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I hope at least one person can support what Im about to buy

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GratefulReader

Rough_Rock
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Apr 9, 2004
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Hi everyone-

Long time reader, first time poster.
First I''d like to thank the people here for everything I''ve learned. Not only that, I''ve been entertained a lot.

Ok to the point. Since I learned almost everything about diamonds here, I wanted to share my experiences.

I am about to buy an engagement ring at Stuart Moore.
Now I know there''s that long nasty thread on Stuart Moore and a lot of people here have a bad taste in their mouths. But I believe his rings are very beautiful.

My girlfriend and I stopped in one day to check out the Kretchmer settings when she fell in love with Stuart Moore''s suspension setting. Basically she liked it a lot, and thus that''s what I wanted to get for her.

8 out of 10 of you are probably gonna say I paid too much or that Im stupid, but here are the specs and prices.

I''m looking at the following stone:
-GIA Cert
-2.03 carat Round Brilliant
-F
-SI1 (eye clean, fairly happy w/ 20x microscope inspection)
-57% table
-61.4% depth
-Excellent/Excellent
-Thin-Med girdle
-No culet
-No florescence

for $23,850.
The setting (it''s very pretty you should check it out) is $4660.
Plus California''s wonderful 8.5% sales tax.

After reading stuff here and GoG, I was very sceptical about the stones they would show me, especially since they only show me GIA reports (no BrillianceScope, IdeaScope, AGS, etc, etc) . I assumed they were gonna be good but not top notch. But I was very pleasantly surpised. The cuts they got me were quite nice.
At least nice for my untrained eye. But this is my amature eye + 4 weeks of reading pricescope+other sites non stop. So I figured I was slightly more knowledgeable than the average joe off the street.

The problem is that they only allow me to buy their diamonds and it''s quite a bit marked up compared to PS prices.
But I have no choice since Im shopping there for the setting, not the stone.

But I have no quarrels. I know it''s considerably expensive, but it''s the ring my GF wants and it''s the one that I want to get her. End of story.

The only perspective I wanted to bring to those non-experts here is to remember why you came to this site in the first place. We wanted to learn the most possible so that we can get the best possible diamond for our loves. It wasnt to become pseudo-diamond experts/investors.

For the same price (about $31k), I could have probably gotten a 2.5-3.0 carat E VS1 or something. And Im sure you''d have no problems linking me to sites that sell them. But the bottom line is that I wanted to get the ring (setting and stone) that my girlfriend wanted. I wanted to give her the experience to window shop. I want her to be able to go back and get her ring serviced at the store.
I want the whole package cause I thought that would make her happier than getting a "better deal".

So this post is starting to really suck... didnt turn out how I expected.. but what I wanted to say was to remember that price isnt everything, and not to completely dismiss B&M stores or even designer stores (the Harry Winston, Tiffany, etc of the world).
Give it a try. Maybe it''s not your thing. But that fine.
I came here. Learned a lot. Went back for forth for weeks. I finally decided to go "against the flow". But thanks to the posters here I am now confident that Im not getting both ripped off and getting a crap diamond. I know it''s overpriced, but it''s the stone I want. And that sense of knowing what Im paying for is simply priceless. And for that Im eternally grateful.

I''d love to buy a stone from GoodOldGold.com or WhiteFlash.com(or the other fine internet retailers) one of these days in the future.
Thanks again. And I hope to post again
 
OK
# 1. You know the lowest prices after 4 weeks around here.

You have the right to pay for the level of service / design / style / cache' etc that you desire. I would not be seen dead in MacDonalds either
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#2. You also know that for <$30 including shipping you can get an ideal-scope and check the cut quality yourself. So if you have doubts then just do it
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#3. I can not believe SM, who has posted here and surely knows about Sarin proportions and Ideal-scope etc has not offered you that level of service to make you feel comfortable. Shame on him.
 
Hi GratefulReader and welcome. First off, I'm sorry you felt you needed to apologize for purchasing from a B&M rather than over the internet. I definitely don't think internet purchasing is for everyone, and anyone who decides to shop at their local store (including Tiffany's) should not have to defend their decision. It seems that PS posters sometimes have a tendency to blast anyone who does not go the internet route.




I'm glad you have used the information presented here to educate yourself enough that you feel you are getting a nice diamond. I do agree with Gary about investing the $30 on an ideal-scope. I have found it to be a very helpful tool when not all the numbers and angles are available. The knowledge you have received from places such as PS and GOG gives you a significant advantage over the average B&M customer. I'm sure you have compared enough diamonds to be able to differentiate between a nicely cut stone and a dud.




I am not familiar with Stuart More, but if purchasing a ring and one of their diamonds is what your girlfriend wants, then that is the right purchase for you. You are NOT stupid, and if the two of you love the package (ring and diamond), then go for it and be proud!!!




That said, I hope you will post pictures once you have made your purchase. I, for one, really enjoy seeing pictures of all the beautiful and unique ring designs.
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DiamondLil
 
I have to agree with diamondlil. You went into the purchase with your eyes wide open, you bought something that your girlfriend loves, and you're both happy. All we can say to that is congratulations! I'm very happy for you.

Daniela
 
Is is this ring?

I'll be the next person to support the decision
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. I was one of the folks standing up for Stuart Moore on that thread. It was before I knew a setting cost almost five grand
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, but they hand-fabricate really nice jewelry. Almost nobody hand-fabricates settings anymore (no cast parts, metal worked by hand). Very cool, very special.

My most recent purchase was from a small local shop because it was something unusual enough that most internet folks don't have access or don't know enough or don't care for the hassle of finding the right one. There is more to fine jewelry than superideal h&a etc.

stmoore-suspension.jpg
 
If elmo guessed right, the setting is just about the most perfect diamond showcase ever
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every spec, shade of color and arrow tip will be properly set on display. It would be a good idea to see how the particluar stone looks in it. This is one quite merciless way to submit a diamond to pubic scrutiny !
 
One more vote! The setting in the pic does have just the right amount of 'twist' to show it'e precious nature. The style is not unknown: tension and quasy-tension rings almost like it are made, sometimes under the name "book ends setting". Close as they get - none I know is exactly like. And yes, flawless qiality shows more in the make of jewelry than the diamonds themselves
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Copy of ET.JPG
 
Pics are mandatory! That's one beautiful setting if it's the one posted.

You made a decision that is right for you. I can't say it's a decision I would have made

I just can not in my heart of hearts support someone who would hold a setting hostage to insure a diamond purchase. AGS0/H&A diamonds are priced on the web at about 15k-17k. Even at the high range, you are paying a 6k premium. That's nearly a 40% markup.

Again, while I support your decision, I can not support S.M. business practices. If he wants to ensure a certain diamond will go into his setting, that is understandable. But, the profit margin is not.
 
Congratulations on your decision. It looks like a lovely ring and stone, and the fact that you know it is what she wants is great!

To make two points on your "appology".... it sounds as if you can afford to buy what you want for your intended. Some people shopping for an e-ring are much more budget constrained, and do want to maximize what they can get for a certain amount. And, some B&M's don't carry lively, beautiful stones, but instead, the "frozen spit" variety. I think it is great tht you found what you want locally, and agree that it isn't all about price. But, I think the reason people here often push toward the Internet vendors is due to the above 2 reasons. I'm all in favor of supporting the local jewelers if they can offer competitive quality and reasonable pricing. Their business is changing, and we all want them to survive!

Congratulations, and come back and post pictures when you have it in hand!
 
Congrates!!
Enjoy your new ring and may you both have many many happy years together :}


You made an educated decision on whats best for you and your Lady there is no need to be sorry for that.

Oh almost forgot please post pictures! :}
 
It does sound like you are making an informed decision, spending money you have willingly, and buying what your lovely lady wants. That sounds like a perfect decision.

Yes, please post pictures once you get it and more details on which setting it is, etc.

Often you can get something similar for less, but that is not the same as getting the same thing for less. I would never willingly pay extra for the same thing for no reason, but designers and warranties and local service and seeing before you decide have a value as well. Considering the "value" of those things, it sounds like you've made the right decision for yourself.

You have to remember that the people who are always talking about paying the least and getting the most may not have your kind of budget to work with. I'd rather get a one carat than a half carat any day, but an uninformed consumer may not know he can get that when he walks into the average B&M and hears their schpeel. That doesn't mean that paying top dollar for what you want and can't get elsewhere is wrong, just that some people value more bang for their buck over name brands, warranties, service, etc. What would be wrong is if you didn't have any idea what 2 carat F SI1s and similar settings were going for on average elsewhere and were making an uninformed decision . . . but you're not, so congratulations and enjoy your lovely ring and partner in good health and happiness!
 
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You have to remember that the people who are always talking about paying the least and getting the most may not have your kind of budget to work with. ----------------


This statement is simply not true. In fact, it's called smart shopping. And, probably why people have no/healthy budget in the first place.

Weighing all your options & picking one is a sound decision. One may not fall on the least expensive option.

Please keep in mind, it is not your decision that I am having problems with. It is S.M. decision to charge such a premium for a stone you are *required* to buy. I see it as a monopoly.
 
Congratulations on your purchase! You should not feel like you have to apologize to anyone for what you buy....you are educated and that's really all Pscope is about in the end. B&M and Internet should not be at war...B&M's still carry items that some internet dealers do not have. Though I also deplore SM's policy of not allowing a setting to be purchased without an overpriced stone...personally I would not have given them my business based on principal but that would just be me.
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PG...I also disagree with that statement. It sounds like you are implying that those who want the most for their dollar can't afford better. In my opinion, people who want the most for the least are savvy shoppers and know the value of a hard-earned dollar. It doesn't mean that every purchase is going to be savvy...if you fall in love with a $500 purse and have to have it, shopping around doesn't make a difference if you love that purse. But for the most part...savvy shopping *elsewhere* most of the time may allow someone to have that luxury of the $500 purse when the time comes. So it may not be that one can't afford better, but rather that they make the conscious decision to NOT go for that. That statement is a huge generalization IMO.
 
I understand your points F&I and Mara - I expect though that wanting to use your own diamond at SM is like asking Tiffany, Harry Winston, and other such stores to let you use your own stone. They're selling the complete package and experience along with the very high quality product.
 


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On 4/10/2004 1:02:14 PM elmo wrote:




I expect though that wanting to use your own diamond at SM is like asking Tiffany, Harry Winston, and other such stores to let you use your own stone. They're selling the complete package and experience along with the very high quality product.
----------------
Yeah and I wouldn't shop at those stores either if I couldn't do things my way.
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Don't even get me started onto Tiffany since it's not Friday, but I will say that I was in there last nite to buy Greg cufflinks for his wedding gift and tried on the famous Tiffany engagement ring. NOT impressed!! The head was wayyyy too low and from the side had a weird squished looking profile (with a 1.72c stone). The arrows weren't visible as they were in my stone, and my stone had broader flashes of color though the Tiffany stone did sparkle quite prettily. After all the talk of the famously beautiful classic Tiffany setting that has spawned so many replicas and so many Friday Pscope discussions...I was a bit let down AND secretly pleased to realize I didn't like it in the least. Hee.
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I think the ring is lovely, and you made the decision that's right for you. I applaud your research, and think you did the right thing for you both!

That's the most important thing, being happy!

win
 
So we're starting a new tradition, Stuart Moore Saturdays?
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Don't get me wrong, I too prefer to roll my own when it comes to stones and settings.
 
...........You have to remember that the people who are always talking about paying the least and getting the most may not have your kind of budget to work with.............

PhoenixGirl, I know what you meant. You said "may not have," not "don't have," so I don't think people can really call your statement "not true." Besides, the rest of the paragraph clarifies your point: Some people don't mind paying more for a few extras, and other people would rather forego the extras to get a little more diamond for their money--regardless of what their budgets are.

In any case, it seems that everyone agrees that GratefulReader made an informed decision and has no need to apologize for that.
 
I honestly don't understand why, after all this time, people still come here feeling the need to be apologetic about purchasing at a B&M store. I even further don't understand DiamondLil's comment that Pricescopers "BLAST" people who don't make purchases via the internet or make them feel they need to defend themselves for their choice..




What is it about this that you don't understand? The spirit of PS has NEVER been "you MUST buy online"....the mantra around here is "BUY INFORMED". That's IT....it's that simple. Why do some of you insist on being myopic on this?




If you bought informed and you choose a B&M, great. If I bought informed and I bought online, ALSO great. No one here has *ever* said there is only one right choice that fits everyone. The common theme here is "know what you're doing, and know it BEFORE you buy." Just because I wouldn't choose your way doesn't mean I'm bashing it......it means it's not the right choice for *me*. Same in reverse also.




I'm just tired of hearing how PScopers only "bless" one way......that's simply not the truth.
 
Gratefulreader - thank you for your comments and congratulations on your engagement! You have given me the courage to post my own pics...

I have noticed a slight tendency (although unintentional) at PS to nudge a-bit-hard in the internet direction. I truly believe that no one here is trying to discourage B&M purchases or purchasers! I have never felt unwelcome! And, it could just as easily be said that it is perhaps a tinge of embarassment or mild guilt on the part of the newly informed B7M purchaser that makes them (us - I am one of them) perceive a bit more bias than may truly be present.

It is a little embarassaing to seemingly make the statement that money is no object for you when that is not necessarily the case (you had a price in mind that you were willing to pay). As everyone stated so well, it is just that you choose to spend it this way rather than that. As we did.

I feel much better about my purchase becuase of the generosity of this community - I am fully informed about my decision and do not regret it for a moment. I would have regretted it if I had found PS after receiving my e-ring! And like you, I feel confidant about what I have learned here in order to make my future purchases from the merchants I have become familiar with here. I have already ordered another ring wholly on-line!

Thanks to everyone at PS for your generosity of information and kindness of spirit.
 
If you love it, and your future wife loves it, that's all that matters!
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Fwiw, I did not buy my ring online, I bought it at Tiffany's as a matter of fact, and I've never felt unwelcome here.
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You have nothing to be sorry for! Regardless of what is said here, or what is the perceived bias here, all that matters is that you made the right decision for you. You bought something that you love for a price that you are comfortable with. That's great! Not everyone at PS buys their stones on-line. My e-ring and wedding ring were done by a local jeweler. I really love my jeweler and hope to work with her a lot in the future. I don't ever plan on buying a stone on-line. But, do I think it's wrong for others to do so? Of course not! Everyone chooses what they are comfortable with.


By the way, I LOVE Stuart Moore designs. I also love the fact that he showcases many designers (who are artists!) that you can't find elsewhere in the United States. I have been to the SM store in Newport Beach and they have some amazing pieces. Congratulations on buying such a BEAUTIFUL ring!
 
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On 4/10/2004 2:21:52 PM elmo wrote:

So we're starting a new tradition, Stuart Moore Saturdays?
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Don't get me wrong, I too prefer to roll my own when it comes to stones and settings.----------------


How about Semantics Sunday. *May* I elaborate?
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Does Stuart Moore sell the whole experience? I thought his shick was to sell unusual & handcrafted settings to showcase the stone. I really don't know the answer. I have to say I have never worked with a craftsman/goldsmith (including one who is exhibited at several museums, including the Renwick)that insisted on sourcing the stones.

What about a family diamond? Would he refuse then?
 
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On 4/11/2004 6:31:25 PM fire&ice wrote:


What about a family diamond? Would he refuse then?
----------------

It's a great question I think.
 
I don't agree with the "no stone, no setting" policy, but it's not unique. Most of the high end B&M vendors work this way from what I can tell. I think if you have a family diamond, you might have to commission a custom piece.

In this case the $5k setting is really a $11k setting given that there is a $6k premium on the stone, and like it or not, stones are commodity-like. It's a personal choice if you want to spend this premium on a known setting or take the risk of doing one on your own.
 
I'm lazy. Can someone please tell me what type of operation S.M. is? I did not think it was a traditional B&M. I thought he was a goldsmith/designer. Big difference. Honestly, I've worked with the best. I have *never* seen someone insist on sourcing the stones.
 
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On 4/12/2004 10:10:38 AM fire&ice wrote:

I'm lazy. Can someone please tell me what type of operation S.M. is? I did not think it was a traditional B&M. I thought he was a goldsmith/designer. Big difference. Honestly, I've worked with the best. I have *never* seen someone insist on sourcing the stones. ----------------

Go to http://www.stuartmoore.com, select "high bandwidth", then select "galleries" under "stuart moore collection" to see a Flash walkthrough of each of their stores in NYC, Newport Beach, and SF. I would not call this a traditional b&m
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, rather a more "high fashion" b&m
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. It is my impression and not my experience though - have never been in their "galleries".
 
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On 4/12/2004 10:43:05 AM elmo wrote:

----------------
On 4/12/2004 10:10:38 AM fire&ice wrote:

Go to http://www.stuartmoore.com, select 'high bandwidth', then select 'galleries' under 'stuart moore collection' to see a Flash walkthrough of each of their stores in NYC, Newport Beach, and SF. I would not call this a traditional b&m
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, rather a more 'high fashion' b&m
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. It is my impression and not my experience though - have never been in their 'galleries'.----------------


I didn't visit the website. My regular ole dial-up took too long to load. But, I see where the disconnect is with me. I thought he was an individual. So, I see the full service thing as an option.

But, it's still an option. I do work with one person here that has a somewhat similar operation(though one store/smaller scale) who doesn't insist on sourcing the stones. Maybe it's me. I like to deal with people who are flexible. He designed a pair of e.r. for my mom w/ her birthstone (not a real expensive stone). Since it was easier for him to match color/size/cut, I had him buy them. He told me the wholesale cost/carat & added 15%. I thought that to be fine. His focus was & is the design aspect, which I gladly paid him for.
 
Grateful Reader, Congrats! Everyone has a choice to make when it comes to their money, and the only person who should ever agree with you and matter is your wife-to-be!

Anyone else is not necessary, and if you went into a purchase well informed and made a decision to spend more, you are no different than a guy looking for a 1ct and under up with a 1.5 he gets a bigger size, and you get a ring SHE LOVES. in the end it's all about making that person happy whom you will be with for years to come!

So congrats to you both. I bought my stone at a B&M that no one heard of or recommended on PS, and everyone was so supportive of the purchase that took us three months of intensive searching to find! Not one comment on not buying on-line. Honestly.

Price Scope is all about helping people, and since many have internet, they can direct people qucikly to stones on-line, versus going to a jewelry store and telling the person, there's a stone at Bob's Jewelery on the corner of Main and Third in Walla Walla Washinton. Check it out... So if you're ever in Walla Walla, do go see it! Oh and bring your gorgeous and unique Stuart Moore ring!!!
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The best to you both and GOOD LUCK!!
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