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oval_seeker

oval_seeker

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 12, 2017
Messages
30
Hi All,

Hoping for some help choosing between a couple oval stones (or suggestions for better options).

First option:
1.8ct H SI1
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-3141988

GIA 6252576962-ASET white-01.jpg


Second option: I don't have a video of this one right now but it has great sparkle, is eye clean and has no visible bow tie, though the ASET doesn't seem to look as good to me. It's a teeny tiny bit smaller than the H and about 1k more expensive.
1.7 F SI1
16105-ltsc-01.jpg
IMG_3111.JPG

Can anyone chime in with an opinion and/or help interpret these ASETs? We've read so much online but ultimately feel lost when it comes to comparing online and really making a choice.

This stone will be going in a yellow gold halo setting, so we think the H will be great, but if an F is in the budget (12k) should we be leaning towards that?

THANK YOU!
 
What you want to look for is when the diamond turns, the facets turns black and white, no obvious dead area. When you set in yellow gold and halo, the difference between H and F would be minimal since you the side view will be covered by melees. Have you asked if those two you picked are "eye-clean"? Both have fairly large inclusion on the table.

For diamonds of this size I would pick slightly higher clarity (i.e. VS2 or above). This one is very sparkly to my eye and well priced.I would pick this one because it has edge to edge sparkle and it appears to be a "high H color" It faces up more like a F than H.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.71-carat-h-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3168907
 
Last edited:
Welcome back, @oval_seeker!

The IDJ/JA diamond (1.8ct H SI1) is ok, but there are better ones out there. The GOG diamond (1.7ct F SI1) is impossible for us to evaluate based on the ASET alone. ASETs for ovals generally don't look great (i.e., most of them show a lot of white, which is associated with a phenomenon called "leakage" and is something that we are generally taught to avoid... although this rule may not apply for "crushed ice" type faceting). Thus, it is difficult to judge ovals based on ASETs. Looking at those you have posted, the most I would say is that the GOG diamond looks like it has "crushed ice" above and below the belly.

In your previous thread, I wrote a post (post #20) that explained the difference between broad/crisp virtual faceting and "crushed ice" type virtual faceting. As I mentioned then, "crushed ice" can be attractive, but it is impossible to distinguish between good and bad "crushed ice" unless you see the diamond in person. Since you've presumably visited GOG, have they explained crushed ice to you and shown you examples? Have you decided whether you like the crushed ice type of sparkle or not? Have you told them your preference?

GOG typically provides videos of their diamonds under different lighting conditions, but I'm guessing they didn't do that for you because you came to their showroom to see the diamonds in person? If you want our input, you should ask GOG to have Jonathan make one of his videos of the ovals you are considering from them. You can tell them that you need the videos because are getting advice from PriceScope.
 
@hifihua428 Thanks! The JA stone you posted is very nice but faces up quite a bit smaller than the others and shows as too deep as well, which is why we had eliminated it as an option. We are not fully against online shopping, just prefer to have a little bit more hand holding from a vendor!

@drk14 Here's the new GOG video -
The 1.7ct we are considering is in the middle. The one on the right is out of the budget and the left is a 1.6ct H SI1, GOG told us they like the 1.7 better (but hasn't told us why yet!)

And I think we've gotten great at detecting crushed ice and poorly cut diamonds when watching JA videos online but when it comes to evaluating it across different videos from different vendors in different lighting, it gets tough and we feel clueless again!
 
Can you clarify whether you are working with IDJ and GOG in person, or only remotely via internet/telephone? If you're working with trustworthy vendor (which both of these are), then there is some benefit to being able to view the diamonds in person. However, if all of your diamond evaluation is going to be via images and video, then you are better off (IMO) working with online vendors that have large inventory (e.g., JA or BN).

Also, for some reason, I was not able to hear any sound on the video you posted. Normally, the GOG videos are accompanied by a running commentary by Jonathan, in which he points out the differences between the stones. This is important, because some of the differences in performance don't show in the video, but he is able to see them in person.

Based on the video without Jonathan's commentary, it seems like all three of the ovals presented are of the "crushed ice" variety, albeit the "good" kind. The one on the right looks the sparkliest to me, while I thought the middle oval was not as sparkly as the others (at least in the areas above and below the belly). I don't know why Jonathan would prefer the one in the middle, perhaps he has some concerns about a bowtie effect or less fire (colored sparkles) in the 1.6ct?

See if you can get the sound added to the video.
 
drk14 said:
Can you clarify whether you are working with IDJ and GOG in person, or only remotely via internet/telephone? If you're working with trustworthy vendor (which both of these are), then there is some benefit to being able to view the diamonds in person. However, if all of your diamond evaluation is going to be via images and video, then you are better off (IMO) working with online vendors that have large inventory (e.g., JA or BN).

Also, for some reason, I was not able to hear any sound on the video you posted. Normally, the GOG videos are accompanied by a running commentary by Jonathan, in which he points out the differences between the stones. This is important, because some of the differences in performance don't show in the video, but he is able to see them in person.

Based on the video without Jonathan's commentary, it seems like all three of the ovals presented are of the "crushed ice" variety, albeit the "good" kind. The one on the right looks the sparkliest to me, while I thought the middle oval was not as sparkly as the others (at least in the areas above and below the belly). I don't know why Jonathan would prefer the one in the middle, perhaps he has some concerns about a bowtie effect or less fire (colored sparkles) in the 1.6ct?

See if you can get the sound added to the video.
Click to expand...

We have been working with them remotely. There is no sound on the GOG video which was also a disappointment to us and the "analysis" was basically just an email saying the stones are eye clean and providing the ASETs.

We weren't seeing a ton of great options on JA after our last post and reached out to IDJ and GOG based on glowing reviews here on PS in hopes of getting a little clarity and help from trusted vendors, but honestly we haven't been super thrilled with either vendor and aren't confident about their options, which is why I am back here. Now we are just feeling more stressed and confused! I think I had talked my FI out of using his family friend I mentioned in my earlier post, but now we are both thinking that may be worth a shot at this point.
 
oval_seeker said:
There is no sound on the GOG video which was also a disappointment to us and the "analysis" was basically just an email saying the stones are eye clean and providing the ASETs.
Click to expand...

Did you point this out to GOG (that there is no sound in the video)? It might just be a technical glitch that they can fix. Being able to hear the voiceover will make a huge difference in your confidence.

I think the diamond search in your previous thread stalled a bit in part because there happened to be an ebb in the availability of good ovals that met your specs, but mostly because it seemed that you were going to end up going with the "family friend" option instead of enlisting the help of PS members.

It seems your tastes have changed since then, as in the previous thread you were considering ovals with length of around 9mm and even a bit lower, but now you seem uncomfortable going lower than 9.5mm...

Assuming your budget has not increased, that means spreadier implies flatter, while flatter implies you are more likely to get into crushed ice territory. So it seems your preferences are now for a spready, crushed ice oval. In that case, you are probably best off either going with one of the GOG offerings, or shopping in person at B&M's (provided you heed to all of the caveats that come with that option).

Maybe you can start by clarifying what your preferences, priorities and budget look like right now.
 
drk14 said:
Did you point this out to GOG (that there is no sound in the video)? It might just be a technical glitch that they can fix. Being able to hear the voiceover will make a huge difference in your confidence.

I think the diamond search in your previous thread stalled a bit in part because there happened to be an ebb in the availability of good ovals that met your specs, but mostly because it seemed that you were going to end up going with the "family friend" option instead of enlisting the help of PS members.

It seems your tastes have changed since then, as in the previous thread you were considering ovals with length of around 9mm and even a bit lower, but now you seem uncomfortable going lower than 9.5mm...

Assuming your budget has not increased, that means spreadier implies flatter, while flatter implies you are more likely to get into crushed ice territory. So it seems your preferences are now for a spready, crushed ice oval. In that case, you are probably best off either going with one of the GOG offerings, or shopping in person at B&M's (provided you heed to all of the caveats that come with that option).

Maybe you can start by clarifying what your preferences, priorities and budget look like right now.
Click to expand...

You're right! We've definitely been enticed by being able to get a 1.7-1.8ct stone in our price range when we were previously thinking we'd be more in the 1.5-1.6ct range, admittedly we like the big spready numbers but also want the sparkle. We also are now ready to buy and last time we were more trying to figure out the best path of action to take.

For this stone we'd like to be under 12k and as much over 9mm as we can go without sacrificing too much sparkle, as close to a 1.4 ratio as we can get, probably not lower than an H. I did follow up with GoG and they believe there was a technical error that left the audio off, so that is coming with more analysis. Specifically, do you think Yekutiel's stone also has too much of the crushed ice effect? I guess I have also not seen a "pin fire" stone next to one of the variety you're describing so it's just so hard to tell what (and IF) we have a preference.

I'm not turning up a ton of great options online, but we would love to see some more suggestions if anyone has them. Our heads are really just spinning lately so we appreciate all the help we can get and realize we are totally all over the place. :(
 
oval_seeker said:
Specifically, do you think Yekutiel's stone also has too much of the crushed ice effect?
Click to expand...

It has more crushed ice than an oval that I would personally select when I search, but it does also have a few virtual facets of the larger variety strewn about in the region between the belly and the tips (some of these can be seen in the ASET as green or red polygons with distinct, non-blurry edges). I have no idea whether the crushed ice areas of this diamond (which dominate the off-belly regions) are of the attractive, "pinfire" variety. Furthermore, I don't have enough experience with Yekutiel to know whether he pays attention to faceting when it comes to ovals -- I have only seen one video analysis by him, and he was paying more attention to the oval's outline and clarity while barely mentioning light performance characteristics at all. In contrast, Jonathan at GOG has a long track record of prioritizing light performance when analyzing cut quality.

oval_seeker said:
we like the big spready numbers but also want the sparkle.
Click to expand...

If you can't get both spread and sparkle (in your budget), which is more important? Do you have any flexibility in the budget? If it turns out that your tastes are beyond what your budget can afford, sometimes a solution can be found on the second-hand market -- is this something you would be comfortable with?
 
In addition to answering the above questions, please clarify how you feel about clarity (pun intended).

Would you consider an SI2 (keeping in mind that the inclusions won't look nearly as prominent in real life as they do in the high-magnification images)? If so, you'll be able to go up in spread or to higher colors, or both. For example:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.83-carat-d-color-si2-clarity-sku-3029150
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/2.05-carat-g-color-si2-clarity-sku-3115644

These two aren't the very best SI2 options, but they should be passable in terms of sparkle. I didn't want to do an exhaustive search until I know more about what you want and don't want.
 
Updated GOG video with commentary is here, but pretty much echos what was said above and his favorite stone is pretty significantly outside of budget:

We also have the below stone available to us, although we have no pictures of it unmounted currently. It looks to have a more even distribution of some larger facets and is coming from a trusted source who really loves it. Any thoughts?
image1.JPG image1 (1).PNG

Regarding your other questions, we'd rather go down a touch in size than give up sparkle but don't hate pinfire sparkle either. Maybe a smidge of room in the budget for the perfect stone. SI2 is fine but really prefer it to be eye clean with no huge inclusions.
 
For 1.7ct+, 9mm+, H+, SI1+ at JA, this is the only possible contender with broad flashes at the tips (but you'd have to ask JA to check whether it is eye clean):

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.70-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-3230114

I haven't looked through JA's inventory lower than 1.7ct yet, there may be some additional choices there.

Finding an eye-clean SI2 is difficult, and finding an eye-clean SI2 that has large/crisp virtual facets is even more difficult. If I have time I will look, or maybe someone else will take on that challenge...

The second-hand oval you posted cannot be evaluated without video. I see no evidence of "even distribution of some larger facets" in the picture. The diamond does not have to be unmounted to make a video.
 
Is this helpful at all? It is also not secondhand. It just happens to be set currently.


I guess I mean i think it looks really beautiful when I can see it fully mounted. Is there anything specific I can look for as red flags? I really do appreciate your input as this is quite a major purchase and the more research we do, the more overwhelmed we become by trying to find the perfect balance of everything. :loopy:
 
@oval_seeker -- The mounted oval actually doesn't look bad from what I can see in the video, although the video is very low resolution, so it's hard to tell.

Of the Enchanted Diamonds ovals, the first is definitely a no-no, while I would call the second one a guarded "maybe". By the way, the ED videos are not that helpful, because the rotation is strictly around the long axis of the oval, which doesn't let you see the activity of the virtual facets located above and below the belly area. Yekutiel's video suffers from the same problem. If you have an opportunity to make any more videos (or have videos made for you), try to make sure that the oval is rotated (tilted) back and forth around the minor axis of the oval.
 
oval_seeker said:
I guess I mean i think it looks really beautiful when I can see it fully mounted. Is there anything specific I can look for as red flags?
Click to expand...

I've written up some tips on how to evaluate an oval diamond in person (assuming you have that ability):

Hold the diamond facing you, and then tilt it slightly (< 30 degrees) in all directions (alternately rotating about the minor and major axes of the oval). Is the sparkle significantly less in the regions above and below the midline ("belly" region) of the oval, or is the sparkle reasonably uniform across the entire diamond? Does the belly region have a dark band going across (a bowtie), that remains persistently dark as you move the oval around at different angles?

Jewelry showrooms are notorious for having lighting that makes even poorly cut diamonds look sparkly, so you can't necessarily believe your eyes if you are evaluating diamonds in such an environment. If the room has very tall ceilings (like a warehouse) so that the light sources are far away, then the diamond sparkle will be intensified (e.g., most diamonds look great in a big box store like Home Depot or Lowe's). Like wise, if there are many small light sources (e.g. track lights, spot lights, etc.) this will intensify sparkle. If any of these descriptions apply to the room in which you are viewing the diamond, then you will need to counteract the lighting. For example, if there are windows in the room, stand next to the window, so that the daylight from outside will be brighter than the room lights (however, avoid direct sunlight). If there are no windows, try to go to a corner of the room, and face the corner with your back to the room, so that your body shields most of the room light except for what bounces of the walls. Other tricks I've seen suggested are to cup your hand around the diamond to shield it, or to crawl under a desk to look at the diamond!
 
I found several potential contenders at BlueNile (hold down Ctrl key when clicking BN links):

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08677331
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08621199
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08834935
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD08331850

All but the 1.71ct have strong fluorescence, which is sometimes beneficial and sometimes detrimental. The 1.90ct is SI2, so would need to confirm whether eye-clean. Some of these have girdles on the thicker side, which means you get more carat weight but less spread (nonetheless, all of these are >9mm in length).
 
Thanks so much for all the advice! Really appreciate your input. It appears buyers agree with you as two of the stone listed above have already sold. Lots to look through and consider :twirl:
 
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