How rare is a 40-carat sphene?

[gemandjewelrylover]

(Brownish green) I saw in another post that someone said a 32 carat sphene was museum quality size. So are large sphenes rare? Especially large, clean ones? I found very few on the Internet, and they were incredibly priced.

Thank you.

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Apparently about as rare as replies to this post!

 

[psproot12]

(Brownish green) I saw in another post that someone said a 32 carat sphene was museum quality size. So are large sphenes rare? Especially large, clean ones? I found very few on the Internet, and they were incredibly priced.

Thank you.

Well, 40+ ct sphenes are quite rare, especially in good color. Chromium sphene is the most desirable (a bright green color) and in 20+ carats it is quite rare and in the 10s of thousands. Under 10 ct sphene on the other hand can be purchased for under a $1000.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=sphene&_sop=3

http://www.gemselect.com/sphene/sphene-380602.php

http://www.gemselect.com/gem-info/sphene/sphene-info.php

1-3 ct are extremely cheap and can be purchased for under $50:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Sphene-Titanite-/164394/i.html?_from=R40&_sop=15&LH_BIN=1&_nkw=sphene&_udlo=20&_udhi

 

[T L]

(Brownish green) I saw in another post that someone said a 32 carat sphene was museum quality size. So are large sphenes rare? Especially large, clean ones? I found very few on the Internet, and they were incredibly priced.

Thank you.

I would imagine very rare. I know that any sphene in excess of 5 carats goes way up in price, so a 40 carat, clean sphene, would probably be very rare and expensive. Apple or chrome green are often the most sought after colors, followed by yellow, then brown.

 

[chrono]

A 40 carat sphene is rare (size wise) but the brownish colour is far more common than the chrome green colour variety (and less desired).

 

[minousbijoux]

A sphene of 40 carats must be huge in size.

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Thank you for the replies.

Psp, you did find quite a lot on eBay… When I looked I didn't find that many, but then again I think I shied away from eBay.

The dimensions of it are 27.64×17.98×10.26 mm. It's actually 43 carats.

Here are some photos: The description says brownish green but it's a little bit more greenish than brown.

It's actually completely eye clean except for there is one small black spot on the bottom (near what would be the culet, if it's called a culet on this type of cut.

I think I have the ugliest hands ever for close-up photography. Yikes.

 

[chrono]

Is that yours? That's huge!

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Yes...

 

[chrono]

I guess it's impractical to set?

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Haven't gotten that far, LOL. And most likely would make a pendant if/when I was going to set it, but that's down the road. No plans at the moment.

 

[T L]

Haven't gotten that far, LOL. And most likely would make a pendant if/when I was going to set it, but that's down the road. No plans at the moment.

I can definitely see that as a pendant, but not a ring. I hope you have a good jeweler who can set very soft stones.

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Haven't gotten that far, LOL. And most likely would make a pendant if/when I was going to set it, but that's down the road. No plans at the moment.

I can definitely see that as a pendant, but not a ring. I hope you have a good jeweler who can set very soft stones.

Yes, I do, that's not a problem.

 

[LoversKites]

That looks very clean for such a large sphene, quite amazing!

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Thank you, LK!

 

[minousbijoux]

If you love it the way it is, then great. But if not, you might want to consider finding a good lapidary and having it recut to bring out more of the spectral fire they are so well known for. I hope you take this in the way it is intended; I know you are a collector and like the unusual for collection purposes.

 

[chrono]

Minou,
I'm not sure if the lapidary would have sufficient depth to work with unless she is willing to lose a lot of face up size. The sphene measures 27.64 × 17.98 × 10.26 mm.

 

[minousbijoux]

Oh, thanks! I missed those measurements somehow. Yes, that makes a big difference, unfortunately.

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Elvis Prasiolite, LOL!

Minousbijoux and Chrono, yes, I also have thought about that. It's not the ideal cut for showing the spark of this Sphene...of course, they are so hard to photograph and it's hard to capture the true colors. It does have nice color in sunlight. But I have a couple other sphenes that sparkle like no tomorrow. What do you think would be better - a 43 carat sphene as is, for size rarity, or a bit smaller one for sparkle? And how much do you think it would have to lose to bring out the best in it? Any cutters out there have an opinion?

Thank you!

 

[minousbijoux]

I would always go for the best one visually; I have no interest in going for records - but that's me.

 

[chrono]

I would talk to a lapidary and ask for his/her estimate on a pavilion only recut to minimize the window. To completely remove the window will mean too much carat weight loss, size loss and $$$ loss.

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Ok. Thank you, mb and Chrono! No plans for the stone at the moment, so I have time to think it over.

Your advice and input is always appreciated.

 

[minousbijoux]

Even if the window cannot be completely eliminated, perhaps you can talk to the lapidary about the high level of extinction it currently has, and see if it can be mitigated with tweaking of facet angles and such. Just a thought.

Edited for typos

 

[Andelain]

Pretty doorknob!

 

[minousbijoux]

Pretty doorknob!

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Mg, that's something to think about. I will check into that.

Andelain,

Thank you!

 

[Lee Little]

Rare enough that I have never seen one even close to being that clean in that size range and I would want to check it first in order to believe it. Certainly looks like a great candidate for a re-cut even with considerable weight loss.

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Rare enough that I have never seen one even close to being that clean in that size range and I would want to check it first in order to believe it. Certainly looks like a great candidate for a re-cut even with considerable weight loss.

Hi, Lee,

Thank you! Yes, that was the main attraction to this stone was that it was so clean for such a large sphene. The cut isn't the best to show its color, but my dealer had it cut to preserve the clarity and size, cutting out one big inclusion on the underside. There is still a small speck there, but it's minimal. I'd love it if it would sparkle like another small sphene I have, but when you say considerable weight loss, how much do you think?

Of course it came with a certificate (from a Japanese lab, I am in Japan.)

Thank you for your comment!

 

[Lee Little]

Well, I am not a cutter but I have a lot of stones re-cut to suit my needs and it is usually surprising at how little is actually lost. The depth will be a determining factor. Thick stone need not lose much, however, thin stones will lose quite heavily in order to get them to sparkle.
It does appear in the pics to have a decent amount of depth so I would guess that it will still be 30 something.
The colors certainly do look like Sphene so I bet the lab is correct too. What a nice find!

 

[gemandjewelrylover]

Hello again, Lee,

I've attached a couple more pictures. I don't have a picture of it face down at the moment,, I can take one later though. Does have a sizable tilt window. You can see the inclusion that is on the underside of the stone in the first picture.

The dimensions of it are 27.64×17.98×10.26 mm.

So which do you think would be more valuable? A 43 carat sphene, or a 30 carat sparklier one? i'm sure a 30 carat sphene is much easier to find than a 43 ct one. I am interested in keeping it as rare as possible.....

Thank you for your posts and comments! I do appreciate it.