I found a beautiful stone, but the numbers dont correspond...does this matter?

[nightswimming]

Ive been following these boards for the past year, so I knew what I was looking for. Because I was hesitant to order a princess stone with low ratings online, say SI or H color, I wanted to search for the stones with awesome numbers and great optics. So now I go visit a local jeweler for the first time who has a good reputation in the area. He shows me these stones that look incredible, are perfectly eyeclean, and colorless. I mean, yeah, next to a "perfect" number stone you can tell a difference, but when you just see it on its own, its stunning, and looks just as good, at a fraction ofthe cost. When all is said and done, this SI E color stone at the store looks just as good as the VVS1 F colors Ive seen. But its depth lower than the table by maybe 15%, and its crown height is 12: that is, the numbers arent what they are supposed to be. But the stone shines beautifully. Are numbers related to beauty only? Now I dont know what to do - get a stone with great numbers and optic performance, or get a stone that looks beautiful, regardless of the numbers. I am on a limited budget, and for the price of the "good" stone online, I get the stores stone and the setting. Im so confused. I realize online I am paying for the guarenteed stones quality and name. But if I can get a beautiful stone at a local place, why do the numbers thing?

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/6/2003 12:30:53 AM nightswimming wrote:

But if I can get a beautiful stone at a local place, why do the numbers thing?
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If you can get a beautiful stone locally to you........if it speaks to you and you are happy with the price being asked......then there is no reason to do the numbers thing.

Buy the stone that appeals to you.

 

[valeria101]

Got Salt?


Numbers are just that. The ratings (ok, I don't know exactly which ones, but it does matter little for an argument of principle antway) are a nice guide and useful reference not LAW. If someone might try to impose them as such, I'd run. You should go for the stone you like. The numbers, believe it or not, are there to make sure buyers would have some reference to start from given that not too many people have the opportunity, time or inclination to browse hundreds of stones and see what is a good range of cutting parameters they enjoy.


Your post reads to me as: " a small improvement in light return above a certain treshold does not matter ". Well, sure so. While this "threshold is different for different people, there always is one.




Same about the color and clarity grades. VVS-VS are not grades based on the visual impact of the stone, but on the number and size of inclusions. All these are eye clean and some SI are too (see the description of GIA grades: this is what they say). Maybe VVS measures rarity, maybe snobbery, perfectionism or nothing, but is by no means suposed to convey a certain visual appearance VS does not. Is this fine print? Not really: teh definitiona of GIA grades are clear enough. About color? Well, you did see them... and it is farely common knowledge that jewelry stores rely on the obvious perfect whiteness of anything above I: if there has ever been a whide cast poll about the visual effect of diamond color, this is it! And quite a few people and firms have already bet their commercial fortunes of it.




Besed on the above, I think you did use all information available about diamond grades in the best way I can think of, and you are about to make a great buy! Hope to hear more about it and see the obviously gorgeous result!

 

[Rhino]

Perhaps you have been misinformed regarding the numbers.




What indeed are the numbers of the stone you're looking at locally? Just curious. Perhaps they are not as bad as you've been led to believe.




Peace,


Rhino

 

[nightswimming]

Well, for example, here is a stone that I thought was beautiful:

1.00 ct
E
SI1
5.43x5.23
Depth: 81%
Table: 69%
Crown Height 12
$4900 which includes setting

This was very nice too:
1.03
5.56x5.35
H
SI2
Slightly thick to thick
Depth 67%
table 73%
$4200 includes setting (white gold)

They both shined, and had no visable pepper in them - they were eyeclean. I have also seen perfect stones with perfect numbers. Sure they were amazing and there was no comparison. But when you looked at each stone by itself, WITHOUT comparing them, then the above two looked amazing. The girlfriend wont compare her ring side by side with better stones. If the stone is beautiful enough, perhaps then I can save $. Or should I go all out, buy the perfectly cut stone, and end up paying $5,000. My concerns is that down the line, the stores stones above may chip, as hey dont provide brilliancescope or sarin, etc. So Im buying "unknown", to an extent. Do the prices above seem right, or too high? Please help...anyway that you can. THank you I appreciate your help! Leo

 

[nightswimming]

thats all the info the store could give me. Is the price for these good, is it a good deal or too high? On average, what do ya think?

 

[Giangi]

You know, numbers don't tell you everything about fancy shaped diamonds...
The first one may be very attrative, but it's so deep! It looks considerably smaller than what it should be. But, if it looks that good, it may be a good option.
The second would be in the ''no-go'' zone by numbers, but may be pretty, as you noted.
If you are buying locally, the prices are reasonable. You might get a better deal buying on the internet, but if you feel like you should see it before you buy it, a B&M place is the way to go.

 

[Rhino]

Hi night,




The prices seem fair for a B&M operation. Of course there are alot of variables I'd like to know that are not provided (primarily the crown/pavilion angles). Having said that though, while the depth on option #1 is quite deep, hitting over the 80% zone, this will make the stone appear smaller than it's intended carat weight as Giangi correctly pointed out.




However, my personal experience with deeper cut stones and those with taller crowns have been very positive with regards to optical quality. In our "educational diamonds" section, under fancy shapes you'll see a .84ct F VVS2 princess cut we had sold that had a 77% depth, 64 table and the crown height was 15%. The numbers sound quite unorthodox however it's optical results were screaming. A client from pricescope came in to see the stone for himelf since he was reluctant to purchase because of the numbers. Once he saw the diamond for himself and compared it to others (we keep stones with varying optical results in house so people can compare), he JUMPED ON IT.




The stone you may be looking at locally may indeed by similar but I am of course very hesitant to recommend something I've not seen or inspected personally, however it is definetely possible you have a stunner there.




My experience with stones that have tables that much larger than the depth have not been that positive. Of course there always seem to be exceptions to the rule but if you also go to our education stones then click on the link that says "learning stones" you'll find a link that says "common princess". The comparison made there is an extreme example but has been my experience with princess cut diamonds of that order.

My suggestion would be to ask the person you're dealing with if you could have the stones you're considering analyzed by a pro. RockDoc, Rich Sherwood or Dave Atlas can perform optical tests on the stones you're considering and help assist you in making the wisest choice. So I'd narrow it down to my 2 favorites, send both to an appraiser and let the appraiser assist you.

Hope my suggestions help.

Kind regards,

Rhino