Huge price range on 2 ct

[jyeh74]

I'm searching bluenile and b2c and other various websites and need help.

Looking for 2 carat round diamond. D-e-f color (colorless) and at least vs2 clarity with good to great cut. Price ranges from $20k to $100k. Seems like minimal difference, but huge in price. Seems like clarity, can make the biggest difference. Going from a 2 carat, vs2, e color, and good cut= $24k to a 2 carat, vvs1 clarity, e color, and very good cut = $61k . Really? $40k more just for better clarity? Call me crazy, but this is ridiculous, as long as you can't see the imperfections with the naked eye, I think vs2 or vs1 is good enough. This is on a 3.75 size ring. Small fingers so not sure if 2-2.5 would be overkill.

Ideally, do people go full carats? 3 would be great, but way too expensive. i.e. 2.5 carat is common? Thoughts and feedback welcome.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Huge price range

Smart shoppers do not go for full carats or full half carats. They go just under. So 2.4 or 2.8 or 1.4 or 1.8. You don't need VVS in a RB. You don't even really need VS. And eyeclean SI is great for most people and people who prefer VS stones are people who just prefer that clarity mentally not visually.

You also don't need E color. F-G is more than sufficient for the large majority people. And H is great for a lot of people as well.

What you do need is excellent or ideal cut. VG cut or G cut are not sufficient really. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut Read that.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Re: Huge price range

Stick with GIA excellent or AGS Ideal cut only, and F VS2 unless you have a really huge budget! We can try to show you a few good prospects if you'd like. Cut is the number one factor related to the beauty and performance of the stone, and most of us here would much rather have a G color ideal cut diamond over a D color, good cut stone.

 

[jyeh74]

Thanks for the quick replies.
So originally, I thought color was the most important for the buck since its what causes the shine or color?
But it sounds like having an excellent (not very good??) cut is most important, then a E or F maybe G color is second, then clarity ?

I was searching 3 carats round diamonds (GIA certified), but nothing comes under $80k........

 

[Gypsy]

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.304-g-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104052883018 This one is lovely.

Yes.

CUT QUALITY. Is what gives the diamond it's sparkle and everything else. And ideal H will look whiter than a poorly cut F because the light return masks the color on the H and the F will be dead and dark.
COLOR H and above is fine for most people.
CLARITY. SI1 and eyeclean is fine for most people.

 

[jyeh74]

anyone know direct wholesalers in southern CA? I'm wondering if they are a lot cheaper than retailers?

 

[jyeh74]

Re: Huge price range

Smart shoppers do not go for full carats or full half carats. They go just under. So 2.4 or 2.8 or 1.4 or 1.8. You don't need VVS in a RB. You don't even really need VS. And eyeclean SI is great for most people and people who prefer VS stones are people who just prefer that clarity mentally not visually.

You also don't need E color. F-G is more than sufficient for the large majority people. And H is great for a lot of people as well.

What you do need is excellent or ideal cut. VG cut or G cut are not sufficient really. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut Read that.

Why do you say smart shoppers do not go up 0.5 or 1 carat? Is it much proportionately cheaper to go with a 2.6 as opposed to a 2.5? Or a 2.9 vs a 3?

Also, anyone know if Costco is reliable?
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11709978&whse=BC&Ne=5000008+4000000&eCat=BC|108&N=4042233
Item # 604587
$53,999

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11680096&whse=BC&Ne=5000008+4000000&eCat=BC|108&N=4042233
Item # 609895
$82,799

The color can't be the difference of $30,000 can it? Similar size (3 ct), similar clarity (vs2) just the G color vs I color attributes to $30,000 price increase?

 

[Gypsy]

anyone know direct wholesalers in southern CA? I'm wondering if they are a lot cheaper than retailers?

No. They aren't cheaper. Wholesalers that sell to the public are really retailers hoping to take advantage of ignorant buyers. Period. We have a TON of So Cal members and not ONE of them has bought their stone in CA. They either shop in NY at IDJ, GOG, ERD or JA or they shop in TX at WF and BGD. That's it. And the reason is-- you won't find a better deal than what a these vendors can get you.

GIA EX/EX will be cheaper than an AGS0. Call the PS vendor you want to work with and ask them for an G VS2 round brilliant, with a great idealscope image (you will need to work with a vendor that can provide you with an idealscope image). Tell them you don't need a true hearts and arrows stone. And tell them your budget and that you want the largest stone for your budget they can find.

The major price jumps are at the full carat and half carat mark.

A 2.4 carat diamond will be cheaper per carat than a 2.5 carat diamond. But if those sizes you won't really notice the difference in terms of diameter. And you should shop by diameter not carat weight. Although wtih Round brilliants you do not want an overly shallow stone so too much diameter for the carat wieght is not good (but with a GIA Ex/Ex that has great light return or an AGS0 stone you won't have a problem with stones that are too shallow, they will be weeded out).


Start another post and ask for So Cal PSers and poll them on where they bought their diamonds. It will be enlightening for you.

 

[Enerchi]

jyeh - what "trade" do you represent? Just curious....

 

[webdiva]

Shop out of state from a reputable Pricescope approved vendor and save the tax! I live in LA and purchased a diamond based on the very detailed pictures and videos provided. They shipped me the diamond, with a 30 day full refund policy. I loved it - shipped it back for $30 and got it set into a ring! Easy peasy!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi jyeh,
Welcome to PS!

Here's something I find most interesting.
Beside huge differences between VS2 compared to VVS1 how about doing a search on any website that has a searchable database for a common set of specs.
1.00-1.01
G SI1
You'll get tons of results- now sort by price and notice how big a difference in prices- once you filter out all the non GIA graded stones, the spread gets smaller- but it's still very wide.

There's a lot of reasons for this- but much has to do with cut.

In that regard, educating your eyes is very important. Some buyers want the very best cut, while others will find value in a larger stone with less of a "cut pedigree" - a "regular" GIA EX cut grade is fine for them- allowing more budget to go into size. Or back into the pocket

If you want to very best cut, by all means get ASET/IS and use the HCA.
If you've looked and prefer stones that are not "super ideal", throw away the above mentioned tools, and use your eyes.

Neither way is "right"- this is abut preference.
To use an analogy from John Pollard- if you can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle of wine and a $50 bottle, the $5 one makes a lot of sense.

I agree with Gypsy about sellers advertising themselves as "wholesalers"- they are using false advertising by it's very nature.
Wholesale sellers do not advertise to a retail audience.
The internet has changed the entire structure- allowing companies that were formerly wholesale only to sell to the retail public- but most often this model does not include a walk in store.

In terms of buying below a carat size mark- like looking for a 1.45 to save the additional price hike of the 1.50's may leave such a limited pool of candidates so as to be ineffective- but by all means look!
Once we go above 2.00cts there's no half carat price hike on the list, so there's a less dramatic effect on price, and supply in larger sizes. Also many stones in the highest weight ranges- like a 1.90ct- will be priced very close to a 2ct
in

 

[Gypsy]

Once we go above 2.00cts there's no half carat price hike on the list, so there's a less dramatic effect on price, and supply in larger sizes.

I did not know that. Thank you RD. I learned something from you today.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Many of us originally came here like you when shopping for diamonds. Most of us learned about the importance of cut when we came here. You can see that some of us have been here a long time because it has become a hobby!

We can tell you reliable vendors to buy excellent stones from. In the order I have made purchases, I have bought diamonds from Good Old Gold, WhiteFlash, and Brian Gavin (actually he recut an old diamond for me). I recommend these especially because they all specialize in ideal cut rounds.

Here are a few stones to look at beginning with G and then some F's:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8175/

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2696789.htm

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/Diamonds/diamond-details/2.304-G-VS2-round-Diamond-AGS-104052883018

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2782676.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2631634.htm

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.185-f-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104045251001

You can even see that restricting the range to 2.0-2.3 cts and F-G, VS1-VS2 clarity, all top ideal cut stones, the price still ranges from $36k to $60k!

 

[Gypsy]

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1384437.asp On the off chance this one is eyeclean, it's a steal. H color AGS0 if the inclusions are not visible to the unaided eye... worth a call.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1442316.asp Much cleaner for only 7k more and one color grade higher. This one wins for me in the 26k and under group.

If you want three carats this one is a good prospect: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1271835.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1421127.asp Nice deal. 8.5mm 37k. Get an idealscope image. Scores well on the HCA. I have to say, this one would be my choice if the idealscope checks out.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

What exactly is your budget? Because there is a huge price range of stones already posted and we have no idea what you are planning to spend!

 

[Gypsy]

What exactly is your budget? Because there is a huge price range of stones already posted and we have no idea what you are planning to spend!

LMAO. We should have asked this first right? Good call DS.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

What exactly is your budget? Because there is a huge price range of stones already posted and we have no idea what you are planning to spend!

LMAO. We should have asked this first right? Good call DS.

I know...before we waste any more time looking at the wrong things!

 

[kenny]

I live in So California and over the years have bought maybe 30 diamonds.
NONE of them were bought from anyone anywhere in California.

I've have bought from and recommend:

http://www.whiteflash.com
http://www.goodoldgold.com
http://www.jamesallen.com
http://www.fancydiamonds.net
http://www.bluenile is reputable but refuses to offer Idealscope pics.

I have not bought from, but would also trust http://www.briangavindiamonds.com and http://www.infinitydiamonds.be/

Wholesale sells only to the trade.
If someone tells you they are a wholesaler and will sell you a diamond they are a liar.
What other lies might they be telling you?

BTW only consider diamonds graded by GIA or AGS.
EGL-graded diamonds SEEM cheaper until you learn that their color and clarity grades are a few grades "generous".
GIA/AGS graded diamonds are NOT more expensive they are just graded accurately.
Shocking but true.

 

[Gypsy]

What exactly is your budget? Because there is a huge price range of stones already posted and we have no idea what you are planning to spend!

LMAO. We should have asked this first right? Good call DS.

I know...before we waste any more time looking at the wrong things!

**snicker**

 

[Rockdiamond]

Once we go above 2.00cts there's no half carat price hike on the list, so there's a less dramatic effect on price, and supply in larger sizes.

I did not know that. Thank you RD. I learned something from you today.

Thank you Gypsy!

I have learned a tremendous amount from many of the Pricescope members- including you

 

[Gypsy]

Once we go above 2.00cts there's no half carat price hike on the list, so there's a less dramatic effect on price, and supply in larger sizes.

I did not know that. Thank you RD. I learned something from you today.

Thank you Gypsy!

I have learned a tremendous amount from many of the Pricescope members- including you

Thank you RD. I really appreciate that.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Maybe an old dog can learn new tricks....??

(Obviously I'm the old dog as you are clearly feline

 

[Gypsy]

Maybe an old dog can learn new tricks....??

(Obviously I'm the old dog as you are clearly feline

And apparently cats CAN be trained.

 

[jyeh74]

Hi everyone,

I was told GIA vs EGL and to go with GIA since it is the most stringent and best. Sorry, I haven't done my research on AGS. How does that compare to GIA?

I was originally looking at 2 ct but now wondering if 3 ct would fit my price range. I am trying to stay around $40k for a 3 carat. Is that even possible?
The Costco one I have above at $53k was the lowest I found. That is a 3.2ct, VS2 and I color with excellent cut (GIA)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi everyone,

I was told GIA vs EGL and to go with GIA since it is the most stringent and best. Sorry, I haven't done my research on AGS. How does that compare to GIA?

I was originally looking at 2 ct but now wondering if 3 ct would fit my price range. I am trying to stay around $40k for a 3 carat. Is that even possible?
The Costco one I have above at $53k was the lowest I found. That is a 3.2ct, VS2 and I color with excellent cut (GIA)

GIA is the most common reputable lab, and AGS is also a reputable lab but it simply grades fewer stones. Both GIA Excellent cut and AGS Ideal cut are worth considering, and no others, really.

No, you'd have to go really low in color and clarity to get a 3 ct. stone for $40k. Please don't. If you want F-H color and VS or even SI1 clarity, you will be looking in the 2 ct. range. Please see the stones we posted for you above.

 

[jyeh74]

From the links, it looks like most of the 2 cts are $40-50k.

What are your thoughts about this one?

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11709978&whse=BC&Ne=5000008+4000000&eCat=BC%7C108&N=4042233

Seems decent. I would only say the I color bugs me. But the size (3.2 ct), cut (GIA excellent) and clarity (vs2) isnt bad for $53k
I think a F or G or H color would be better. Thoughts? I could spend more for a 3 carat if its not above $60k (since you've told me that a 3 ct for $40k is not going to happen, unless its a very bad diamond). I've seen some go up to $200k.

 

[jyeh74]

Hi jyeh,
Welcome to PS!

Here's something I find most interesting.
Beside huge differences between VS2 compared to VVS1 how about doing a search on any website that has a searchable database for a common set of specs.
1.00-1.01
G SI1
You'll get tons of results- now sort by price and notice how big a difference in prices- once you filter out all the non GIA graded stones, the spread gets smaller- but it's still very wide.

There's a lot of reasons for this- but much has to do with cut.

In that regard, educating your eyes is very important. Some buyers want the very best cut, while others will find value in a larger stone with less of a "cut pedigree" - a "regular" GIA EX cut grade is fine for them- allowing more budget to go into size. Or back into the pocket

If you want to very best cut, by all means get ASET/IS and use the HCA.
If you've looked and prefer stones that are not "super ideal", throw away the above mentioned tools, and use your eyes.

Neither way is "right"- this is abut preference.
To use an analogy from John Pollard- if you can't tell the difference between a $5 bottle of wine and a $50 bottle, the $5 one makes a lot of sense.

I agree with Gypsy about sellers advertising themselves as "wholesalers"- they are using false advertising by it's very nature.
Wholesale sellers do not advertise to a retail audience.
The internet has changed the entire structure- allowing companies that were formerly wholesale only to sell to the retail public- but most often this model does not include a walk in store.

In terms of buying below a carat size mark- like looking for a 1.45 to save the additional price hike of the 1.50's may leave such a limited pool of candidates so as to be ineffective- but by all means look!
Once we go above 2.00cts there's no half carat price hike on the list, so there's a less dramatic effect on price, and supply in larger sizes. Also many stones in the highest weight ranges- like a 1.90ct- will be priced very close to a 2ct
in

Thanks for the welcome. I'm sorry, this is somewhat new. But I dont understand the "ASET/IS and use the HCA"

 

[diamondseeker2006]

From the links, it looks like most of the 2 cts are $40-50k.

What are your thoughts about this one?

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11709978&whse=BC&Ne=5000008+4000000&eCat=BC%7C108&N=4042233

Seems decent. I would only say the I color bugs me. But the size (3.2 ct), cut (GIA excellent) and clarity (vs2) isnt bad for $53k
I think a F or G or H color would be better. Thoughts? I could spend more for a 3 carat if its not above $60k (since you've told me that a 3 ct for $40k is not going to happen, unless its a very bad diamond). I've seen some go up to $200k.

Very honestly, I would MUCH rather have a G or H color 2 ct. stone than a 3 ct. I or J color stone with lower clarity. And since I think you mentioned your girlfriend has very small fingers, do you really think she would be disappointed with less than 3 cts? See, some people would rather have a J SI diamond that is 3 cts. but there are others who would rather have F-G VS+ at 2 cts. for the same kind of budget. You kind of have to make that choice. You'll find people who prefer both of those on this forum. But you need to think which would please her more. I think 3 cts would be huge on her finger and would only recommend this if 3 cts is expected in your social circle. And if that is an important factor, then think about whether higher color and clarity is also valued in that same social circle. There are many factors to consider. You have a large budget and hopefully will spend it wisely!

The HCA is a tool that you can use to narrow down the better GIA Excellent stones by putting in measurements:

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

You do not need to use the HCA on stones that have been graded AGS Ideal cut such as most of those posted above because AGS grades light return. GIA Excellent is a much broader category than AGS Ideal, so the HCA helps to identify the better GIA Excellent stones, although you still need the idealscope image.

If you look at the stones I posted above, you will see extra images posted and you can see that the idealscope (or diamonxray from Good Old Gold) shows how well cut the stone is and whether it has leakage or not.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2696789.htm

Click on the little pictures below the main photo and the third one is the idealscope image and the 4th one is the ASET image. WhiteFlash, Good Old Gold, and Brian Gavin all provide this information. I do not use the HCA on their stones.

 

[Gypsy]

PUT THIS ONE ON HOLD IMMEDIATELY:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Excellent-Cut-Round-Diamond-1444990.asp Seriously. Do not pass go. Just put it on hold. Have the gemologist look at it and tell you if it is eyeclean and if the flourecense has any bad effect (ask if it is milky in daylight). Gets a 1 on the HCA. Has a beautiful tiny table. It's a great potential stone. If it is eyeclean then get an Idealscope image of it to check it for light return.

If it IS eyeclean, then it is a fabulous deal. And you aren't going to find another like it. Seriously. I was shocked because I could find NOTHING else decent from 2.8-3plus in the 60 and under range.

 

[TitanCi]

Jyeh- I myself knew only a little more about diamond C's than you DID... I say "did" because you will know more because of THIS site. I've always known CUT was the top C to look over all else. Then for me, color, carat, and clarity.

However, relying on a report that says "excellent" is not enough. TRUST ME. I've spent countless hours and many a nights studying diamond pictures and reading too many articles to better inform myself. Why? Because these people make sense. Don't over pay for a diamond because some person in a store is telling you This is GIA Excellent blah blah blah without really backing anything up, and saying those numbers are "ok, those are just fine". And that's it.

I AM FROM SO CAL, I'VE DONE THE DIAMOND DISTRICT, I'VE DONE THE ASIAN GARDEN MALL. Dude... Trust me, they'll nickel and dime you. I thought going to the source was the sh!t! I thought going to the person that sells to the jewelers in the Asian Garden Mall was gonna save me a ton of money (it did, initially). I thought there is no WAY anyone else could give me the price they did, given the product I got (in reality though I got a great price for a stone with exceptional Color -F- and clarity -VS1); I thought I was the ish walking out of the place with a GIA Excellent and thought that was *the* deal of my life.

I was WRONG. I learned so much about that diamond and what to AVOID and look out for that I made a more educated purchase AND as an added bonus... I saved $3k for the stone! The stone I got is NO smaller than the one I had, nearly as colorless as the one I had (G vs F) but will perform better than the one I had in terms of light performance. I am picky by nature, and the fact the diamond I had had *some* light leakage and the negative optical effects I could actually see from my research, that I was NOT going to pay top dollar for a product I was gonna be stuck with.

The $3k I saved was going to be put into a larger stone, but the size difference is so minute it didn't justify the additional cost.

You should breathe a sigh of relief for finding this site. I did. I am now awaiting my new stone from an online purchase...all thanks to this site!