How much does H&A matter?

[meyekal]

Hi all,

I was curious to hear some opinions about how much H&A''s matter to the appearance of a diamond. I am having trouble buying a diamond online since i don''t really fell like I can compare it to other diamonds before purchasing it.

Do you think most store based diamond dealers would be familiar with Hearts and Arrows or Idealscopes if I ask them about them?

Thanks for the help

 

[squarediamondlove]

Other dealers definately should be familiar with H&A (otherwise I would get worried if thats a knowlegable dealer) and they can probably get some diamonds for you to look at. The only problem to that is that you won't actually know if its a true H&A b/c they will likely not have all the equitment to show you the cut. You may have to buy the H&A viewer and the idealcope to make sure you are not getting ripped off.

As far as cut. I personally didn't like rounds until I saw the H&A round diamond, so if this is for an e-ring I would definately opt for the H&A. The difference in the symmetry of the stone and the sparkle is very clear to me. You can also get very close calls that may save you $$ like the Whiteflash's expert selections. Here is the link for that

Here is a reference of what a H&A round looks when compared to other rounds.Also, here is the link to the way H&A sparkle compared to other standard rounds

 

[Rod]

I'll probably get shot down by some of the experts on the forum with my views, but here goes:

Just because a diamond is rated H & A doesn't (IMHO) make it a better diamond. The cut of the diamond is the most important aspect and there are many absolutely beautiful stones that aren't H & A. I'm the proud owner of a diamond that some would call Premium cut, not Ideal, and my stone is extremely beautiful. Most of us have become completely obsessed by diamond numbers, angles, depths, table percentages in our pursuit of what's "THE BEST" we can buy. At some point, you have to wonder How Good is Good Enough.

If you go into a store like Zales or Kay, they won't likely show you a scope and there's a good chance the person trying to sell you a diamond sold shoes the week before. If you want a good diamond, they will push you towards the Leo. A branded diamond from Leo Shatner, it's their version of an Ideal Cut stone. It will cost you more than it's worth, but at least it's not an awful stone.

If you want to buy from a B & M (I did) you are likely going to have better luck with an independent jeweler who carries better quality than the "Maul" stores out there.

That said, if you deal with one of the better internet dealers on this forum, such as Good Old Gold, Whiteflash or Wink Jones, they will help you understand the quality of stone you want and really help you by providing verifiable data to back up the diamonds real characteristics.

I'm not sure if my ramblings will help you at all. I wouldn't get hung up on H & A. Decide how much you can spend and get the best cut stone your budget will permit. Buy that stone from someone you trust. Make sure you can return the stone for a full refund if you are not pleased with the stone. And make sure you have a full trade up policy on the stone.

Good luck............

 

[XChick03]

From what I''ve read and heard, H&A makes for a really brilliant diamond, but you can have an AGS0 (ideal cut) that''s not an H&A that will still sparkle beautifully.

 

[strmrdr]

My opinion is that over a wide range of lighting conditions the optical symmetry of an h&a diamond will win over other diamonds.
There will be some light conditions where it wont make a large difference and some it will make a lot of difference.
When to comes to the level of optical symmetry a near h&a can be just as kicken as a true h&a is most light conditions and save some money.
With in the range of h&a diamonds there are different looks that perform differently under different light conditions.
There are also some that are more suited for uses other than a ring that have h&a patterns and are kicken if used in the right application.

On the other hand I like high level optical symmetry just because I think its kewl so if it performed just the same id still go for it.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 2/10/2006 4:12:03 PM
Author: Rod
I''ll probably get shot down by some of the experts on the forum with my views, but here goes:

Just because a diamond is rated H & A doesn''t (IMHO) make it a better diamond. The cut of the diamond is the most important aspect and there are many absolutely beautiful stones that aren''t H & A. I''m the proud owner of a diamond that some would call Premium cut, not Ideal, and my stone is extremely beautiful. Most of us have become completely obsessed by diamond numbers, angles, depths, table percentages in our pursuit of what''s ''THE BEST'' we can buy. At some point, you have to wonder How Good is Good Enough.

If you go into a store like Zales or Kay, they won''t likely show you a scope and there''s a good chance the person trying to sell you a diamond sold shoes the week before. If you want a good diamond, they will push you towards the Leo. A branded diamond from Leo Shatner, it''s their version of an Ideal Cut stone. It will cost you more than it''s worth, but at least it''s not an awful stone.

If you want to buy from a B & M (I did) you are likely going to have better luck with an independent jeweler who carries better quality than the ''Maul'' stores out there.

That said, if you deal with one of the better internet dealers on this forum, such as Good Old Gold, Whiteflash or Wink Jones, they will help you understand the quality of stone you want and really help you by providing verifiable data to back up the diamonds real characteristics.

I''m not sure if my ramblings will help you at all. I wouldn''t get hung up on H & A. Decide how much you can spend and get the best cut stone your budget will permit. Buy that stone from someone you trust. Make sure you can return the stone for a full refund if you are not pleased with the stone. And make sure you have a full trade up policy on the stone.

Good luck............

Rod,

On the contrary, I think a lot of the people here would agree with you. There are some lovely H&A stones but it’s definitely incorrect to say that ALL lovely stones display the same patterning. I also applaud your advice of choosing the dealer as carefully as you choose the stone. Starting out by building a relationship with a jeweler, either online or on the street, who does business in a style that works well for you goes a long way to making this a pleasant experience and drastically increases the chances that you will end up with the best stone for you.

Actually, the only thing I disagree with is your blanket disparagement of all jewelry stores who rent space in malls. Some are bad, some aren’t.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Rod]

Neil.......My apologies if you thought I was commenting that all Maul stores are created equal. For example, I think Baily Banks and Biddle, Mayors and Tiffany are three high quality stores one might find in a good Mall. When I think of low level Maul stores, I think Zales, Kay, Whitehall etc. Unfortunately, they have the big advertising budgets and run TV spots every 2.5 seconds. I also recognize that many malls have independent jewelers who rent space and I have been very successful buying from a quality independent jeweler in my local mall myself.

Thanks for letting me clarify............

 

[diamondseeker2006]

HI, I''ll admit to being a little concerned about this issue as well after reading on this forum! But it is my understanding that Hearts and Arrows represent only a fraction of the Ideal cut stones. So, no, I do not in any way feel it is a mistake or a compromise to buy a well cut stone that is not Hearts and Arrows. In fact, I really love traditionally cut diamonds!

 

[solange]

There appear to be very few H&A stones in larger sizes. On a Pricescope search, there were only a few in the 3 carat and above.
Is there a reason for this? Is it that there is so little demand for H&A stones in large siizes or does the size not lend itself to H&A cutting?
Are there any H&A stones posted here in large sizes--3.5 carats or over?

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 2/11/2006 4:01:00 PM
Author: solange
There appear to be very few H&A stones in larger sizes. On a Pricescope search, there were only a few in the 3 caratand above.
Is there a reason for this? Is it that there is so little demand for H&A stones in large siizes or does the cut not lend itself to H&A cutting?
Are there any H&A stones posted here in large sizes--3.5 carats or over?

Many people have never heard of H&A, but size is universal. Finishing a diamond with H&A precision requires removal of more weight. Since pieces of unpolished rough are increasingly rare with size, larger pieces are usually finished in the most economical manner.

For example, a diamond that finishes as a 4.01 ct round with good proportions will command a higher premium than the same piece of rough would if polished/worked on enough to finish as a 3.80 ct superideal.

With large, rare pieces of rough the yield becomes even more paramount than it is in more common sized goods. Superideals in large sizes exist but over 3 cts they are indeed quite rare.

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 2/10/2006 5:38:06 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 2/10/2006 4:12:03 PM
Author: Rod
I''ll probably get shot down by some of the experts on the forum with my views, but here goes:

Just because a diamond is rated H & A doesn''t (IMHO) make it a better diamond. The cut of the diamond is the most important aspect and there are many absolutely beautiful stones that aren''t H & A. I''m the proud owner of a diamond that some would call Premium cut, not Ideal, and my stone is extremely beautiful. Most of us have become completely obsessed by diamond numbers, angles, depths, table percentages in our pursuit of what''s ''THE BEST'' we can buy. At some point, you have to wonder How Good is Good Enough.

If you go into a store like Zales or Kay, they won''t likely show you a scope and there''s a good chance the person trying to sell you a diamond sold shoes the week before. If you want a good diamond, they will push you towards the Leo. A branded diamond from Leo Shatner, it''s their version of an Ideal Cut stone. It will cost you more than it''s worth, but at least it''s not an awful stone.

If you want to buy from a B & M (I did) you are likely going to have better luck with an independent jeweler who carries better quality than the ''Maul'' stores out there.

That said, if you deal with one of the better internet dealers on this forum, such as Good Old Gold, Whiteflash or Wink Jones, they will help you understand the quality of stone you want and really help you by providing verifiable data to back up the diamonds real characteristics.

I''m not sure if my ramblings will help you at all. I wouldn''t get hung up on H & A. Decide how much you can spend and get the best cut stone your budget will permit. Buy that stone from someone you trust. Make sure you can return the stone for a full refund if you are not pleased with the stone. And make sure you have a full trade up policy on the stone.

Good luck............

Rod,

On the contrary, I think a lot of the people here would agree with you. There are some lovely H&A stones but it’s definitely incorrect to say that ALL lovely stones display the same patterning. I also applaud your advice of choosing the dealer as carefully as you choose the stone. Starting out by building a relationship with a jeweler, either online or on the street, who does business in a style that works well for you goes a long way to making this a pleasant experience and drastically increases the chances that you will end up with the best stone for you.

Actually, the only thing I disagree with is your blanket disparagement of all jewelry stores who rent space in malls. Some are bad, some aren’t.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I agree with you Neil and Rod. Building a strong relationship and trusting your jeweler (on-line vendor/brick and mortar) is key to getting the right diamond at the right price. When purchasing any high end item, a consumer must feel comfortable with the salesperson and know that they will be there down the road for questions and service. It''s definately a two way street and mutual respect goes a long way.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/11/2006 4:01:00 PM
Author: solange
There appear to be very few H&A stones in larger sizes. On a Pricescope search, there were only a few in the 3 caratand above.
Is there a reason for this? Is it that there is so little demand for H&A stones in large siizes or does the cut not lend itself to H&A cutting?
Are there any H&A stones posted here in large sizes--3.5 carats or over?

WF has a 7+ ct ACA.