-...t=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item20cb72ed59

Rough girdle reflection: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Europea...76745492?pt=US_Fine_Rings&hash=item2a17223a14


I like this, but it's way too expensive. See how it looks more lively than the ones posted above?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Sty...955?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ed6b593b

This is also too expensive (for me), but I think it looks like a very nice cut: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Europea...t=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item1c2079df64
 
ariel144 - Will do. Thanks again!!

ForteKitty - You did a lot of work for me! Thank you! Each one I clicked on I definitely 'got it' more and more. So talking flat-ness, is that really just a lack of contrast between facets? Or part of it anyway? I notice GOG videos mention contrast quite a bit. That rough girdle reflection business is just nasty stuff... makes the stones look crushed up on the inside!

I can absolutely see the desirability in those nicer stones you followed up with. They are light and bright and pastel-ly OVERALL and not just in zones. Thanks to you I am becoming a quick learner. :appl:
 
Just a follow-up to my setting desires... this is a setting I fell in love with, too.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-7c-cushion-in-rose-gold-milgrain-bezel-setting-from-erd.176615/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-7c-cushion-in-rose-gold-milgrain-bezel-setting-from-erd.176615/[/URL]

I've always loved halos because they can make the centre stone look larger (and adds to the finger coverage) but if I was closer to 1 ct I think I'd LOVE a bezel like this. In white or rose gold... so yummy. So unique. :love:
 
Yes, flatness is just a lack of contrast! For an oec in the 0.90-0.99ct range, J-K-L/ VS2-eye clean SI1, you should be paying under $2500 if you look on ebay.
 
Found a few that looked decent so I messaged a few sellers.

Ebay makes me extremely nervous... is that unusual?
 
It's not for everyone. You need to invest a lot of time and it can be nerve wrecking. If you do decide to give it a try, make sure they accept returns for any reason, and use your credit card and pay via paypal.
 
Lin,
Hi there! :wavey: Old cuts take some research (learning) and knowing what to look out for as well but it's a whole lot easier than coloured stones, that's for sure. If you aren't up to all the craziness and are willing to pay a little more for precision cut (new) old cut stones, I recommend GOG. Depending on the cut, some face up whiter than others too, plus sometimes, the colour tolerance varies for people when it comes to these types of stones. I have a strong preference for high coloured modern diamonds but adore low coloured antique stones.
 
I really don't recommend ebay for someone new to old cuts or risk averse, unless you have someone who can offer you a lot of hand holding.
 
Chrono - Not up to all the craziness? You know me too well. ;)) I've definitely been oogling some GOG AVRs. Very, very pretty!!!

Rhino - You make the best videos ever! I've been checking them out recently... you're my hero! Seeing the comparisons and ASET pictures is REALLY helpful. Now if only you had my dream stone in your inventory. :Up_to_something: Perhaps I will be in contact with you to talk OECs. Thanks so much for the reply. : )

Dreamer_D - Thanks for the suggestion. I definitely agree.
 
If you are willing to wait a little, sometimes GOG can "order" stones by hurrying up the "pipeline" a tad.
 
Chrono - We definitely have lots of time. Could you elaborate? Too many quotations for me to understand you. :lol: I'll always be such a newbie.
 
What I did with my GOG stone is to email Jon my specs (size, colour and clarity, even a ratio too, if you are particular) and he can send this request to the cutting house. You are under no obligation to buy the stone. This can take a few weeks to a few months. Sometimes something close to your specs pop up and he'll let you know too.
 
Ahhh I see. Good idea... even for him to keep his eyes peeled for something appropriate. I guess I shy away from the AVRs only because of the price. Although I completely understand I'd be getting a superior product... I just don't know it'll be worth the extra $$$. Especially when it's not my money. :lol:
 
I think it really depends on what you prefer. Personally, I prefer true old cuts. If well cut, their performance can be off the charts, and old cuts tend to look a little more... spirited, with personality. Some people prefer their "old-cut" to look completely perfect, which to me seems a little like an OC housewife... botoxed and plastic. :cheeky: It's all a matter of preference, and you really have to see them in person.

I was very fortunate to have found mine. She's a crazy performer with tons of personality, and I don't feel like she's made up. She's like the Valedictorian prom queen who goes off-roading in her tiara. :bigsmile:
 
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