How reliable is GAL certification?

[ajones2122]

Hi
Im loooking into a Mappin and Web engagement ring at an estate jeweler.

She had it appraised for me in exchange for a $300 deposit. The outer cover of the appraisal was navy blue, and i think the company letters were GAL. The report number started with GAL20081389. (She did not provide a copy, merely a viewing)

Is this an acceptable appraisal? Threads i''ve read say GAL is meaningless.

.75 solitaire, round cut, brilliant.

H
VS2

with two little stones with a total weight of .20, G, VS


$7800

I''m wary that she was so willing to take half that ($3800) for the ring.


Since the stone is set, can GIA certify it? Should I demand one before purchase? Can I rely on this current appraisal?

This is my first diamond(obviously) but, i really really want it to work, since my girlfriend loved the ring so much.

Please advise. Thanks in advance.

 

[denverappraiser]

I would not recommend relying on an appraisal where you were not the client.

I would not recommend relying on an appraisal where you don’t have the opportunity evaluate the appraiser. Appraisers are not all the same and the burden is on them to convince you that their opinions have merit. The default answer is no.

I would not recommend relying on an appraisal where you don’t have the entire report.

GIA will only grade stones unmounted.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[niceice]

There is a reason why most of us insist that our clients make arrangements to have their purchase or the diamond which they are considering purchasing from us evaluated by the independent appraiser of their choosing and that concept is called "collusion"

If we have an item appraised, we are the client and it is conceivable that the appraiser may be inclined to cater to our needs as a seller. Conceivable, but not likely with the Gemologists to be found here on PS because they too like to remain impartial and rely on their own grading experience as a basis for their opinion.

If a buyer arranges to have the item they purchase or are considering purchasing appraised, the buyer is the client and the appraiser acts only with the interests of you as the buyer in mind.

Would you purchase a house without obtaining your own appraisal independent of that obtained by the seller? The word "Duh" seems aptly appropriate here as a response, I'm really not asking a question as much as I am making a statement.

Consider for a moment that there are some gemological laboratories that incorporate an if/then statement into their take in form which reads something like "I think that the diamond is this quality and IF it is, issue (and therefore get paid for) a lab report, but if not, I do not want a report issued." Hint: it is not GIA nor AGS, neither lab cares one bit as to what we think the grade of the diamond might be, they are inclined to form their own opinion, furthermore they don't even want the graders to know who the client is - only a client number is allowed as a reference.

At the very least, I would take the diamond to the independent Gemologist / Appraiser of your choosing to determine whether the diamond is even of a quality worthy of being lab graded by the GIA or AGS for your purposes - in other words, is the diamond what you are looking for and if it is, then send it to the GIA or AGS for grading. Have the diamond re-evaluated by your appraiser after it has been reset to ensure that it is still the quality purchased (read, they didn't damage it while setting it) and at that time have a full appraisal of the complete ring issued. This advice is actually "standard industry practice" for most of us selling diamonds on the internet, it is the same advice we give to our clients when they are buying from us and thus we give the same advice to people who are buying diamonds elsewhere.

 

[WinkHPD]

The last time I tried to appraise a GAL I got my face slapped!

Ouch!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/20/2008 1:13:59 PM
Author: Wink
The last time I tried to appraise a GAL I got my face slapped!

Ouch!

LOL!!!!

 

[niceice]

Date: 5/20/2008 1:13:59 PM
Author: Wink
The last time I tried to appraise a GAL I got my face slapped!
Ouch!

Perhaps you should have stated your credentials first

You should know Wink, I almost spit out my coffee when your comment popped up in my email a second ago! Good one!

 

[ajones2122]

Thanks for your comments everyone.

Is it okay to ask the jeweler for a 30 day return option, so that i can

A. Get the engagement part overwith
B. Give my girl the ring.
C. Have the solitaire removed, appraised by GIA or AGS, and then re-set?

I''m worried Since its an estate jeweler, she (and the owner/consigner) would probably have issues with putting the ring out of commission for so long, right?

 

[denverappraiser]

They will also be worried about possible damage to the stone, the mounting, or both caused during the process of pulling and resetting the stone. If this is your plan, make sure they are in on it from the start. Best would have them do the work themselves with an agreement that, assuming that everything comes out ok, you will pay a little extra to cover this additional labor. DO NOT just remove it from the setting without discussing it with them and expect to be able to return it later if it doesn’t work out the way you are hoping. By the way, GIA and AGS are not appraisers, they're grading labs. If you need an appraisal for insurance or other purposes, seek out an appraiser.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[ajones2122]

Ah, i''m starting to get it. I was quite confused before. Thanks Neil.

I guess i should be satisfied about the GAL appraisal she showed me (now I''m realizing that she never said "certification"), because bottom line, if it works for insurance purposes, it works. My girl loves the ring, and thats the other, lower, bottom line.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/21/2008 10:14:17 AM
Author: ajones2122
Ah, i'm starting to get it. I was quite confused before. Thanks Neil.

I guess i should be satisfied about the GAL appraisal she showed me (now I'm realizing that she never said 'certification'), because bottom line, if it works for insurance purposes, it works. My girl loves the ring, and thats the other, lower, bottom line.

That's not what I said. Here's my reply to your question.

Date: 5/20/2008 8:19:53 AM
Author: denverappraiser
I would not recommend relying on an appraisal where you were not the client.

I would not recommend relying on an appraisal where you don’t have the opportunity evaluate the appraiser. Appraisers are not all the same and the burden is on them to convince you that their opinions have merit. The default answer is no.

I would not recommend relying on an appraisal where you don’t have the entire report.

GIA will only grade stones unmounted.

If your purpose in seeking out an appraisal was to decide if you are getting something that is properly represented, you should be using an appraiser who is working for you, not the seller and who you have some reason to believe is trustworthy. This seemed to be your original question. No?

If your purpose is insurance coverage, it is not generally in your best interest to submit an appraisal that shows a value conclusion that you know to be inflated, which seems to be the case given that the dealer is selling it for half of the ‘appraised’ value. Most insurance companies DO NOT resolve claims by writing a check for the declared value of a lost item. They will take the description of the item to their own jeweler and have them quote a price to replace it with another of ‘like kind and quality’. This is the amount they will pay and no more. If you can buy it for $3,800, what makes you think that they can’t? Oh yeah, GAL told you so. Why do you believe them? Your insurance company won't. They hire full time professional shoppers and enjoy enormous buying power with the providers. They can usually can do pretty well. The result is that by submitting an inflated appraisal, you are doubling your insurance premiums without changing their payout in case of a loss at all. Of course the insurance companies will accept this. What’s in it for them not to like? Maybe they really can't replace it for what you're paying and maybe the replacement budget you are paying for at $7,800 really is reasonable but I wouldn't bet on it given the obvious conflict of interest present. At typical sorts of insurance rates, you are increasing your insurance costs by about $50-$70 PER YEAR by using this 'free' appraisal. If the description is weak it's even worse because the definition of 'like kind and quality' will be the description in the appraisal that YOU submit. If it's missing information that you considered to be important in your shopping process, like cutting on the stone or craftsmanship on the mounting, you can expect the replacement to be the least expensive thing they can find that meets whatever standard you set. It's not the insurance companies that should be protesting crappy appraisals, it's consumers. Sometimes free is far more expensive than you think.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[ajones2122]

As far as my original question goes, i think we agree I didn''t know what I was asking.

But re-reading your first response makes it clear: I must research and select my own appraiser.

So is it standard practice to say:

Here''s all the money, Jeweler.
I need the ring for XX days to have it appraised (not certified/taken out of setting) by my own appraiser with the option to return if huge discrepancies are found. If none are found, thanks for the ring.

Or must I arrange an appointment with the jeweler and my appraiser prior to purchase? I would prefer the first option. But am looking forward to your advice.

I ultimately will be satisfied if that new appraisal is near or better than MY purchase price, $3800. (although i''d be upset that the new appraisal was half the original)

I think it sounded like i want a ring that I can lose and collect a check on. Not the case. I just want to make sure I''m not duped, as I reeked of novice when I walked into that store.


Thanks again and again

 

[niceice]

Date: 5/21/2008 11:49:08 AM
Author: ajones2122
So is it standard practice to say:

Here''s all the money, Jeweler. I need the ring for XX days to have it appraised (not certified/taken out of setting) by my own appraiser with the option to return if huge discrepancies are found. If none are found, thanks for the ring.

Fair enough, call it an "inspection period" and make sure the terms of the inspection period are written on the sales receipt, such as: client has X number of days from the date of this receipt to have the diamond evaluated by the independent appraiser of his choosing, at his expense. If not completely satisfied with the results of the evaluation, client may return the ring for a full refund. Or something like that...

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 5/21/2008 11:49:08 AM
Author: ajones2122

Here''s all the money, Jeweler.

I need the ring for XX days to have it appraised (not certified/taken out of setting) by my own appraiser with the option to return if huge discrepancies are found. If none are found, thanks for the ring.

This is basically correct. I would expand it to say that you should have the right to return it within the XX days for ANY reason, not just huge discrepancies reported by your appraiser. You should have the right to collect the opinion of your mother, your astrologer or anyone else whose thoughts you value and get your money back if it doesn''t measure up to your standards.

I will add that it''s reasonable for the jeweler to require you to be in a bit of a hurry about this and it''s certainly reasonable that they require that, if you decide to return it, that it come back unaltered and undamaged in any way.

I''ll also add that some independent appraisers have fairly busy practices and, especially if they aren''t local to you and shipping will be involved, you should probably schedule your appointment in advance, especially if XX days is a tight schedule.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver