how to find a big pretty green sapphire...

[bpilloud]

Hi all-
I''m new here, and I''m starting to source the stones for my engagement ring. I''d love to find a big pretty green sapphire for a ring, specifically a 3 to 5 carat that''s really well-cut (something that looks quite vibrant, not too concerned about the actual shape). I don''t know how to go about sourcing such a big stone.
Should I find a big native-cut stone and have it recut? How big does one have to go to get a good cut out of a sapphire? (I know, vague question).
I understand that green sapphires aren''t as popular as blue, but I''m not sure what a 3 to 5 ct. well-cut green sapphire would cost. I have a healthy budget for this ring, and I''m not looking for a "deal", instead, I want a knock-out rock that I won''t damage too easily.
Any ideas about how to go about finding this baby? Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

Date: 12/26/2005 11:36:12 AM
Author:bpilloud
Hi all-
I''m new here, and I''m starting to source the stones for my engagement ring. I''d love to find a big pretty green sapphire for a ring, specifically a 3 to 5 carat that''s really well-cut (something that looks quite vibrant, not too concerned about the actual shape). I don''t know how to go about sourcing such a big stone.
Should I find a big native-cut stone and have it recut? How big does one have to go to get a good cut out of a sapphire? (I know, vague question).
I understand that green sapphires aren''t as popular as blue, but I''m not sure what a 3 to 5 ct. well-cut green sapphire would cost. I have a healthy budget for this ring, and I''m not looking for a ''deal'', instead, I want a knock-out rock that I won''t damage too easily.
Any ideas about how to go about finding this baby? Your help is greatly appreciated.

It is the cut itself that renders life in a stone BP. How big the stone is will not matter, how well it is cut will. Green is not a real hot color, but for people who like green you can get a much more attractive price relative to the going market for ruby or blue and pink sapphire.

The green tint comes from the presence of iron (FE) in the crystal. Because of the presence of the iron, the stone has a higher indices than most other sapphires thus making green sapphire one the more dense gemstones.

I will start off by recommending a few vendors who come to mind and frequent the forum..

Wink Jones- www.winkjones.com
Garry Dutton aka (DiamondExpert)- www.duttonsdiamonds.com
Richard Wise - www.rwwise.com

Great Web sites Include:

Palagems- www.palagems.com
Richard Orbach - www.cherrypicked.com
Arnstein - www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com

Wink Jones, Garry Dutton, or Richard Wise (in no particular order) all have great trade experience in sourcing fine stones from all over the world. A healthy budget should get you a very nice 3-5 carat sapphire. Depending on quality you might be looking from 100''s of dollars per carat and up.

Good Luck...

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/26/2005 11:36:12 AM
Author:bpilloud

I'm new here, and I'm starting to source the stones for my engagement ring. I'd love to find a big pretty green sapphire for a ring, specifically a 3 to 5 carat that's really well-cut (something that looks quite vibrant, not too concerned about the actual shape).

It may take a while... There isn't much green sapphire with great color. At least as far as I can tell. OSmeone who deals with them should know allot better. Besides, even if these are rare - you only need one

As a side note, here's a couple that came up online without too much looking among the few shops I know anything about:


6 carat, Sri Lankan, Unheated and U481 from the same shop
Stock No. U42 at Walter Arnstein about 14 cts

There are two more (better?) but with less glamorous pictures at another company (link to source) who lists Australian Sapphire regularly - and deep green is a reputed color among Australian sapphire.

This is their largets fine green (and one of the more impressive I can thing of):

16 cts, untreated, GIA cert.

It has a little brother of perhaps 6 cts or so as far as I know. You may want to ask if the look is interesting.

I realize these are allot larger than you asked for... but I do not know of any dead on.

There are a few interesting ones between 2 and 3 cts on the first site. The nicest (by color), IMO may be this:

Well, everything said about pictures and keeping in mind that each of the sellers intends to make them look realistic. There is always quite a bit of approximation left.






I don't know how to go about sourcing such a big stone.

If nothing in stock either locally or online fits, you have to ask - most of the time jewelers would just deffer the inquiry to their suppliers and a few stones turn up for your inspection that way. Locally, it is quite clear what "inpection' means. Online there may be a retun policy that allows you to receive stones and return if not liked, or the goods could be shipped to a business partner of the seller located in your area - if there is one. As much as I can tell.



Should I find a big native-cut stone and have it recut? How big does one have to go to get a good cut out of a sapphire? (I know, vague question).

Yeah, it is vague... because this depends on the initial shape of the stone. There are lots of details that come to min - in theory: stone that are too shallow would result smaller in both diameter and weight from a recut, the ones that are too deep may keep the size and only loose weight... anyway, seeing is believing. With green sapphire, it may also happen that the color changes dramatically with a recut, if zoning or strong dichroism is involved (and often is for this color). Conclusion? Decide who will do the recut and ask their advice before the purchase if you intend to go this route. Just IMO...




I understand that green sapphires aren't as popular as blue, but I'm not sure what a 3 to 5 ct. well-cut green sapphire would cost.

The examples above and the several others on either website should give you some idea. Those seem reasonable quotes for me and there is a rather diverse list of options to go with.

My 2c. Hope some of this helps.

Just one more... are you looking for green sapphire instead of emerald because of durability? Then... for once it doesn't have to be the case that a ring should be worn 24/7 - an impresive piece would be significant and delightful even if it gets out of the drawer on less damaging ocasions. It depends on what the wearer's expectations are.

And another gem with better durability than emerald and better green color than green sapphire is Tsavorite - a vivid green grosssular garnet you must have heard about. At around 5 cts a fine one is rare and the strong bright colors are quite amazing. For brighteness it definitely wins against emerald, and... saphhires may not have meant to be green, counting very nice but also very few expections.


About Tsavorite... well, I would definitely not suggest Ebay (the snake pit by reputation etc.), but this one seller (LINK to Gem Line) just got lost there. Pretty obviously so considering the stock.

The green stone in the picture is 10 carat Tsavorite garnet. There can't be too many of the size and quality on offer anywhere! They also have a couple more of the same breed (the website must be under revision - you may want to drop a line about these other options) - including a round and a couple of 3- 5 carat fine stones. Rather unusual range of options. I wuldn't expect as much from most jewelry shops, unless they maintained special interest in this gem.

A few more (but not quite as dramatic) can be found on the list of another seller with an extensive stock in kind (LINK to Multicolor).


A very well known US shop - Pala International has recently put up a report about a light colored, exotic version of these garnets. They have some refference about the classic emerald-like colors (Pala's Tsavorite Buying Guide by Peter Bacroft and Richard Hughes). The site is generally very much worth a look.

The note about mint garnets is down this page with a remarkable 'poster kind'

Oh well... this is about all that comes to mind, short of a 'green gem synopsis'. Hope some helps

Emerald? hard to resist anyway. But not without challenge. If only many would look anything like THIS (large, bright, clean and untreated!).

I am definitely not an expert. Some of the sources cited amass reliable expertise.

My 2c

 

[Hest88]

I agree with Colored Gemstone Nut that contacting one of those three vendors would be ideal. Why go through an onerous search when they know better than we do what to look for?

I also think tsavorites would be good to look into. Here''s one of Pala''s:

3.02 carats of greeness

 

[movie zombie]

i agree with Hest..... be educated enough to discuss what it is you''re looking for and be prepared to see some gorgeous stones. you will pay a premium for stones from such venders but that premium has bought you their experience and ''eye'' for the best.

peace, movie zombie

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/26/2005 12:12:15 PM
Author: Colored Gemstone Nut

Depending on quality you might be looking from 100''s of dollars per carat and up.

That would be a tremendous bargain...

''wish I was wrong

 

[bpilloud]

Thanks! Wow! I''m really excited to see such beauties. Thanks for the expert recommendations, as well. I will definitely contact these folks. I am very happy to pay for their expertise.

In this day and age of "quantity" over "quality", and everybody trying to get "the best deal", it''s got to be really frustrating to be an expert jeweler and/or gemstone dealer. Maybe we''ll get back to a time when craftsmanship and quality are appreciated.

I love garnets, too, but I''m rough on my jewelry, and I really want to wear this ring every day.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/26/2005 3:33:58 PM
Author: bpilloud


I love garnets, too, but I''m rough on my jewelry, and I really want to wear this ring every day.

They''d be enduring enough. Well, no rings take the 24/7 brunt well - even diamonds. In the end, the size of the stone, the type of setting and the way you wear the ring will make allot of difference. Of all these greens, only emerald would be a problem and only if badly included. It may be worth reconsidering the hardness bit. It is more than that that accounts for how wearable a gem is, including brittleness that the Mohs scale says nothing about (i.e. diamonds are more brittle than these other things - and resistance to scratching balances).

Just a thought...

 

[movie zombie]

a garnet with a bezel type setting, or a partial bezel, can be enough protection for a garnet. wearing it doing housework and gardening [could be for a diamond also] would be too rough for it but wear it to work and enjoy! also, do not heat clean it if you go that way.....

i can personally vouch for richard wise as i bought my spessartite garnet [see my avatar] from him. he is is responsive both by phone and e-mail. he also has a book that is extremely helpful for those of us that are novice color [and diamond] gem stone buyers.

also, stones from pala gems will require you to be in touch with a jeweler. last year andy from Geoffrey''s in san mateo, california attended the tucson gem show and brought back a tourmaline from pala gems for me to preview that she thought i might be interested in. i also this month had my local jeweler contact pala re a spinel that caught my eye. any upscale jeweler should already be registered with pala gems.......the first question asked when my jeweler was if Gleim was registered and he didn''t know, but they looked and they were. not sure what is required to be ''registered'' but richard hughes that posts here will know. i am currently lusting over a citrine from pala and may have my jeweler also check that one out for me.

this could be a good time of year for your search. as i mentioned, the tucson gem show is coming up [in february] and if a jeweler that attends or a representative from one of the three is going and knows what you are lookiing for, they can keep an eye out for you. i believe this strategy has been used by other pricescopers.

btw, re your statement, ''In this day and age of "quantity" over "quality", and everybody trying to get "the best deal", it''s got to be really frustrating to be an expert jeweler and/or gemstone dealer. Maybe we''ll get back to a time when craftsmanship and quality are appreciated.'': i want you to know how much i agree with you. there is something for everyone in the world of color no matter the budget, but those upper end color stones are worth every $.

peace, movie zombie

 

[MJO]

Hello Ana,

Gemline sold that pair of Paraiba''s they had on their website to a well known and well respected Gemstone authority and author (can''t tell you which one but guess) Too bad they''re gone from the website. I loved looking at them. Anyway, I heard from Michael that they are getting in a 6.5ct Copper Bearing tourmaline from Brazil in a couple of days. He said he it was tested for copper and is coming from his Brazilian source. Lets see what this one looks like when he gets it.

BTW he also tells me he just picked up a 2.65ct teal colored Aussie Sapphire. He also hasn''t sent me a picture since it is still on the way from Austrailia. Can''t wait to see these.

Regards,
Maurice

 

[valeria101]

Date: 12/27/2005 11:03:45 AM
Author: MJO

Hello Ana,

Gemline [...] also tells me he just picked up a 2.65ct teal colored Aussie Sapphire. He also hasn''t sent me a picture since it is still on the way from Austrailia. Can''t wait to see these.

If they will be online, hard to believe I''d miss them. Looking forward to the update

 

[MJO]

Hello Ana,

I had Michael of Gemline forward me the picture he received of the Paraiba Pendent. It''s a 6.5ct stone. The pendent must be huge. This is a picture sent to him. He doesn''t have it in hand yet and will take more pictures when he gets it.

Regards,
Maurice