I need a priceguide I can count on -- ideas?

[rsilvers]

I know I want a round, D, IF, AGS 0 or GIA 1a (maybe 53 to 57 table, 61 depth), no fluor... Everything the best readily available -- at the largest size I can afford but no larger than 1 and no smaller than 5. It might be a .50, or a .66, or a .91, or a 1.0. I am happy to buy shy or to get a flat-out 1.00. But, whatever I buy, I want it to be at the best price assuming there are no issues with dealer trust and hopefully it would be bonded.

So my question is this -- what can I use as a price guide assuming a top-cut stone?

For a 1.0 ct, this guide says $11,400 -- but that price seems low -- so maybe that is a decent cut but not the very top cut I am looking for?
maybe the depth is 64 when I want 61 or so)
http://www.pm-connect.com/diamlist.html

And this guide says $14,700 for a 1.0 D/IF and is already taking into account a top cut. https://www.pricescope.com/Reports.asp?shp=8&cut=1
But is this $14,700 a "high wholesale" where a dealer would still pay up to 30% less? I don't mind a dealer who can get good deals from his supplier marking up another 10% to me, but I don't want to pay 30% to 150% markup if there is a way to avoid it.

Thanks for any insight -- especially how well/bad I am doing if I get the price from here https://www.pricescope.com/Reports.asp?shp=8&cut=1

 

[fire&ice]

Have you been reading Fred C's rubbish?

Also, what are your reasons for a D IF? Is this for yourself?

 

[rsilvers]

I tried to edit the post but edit does not work for me.

It is not for myself -- for my girlfriend. My latest thought is to get D-VS2 1ct with ex polish, sym, and no fluor in the $5600 to $7600 range, or a .91 ct D-IF ideal/ideal for about $9700 (Abazia 795004). But I still need a few days to decide -- and I know I really need to see them but I am not sure how that it easily possible.

 

[rsilvers]

Are you saying I should really be looking at a .90 F-VS2? I am open to all ideas but I don't mind budgeting $6 to $10K. My goal being to pay whatever a stunning stone costs, as long as there is no large chunk of fat in the price.

 

[fire&ice]

...umm..

I get targeted from time to time by the quality above carat weight police.......but here goes.

Many women prefer size over intense quality. That said, most women don't want a poor quality stone either. Most women just want a "pretty & sizable" stone. This can easily be accomplished w/ a G VS2 stone. Cut is very important and will hide much color & clarity flaws. Whether or not you need super ideal or ideal is a matter of personal preference. A "well cut" stone will provide a lot of "punch".

D IF 1c = 17,000 AGS0
G VS2 1c = <6,000 AGS0

I think men from the onset seem to overbuy on quality. Just something to think about.

Also, the markups listed on pricescope is quite slim from the wholesale the dealers are charged. Some e-tailers are less expensive than others.

What geographic location do you hail from?

 

[student]

My advice would be to check out a brick and mortar store to see what various cuts, colors, and clarities actually look like. If they give you a good deal, then you can go for it, and know what you're getting. If not (which in my limited experience is more likely) then you'll at least have given them a chance to get your business in exchange for their service, and you'll know what to look for over the internet.

 

[rsilvers]

She has been reading the FAQs also, and I took her to a store and she saw the characteristics under a loupe, and I never buy people gifts of lower quality than I would get for myself. And I have a Leica 10x stereo microscope with a fiber optic light ring. I am afraid I have to get quality.

I will take what you say to mean to get 1 ct or large at the best quality I can afford. And not get a .66 at a super-duper D-IF quality. Ok, I will listen to that.

So now it comes down to -- do I buy a $6,000 F-VS1 of ideal everything, or a F-VS1 for $2500 more? I suppose there is no value in that $2500 more.

Is a 1.2 ct better than a 1.0 ct? Or do people not care until they reach 1.5?

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/27/2002 10:36:16 AM

She has been reading the FAQs also, and I took her to a store and she saw the characteristics under a loupe, and I never buy people gifts of lower quality than I would get for myself. And I have a Leica 10x stereo microscope with a fiber optic light ring. I am afraid I have to get quality.

I will take what you say to mean to get 1 ct or large at the best quality I can afford. And not get a .66 at a super-duper D-IF quality. Ok, I will listen to that.

So now it comes down to -- do I buy a $6,000 F-VS1 of ideal everything, or a F-VS1 for $2500 more? I suppose there is no value in that $2500 more.

Is a 1.2 ct better than a 1.0 ct? Or do people not care until they reach 1.5?
----------------



Ahh...but I am not saying that a G VS2 is NOT quality - on the contrary nicer than most diamonds sold today. Shoppers get WAY to hung up on the paper specs of a stone. When you look at stones you must make some assumptions. 1. that the stone is indeed a "F" color 2. that it is a well cut stone. Unfortunately, neither can be guaranteed without a trusted professional. #1 can be more or less quaranteed w/ a GIA cert. #2 you will need your eyes, empirical data on the stone & possibly an independent appraisal. #2 enters STRONGLY into the equation because a well cut G stone may "face up" better than a poorly cut F stone. Remember - grading of stones is done face down. Med. Blue Fluor could make an "h" stone face up as white as an "F".

So, my point to you is that it's not that cut & dry. And, if you indeed, after reading the tutorial here and "seeing" properly graded stones decide on the F stone - go for it.

My advice to you comes from experience. We did the small little perfect stone (F VVS Ideal). It's a lovely stone.....But, I can tell you that both myself & observers go crazy over my 3c I/SI stone. I quite frankly see little color difference between my F & I (my I having quite a bit of blue fluor - and is well cut). The larger the stone the more "body color" one will see. Once set, in the 1c range few will be able to tell the dif. between F & G........and you don't walk around with your stone under 10x magnification.

Size *is* part of the quality of a stone. Size gets attention. You will see a size difference between 1.0 & 1.25 & 1.5. Also, make sure you pay attention to the MM measurements. The EGL certed stone you mentioned was quite deep and will not have the spread that a less deep stone will have - hence will appear smaller. Also, a thick girdle will hide some carat weight as well. Reading the tutorial here will arm you with some needed information.

Personally, I would go H/VS2 well cut w/ perhaps some blue fluor. I see some nice ones on pricescope in the 1.5 range for 10K. ...just something to think about.

Good luck.

 

[rsilvers]

Now keep in mind we/she are not jewlery people. She never wears makeup and only wears a class ring. No earings. I suppose this would make a diamond all that more of a beacon. But the initial concern was that 1.5 ct would simply look too large. But also have a hunch that I would soon realize in practice that I am rationalizing and it would never really look too large. I I will print out some virtual certs of 1.5s for $10K and keep a pile of them for consideration. Thanks.

 

[rsilvers]

http://www.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1057/v.cgi?stock=415495&_s=1057&_p=abaz83&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=
How about this one?

 

[rsilvers]

Actually I found lots of nice ones for under $12K once I allwed GIA certs in the search.

 

[fire&ice]

Hi link didn't come through.

You & her may indeed prefer a 1c stone. It's all personal. ....and staying in your F/VS1,2 or going G/H VS1-2 - you could save money and spend on honeymoon or save for something special.

I'm not saying buy the big rock....just not advocating going TOO far in the quality department.

Other's may have a different opinion. Since this is not a surprise, bring her into the decision about size.

As an aside, I live in the country - am most comfortable in my Levi's - often wear little to no makeup......but I LOVE big diamonds. So, sometimes you can't tell.

 

[rsilvers]

I can't bring her into the decision on size because she will say 1/2 2/3, or 1 at the very most. Party in an effort to save me money, partly because anything will seem special to her.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 10/27/2002 2:30:22 PM

I can't bring her into the decision on size because she will say 1/2 2/3, or 1 at the very most. Party in an effort to save me money, partly because anything will seem special to her.
----------------


Curious, what are her friends receiving?

I think it's great that she has a level head to save money. That approach in the long run will give you financial freedom later in life. This whole thing about spending 3 months salary is just a bunch of rubbish advertizing. It sounds like the carat in the F/G VS1 or 2 would be a sensible approach....and save the money you would have spent on the D IF

Of course, I would even consider "H".

Good luck - in the end it's what your comfortable with. Don't spend money on a diamond just to spend money. And don't feel pressured by anyone else....jeweler's included.

 

[rsilvers]

I don't know about any of her friend's rings and I am nearly sure she has never noticed them. Yes, she clips coupons and buys the groceries. I take care of most everything else. It will not stress me financially to spend $12,000 on this.

But I am thinking of this:

Setting would probably be 18K Tiffany with 6 prong platinum head. I am signed up for a jewelery making class and will try to make it myself before buying one.

$11755.

GIA
1.5 ct
VS1
G
7.43x7.45x4.53
depth 60.9
table 55
thin-med girdle
cutlet N
polish Ex
Sym EX
fluor none

Or this similar one:
$11116
GIA
1.5 ct
VS2
G
7.38x7.45x4.5
depth 60.7
table 57
girdle th-mf
cutlet N
polish ex
sym ex
fluor none

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Cut your teeth on something less demanding than a setting that holds a $12k diamond

 

[biscuit]

Hi RSilvers!

I have a question for you...what displays love the most for you? Time, affirming words, physical touch, or extravagant gifts? If I had to guess from your posts, I'd guess gifts. Here's the *important* question...what means the most for your wife-to-be?? If extravagant gifts do not convey love to her as much as your time or your words of affirmation, than you going overboard on her ring might not matter to her. Your effort might be better spent on a long, extravagant honeymoon (if quality time matters more to her than gifts).

The reason I ask is because of your post saying you don't want to involve your future wife's size wishes. If she *really* doesn't want a rock bigger than 1ct, why would you consider getting her one?? To go much larger would almost be to insult her.

If giving gifts matters to you, then compromise (welcome to marriage, right?)...gift her the best that she'll feel comfortable owning...go for the 1ct! She'll be wowed by getting the largest rock in her "want range" and you'll feel great for giving her an extravagant rock that she feels good about getting! YEAH!

Hope that helps...just my thoughts. I think you've done some good research on cut/color/clarity...what you're looking at looks good. Have fun!!!

 

[rsilvers]

I only am doing this once so I am trying to do it right as there is no chance to upgrade it like a car. I don't think she would be unhappy with a 1.5. But she would also be happy with a 1.0 or anything else I chose. I looked at some sizes in a store and I think 1.0 looks good and 1.5 also looks good.

I do have one question now -- price and size and cut being equal -- what is more important: Color G with "polish/sym" being excellent, or Color F with polish/Sym being "very good?"

 

[biscuit]

Hi RS!

If you know she won't mind, then go crazy! As for polish, when pressed, most gemmologists will tell you that it doesn't matter much - go for the VG or Ex...I prefer a symmetrical diamond, so personally I'd go Ex on sym.

As for color, see what is noticable to your eye, and what matters to you. I didn't think that a G was too different from a D or E, and if anything I didn't want a glass-like diamond so I went with a G.

As far as upgradability, if it's ok with your fiance, it is possible with some dealers to get a 100% upgrade option. Diamond Brokers of Florida will give you full trade in value of any diamond purchased from them for another better diamond from them...so if you weren't sure or if your wife wanted a larger diamond in the future, you'd always have that option. Just a thought...I know some people don't like the idea of trading in their original stone.

Hope that helps....have fun!!! Happy shopping!

 

[phi368]

In response to your quote, "You can't upgrade this like a car" (something like that), I just wanted to let you know there are several places that do allow diamond upgrades. Gold Old Gold and Diamond Brokers of Florida both allow you to trade in your stone any time down the road and apply your purchase price to another stone as long as it costs more (only need a $1 more).

 

[rsilvers]

I know, but I meant that it would not be in our nature to want to do that -- so I wanted to get something from the start that is a good match. So many decisions, compounded by the fact they are not all sitting in front of me.

 

[rsilvers]

Biscuit,

Not extravagent -- I heard to spend 2-3 months salary. So that price is normal within what I should spend.



I am just joking!

 

[biscuit]

I hear you, man!

now, $100,000, THAT would be extravagant! (lol)

you know, what you're willing to spend *is* super extravagant on my budget! And honestly, I think this is one of those things in life where extravagance is ok. I'm sure she's gonna love it!! Have fun...happy shopping!