How rare are chameleon diamonds?

[kroshka]

Experts - please chime in!

Kroshka

 

[kenny]

FWIW I just checked two vendor sites that sell natural colored diamonds.
http://www.fancycolordiamond.net/ lists the following quantities:

154 Yellows
86 Pinks
29 Orange
31 Green (note Chameleons were originally mixed in with the greens so I subtracted them out)
25 Blues
13 Chameleon
12 Black

Another site http://www.fancydiamonds.net/ list the following quantities.
Note these are number of pages of diamonds, not number of individual diamonds:

36 Yellows
18 Pinks
17 Orange
10 Green (note Chameleons were originally mixed in with the greens so I subtracted them out)
8 Blues
4 Chameleons
5 Black

You asked about rarity.
Do you mean what comes out of the earth, or what is offered for sale?
This may not be a representation of the relative quantity of colors that come out of the ground; It is only what these two vendors have now.
They may have matched their inventory to anticipated demand for all I know.

Note that the order is about the same and the relative quantities are about the same in most colors but I think these two vendors, while not stocking the same stones, are associated.

 

[kroshka]

Hi Kenny,

Actually what spawned the thought was Gary''s comment on the on the fancy light blue diamond thread (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-light-blue-diamond.124583/) here in Rocky Talky. He mentioned yellows are not really rare, but pinks and blues are. I know greens can be rare too - more so for the ones that are pure green or mainly green without other modifiers (unless it''s blue . Many of the chameleons out there have green in them or the main body color identified by GIA is green. Since all the chameleons I have come across also have some kind of modifying colors such as gray, yellow, and brown or any mix thereof, I''m curious to know if chameleons are actually rare or more abundant than one might think. It would be interesting to know statistics like how many carats are mined per year that actually turn out to be chameleons and how rare they are in comparison to other colors like pink, blue, orange, and yellow. Since chameleons are a subset of fancy colored diamonds how many carats found each year are chameleon and the other rare colors like blue? Seems if you research many articles, they are able to give statistics for how many carats of pinks each year (i.e. Argyle Tender), but I haven''t come across too many articles on how many blues, oranges, and chameleons are mined each year.

Kroshka

 

[dkodner]

Hi Kroshka-

Firstly, I do not necessarily agree with the statement that yellows are not rare. I do think there are a lot of "yellow" diamonds out there that are not inherently "fancy" colors, but if as the GIA says, that possibly 1 in every 2500 to 5000 stones is a fancy color, then even though you see much more yellow in the market, they are still rare in comparison to clear counterparts. I don''t really want to argue that point though, as it is arguable, and I personally do not consider many stones less than intense yellow to be a true fancy colored diamond. An argument can be made that all of the so-called "yellow" diamonds combined puts the yellows in their own category and then nowhere near as rare as other fancy colors. You get pretty good numbers of how many pinks are mined because they primarily come from the same place these days, so it is somewhat easy to keep track of what was mined. When it comes to blues, greens and other colors, it becomes more difficult as the rough can come from numerous mines. I do not know of any numbers compiled on the mining of Chameleons, but I think it would be safe to say they are still very rare. The color combinations that create the common name "olive" are in greater abundance than those that are deemed Chameleon, and so it is the color change that makes them much more rare. There are more desirable, or I should say sellable combinations of chameleons than others. You almost always want green to be listed somewhere in the combination, and the most prized would be green as the primary color, ie. brownish yellowish green, or grayish brownish green. The deep colors are much more desirable than something graded as just a fancy, and are much higher priced. So the short answer to my long winded one is that there are no exact numbers, but Chameleons, especially deep colored ones, are very rare. I would say Blues and Pinks and straight Greens are still more rare, but Chameleons are much rarer than straight yellows. Hope that helps.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Everyone!
My experience is that chameleons are far more common than a blue, or pink diamonds.
I agree with D Kodner that chameleons are less commonly seen as compared to the many different shades of yellow we see.

I have seen quite a few chameleons in the "Greenish, Brownish, yellowish" vein. Some were priced well below a colorless stone.
Many were less than attractive....for me, the mere fact it''s a Chameleon does not make it desirable.
Plus, it''s quite difficult to actually see the color change, other than the first time you take it out after it''s been in the dark fr a while.

With regards to common colors: pure green- even very light green in intensity is right up there with Blue as one of the rarest colors.
My experience is similar to David''s.
As opposed to the rare color blue, there are quite a few variants of green combined with yellow and brown....what D Kodner referred to as "olive"

I base my opinions on what we see in the market- although the articles kroshka mentions sound quite interesting.

 

[Serg]

Hi everyone,

Did anybody see Chameleon diamond what change color from grey to Intense-Vivid Blue in the hand under sun?

You need warm it to human body temperature and observer in natural daylight

 

[Rockdiamond]

Serg, have you seen such a thing?
I''ve never heard of anything like that!

 

[Snicklefritz]

I don''t know how rare they are, but I have a chameleon diamond, or a white diamond with a chameleon affect. In some lights it''s greenish and in others it''s yellowish. It happens to be one of the pretty ones,

If I do say so myself.

 

[stone-cold11]

Serg, sounds like a beautiful round.

 

[kroshka]

Date: 9/10/2009 5:35:33 PM
Author: Snicklefritz
I don''t know how rare they are, but I have a chameleon diamond, or a white diamond with a chameleon affect. In some lights it''s greenish and in others it''s yellowish. It happens to be one of the pretty ones,

If I do say so myself.

Hi Snickelfritz,

Do you have photos of your diamond or have you created a thread for it somewhere? I would love to see it!

Kroshka

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 9/10/2009 5:49:46 PM
Author: kroshka

Date: 9/10/2009 5:35:33 PM

Author: Snicklefritz

I don''t know how rare they are, but I have a chameleon diamond, or a white diamond with a chameleon affect. In some lights it''s greenish and in others it''s yellowish. It happens to be one of the pretty ones,

If I do say so myself.

Hi Snickelfritz,

Do you have photos of your diamond or have you created a thread for it somewhere? I would love to see it!

Kroshka

I think this is the thread. It is not a chameleon exactly. Change color due to the fluor and K color I am thinking.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-2-70-craigslist-k.119189/

 

[kroshka]

Date: 9/10/2009 12:43:08 PM
Author: dkodner
Hi Kroshka-

Firstly, I do not necessarily agree with the statement that yellows are not rare. I do think there are a lot of ''yellow'' diamonds out there that are not inherently ''fancy'' colors, but if as the GIA says, that possibly 1 in every 2500 to 5000 stones is a fancy color, then even though you see much more yellow in the market, they are still rare in comparison to clear counterparts. I don''t really want to argue that point though, as it is arguable, and I personally do not consider many stones less than intense yellow to be a true fancy colored diamond. An argument can be made that all of the so-called ''yellow'' diamonds combined puts the yellows in their own category and then nowhere near as rare as other fancy colors. You get pretty good numbers of how many pinks are mined because they primarily come from the same place these days, so it is somewhat easy to keep track of what was mined. When it comes to blues, greens and other colors, it becomes more difficult as the rough can come from numerous mines. I do not know of any numbers compiled on the mining of Chameleons, but I think it would be safe to say they are still very rare. The color combinations that create the common name ''olive'' are in greater abundance than those that are deemed Chameleon, and so it is the color change that makes them much more rare. There are more desirable, or I should say sellable combinations of chameleons than others. You almost always want green to be listed somewhere in the combination, and the most prized would be green as the primary color, ie. brownish yellowish green, or grayish brownish green. The deep colors are much more desirable than something graded as just a fancy, and are much higher priced. So the short answer to my long winded one is that there are no exact numbers, but Chameleons, especially deep colored ones, are very rare. I would say Blues and Pinks and straight Greens are still more rare, but Chameleons are much rarer than straight yellows. Hope that helps.

Thanks for your response dkodner! I wonder if there are any articles in regards to an approximation % of chameleons mined or of the % of fancy colored diamonds mined each year x are chameleons, x are blue, etc. I''m sure GIA journals probably have an article on chameleons somewhere, I''ll have to look into that. The GIA statistic you mentioned that 1 stone in every 2500-5000 stones is a fancy color, does this include browns & cognacs (i.e. fancy, fancy deep, fancy dark, etc)? Also, as generality in regards to pricing, what do you find are factors that affect price for chameleons other than an obviously overall attractive colored stone that is classified as deep, etc.? Have you come across many reverse chameleons?

Although this is another animal, I might as well ask here. Do you happen to have any information on fancy whites? There is fancy white that I saw for sale approximately 10 years ago that I kind of kick myself for not buying - at least for collections sake. It was very pretty unlike some of the fancy whites I have come across since.

Kroshka

 

[kroshka]

Date: 9/10/2009 4:01:56 PM
Author: Serg
Hi everyone,

Did anybody see Chameleon diamond what change color from grey to Intense-Vivid Blue in the hand under sun?

You need warm it to human body temperature and observer in natural daylight

Serg - this stone sounds amazing! If you have anymore info on such stones or any photos - please share so I can drool and dream

Kroshka

 

[kroshka]

Thanks for thereference link Stone-cold11

Kroshka

 

[Snicklefritz]

Date: 9/10/2009 6:04:36 PM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 9/10/2009 5:49:46 PM
Author: kroshka

Date: 9/10/2009 5:35:33 PM

Author: Snicklefritz

I don''t know how rare they are, but I have a chameleon diamond, or a white diamond with a chameleon affect. In some lights it''s greenish and in others it''s yellowish. It happens to be one of the pretty ones,

If I do say so myself.

Hi Snickelfritz,

Do you have photos of your diamond or have you created a thread for it somewhere? I would love to see it!

Kroshka

I think this is the thread. It is not a chameleon exactly. Change color due to the fluor and K color I am thinking.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-2-70-craigslist-k.119189/

Actually, the color change is not due to fluor and the k color combination. When I had the diamond appraised by an independent appraiser who is GIA certified, she specifically stated that it does have a chameleon nature despite the K color and the fluor. She put it under a very bright white light and the green came right out. I don''t have any pictures of it showing it''s green coloring in my thread but if I find the time I might be able to take some.

 

[stone-cold11]

chameleon effect is not define as such.

The color change comes about from a change in diamond temperature. One color will be seen after leaving the stone in the dark, the other when it heats up to room temperature.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Date: 9/10/2009 6:45:43 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
chameleon effect is not define as such.

Not trying to overstep my bounds, I just know what my appraiser told me and what I see with my eyes. It simply changes from yellow to green, though not very intense yellow or green, of course. I''m really not an expert and don''t want to pretend to be.

 

[stone-cold11]

I think your appraiser is wrong in the definition. Chameleon color change do not come about with a change in light intensity but from a change in the stone''s temperature. The room temperature color will remain the same.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 9/10/2009 6:06:51 PM
Author: kroshka

Date: 9/10/2009 12:43:08 PM

Thanks for your response dkodner! I wonder if there are any articles in regards to an approximation % of chameleons mined or of the % of fancy colored diamonds mined each year x are chameleons, x are blue, etc. I'm sure GIA journals probably have an article on chameleons somewhere, I'll have to look into that. The GIA statistic you mentioned that 1 stone in every 2500-5000 stones is a fancy color, does this include browns & cognacs (i.e. fancy, fancy deep, fancy dark, etc)? Also, as generality in regards to pricing, what do you find are factors that affect price for chameleons other than an obviously overall attractive colored stone that is classified as deep, etc.? Have you come across many reverse chameleons?


Although this is another animal, I might as well ask here. Do you happen to have any information on fancy whites? There is fancy white that I saw for sale approximately 10 years ago that I kind of kick myself for not buying - at least for collections sake. It was very pretty unlike some of the fancy whites I have come across since.


Kroshka

HI Kroshka,
The price of a chameleon depends a lot on the color grade, size, clarity, and ovrall appearance.
I've seen "Fancy White" diamonds- graded as such by the GIA- these really left me scratching my head- I mean, it looks opaque- not what you'd generally expect to see in a stone known for brilliance.

BTW- although I mentioned some of the chameleons I've seen were not all that attractive, we've also seen some GORGEOUS ones
I'm out of the office this week, but next week I can post photos and grades of a few chameleons weve had over the years


ETA- I agree with stonecold- the color change is initiated by heat- or keeping the diamond in the dark for at least 12 hours.

The coor change from green to yellow sounds like fluorescence

 

[Snicklefritz]

Date: 9/10/2009 7:11:32 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
I think your appraiser is wrong in the definition. Chameleon color change do not come about with a change in light intensity but from a change in the stone''s temperature. The room temperature color will remain the same.

Oh my gosh, that''s so interesting! I guess either my appraiser is wrong or I misinterpreted what she said. She did mention that the white light she put it under had stronger heat than the other lamp she was using. Could that be what she meant, or what caused it to look green? Or is the chameleon affect only caused when a dimond changes temperature from darkness to room temperature?

 

[Snicklefritz]

Date: 9/10/2009 7:14:24 PM
Author: Rockdiamond

Date: 9/10/2009 6:06:51 PM
Author: kroshka

Date: 9/10/2009 12:43:08 PM

Thanks for your response dkodner! I wonder if there are any articles in regards to an approximation % of chameleons mined or of the % of fancy colored diamonds mined each year x are chameleons, x are blue, etc. I''m sure GIA journals probably have an article on chameleons somewhere, I''ll have to look into that. The GIA statistic you mentioned that 1 stone in every 2500-5000 stones is a fancy color, does this include browns & cognacs (i.e. fancy, fancy deep, fancy dark, etc)? Also, as generality in regards to pricing, what do you find are factors that affect price for chameleons other than an obviously overall attractive colored stone that is classified as deep, etc.? Have you come across many reverse chameleons?


Although this is another animal, I might as well ask here. Do you happen to have any information on fancy whites? There is fancy white that I saw for sale approximately 10 years ago that I kind of kick myself for not buying - at least for collections sake. It was very pretty unlike some of the fancy whites I have come across since.


Kroshka

HI Kroshka,
The price of a chameleon depends a lot on the color grade, size, clarity, and ovrall appearance.
I''ve seen ''Fancy White'' diamonds- graded as such by the GIA- these really left me scratching my head- I mean, it looks opaque- not what you''d generally expect to see in a stone known for brilliance.

BTW- although I mentioned some of the chameleons I''ve seen were not all that attractive, we''ve also seen some GORGEOUS ones
I''m out of the office this week, but next week I can post photos and grades of a few chameleons weve had over the years


ETA- I agree with stonecold- the color change is initiated by heat- or keeping the diamond in the dark for at least 12 hours.

The coor change from green to yellow sounds like fluorescence

Hmm, maybe I''m just barking up the wrong tree.

Makes me pretty sad if it''s not a chameleon, though.

Oh well, I still love it.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 9/10/2009 7:02:47 PM
Author: Snicklefritz

Date: 9/10/2009 6:45:43 PM

Author: Stone-cold11

chameleon effect is not define as such.

Not trying to overstep my bounds, I just know what my appraiser told me and what I see with my eyes. It simply changes from yellow to green, though not very intense yellow or green, of course. I''m really not an expert and don''t want to pretend to be.

I agree with Stone- I''d generally not accept the assessment of "chameleon" if it was not issued by GIA.

On the other hand: many of the most incredibly distinct color change stones I''ve seen were due to fluorescence, as opposed to being a chameleon.
AND- initiating the color change is a simple matter- you can even buy a small UV amp and carry it with you.
When you put a fluorescent diamond in the dark, and hit it with the UV, the effect is dramatic!

 

[dkodner]

Date: 9/10/2009 6:06:51 PM
Author: kroshka

Date: 9/10/2009 12:43:08 PM

Thanks for your response dkodner! I wonder if there are any articles in regards to an approximation % of chameleons mined or of the % of fancy colored diamonds mined each year x are chameleons, x are blue, etc. I''m sure GIA journals probably have an article on chameleons somewhere, I''ll have to look into that. The GIA statistic you mentioned that 1 stone in every 2500-5000 stones is a fancy color, does this include browns & cognacs (i.e. fancy, fancy deep, fancy dark, etc)? Also, as generality in regards to pricing, what do you find are factors that affect price for chameleons other than an obviously overall attractive colored stone that is classified as deep, etc.? Have you come across many reverse chameleons?


Although this is another animal, I might as well ask here. Do you happen to have any information on fancy whites? There is fancy white that I saw for sale approximately 10 years ago that I kind of kick myself for not buying - at least for collections sake. It was very pretty unlike some of the fancy whites I have come across since.


Kroshka

Sadly I have not read any articles that give the kind of percentages you are asking about, it would be really interesting information to see. I''ve never looked into it, but I would guess that the GIA labs would have a good compilation of those numbers since the majority of the stones would pass through them for grading. I wouldn''t think they would make that information public, but you never know. There are several great articles on Chameleons from Gems and Gemology. Last year they published a book of collected articles. It''s a great resource and read. You should definitely get a copy of it. Here''s a link to the GIA order page. https://www.gia.edu/ggorderform/

I read the fact about 1 in 2500-5000 in an article recently, and I would imagine that includes all colors. I''ve also read 1 in 10,000 carats is a fancy color, but not sure exactly what that definition is. That speaks to the rarity of Chameleons, as such a small number of fancy colors are Chameleons, they are rare in the fancy color world, then compared to all diamonds, they are extremely rare.

As you know, overall beauty is a huge factor in the pricing, but I have found the highest priced stones are always graded deep, and the more dominant the green, the more valuable. The presence of brown in the report tends to have a negative price effect, which is fine with me, because I like the brown tones.

......I''ve only seen one reverse chameleon, and the material was not very nice, so I was a little underwhelmed. Still fascinating to see it go from brownish yellow to a deep brownish green.

White diamonds are just as amazing as any color in my opinion. They are certainly an odd looking diamond though. A true fancy white diamond has a multitude of microscopic particles that scatter the white light. The inclusions reduce the transparency as well and give the diamond some degree of milky white appearance. They tend to look the same whether face up or through the body. The faceting does not change the face up view much at all. The closer they get to looking like pure milk though, the more valuable. Pure white near opaque is a collectors dream, but the complete opposite of what most want to see in a diamond. Most whites are semi-translucent, and most also have some type of modifier. You will see shades of gray, brown, yellow etc., even blue. There are very few pure white diamonds. The modifiers make for some very cool stones. A bluish fluorescence gives one a kind of electric blue look. Gorgeous. They are pretty inexpensive with modifiers, relative to other fancy colors. Every collection should have a fancy white. As many nice colors as you have, you should definitely add one to your collection Kroshka... Stephen Hofer has a great very extensive chapter on white diamonds. A must read before you buy one.

Snicklefritz (great name), you have a very cool diamond. Stone-cold and David are right, it''s not technically a chameleon, although it sounds like it has a chameleon like effect. Chameleon is a specific designation by the GIA, not just an apparent change in color. It sounds like your diamond gets an apparent color change depending on the light spectrum it''s viewed under. It could have some green or yellow very faintly in the crystal that comes out under a yellowish light, if it has fluorescence, that probably helps accentuate it. That''s no less amazing though, think how unique that diamond is.

 

[Serg]

Date: 9/10/2009 4:32:44 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Serg, have you seen such a thing?

I''ve never heard of anything like that!

Not, yet. May be I will see it 3 weeks later in Antwerp

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 9/10/2009 7:35:32 PM
Author: Snicklefritz
Hmm, maybe I''m just barking up the wrong tree.

Makes me pretty sad if it''s not a chameleon, though.

Oh well, I still love it.

It still sounds like a pretty color changing diamond, just not a chameleon.

 

[Rockdiamond]

As promised: Here's the Chameleon I was thinking of.

From the GIA report
WEIGHT: 1.01ct
SHAPE: Radiant Cut
COLOR: Fancy Deep Brownish Greenish Yellow CHAMELEON
CLARITY: SI1
MEASUREMENTS: 5.65 x 5.11 x 3.84 mm
TOTAL DEPTH: 75.1%
TABLE SIZE: 58%
POLISH: VG
SYMMETRY: G
FLUORESCENCE: STRONG YELLOW

The stone was priced at about the same level as a W-X color stone of similar cut.
The reason for such a reasonable price was that stones such as this one are , in my experience, not common by any means, yet they are not nearly as rare as a blue, for example.

 

[Rockdiamond]

David- thank you for the info about Fancy White Diamonds.
The one time I remember being offered one, it was a pure white, and it was expensive.
It looked almost like an opal, if that makes any sense.

The cutter who showed me the stone is beyond reproach- but I was still incredulous about the price.

You validated what he said.
Maybe I should not have passed on it!

Thanks for the great info