How would you feel about L to Z color if they were the rarest?

[kong]

I find it so amazing how quickly we equate rarity with beauty. If a canary diamond was as common as, say an L color, would anyone care about them? Would they be considered the ugliest of ugly duckling diamonds?

If colorless diamonds were suddenly being mined by the masses would the whiteness still be considered more pleasing to the eye? I know there are some who openly admit they prefer the warmer colors, but I''m curious how prevelant that aesthetic preferance would become if suddenly the warmer tones became the rare expensive ones.

I''m told it wasn''t until only 80 or so years ago that people put emphasis on color. Have we been brainwashed to believe that colorless is beautiful?

 

[Lynn B]

*I think* that some people will always want what is "most expensive" (thinking that must mean it is "the best")... no matter what.

And human nature being what it is

I think that will pretty much always remain true... even if/when what is "most expensive" changes.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think if you held out two ideal cut 2 ct. stones and one was D color and one was L, I am certain that I''d adore the icy white D regardless of the value or rarity. I agree with what Lynn said, but I do think there is an additional factor of perceived quality rather than just a desire to have what is most expensive. I wanted the whitest, best cut, best clarity diamond within my budget. I could have gotten a stone for half the price had I sacrificed color and clarity. On the other hand, I could have paid about 33% more and gotten a D color instead of H. But that was not worth it to me.

 

[kong]

Date: 7/22/2007 7:00:36 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I think if you held out two ideal cut 2 ct. stones and one was D color and one was L, I am certain that I''d adore the icy white D regardless of the value or rarity. I agree with what Lynn said, but I do think there is an additional factor of perceived quality rather than just a desire to have what is most expensive. I wanted the whitest, best cut, best clarity diamond within my budget. I could have gotten a stone for half the price had I sacrificed color and clarity. On the other hand, I could have paid about 33% more and gotten a D color instead of H. But that was not worth it to me.

I''m sure you would choose the icy white D diamond. I would too. But that could because we''ve been subconsciously trained to know colorless as best. I think the best way to test is to find and question people who have absolutely no knowledge or preconceptions about diamonds. Sort of like finding an untampered jury that has no prior knowledge of the case. Actually I''m sure that study has been done at some time or place. I''d be curious to know the results. The other test would be to look to a country that hasn''t been drowning in diamond advertising. Surely the US cares about these grades more than anywhere else.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, let''s compare drinking water that all costs about the same. Would you prefer perfectly clear, colorless water or water that had a slightly brownish tint to it?

I think perfectly colorless is synonymous with cleaness and purity regardless of prior knowledge.

 

[pyramid]

I can see your point kong.

Imagine if we had never seen diamonds and we saw a D and an L would we think the D was just like glass and the L was like a coloured gemstone (assuming we had seen them)? It is hard to think about it but I remember reading on a diamond forum, not this one, that lower warmer coloured diamonds were more rare but the diamond cartel hid all the colourless ones to make them more rare. However we hear now that there are no stockpiles so don't know if that could have been true.

 

[kong]

Date: 7/22/2007 7:17:32 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Okay, let''s compare drinking water that all costs about the same. Would you prefer perfectly clear, colorless water or water that had a slightly brownish tint to it?

I think perfectly colorless is synonymous with cleaness and purity regardless of prior knowledge.

Yes, I would choose the clear water. And if a glass of slightly discolored water and severely discolored water sat in front of me, I would choose the slightly discolored water. Does that mean an L diamond should be more pleasing (or less offensive) than a fancy? 100% pure cocoa is bitter and barely edible. However by adding impurities such as vanilla flavor, sugar, fat, and milk, it becomes something much more pleasing. I''m playing devil''s advocate to some extent. But I hear your point. It''s possible that in most things in nature, we inherently understand and seek out purity without the influence of others.

 

[sera]

I like both the white and the fancies... but I don''t typically like something in between. If I want a white diamond, I want the whitest I can get... I love the colored fire that comes out of a white diamond. If I were in the market for a yellow diamond, I would want it obviously yellow and not washed out. I love the color of a fancy yellow or pink radiant! Wish I could have one of each

 

[shminbabe]

Date: 7/22/2007 7:11:49 PM
Author: kong

Date: 7/22/2007 7:00:36 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I think if you held out two ideal cut 2 ct. stones and one was D color and one was L, I am certain that I''d adore the icy white D regardless of the value or rarity. I agree with what Lynn said, but I do think there is an additional factor of perceived quality rather than just a desire to have what is most expensive. I wanted the whitest, best cut, best clarity diamond within my budget. I could have gotten a stone for half the price had I sacrificed color and clarity. On the other hand, I could have paid about 33% more and gotten a D color instead of H. But that was not worth it to me.

I''m sure you would choose the icy white D diamond. I would too. But that could because we''ve been subconsciously trained to know colorless as best. I think the best way to test is to find and question people who have absolutely no knowledge or preconceptions about diamonds. Sort of like finding an untampered jury that has no prior knowledge of the case. Actually I''m sure that study has been done at some time or place. I''d be curious to know the results. The other test would be to look to a country that hasn''t been drowning in diamond advertising. Surely the US cares about these grades more than anywhere else.

This would be a great idea for a scientific study for someone''s doctoral dissertation!

jeannie

 

[kong]

Date: 7/22/2007 8:27:25 PM
Author: sera
I like both the white and the fancies... but I don''t typically like something in between. If I want a white diamond, I want the whitest I can get... I love the colored fire that comes out of a white diamond. If I were in the market for a yellow diamond, I would want it obviously yellow and not washed out. I love the color of a fancy yellow or pink radiant! Wish I could have one of each

Yep, I think I do too. I''m just trying to get to the bottom of why we prefer such specifics. Is it just a coincidence that the color (or lack of color) we most prefer happen to be the rarest and most expensive? Surely we don''t prefer stark white walls. Nor do most of us prefer deep fancy color (yellow) walls. We prefer a nice cream color that lies somewhere in between. Perhaps I''m comparing apples and oranges and making something out of nothing. Or perhaps we''re all influenced by rarity.

 

[Hest88]

Author: sera
I like both the white and the fancies... but I don't typically like something in between. If I want a white diamond, I want the whitest I can get... I love the colored fire that comes out of a white diamond. If I were in the market for a yellow diamond, I would want it obviously yellow and not washed out.

This is how I feel. I love the purity of an icy diamond--like the purity of new snow, and the vibrancy of a bright yellow diamond. Cream? Not so much.

Kong, I also don't think you draw an analogy between cream walls and diamonds; people like cream walls because they're soothing and make a nice neutral backdrop. However, people normally don't want diamonds that fade into the background!

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 7/22/2007 6:52:29 PM
Author: Lynn B
*I think* that some people will always want what is ''most expensive'' (thinking that must mean it is ''the best'')... no matter what.


And human nature being what it is

I think that will pretty much always remain true... even if/when what is ''most expensive'' changes.

I agree somewhat w/Lynn.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/22/2007 7:17:32 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Okay, let''s compare drinking water that all costs about the same. Would you prefer perfectly clear, colorless water or water that had a slightly brownish tint to it?

I think perfectly colorless is synonymous with cleaness and purity regardless of prior knowledge.

I cannot at all agree with this opinion. Clear liquid is just really bland lemonade!

 

[jayreneepea]

I kinda like the warmth of some of the lower colored diamonds, especially in antique settings and I''d actually kind of like to have a W, X, Y or Z rhr.

 

[Miranda]

Interesting. I actually prefer the look of L-Z stones to fancy intense colors. I love the soft yellow tone.

 

[risingsun]

I don''t care for the yellow tones, even in the fancies. Just another .02

 

[MichelleCarmen]

I''m sure we''ve been brainwashed to a certain extent, BUT, like Risingsun, I do not like yellow tones at all in stones, and regardless of what society deems as "beautiful," I wouldn''t be tempted to purchase a yellow diamond. I don''t even like yellow clothes, cars, etc. (but I DO like yellow flowers

) Generally, it''s just not a color I gravitate toward...BUT, on the otherhand, I LOVE red and orange stones and adore those shades of diamonds. Unlike colorless diamonds, I do believe red diamonds ARE extremely rare, so I''m pretty sure one in a size I''d like would be out of my price range. I think I saw a documentary where a small .50-.75 red stone went for $500K!

 

[Lorelei]

As a VERY happy L owner, I have to say after having one, I would do so again in a heartbeat! It doesn''t look in any way yellow and it faces up very white in some lights, in others it is a softer white which I find very attractive to my eyes. There is something rich and magical about it. As long as the cut is good, L is a very enjoyable grade to my eyes.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 7/23/2007 4:17:29 AM
Author: Lorelei
As a VERY happy L owner, I have to say after having one, I would do so again in a heartbeat! It doesn''t look in any way yellow and it faces up very white in some lights, in others it is a softer white which I find very attractive to my eyes. There is something rich and magical about it. As long as the cut is good, L is a very enjoyable grade to my eyes.

I would LOVE to see pics of your stone some day mam, unless there are already some on here. Are there?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/23/2007 6:35:40 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 7/23/2007 4:17:29 AM
Author: Lorelei
As a VERY happy L owner, I have to say after having one, I would do so again in a heartbeat! It doesn''t look in any way yellow and it faces up very white in some lights, in others it is a softer white which I find very attractive to my eyes. There is something rich and magical about it. As long as the cut is good, L is a very enjoyable grade to my eyes.

I would LOVE to see pics of your stone some day mam, unless there are already some on here. Are there?

No there aren''t any on here, I have some pitiful ones, but they aren''t very good....

 

[oldminer]

Food for thought.

The only reason we believe the colorless range are generally the rarest of the yellow series down to about R color is that DeBeers has created that impression by marketing and advertising. No one here truly knows what the rarest color, or lack of color diamond range is. We do know that D/E is more common in larger sizes than in smaller stones, but if you pick a particular weight range, very few folks who are in the business actually know which is the scarcest color and what order of actual product is possible in any color.

Imagine how simplisitc the marketing is. Colorless is the most rare and most costly. More tint costs less and is more common. It seems so nice, easy and logical on the surface. But, is it really true? I would think that at any given size versus another given size, the actual availability from nautre varies substantially. The essence of this is that you must buy what you like best. Much of the pricing strategy is hype although the real market is a free one and responds to all available information. We just have never had all the information anywhere in the market.

Please don''t get upset over this. Nothing changes what you like or don''t like and the market is free to price things according to all the forces at work in it.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 7/23/2007 7:12:29 AM
Author: oldminer
Food for thought.

The only reason we believe the colorless range are generally the rarest of the yellow series down to about R color is that DeBeers has created that impression by marketing and advertising. No one here truly knows what the rarest color, or lack of color diamond range is. We do know that D/E is more common in larger sizes than in smaller stones, but if you pick a particular weight range, very few folks who are in the business actually know which is the scarcest color and what order of actual product is possible in any color.

Imagine how simplisitc the marketing is. Colorless is the most rare and most costly. More tint costs less and is more common. It seems so nice, easy and logical on the surface. But, is it really true? I would think that at any given size versus another given size, the actual availability from nautre varies substantially. The essence of this is that you must buy what you like best. Much of the pricing strategy is hype although the real market is a free one and responds to all available information. We just have never had all the information anywhere in the market.

Please don''t get upset over this. Nothing changes what you like or don''t like and the market is free to price things according to all the forces at work in it.

Ooh conspiracy! Cool.

There''s no doubt that colorless=rare has been reinforced and reflected in D-Z pricing. It does make sense on a natural level. A diamond totally free of color would be composed entirely of carbon atoms. The presence of atoms other than carbon and/or distortions in the crystal lattice is what causes us to see color. Interestingly, the terms used by gemologists for these things are "impurities" and "structural defects," which can''t help but reinforce the perception that the presence of color is in some way inferior (when it really is not).

Once you get to the fancy range that notion swings around, especially in colors of uncommon hues. Anyone know what the rarest (according to the GIA)

fancy color is?

 

[jayreneepea]

Date: 7/23/2007 9:38:33 AM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/23/2007 7:12:29 AM
Author: oldminer
Food for thought.

The only reason we believe the colorless range are generally the rarest of the yellow series down to about R color is that DeBeers has created that impression by marketing and advertising. No one here truly knows what the rarest color, or lack of color diamond range is. We do know that D/E is more common in larger sizes than in smaller stones, but if you pick a particular weight range, very few folks who are in the business actually know which is the scarcest color and what order of actual product is possible in any color.

Imagine how simplisitc the marketing is. Colorless is the most rare and most costly. More tint costs less and is more common. It seems so nice, easy and logical on the surface. But, is it really true? I would think that at any given size versus another given size, the actual availability from nautre varies substantially. The essence of this is that you must buy what you like best. Much of the pricing strategy is hype although the real market is a free one and responds to all available information. We just have never had all the information anywhere in the market.

Please don''t get upset over this. Nothing changes what you like or don''t like and the market is free to price things according to all the forces at work in it.

Ooh conspiracy! Cool.

There''s no doubt that colorless=rare has been reinforced and reflected in D-Z pricing. It does make sense on a natural level. A diamond totally free of color would be composed entirely of carbon atoms. The presence of atoms other than carbon and/or distortions in the crystal lattice is what causes us to see color. Interestingly, the terms used by gemologists for these things are ''impurities'' and ''structural defects,'' which can''t help but reinforce the perception that the presence of color is in some way inferior (when it really is not).

Once you get to the fancy range that notion swings around, especially in colors of uncommon hues. Anyone know what the rarest (according to the GIA)

fancy color is?

Red??

 

[Lorelei]

Once you get to the fancy range that notion swings around, especially in colors of uncommon hues. Anyone know what the rarest (according to the GIA) fancy color is?
John

My vote is for green or blue.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Good answers but not quite there.

Green is more rare than yellow & brown. Blue is extremely rare.
Red diamonds are even more rare (and are most expensive) but not quite the most rare.

 

[FireGoddess]

Shows what I know.

LOL. I thought red was the rarest color diamond.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 7/23/2007 12:49:14 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
Good answers but not quite there.

Green is more rare than yellow & brown. Blue is extremely rare.
Red diamonds are even more rare (and are most expensive) but not quite the most rare.

You said orange a while back, whats funny is they are more available than reds and blues on the market.
Which leads me too think they are not horded as much as reds and blues and that r&g are more common than anyone thinks.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 7/23/2007 1:01:57 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/23/2007 12:49:14 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
Good answers but not quite there.

Green is more rare than yellow & brown. Blue is extremely rare.
Red diamonds are even more rare (and are most expensive) but not quite the most rare.

You said orange a while back, whats funny is they are more available than reds and blues on the market.
Which leads me too think they are not horded as much as reds and blues and that r&g are more common than anyone thinks.

Pure orange with no hint of brown is diamond's rarest color says GIA (conspiracy theories aside).

Most of the oranges you see will be mixed with another color. Pure orange (also called 'true orange') must start as a type 1B and then it must have color centers which mix together to produce the orange. They're so rare scientists still don't know definitively what causes their color. They say it is most likely a combo of chemical impurities & structural distortion.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/23/2007 7:12:29 AM
Author: oldminer
Food for thought.

The only reason we believe the colorless range are generally the rarest of the yellow series down to about R color is that DeBeers has created that impression by marketing and advertising. No one here truly knows what the rarest color, or lack of color diamond range is. We do know that D/E is more common in larger sizes than in smaller stones, but if you pick a particular weight range, very few folks who are in the business actually know which is the scarcest color and what order of actual product is possible in any color.

Imagine how simplisitc the marketing is. Colorless is the most rare and most costly. More tint costs less and is more common. It seems so nice, easy and logical on the surface. But, is it really true? I would think that at any given size versus another given size, the actual availability from nautre varies substantially. The essence of this is that you must buy what you like best. Much of the pricing strategy is hype although the real market is a free one and responds to all available information. We just have never had all the information anywhere in the market.

Please don''t get upset over this. Nothing changes what you like or don''t like and the market is free to price things according to all the forces at work in it.

I agree with all of this, I think the colorless-only myth is most encouraged this point by consumers. Almost not a day goes by when someone, quite often a novice here on this board, doesn''t make some comment to the effect that beauty means no yellow. I''ve never seen those who appreciate yellow complain about the lack of color.... I think those who appreciate color, while maybe having a favorite, see ALL of the shades as being beautiful, rather than only having no visible color being the ONLY beauty is a notion held by some.

I appreciate D but I also really love the shades LMNOP I prefer yellow that leans toward brown or orange over those that lean toward green unless the green saturation is high. Eversoslightlygreen is the only shade that makes me go..... pass!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/23/2007 1:26:12 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Date: 7/23/2007 1:01:57 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 7/23/2007 12:49:14 PM
Author: JohnQuixote
Good answers but not quite there.

Green is more rare than yellow & brown. Blue is extremely rare.
Red diamonds are even more rare (and are most expensive) but not quite the most rare.

You said orange a while back, whats funny is they are more available than reds and blues on the market.
Which leads me too think they are not horded as much as reds and blues and that r&g are more common than anyone thinks.

Pure orange with no hint of brown is diamond''s rarest color says GIA (conspiracy theories aside).

Most of the oranges you see will be mixed with another color. Pure orange (also called ''true orange'') must start as a type 1B and then it must have color centers which mix together to produce the orange. They''re so rare scientists still don''t know definitively what causes their color. They say it is most likely a combo of chemical impurities & structural distortion.

I think my colored diamond nirvana would involve a yellowish orange color.... somewhere between goldenrod and california poppy or maybe lighter in an apricot shade. But it would HAVE to be cut for fire and not for color retention. I think I would maybe just go over the 41 cliff though.... LOL! (::grins