I bought an incorrectly graded stone - what can I do???

[csand13]

I purchased a 1.51ct E, I1, very good cut stone/e-ring from Weisfield Jewelers in June of 12. It came with a GSI certification (which I've since learned means nothing). The total cost of the ring was around 7500 and I traded in another 1ct that they credited me 3000 for. The setting itself cost about 500. I ended up financing the rest of the ring cost.

I've recently decided to change my set - a different setting and a higher quality stone. Over the past few weeks, I've been looking at other stores/jewelers to see what I would like, as well as see about selling my current ring (to help fund the next one). I've spoken with 6 or 7 different private jewelers, all of which have said the most they would give me for the current ring is around $1800. Each has also said they certainly don't think the stone is graded correctly. It has been highly suggested to me that I have the stone graded by GIA (there is a lab local to me) to validate the true grade of the stone. If it is at all off from the grading I was given by GSI, I've been encouraged to approach Weisfield about returning the ring I bought and getting all of my money back, as well as compensation for the ring I traded in, and if they are not willing to cooperate, I should sue. I understand they can sell a ring for more than its worth, but they can't sell me a ring (stone) that isn't the grade they're selling it as...right?

As you would imagine, I've been totally blown away, considering the price I paid for what I thought was a decent stone. I knew I wasn't buying the best of the best, but I feel like I have been totally screwed. At this point, I just want to get rid of the ring - it is completely tainted to me. Do you think I'll have a shot at getting my money back if the ring comes back from GIA graded differently from the current GSI grading? If Weisfield doesn't try to rectify the situation, is it appropriate to sue? I don't want this to be difficult and I don't want to go the legal route, but I will if I have to.

 

[kenny]

First, let me say I'm sorry for your experience.
Second, let me say it's very common.

GIA and AGS are the two labs in the US that hold very tightly to color and clarity standards.
Other labs may not.
I've read here there can be as much as 7 grades of discrepancy between GIA and the flakey labs.
That would mean a stone with E VVS1 grades from a flakey lab may get grades of L I2 from GIA.
IMHO, what these flakey labs is doing is a fraudulent as GIA saying a stone is 1.2 carat, but another lab saying it is 1.5 carat.

They get away with it by saying, "Oh, diamonds are graded by humans and it's all opinion."
I disagree, GIA also uses humans, but they nail it within a grade (the fine print lets them be off by one grade).

There is nothing you can do.
You got screwed like zillions of other diamond buyers.
Sorry.
I would love to see the government step in and clean up this scandal.

You could have the stone removed and sent to GIA, but it will come back with lower color and clarity grades.
Then you are stuck with the conundrum ... do you sell it with the GIA lower (but reliable) grades or with the higher grades from the flakey lab?
There are plenty of uninformed buyers so maybe the later will get you more money, if you can still sleep at night.

After you put this experience behind you please read about diamonds here, especially about CUT!!!
Read Pricescope's Advanced Tutorial under the Knowledge tab near the top of this screen.

 

[chrono]

Kenny is right on all counts and I am sorry that you did not know this prior to getting your ring. Unfortunately, I don't think Weisfield is obligated to refund your money nor compensation for the ring you traded in. I am sorry that there is nothing you can do about this.

 

[Christina...]

I'm sorry too. Unfortunately I believe this happens much more often than anyone would like to think. It makes me very angry and I hate the thought of you just having to walk away from the experience. I think that I personally would have to notify the jeweler and make him aware of your recent experience and that I felt cheated and would be recommending to all my friends, family and coworkers that they stay far away from his store front. It won't get your money back but at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that others won't get taken advantage of the same way you did, and perhaps this particular jeweler will decide to grow a conscience when he sees his reputation and business on the line.

 

[user_jason]

It looks like Weisfield Jewelers is a chain, correct? Did you buy from the owner or an employee?

 

[csand13]

Thanks for the info. Not what I wanted to hear, but I appreciate it.

At this point, I want to walk away from the situation the least screwed as I can.

Since I don't have a leg to stand on from a legal perspective, and I can't sell the stone for even enough to pay my debt on it, I do have the option of trading it in to Weisfield, and at least leaving with a better stone. While I certainly don't want to support their business, I don't want to end up stuck with this stone. I can trade in the ring for up to 6500 (I can negotiate a lower value if I want), and would then have to spend double whatever the value I trade in. I'll only spend half of the new cost. Thoughts?

Also, the best stones Kay/Weisfield offer are the Tolkowsky ideal cuts (for those who don't know, Kay and Weisfield are the same company). Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that these stones don't sparkle like other ideal cuts, say from Ben Bridge (just an example). Any knowledge about Tolkowsky stones?

 

[csand13]

Weisfield is a chain - they are a division of Kay Jewelers. I worked with the store manager at the time I purchased, but she is no longer at the store. She IS at a different location, though.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The time to get an apraisal is during the return period, so I am doubtful you can do anything about it at this point.So sorry.

 

[csand13]

I've certainly learned that. I've educated myself a lot since my last purchase (jewelry has actually turned into quite a hobby), so I'm much more prepared this time, and knowledgeable about what I will and will not purchase.

The next one will be immediately appraised. At the original purchase, I didn't plan to get rid of the ring, so it never crossed my mind.

 

[denverappraiser]

Sorry for your troubles.

Kays and Weisfields are part of the same chain called Sterling Jewelers and I think the trade up offer extends across the whole chain. There are others beyond those two. Jared’s is part of that group for example. They have a larger inventory and you might look there to see if they have something you like better.

 

[Christina...]

I guess it would depend on what they offered you for a trade and what you would have to spend to purchase an accurately graded and well cut diamond from them. I have a feeling that you could probably do better taking the $1800 you were offered, and add that to your upgrade budget and search for a stone through a trusted PS vendor. I didn't realize that Weisfield was a chain initially, but it's been my experience that chain stores grossly inflate their prices and offer inferior products. I would certainly want to make sure that I got the absolute most for my money this time around, and I think that you will find that online with help from the veterans here. If you'd like to share your budget and criteria we could make some recommendations. It might make making a decision in how to proceed that much easier....

 

[Dreamer_D]

I purchased a 1.51ct E, I1, very good cut stone/e-ring from Weisfield Jewelers in June of 12. It came with a GSI certification (which I've since learned means nothing). The total cost of the ring was around 7500 and I traded in another 1ct that they credited me 3000 for. The setting itself cost about 500. I ended up financing the rest of the ring cost.

I've recently decided to change my set - a different setting and a higher quality stone. Over the past few weeks, I've been looking at other stores/jewelers to see what I would like, as well as see about selling my current ring (to help fund the next one). I've spoken with 6 or 7 different private jewelers, all of which have said the most they would give me for the current ring is around $1800. Each has also said they certainly don't think the stone is graded correctly. It has been highly suggested to me that I have the stone graded by GIA (there is a lab local to me) to validate the true grade of the stone. If it is at all off from the grading I was given by GSI, I've been encouraged to approach Weisfield about returning the ring I bought and getting all of my money back, as well as compensation for the ring I traded in, and if they are not willing to cooperate, I should sue. I understand they can sell a ring for more than its worth, but they can't sell me a ring (stone) that isn't the grade they're selling it as...right?

As you would imagine, I've been totally blown away, considering the price I paid for what I thought was a decent stone. I knew I wasn't buying the best of the best, but I feel like I have been totally screwed. At this point, I just want to get rid of the ring - it is completely tainted to me. Do you think I'll have a shot at getting my money back if the ring comes back from GIA graded differently from the current GSI grading? If Weisfield doesn't try to rectify the situation, is it appropriate to sue? I don't want this to be difficult and I don't want to go the legal route, but I will if I have to.

I am not an expert on the legal aspects, but I think that you do not have grounds to sue. You can ask for a refund, but I am not sure how that will turn out.

See, the lab reports are all just opinions. You bought a diamond with a GSI report (whatever that is) and the grading is the opinion of GSI.

How can you sue over a difference of opinion? You can't.

If the diamond was sold as a D VS2 by GSI and you found out it was actually a GSI graded stone of E I1, then you could sue. That is not a difference of opinion but a flat out misrepresentation.

But you cannot buy a diamond without a GIA report, then send it to GIA, and say that the original seller misled you when the GIA report is different than the specs represented by the seller. Because the seller did not present the diamond as a GIA graded stone!

And this is why we encourage consumers to always buy GIA/AGS graded diamonds. Its the best opinion you will get and trumps any other opinion.

But with any other report, I am sorry to say there is no recourse Or no easy recourse anyways.

 

[csand13]

Ultimately, taking $1800 for the ring is not an option in my mind. I've listed it to sell privately, but my goal at this point is to wash my hands of it quickly - and again, in a way that hurts me the least financially. I'd rather swallow a little pride and walk away with a better stone from Kay/Weisfield/other than spend more money dumping the ring I have now.

Any opinions on Tolkowsky stones?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Also, the best stones Kay/Weisfield offer are the Tolkowsky ideal cuts (for those who don't know, Kay and Weisfield are the same company). Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that these stones don't sparkle like other ideal cuts, say from Ben Bridge (just an example). Any knowledge about Tolkowsky stones?

Any diamond graded by GIA or AGS with a GIA Excellent or AGS 0 cut grade will be a very nicely cut stone. The Tolkowsky brand are very well cut. You don't need a branded diamond if you don't want to pay the premium. I do think your best way out at this point is the trade in -- the get biggest GIA or AGS graded stone they will offer in an Excellent or 0 cut grade, perhaps look for a J-K color SI1 or si2 and look for one that is acceptable eye clean. A diamond like I describe will be much nicer than the one you have!

 

[csand13]

I agree. Although cut is the biggest factor, I don't want to go lower than a G in color and VS2 clarity, maybe SI1 in a 1 carat. I'm sure I can find a stone of that quality with 12,000 to play with.

 

[bobamaniac]

Seeing that the best option right now is that you can trade it in, then do so. Unfortunately, you're stuck with spending 2x as much now. I would go into the store calmly and explain your concerns. Then say you want to work with them and are willing to get another diamond for the upgrade process/policy. The only caveat is that you are only buying GIA or AGS diamonds. If they do not have them, have them call it in from sister stores or even be willing to buy a diamond (that they have and are confident in) and have them send it to GIA/AGS to be certified. If it comes in at the Grade/Clarity that their lab report says, then you pay the cost of the lab report. If not, then they eat it. Emphasize your disappoint and that you're being reasonable plus that in the end you are buying something that is double what you originally intended.

Hope that works and see what they have to say.

 

[Christina...]

Ultimately, taking $1800 for the ring is not an option in my mind. I've listed it to sell privately, but my goal at this point is to wash my hands of it quickly - and again, in a way that hurts me the least financially. I'd rather swallow a little pride and walk away with a better stone from Kay/Weisfield/other than spend more money dumping the ring I have now.

Any opinions on Tolkowsky stones?

I completely understand your feelings. I'm thinking though, that you are likely going to overspend by trading up with them again. For instance Jared and James Allen (a trusted online vendor) offer some of the same diamond inventory. This particular stone is offered by both of them and drastically different prices...for the exact same stone!

http://design.jared-diamonds.com/diamonds/diamond/diam87379/ Jared...$17000.00

http://www.jamesallen.com/#!/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.52-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-87379 James Allen $14410.00 plus they offer an additional discount for being a PS member.

 

[csand13]

I'm aware I'll overspend, but with a store credit of double what I'll end up paying, the blow will be cushioned. Especially since I won't be taking a hit on the ring I have now - I owe more than what a private jeweler will pay. Trading up at the Kay group will eat my current debt on the ring too.

James Allen was my first choice otherwise.

Believe me, this isn't the route I would choose otherwise.

 

[kenny]

Thanks for the info. Not what I wanted to hear, but I appreciate it.

At this point, I want to walk away from the situation the least screwed as I can.

Since I don't have a leg to stand on from a legal perspective, and I can't sell the stone for even enough to pay my debt on it, I do have the option of trading it in to Weisfield, and at least leaving with a better stone. While I certainly don't want to support their business, I don't want to end up stuck with this stone. I can trade in the ring for up to 6500 (I can negotiate a lower value if I want), and would then have to spend double whatever the value I trade in. I'll only spend half of the new cost. Thoughts?

Also, the best stones Kay/Weisfield offer are the Tolkowsky ideal cuts (for those who don't know, Kay and Weisfield are the same company). Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that these stones don't sparkle like other ideal cuts, say from Ben Bridge (just an example). Any knowledge about Tolkowsky stones?

So after getting ripped off on one stone and you want to get ripped off on a more expensive stone from the same poor vendor?

Even if they find you a GIA or AGS graded stone it will probably not have the good cut you learned about when you read the Advanced Tutoria.
Plus it will cost MUCH more than if you bought it from a PS vendor like Whiteflash, Goodoldgold, or James Allen.

Trade up policies can suck.
You think you are getting more for your trade in but may be paying more for the new stone than you'd pay at a good online vendor.
Plus the amount you overpay may exceed the amount you are trying to not lose by trading in the old stone.

Just look at all your options and do the math.
But please learn about good cut.
Cut influences the beautiful light show diamond is capable of more than color or clarity.

 

[AprilBaby]

If you are going to trade, go to the Jared division rather than the Westfield division. I would also write the president of sterling directly and tell him you feel tipped off. Don't even mention legal action or they shut you right down. Tell then you are going to contact BBB if you don't get any satisfaction. You will get called by the regional manager and they may offer to let you get something for less than the double. It worked for me with a misrepresented pendant. But trust me, as soon as you even mention a lawyer they cut you off.

 

[Christina...]

Here is some info on TIC, with links to other interesting reading.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond

Once you begin the upgrade process you can post info on any diamond you are considering here and posters will be happy to help you evaluate the stone before you purchase. Good luck to you!!

 

[csand13]

Kenny, my goal is to end up the least amount of ripped off as possible. I'm stuck between a rock and, well, a crappy diamond.

I've done my diamond research, which prompted me to start looking for something new in the first place. Like I said, selling the stone was my first choice (but I just CAN'T take what I'll get paid), trying to have the company rectify they situation was/is my second choice, and trading in/up is my 3rd. #1 isn't going to work. I'm hoping that a combination of options 2 and 3 will at least leave me with a nice stone and a reasonable amount of debt to accompany it.

Thank you everyone for your input!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The math is simple.

A) Find out what they will charge you for your upgrade at the current vendor, minus your trade = out of pocket cost.

B) Look what the out of pocket cost will buy from James Allen.

If A is a bigger or better or more desirable diamond than B, then stick with A.

If B is a bigger or better option or you want to ever upgrade again, then B is the better option.

 

[csand13]

The math is simple.

A) Find out what they will charge you for your upgrade at the current vendor, minus your trade = out of pocket cost.

B) Look what the out of pocket cost will buy from James Allen.

If A is a bigger or better or more desirable diamond than B, then stick with A.

If B is a bigger or better option or you want to ever upgrade again, then B is the better option.

Right.

 

[csand13]

If you are going to trade, go to the Jared division rather than the Westfield division. I would also write the president of sterling directly and tell him you feel tipped off. Don't even mention legal action or they shut you right down. Tell then you are going to contact BBB if you don't get any satisfaction. You will get called by the regional manager and they may offer to let you get something for less than the double. It worked for me with a misrepresented pendant. But trust me, as soon as you even mention a lawyer they cut you off.

Thank you for the input - especially the legal info. I'm glad they worked with you, did you end up being satisfied with whatever they offered?

 

[TC1987]

This might not be an option, depending on what type your stone's I1 inclusion is, and where it is located in the stone. But, Brian Gavin recuts diamonds at a rough cost of $350 or so per carat. You might contact him about whether or not the performance can be improved. Not all diamonds are candidates because their inclusions might result in structural problems that make it unsuitable to recut. A fantastic cut washes the face-up color. You might still see it from the side, but if it's not bothering you now, it certainly won't bother you after a recut.

 

[csand13]

This might not be an option, depending on what type your stone's I1 inclusion is, and where it is located in the stone. But, Brian Gavin recuts diamonds at a rough cost of $350 or so per carat. You might contact him about whether or not the performance can be improved. Not all diamonds are candidates because their inclusions might result in structural problems that make it unsuitable to recut. A fantastic cut washes the face-up color. You might still see it from the side, but if it's not bothering you now, it certainly won't bother you after a recut.

This had crossed my mind, but I did a little reading that didn't convince me. I might revisit the idea, or at least ask! Thank you for the info!

 

[oldminer]

Seems to me that every lab which uses a color grading scale of D to Z should either have to clearly state how their own grading relates to GIA's grading structure or in what way their identical scale varies from the GIA system. This would prevent fraudulent misrepresentation by so many retailers who say "all lab reports are the same" when clearly, they are not all the same.
The same rules ought to apply to clarity grading, as well. These lousy labs won't represent how they compare to GIA, but guys like me know what has been going on for years. This is one of the main reasons I found Pricescope to be a place that I really wanted to foster and participate in. I do believe we are headed in the right direction.

If a lab uses a nomenclature system for color and clarity identical to GIA, but not actually graded the same as GIA, then there would be a basis for someone to sue the heck out of them. Class action sounds like a scary possibility. It is a costly thing to bring a suit and on an individual basis most consumers are far better served by educating themselves BEFORE their purchase. Virtually everyone reading this already knows this is what must happen.

As far as getting the government involved in straightening out this mess, that is the very last thing we ought to want. The government does not do a good job at regulating small business and the oppressive nature of regulators is a killer of the economy. Have any of you ever had the EPA or OSHA come for a visit. You would not wish it on your enemy, let alone a decent small business person. Given access to information, looking to educate oneself, and keeping the capitalisitic model works best for most everyone. The cream rises, just as the best and most honest vendors are respected here by our community. The rotten vendors may do very well for a time, but the game will end eventually and many of these crooks will be gone. That is the essence of free competition. I want to see less regulation by the government when possible, and more citizens prepared better to take care of themselves. The safety net provided by government does not need to cover buying a diamond. Caveat Emptor is a good and historic principal that still works once you know how to educate yourself and shop properly.

 

[csand13]

Seems to me that every lab which uses a color grading scale of D to Z should either have to clearly state how their own grading relates to GIA's grading structure or in what way their identical scale varies from the GIA system. This would prevent fraudulent misrepresentation by so many retailers who say "all lab reports are the same" when clearly, they are not all the same.
The same rules ought to apply to clarity grading, as well. These lousy labs won't represent how they compare to GIA, but guys like me know what has been going on for years. This is one of the main reasons I found Pricescope to be a place that I really wanted to foster and participate in. I do believe we are headed in the right direction.

If a lab uses a nomenclature system for color and clarity identical to GIA, but not actually graded the same as GIA, then there would be a basis for someone to sue the heck out of them. Class action sounds like a scary possibility. It is a costly thing to bring a suit and on an individual basis most consumers are far better served by educating themselves BEFORE their purchase. Virtually everyone reading this already knows this is what must happen.

As far as getting the government involved in straightening out this mess, that is the very last thing we ought to want. The government does not do a good job at regulating small business and the oppressive nature of regulators is a killer of the economy. Have any of you ever had the EPA or OSHA come for a visit. You would not wish it on your enemy, let alone a decent small business person. Given access to information, looking to educate oneself, and keeping the capitalisitic model works best for most everyone. The cream rises, just as the best and most honest vendors are respected here by our community. The rotten vendors may do very well for a time, but the game will end eventually and many of these crooks will be gone. That is the essence of free competition. I want to see less regulation by the government when possible, and more citizens prepared better to take care of themselves. The safety net provided by government does not need to cover buying a diamond. Caveat Emptor is a good and historic principal that still works once you know how to educate yourself and shop properly.

Wouldn't it be nice if we all educated ourselves fully before purchasing anything? Even more so if we could have faith that we are purchasing items from a salesperson who will help fill in knowledge for us and be honest about the product they are selling - not just in the world of diamonds!
By involving the government by suing this company, my goal would be to rectify my situation, and serve as a lesson to the company so that others may be spared my same experience. My goal is not to begin any legal reform to the jewelry world.

 

[distracts]

Especially since I won't be taking a hit on the ring I have now - I owe more than what a private jeweler will pay.

It is really not a good idea to go into debt for luxury goods. You should not be considering taking on more debt to get yourself out of this diamond. Since you already owe quite a bit, it seems, I would complain to the store about the misrepresented quality and see if they will let you do a trade-in for less than double the price, then try to pick a 1.5 H/I Si2 excellent cut stone, which will set you back several thousand further but hopefully not TOO badly (and be sure to price-check stones with similar stats online, and bargain the price down to that level), and since you're planning on the upgrade maybe you already have that. Then pay it down as aggressively as possible.