How the top 1% made its money

[D&T]

If you have a SS# and you get W-2s then it is all reported on an individual basis and will show up on the individual taxpayer category. If you have other Business entities and you are the owner of an “S” corporations , you will have a pass through income (or loss) from that business reported on an individual level.
No, the super rich do not report differently, they may have, investments, and/or businesses but again see pass through income on “S” corporations only explanation below:
A pass-through entity is a special business structure that is used to reduce the effects of double taxation; income is not taxed at the corporate level but at the individual level for owners.
With Pass through income if anyone is interested are broken down into two parts as Passive and Non Passive and yes still reported on an individual’s tax return:
“Income from passive activity is income from investment in a trade or business with no material participation, which includes most rental activities and limited partnerships.
Income from non-passive activity includes trade or business activity with material participation, including wages and self-employment income.”

All these are taxable and are reported o the IRS on an individual taxpayer category:
1. Wages and salaries
2. Interest received
3. Dividends
4. Business income
5. Capital gains and losses
6. Pensions and annuities
7. Lump-sum distributions
8. Rollovers from retirement plans
9. Rental income and expenses
10. Farming and fishing income
11. Earning for Clergy
12. Unemployment compensation
13. Gambling income and losses
14. Bartering income
15. Scholarship and Fellowship grants
16. Social Security and equivalent Railroad Retirement Benefits
17. 401(k) plans
18. Passive activities (losses and credits)
19. Stock options
20. Exchange of Policyholder Interest for stock
21. Canceled debt
22. Alimony and child support

After all these deductions, losses and credits your AGI is what the IRS government is talking about who makes what in % category that is referenced above (which is somewhat skewed due to the above points of taxable income/losses reported prior to coming to the AGI.
If you are talking about Assets in general yes it is on the business side, however financial statements produced from those businesses which encompass assets and liabilities are flowed through pass through income which then shows up as a number on the individual tax return again on “s” corporations.

Your assets in general for individual purpose will not obviously be included in your tax return unless your assets become income producing. Until you die of course then estate taxes comes into play.
Bill Gates gets paid as an employee from his corporation it is NOT an “S” corp so no pass through from that company will be on his individual return.

As for Warrant Buffet complaining about his tax being less than others… what he came out with an AGI of around 120mil? (don’t know the exact number but its up there)... at a 10% effective tax rate, well it’s not his fault that the same government put in place tax deductions tax shelters plan and his CPA and accountants understand how to utilize (I guess to capitalize) on those deductions/tax shelters and or losses. REmember that Warren Buffet also does good in the world by creating thousands of jobs. Trying to take down any industry is a disasterous move and putting more people at risk to add to the number of unemployment. The .001 0.01or 1% may employ thousands of those of you who are complaining.

Those griping about employees being paid exorbitant amount of income, well you could start investing in companies that actually pays out dividends instead which may help minimize amount fed to the company’s employee.
If you are concerned about whot gets those kind of “payout” and only tax at capital gains rate instead of “normal” individual taxation. That Is something that could be reform on a company/director/shareholder/investor level, but having a government step in is not the right course imo.

 

[Deia]

$150K used to be rich, a long time ago, now I'd say you're well off if you earn that much on your own. Even having a million dollars in assets isn't rich anymore, IMO. RICH is something else entirely nowadays! It's all about perspective I guess though. Oh, and fyi I don't make anywhere near $150k a year , sadly.

 

[ksinger]

It's NOT just a matter of perspective. Regardless of how anyone FEELS about it, the top 20 percent controls 84 percent of the wealth, and the top 1% alone, nearly 40%. The bottom 20% controls about 1%. The fact that those well off or rich don't feel that way doesn't change the fact that that the rest of those below are having a nasty hard time of things.

My husband's kids think HE'S rich, because he drives a Miata and wears a tie - He's a public school teacher in Oklahoma. But compared to what many of them have known, we might as well be from another planet we have so much money. It's less a comment on our income level than theirs. It is sobering to me to realize that as far as I can determine, I'm in the top echalons of my state's income levels (and pretty much was even before we combined incomes), and I live in an 1100 square foot house and drive my cars for at least 10 years at a pop, and I don't travel much at all.

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Those griping about employees being paid exorbitant amount of income, well you could start investing in companies that actually pays out dividends instead which may help minimize amount fed to the company’s employee. If you are concerned about whot gets those kind of “payout” and only tax at capital gains rate instead of “normal” individual taxation. That Is something that could be reform on a company/director/shareholder/investor level, but having a government step in is not the right course imo.

Actually, to imply the remedy must be based in individual investor decisions is a false argument. C-level compensation has a "payout" in stock in order to take advantage of the current tax structure in which capital gains is a historically low 15%. One can understand why a company would choose to take advantage of beneficial tax loopholes; if it exists, it is logical to benefit. Hopefully one can also understand why the members of a democratic society who do pay taxes should have the right to question whether a particular loophole in a nation's tax code is a net benefit to that democracy, and thus, whether it should exist.

(On a related note, I must point out that the system is further gamed through reloading/resetting options-- for C-level executives, not regular employees of course. FASB rules have themselves been loopholed by an explicit/implicit distinction, where implicit ones are considered through variable cost accounting, which allows them to be expensed, for goodness' sake. Contemplate the impact of this on your aforementioned dividends, as well as any notions of transparency!)

I truly enjoy reading your well-asserted perspective, D&T, but respectfully highlight that while a corporation holds dominion over its compensation decisions within the framework of law, it is within the government's purview to change the tax rate levied on capital gains as well as define what is capital gains as a matter of law. I do believe those in this thread thus far have not bemoaned the "exorbitant amount of income" of high earners, but rather the surprisingly low tax rate those 0.01% who live in a loophole within a loophole get to pay.

 

[MissStepcut]

D&T, I am starting to feel intentionally misunderstood. I don't want to take down the finance industry, and I don't resent anyone the money they make. I also don't want to tax the 10%, 1% or .01% higher. I just want us to reform some of the regulations and laws that I don't think are in the public interest, and benefit the financial sector & corporate executives.

 

[D&T]

We might want to distinguish wealth vs income. If you are talking overall wealth with 50 homes and 20 cars or so then lets talk about that. I am pointing out income only.

I am an immigrant, we lived in a 1 bedroom duplex rental with a religious organization helping us get on our feet, my brothers and sister and I (my sister 5 years my senior and brother 10 year my senior) shared an open family room with two beds (I shared a bed with my sister) until I was 7 years, old and finally my father was able to buy a house on his own after being in the country for five and half years working very very hard. My father was a dishwasher and my mother a house keeper with their very first job. My mother then went onto working for other companies in their production line. Her last company finally pulled the plug in the US and went to Mexico and unfortunately now draws disability. We never utilized the welfare system although we could have easily back in the days. My brother does fine and my sister and I would be considered doing well. We took out student loan and paying back to the governement with interest. I have had a couple of businesses in the past and we could easily have declared bankruptcy and we refuse to do so, because it was our own doing and we are paying or have paid what we owe and take full responsibility for our choices. I know the value of working hard and will continue to do so and one day I would like to be in the top 1% and be able employ many people. I have relied on the government only once for six months back in my early 20s when I was layed off but I actively sought out employment even when it only paid me $7/hr, and this was after having my undergrad degree with st loan payments looming. When/if my parents needs help and care, I will be the one to take on those responsibility and will try very hard to NOT utilize the government.

I have seen many many people first hand who has abused the governments' system even when their family could fully pay for their care and other luxury goods.

I value the US economic system highly until the government starts to reapportion or "reform". Just like Obama care! insurance renewal for my same plan has gone up 159% per pay period and have only two choices from the six plans that used to be offered and this is with my mysband's large corporate company. I'd hate to see what our smaller firm company will have come in the next few months for our employees, sorry as I digress. Going back to making money...

the US constitution guarantees EQUAL opportunities, but I don't believe it GUARANTEED equal outcome... that is something you have to figure out yourself.

 

[D&T]

(On a related note, I must point out that the system is further gamed through reloading/resetting options-- for C-level executives, not regular employees of course. FASB rules have themselves been loopholed by an explicit/implicit distinction, where implicit ones are considered through variable cost accounting, which allows them to be expensed, for goodness' sake. Contemplate the impact of this on your aforementioned dividends, as well as any notions of transparency!)

are you stating that dividends are an allowed expense? if so, that is INCORRECT accounting. Dividends reduce stockholders equity NOT included in an income statement as part of an expensed item and are NOT deductible to a corporation. Taxed on the indiviudal/recipient.

Anyways, I do agree there are wayyyy tooo many tax complications that could take a better look regarding policy to deter loophole.

Back to your regular programming. I went a bit off tangent, but to discuss money without seeing the full effects of taxation (and what I posted isn't even breaking the taxation iceberg) is a bit one sided. Anyways, continue

 

[Dancing Fire]

We might want to distinguish wealth vs income. If you are talking overall wealth with 50 homes and 20 cars or so then lets talk about that. I am pointing out income only.

I am an immigrant, we lived in a 1 bedroom duplex rental with a religious organization helping us get on our feet, my brothers and sister and I (my sister 5 years my senior and brother 10 year my senior) shared an open family room with two beds (I shared a bed with my sister) until I was 7 years, old and finally my father was able to buy a house on his own after being in the country for five and half years working very very hard. My father was a dishwasher and my mother a house keeper with their very first job. My mother then went onto working for other companies in their production line. Her last company finally pulled the plug in the US and went to Mexico and unfortunately now draws disability. We never utilized the welfare system although we could have easily back in the days. My brother does fine and my sister and I would be considered doing well. We took out student loan and paying back to the governement with interest. I have had a couple of businesses in the past and we could easily have declared bankruptcy and we refuse to do so, because it was our own doing and we are paying or have paid what we owe and take full responsibility for our choices. I know the value of working hard and will continue to do so and one day I would like to be in the top 1% and be able employ many people. I have relied on the government only once for six months back in my early 20s when I was layed off but I actively sought out employment even when it only paid me $7/hr, and this was after having my undergrad degree with st loan payments looming. When/if my parents needs help and care, I will be the one to take on those responsibility and will try very hard to NOT utilize the government.

DT
yep, we do rather work as a dishwasher than to go on welfare. Americans never been in our situation so they wouldn't understand how we live when we first immigrated to the U.S.

 

[fleur-de-lis]

(On a related note, I must point out that the system is further gamed through reloading/resetting options-- for C-level executives, not regular employees of course. FASB rules have themselves been loopholed by an explicit/implicit distinction, where implicit ones are considered through variable cost accounting, which allows them to be expensed, for goodness' sake. Contemplate the impact of this on your aforementioned dividends, as well as any notions of transparency!)

are you stating that dividends are an allowed expense?

Nope. What I said was that in contrast to explicit reloading options, implicit reloading options for C-level employees are expensed under a variable cost accounting system.

 

[D&T]

(On a related note, I must point out that the system is further gamed through reloading/resetting options-- for C-level executives, not regular employees of course. FASB rules have themselves been loopholed by an explicit/implicit distinction, where implicit ones are considered through variable cost accounting, which allows them to be expensed, for goodness' sake. Contemplate the impact of this on your aforementioned dividends, as well as any notions of transparency!)

are you stating that dividends are an allowed expense?

Nope. What I said was that in contrast to explicit reloading options, implicit reloading options for C-level employees are expensed under a variable cost accounting system.

Unfortunately Im not a CPA yet, and have to review my FAR and other Accounting material as well as utilize my CFO who is a Tax accountant as these are very very very tricky, You have multitudes of options, perferred, restricted and when they are exercised and how to calculate that and timeline. There is not just one books for a public firms financial unfortunately what is used to report on a company return is not the same as what they present to the public and frankly I don't agree with this as well.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

You are all being so nice about our tippy, tippy top earners. I, for one, do state that when a Merrill Lynch trader makes 100 Million a yr, that its way too much for any individual to believe he is even worth that kind of money. That, dear friends, is what helped bring down the financial system. Multiply that number by traders in our other banks, and you understand how the greed took over and persons just wanted to partake of the money party. Pressure has been exerted on excessive bonus and some banks have curtailed their bonuses. A new pay system should be instituted to prevent the these payout excesses.

People are just people, and if you create a system wherebye the main concern is a profit for the Corp or the individual the employees will go after it.

Hedgefunds are created where the managers don't pay individual taxes , but get a capital tax rate on their income. I believe its called a capital distribution. Much less than income tax.

I say pay the bottom rung or middle manager better. Reduce upper management pay. Public pressure is working somewhat.
Osama Bin Laden, whose dream is was to take down the financial system, didn't have to, we did it ourselves.

DT is right about one thing(or More) / Income is different than Wealth. This discussion began with where is the 1% coming from?
People who work hard do deserve to keep their money, but those that did us in, did so with our money, not theirs. They risked our money, really the peoples money. Of course, a high earner will be able to accummulate wealth, which in our time is a million of investable cash, not including your home. You might fall into the top 10 % with that sum. People used to believe their home made them wealthy, but your home isn'st included.

One other observation. Immigrants have a different attitude. Bless them for it. We need their attitude of they can work and catch the American dream. I'm rather sure they don't expect a 100 Million. DF, you made it. But please think about those risk takes with America's money.

Annette
I do this occasionally to make a point. I've been blest, my brother has been blest, my parents were immigrants, we went to public universities. We were told we could do it. Luck, work all made it possible. But I am for all the people, not the one % that made it truly hard for the 99%

 

[ksinger]

We might want to distinguish wealth vs income. If you are talking overall wealth with 50 homes and 20 cars or so then lets talk about that. I am pointing out income only.

I am an immigrant, we lived in a 1 bedroom duplex rental with a religious organization helping us get on our feet, my brothers and sister and I (my sister 5 years my senior and brother 10 year my senior) shared an open family room with two beds (I shared a bed with my sister) until I was 7 years, old and finally my father was able to buy a house on his own after being in the country for five and half years working very very hard. My father was a dishwasher and my mother a house keeper with their very first job. My mother then went onto working for other companies in their production line. Her last company finally pulled the plug in the US and went to Mexico and unfortunately now draws disability. We never utilized the welfare system although we could have easily back in the days. My brother does fine and my sister and I would be considered doing well. We took out student loan and paying back to the governement with interest. I have had a couple of businesses in the past and we could easily have declared bankruptcy and we refuse to do so, because it was our own doing and we are paying or have paid what we owe and take full responsibility for our choices. I know the value of working hard and will continue to do so and one day I would like to be in the top 1% and be able employ many people. I have relied on the government only once for six months back in my early 20s when I was layed off but I actively sought out employment even when it only paid me $7/hr, and this was after having my undergrad degree with st loan payments looming. When/if my parents needs help and care, I will be the one to take on those responsibility and will try very hard to NOT utilize the government.

DT
yep, we do rather work as a dishwasher than to go on welfare. Americans never been in our situation so they wouldn't understand how we live when we first immigrated to the U.S.

So what DF? You and everyone else with their immigrant sob story can can it as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't take being an immigrant to have pride, or mean that you value standing on your own two feet. I just don't have a problem helping people when they really need it. In any case, just about everyone here is of immigrant stock, and maybe not so long ago. Maybe I and others don't have first person experience, but but we have our personal hardships and family stories too you know - great grandparents came from Croatia, carpenters, blacksmiths, worked hard (at the kind of jobs we no longer have by the way) , weathered hardship, language barrier, tragedy, etc. My mother was marked by it all, and to this day I can barely bear to part with any item I have: in true Great Depression fashion that I learned at my mother's knee, I think I might NEED it some day. Many Americans DO understand how you lived. Just because you project your belief that without a stick of pain to beat someone with, they will ALWAYS be lazy, doesn't make it so. I actually find it more than a bit insulting that you think that of "Americans".

DT - I'm glad you're doing well, and that your family worked hard. But even your story shows that you have benefited from help, both private, unemployment, and government loan. MOST people take after your model - they work hard and don't abuse the safety net or the benefits. But because of the persistent image of the welfare queen, we are going to gut it for everyone. Careful what you wish for...

 

[Dancing Fire]

One other observation. Immigrants have a different attitude. Bless them for it. We need their attitude of they can work and catch the American dream. I'm rather sure they don't expect a 100 Million. DF, you made it. But please think about those risk takes with America's money.

no,i'm far from being rich but i wouldn't go to the park pissing and moaning about how other's made their millions...

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1320968306|
[/quote]

So what DF? You and everyone else with their immigrant sob story can can it as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't take being an immigrant to have pride, or mean that you value standing on your own two feet. I just don't have a problem helping people when they really need it. In any case, just about everyone here is of immigrant stock, and maybe not so long ago. Maybe I and others don't have first person experience, but but we have our personal hardships and family stories too you know - great grandparents came from Croatia, carpenters, blacksmiths, worked hard (at the kind of jobs we no longer have by the way) , weathered hardship, language barrier, tragedy, etc. My mother was marked by it all, and to this day I can barely bear to part with any item I have: in true Great Depression fashion that I learned at my mother's knee, I think I might NEED it some day. Many Americans DO understand how you lived. Just because you project your belief that without a stick of pain to beat someone with, they will ALWAYS be lazy, doesn't make it so. I actually find it more than a bit insulting that you think that of "Americans".

[/quote]


so tell me...how many of those (OWS) are willing to wash dishes or work at Micky D for a living?

 

[packrat]

Well, I'll go to the park and piss and moan about the fact that my husband who is one who busts his ASS from clock in to clock out, won't get a raise and won't get a bonus this year-not b/c he is a sucky POS worker, far from the contrary, his immediate supervisor loves him and thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and knows he puts in about 250% every day, but b/c the ones who can control what the peon's make, think that a raise/bonus isn't in the cards this year financially...tho, you know, they already make millions a year, so it's not a big deal to them to not get a $1/hour raise...they're giving themselves HUGE bonuses/raises, b/c they SO desperately need it of course, so what difference does it make to them if WE have to think about cutting back on the FEW FUN things WE have in OUR lives? They can afford to do whatever/whenever/however and not think twice about it, so of course they don't give a shit. Busting your ass isn't a guarantee you're going to make more money. Nor is working more hours..We don't know how to work the system, the welfare side OR the financial side..I don't know how to hide my shit or find loop holes so I can increase my shit. I wouldn't even consider it, b/c it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. We BARELY are above the welfare line..last year my daughter qualified for 1/2 price lunches and we no way no how were going to take advantage of it. In Kindergarten I'm sure she qualified for free lunches. We didn't do it. The thought of having to do it, even if we needed to, made me sick to my stomach. We aren't out to live off the richies and while away our time starting at the boob tube and expecting those who HAVE to hand shit over to us. We're not that type of people, the lazy ass sitters popping out kids w/14 different last names. We're not the type to try to find every loop hole in the system and work the system to our advantage to increase our holdings either, b/c I feel it's dishonest, whether it's legal or not I happen to feel that way. All *WE* want, is to not be treated like F-ING SHIT EVERY SINGLE DAY b/c we don't have degrees and we're not "SMART". We live in the REAL WORLD and just SOMETIMES it would be NICE to not get kicked in the teeth and be looked DOWN on all the fricken time, like we're trying to reduce EVERYONE in the country to living on food stamps.

 

[movie zombie]

thank you, smitcompton and packrat.

it is the sense that somehow those traders are "entitled"......to my $! that they can gamble my 401k, that they can do what they do and not pay taxes on those hedge funds. its that no matter how much they get, they think they're entitled to more.

DF, i may not have been an immigrant but i did work that made dishwashing look like heaven....so don't tell me what americans will or won't do and what they understand or don't understand. i'm glad you got here and you made a life for yourself but just 'cause you were an immigrant doesn't mean you had it any harder than some of us once you got here. yeah, life may have been crayola where you came from but a lot of us started lower than dishwasher.

 

[ksinger]

[quote="ksinger|1320968306|

So what DF? You and everyone else with their immigrant sob story can can it as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't take being an immigrant to have pride, or mean that you value standing on your own two feet. I just don't have a problem helping people when they really need it. In any case, just about everyone here is of immigrant stock, and maybe not so long ago. Maybe I and others don't have first person experience, but but we have our personal hardships and family stories too you know - great grandparents came from Croatia, carpenters, blacksmiths, worked hard (at the kind of jobs we no longer have by the way) , weathered hardship, language barrier, tragedy, etc. My mother was marked by it all, and to this day I can barely bear to part with any item I have: in true Great Depression fashion that I learned at my mother's knee, I think I might NEED it some day. Many Americans DO understand how you lived. Just because you project your belief that without a stick of pain to beat someone with, they will ALWAYS be lazy, doesn't make it so. I actually find it more than a bit insulting that you think that of "Americans".

[/quote]


so tell me...how many of those (OWS) are willing to wash dishes or work at Micky D for a living?[/quote]

Like 99.9999% of your responses, uninformed, impervious to fact, irrelevant, and still insulting Americans. It's amazing to me that you even want to live here when you have such utter contempt for us.

 

[MissStepcut]

Here is the issue I have with the system as it is:
1) people are often compelled, or lack alternatives, to traditional retirement investment vehicles like 401(k)s
2) a certain class of investors have an oligopoly on investing that money
3) in the meantime, corporations have a revolving door of CEOs and board members who make all the decisions on behalf of their shareholders
4) shareholders have precious little control over the corporations' decision-making because the decisions made by the directors and officers are protected by the business judgment rule
5) without meaningful shareholder oversight, corporations pay absurd salary and bonuses out of the profits (that IN MY OPINION should have been paid into the retirement funds that hold the shares)

It has nothing to do with people wanting transfer payments, it's about a small class of people cleverly capitalizing on the way the law tilts the soup to their side of the bowl.

 

[D&T]

Ksinger, no once said to GUT the system and yes while I use those benefits ie my unemployment for a mere six months, I also paid into the system since I was 15 by working everyday after school. I also am paying my student loans back understanding full well that I am responsible for all the costs I incurred and not expecting my loan be forgiven or a bail out. Much of the blame stems from the banks making terrible loans and people not being responsible on taking those loan. There are many as well who bought well before the 2005 boom and well guess what some did? Refied to take out money and to use it on luxury goods and then when the down turn happen, people walked away and we're in a housing mess.

So don't presume to think I don't want to help people out, you don't know me, and how much money I give to charity or people on the streets. Growing up, my dad worked for a community program (a couple of jobs after his dishwashing career) helping people get back on their feet and get them off the government's money. I have given my share of community service and will continue to do so. I have given my dad's business cards in hopes that people on the streets call him for some work relief /placement program and no one called him!. I understand full well enough the capacity of these programs and I applaud them. So yeah, I understand when it comes to the most destitute social programs are greatly needed.

Sorry all these "Sob" stories bother you so much as it paints a picture of the actual poster and why one view things the way they do.

 

[movie zombie]

and that they make sure the law tilts in their favor:

http://www.washingtonspectator.org/articles/20111015postedprices.cfm

this is really worth the read.

 

[MissStepcut]

and that they make sure the law tilts in their favor:

http://www.washingtonspectator.org/articles/20111015postedprices.cfm

this is really worth the read.

I'd just like to clarify that while there are definitely federal laws that benefit corporations & banks in some pretty shocking ways, I'm referring also to judge-made law (the business judgment rule) that DC/Congress had nothing to do with.

When I think about all the laws that would need to be reformed for our financial sector to look less like kids left unsupervised in a candy store... it's just overwhelming.

 

[movie zombie]

Sorry all these "Sob" stories bother you so much as it paints a picture of the actual poster and why one view things the way they do.

so let me get my paintbrush out and make this perfectly clear: there are those of us that were born here and envied the immigrant that got the dishswashing job.........that dishwashing job was certainly easier than the work i was doing AND paid more, too. DF has painted a picture that Americans won't work and do the things he's done to get ahead.....yeah, right.

for the record, i've had my social security card since i was 12. and i was working before that as well. but i guess that doesn't count because i wasn't an immigrant.

i'm glad that DF...and others...got to come here and they were able to work and attained a good life. but i'm really tired of the looking down on Americans and the discounting that not all Americans were born with silver spoons and golden threads and worked just as hard as the immigrant to attain a comfortable life. the immigrant experience does not make one superior.......and all knowing.

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|

Like 99.9999% of your responses, uninformed, impervious to fact, irrelevant, and still insulting Americans. It's amazing to me that you even want to live here when you have such utter contempt for us.[/quote]

Karen...i have alway say that "we live in the greatest country on earth" ,and i was proud to become an American citizen in 1977, but what i don't understand is why keep depending on our government to do everything?

Karen,remember what JFK said?...it is not what your country can do for you,it is what you can do for your country.

 

[D&T]

Sorry all these "Sob" stories bother you so much as it paints a picture of the actual poster and why one view things the way they do.

so let me get my paintbrush out and make this perfectly clear: there are those of us that were born here and envied the immigrant that got the dishswashing job.........that dishwashing job was certainly easier than the work i was doing AND paid more, too. DF has painted a picture that Americans won't work and do the things he's done to get ahead.....yeah, right.

for the record, i've had my social security card since i was 12. and i was working before that as well. but i guess that doesn't count because i wasn't an immigrant.

i'm glad that DF...and others...got to come here and they were able to work and attained a good life. but i'm really tired of the looking down on Americans and the discounting that not all Americans were born with silver spoons and golden threads and worked just as hard as the immigrant to attain a comfortable life. the immigrant experience does not make one superior.......and all knowing.

Good Grief, no one said anything about immgrants being all knowing and please don't put words in my mouth otherwise i will make my assumptions that all liberals only want to hear what they want and want to only hear the sob stories from other liberals . I am not looking down on Americans in fact I said that I love the US economy and Love the US for giving me EQUAL opportunities to advance.

 

[TristanC]

Education in the US is blessedly accessible, and there are many ways around the system such that even if you falter at one point, you can still make it to the top schools if you have the aptitude and the will. And despite the horrendous costs of tuition fees, it is still available to the majority of society. If they realise it.

This opens doors to a huge range of jobs, in many sectors. The US has so many states and diverse conditions that if you are open to travel, there are hardly any industries that are closed to you. Also a benefit of having a huge impact on the global economy - America today is still highly relevant, and a huge domestic market which means job sectors are abundant.

Does it mean jobs are abundant and that the system is perfect? Depends on who you ask I supposed. Anyway nothing is perfect.

I frown on anyone who lives off welfare due to laziness, but I am glad that systems exist to help underprivileged individuals and needy people who want to better themselves. Who decides the fine line that separates the two parties? Not me. But you can't have it one way without having another. Even the best systems have people who will reap unfair advantage from it... this is the human condition.

As for DF's statements pissing on the common American and overgeneralising the heck out of them... well, that is his way too. And sadly, one of your freedoms means that he can do just that.

Like I said - no matter how well thought out or well meaning something is, someone will take advantage of it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Ksinger, no once said to GUT the system and yes while I use those benefits ie my unemployment for a mere six months, I also paid into the system since I was 15 by working everyday after school. I also am paying my student loans back understanding full well that I am responsible for all the costs I incurred and not expecting my loan be forgiven or a bail out. Much of the blame stems from the banks making terrible loans and people not being responsible on taking those loan. There are many as well who bought well before the 2005 boom and well guess what some did? Refied to take out money and to use it on luxury goods and then when the down turn happen, people walked away and we're in a housing mess.

that is the right thing to do..

on TV i heard this 21 yr girl said...i owe $30k in student loan, how am i able to pay it back? she wants her loan to be forgiven...
i said... tough "S**T i'm sure you had a lot fun spending the $30k... many of these younger generation don't wanna be held responsible for their own debt...

 

[MissStepcut]

Ksinger, no once said to GUT the system and yes while I use those benefits ie my unemployment for a mere six months, I also paid into the system since I was 15 by working everyday after school. I also am paying my student loans back understanding full well that I am responsible for all the costs I incurred and not expecting my loan be forgiven or a bail out. Much of the blame stems from the banks making terrible loans and people not being responsible on taking those loan. There are many as well who bought well before the 2005 boom and well guess what some did? Refied to take out money and to use it on luxury goods and then when the down turn happen, people walked away and we're in a housing mess.

that is the right thing to do..

on TV i heard this 21 yr girl said...i owe $30k in student loan, how am i able to pay it back? she wants her loan to be forgiven...
i said... tough "S**T i'm sure you had a lot fun spending the $30k... many of these younger generation don't wanna be held responsible for their own debt...

Many of this younger generation had tuition many times that of the previous generation, even for "cheap" public schools. YOUR generation let tuition rise out of control by not demanding state school tuition be kept in check. Where were you when my generation needed the adults to apply political pressure?

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="ksinger|1320968306|

So what DF? You and everyone else with their immigrant sob story can can it as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't take being an immigrant to have pride, or mean that you value standing on your own two feet. I just don't have a problem helping people when they really need it. In any case, just about everyone here is of immigrant stock, and maybe not so long ago. Maybe I and others don't have first person experience, but but we have our personal hardships and family stories too you know - great grandparents came from Croatia, carpenters, blacksmiths, worked hard (at the kind of jobs we no longer have by the way) , weathered hardship, language barrier, tragedy, etc. My mother was marked by it all, and to this day I can barely bear to part with any item I have: in true Great Depression fashion that I learned at my mother's knee, I think I might NEED it some day.

Karen

i hope it bring tears to you eyes...

 

[movie zombie]

[quote="D&T|1320974848|3059157 Good Grief, no one said anything about immgrants being all knowing and please don't put words in my mouth otherwise i will make my assumptions that all liberals only want to hear what they want and want to only hear the sob stories from other liberals . I am not looking down on Americans in fact I said that I love the US economy and Love the US for giving me EQUAL opportunities to advance.[/quote]

condescending writing tone not just on your part fed my irritation....of course, you know what they say about assuming......do so at your own risk. roll your eyes all you want.....think of my rant as substantiating your statement:

D&T|1320972745|3059116 wrote:
Sorry all these "Sob" stories bother you so much as it paints a picture of the actual poster and why one view things the way they do.

 

[D&T]

[quote="D&T|1320974848|3059157 Good Grief, no one said anything about immgrants being all knowing and please don't put words in my mouth otherwise i will make my assumptions that all liberals only want to hear what they want and want to only hear the sob stories from other liberals . I am not looking down on Americans in fact I said that I love the US economy and Love the US for giving me EQUAL opportunities to advance.

condescending writing tone not just on your part fed my irritation....of course, you know what they say about assuming......do so at your own risk. roll your eyes all you want.....think of my rant as substantiating your statement:

D&T|1320972745|3059116 wrote:
Sorry all these "Sob" stories bother you so much as it paints a picture of the actual poster and why one view things the way they do.[/quote]

Maybe I am commenting likewise on KSinger's condescending remark as well about the sob story? but again, you only want to read into those that have the same viewpoint as you.