how does this diamond throw ya?

[finchuck]

DIAMOND CUT -------------------- Round Brilliant Cut
DIAMOND WEIGHT --------------- 1.02 CTS TDW
DIAMOND QUALITY -------------- H COLOR / SI2 CLARITY
DIAMOND DIMENSIONS ---------- 6.43 - 6.37 x 4.0 mm
DIAMOND DEPTH ---------------- 62.4 %
DIAMOND TABLE ---------------- 60.0 %
DIAMOND CROWN --------------- 15.4 %
DIAMOND PAVILION ------------- 43.5 %
DIAMOND GIRDLE --------------- THIN TO SL. THICK FACETED
DIAMOND CULET ---------------- NONE
DIAMOND FLUORESCENCE ----- NONE
SYMMETRY & POLISH ---------- GOOD

 

[Mara]

Where'd you find that one? Not good...the HCA only gave it a 4.4 which is nowhere close to a 'good' rating, and that depth and table combo doesn't look super impressive. It's too deep, esp considering that the diameter of the stone will make it look smaller than a 1c...so you are paying for a 1c total weight, but it will look more like a .95c stone.




Also the EGL cert only gives %'s which are nowhere near as accurate as Angles are. So the HCA is only trying to estimate what the stone could look like using the inaccurate %'s. In reality, that stone may score even worse on the HCA..say around 5 or so with the angles. From #'s I have plugged in in the past..seems that mostly the %'s only do a disservice to help mislead the customer.




I went back through your last couple of posts Fin...you had a pretty decent looking stone in your last post, what happened to that one? From what I can gather, you are trying to get something like a 1c on a really tight budget...is this right? Have you considered dropping the color down a bit to get a better cut? Maybe to I, SI2 or similar? The cut will make the stone appear whiter..so the color drop will not show up--from a bad cut H to a great cut I....or J even. It won't look different IMO.




Anyhow--let us know how we can help--and stay off eBay

 

[magna2]

I agree with Mara - this one is by no means a winner. You had identified much better stones in the past.

This one is a bit too deep. And if you are shooting for 60% table diamonds such as the 60:60 proportions, it is best to keep crown percentages 13% and under.

 

[finchuck]

Allrighty, thanks a lot guys. I don't understand how you determine the cut from all that information up there.

 

[Mara]

Fin, in the future you can use the Cut Advisor to help you also: click on Cut Advisor link at the top of this page and then plug in your #s. If you have %'s instead of angles for crown and pavilion, make sure to change the pulldown to %. Otherwise your results will be very inaccurate. The HCA operates on a scale of 1-10 though I have never seen someone post a diamond that scores over 6. That would be interesting. Anyway--if you want a well cut stone, focus on under 3.0 for the score, excellently cut stones would be under 2.0. Definitely stay away from anything over 4+ and I would even say 3+ would be questionable.




Good luck!

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 11/19/2003 1:22:47 PM finchuck wrote:





Allrighty, thanks a lot guys. I don't understand how you determine the cut from all that information up there.
----------------

Finchuck, no one "definitively" determines cut just from the specs......the eye should always be the final judge. Some stones have great specs on paper and yet they miss the mark on performance. However, the "stats" of a stone can help identify those diamonds that stand a reasonable chance of performing well and those that are less likely to perform well.

The sparkle factor of diamonds is dependent on how the facets are arranged in relation to one another.....almost like funhouse mirrors. Over the years, certain parameters have come to be regarded as the "sweet spot".....kind of like the center of a bulls-eye.....and those parameters suggest the stone is likely to perform well.

R/T from NiceIce have repeatedly posted those parameters, and I hope they won't mind my sharing them here......these are the specs you'd ideally like to stay within to maximize the likelihood of securing a well-cut diamond:

Ideal specs:/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

Total depth between 59 - 61.8%
Table diameter between 55 - 56%
Crown angle between 34.3 - 34.8 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees
Girdle: thin to medium, faceted or medium, faceted
Culet: GIA None or AGS Pointed
Polish: GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal
Symmetry: GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>/www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/3.gif[/img]>

As you can see, the stone you listed above is 62.4 depth....outside of the parameters. The table (at 60) is also waaaaaay outside of the parameters. That doesn't mean the stone may not be beautiful to your eye....it simply means that the stone is more likely to leak light (which detracts from sparkle), and the depth means that you're paying for carat weight that isn't seen in the diameter of the stone.....doesn't look as big as it should for the weight.

That's why folks are saying they wouldn't take this stone. You may see it and still feel it's a beautiful stone, and if the price is right (meaning it doesn't cost what a super-ideal stone costs) and the grading is correct (depending on which lab graded it), then you might still choose to consider it.

They are telling you that you can locate better cut stones out there than this....but it might be easier to help out if we knew your budget parameters and what size you'd like to hit.

You can get an I, SI1 at the carat mark that is extremely well-cut for about $4500-4800, just as a point of reference. That I stone will look WHITE because the superior cut masks the color. If your budget is less than that, then you need to determine what you want to compromise on....color, cut, clarity, or a combination of those.

Good luck, and let us know if we can help.

 

[finchuck]

Allright, I'm starting to understand, thanks a lot.

I have another question now that you mentioend how cut can change the color of a stone a bit.

What would you recommend all things considered equal: a diamond with an I color and a very good cut, or a diamond with a J color and an ideal cut?

I've been afraid to go beyond I color for fear of a yellow tint but should I go to J and get a better cut?

 

[spicolicpa]

Finn-\
Have you really looked hard into finding a well cut "almost ideal" in the .89 to .94 ct range. I betcha if you really looked hard you might be suprised at the values that exist.

But you are right in first determining what you are willing to accept in a stone so you can narrow down the search.

IE:
Color-
Ct.-
Cut-
Price-
Grader-GIA ect.

I found it easier once I got these #'s down to exacts like G,SI1,GIA, >90-.94 ...then I could search and call and actually get meaningful results and not get drowned.

"water water everywhere but...."...:O)

 

[Mara]

Fin that may be a hard choice...a very good cut I would face up whiter...I don't know if an excellent super duper cut J would really benefit much more on color modification. It also really depends on your eyes. I would probably take a J super duper cut because I am into the cut type of thing...and my eyes aren't that good anyway..I saw an old euro cut I in platinum and thought it looked pretty darn good. But also I think people in general don't tend to notice color hues of stones unless its super yellow. I used to have N diamond earrings and we thought they were H's! Not until I got my G stone did we notice..hey these look yellow! But no one else ever did. Perception.....




Nate posted some pix of his J SI stones in the Show me the Ring forum a while back, they looked pretty darn amazing to me, they were H&A from GOG's site. So if a J looked like that I would take it over a very good cut I anyday.

But it's totally a preference thing.

 

[aljdewey]

Fin, regarding your I vs. J question......a well-cut J will face-up white....the tint may only be vaguely visible from the side, and then not to everyone.




Honestly, I'd choose neither......and choose something else. I'd choose to move down in carat weight a bit and stick with superior cut and with I color or better.




Fin, here's the thing: Do you want this diamond to look like a 1 ct to your eye, or do you want it to look like a 1 ct on paper? There's a difference!




My point is this: She won't wear the grading report....she'll wear the diamond. Most people want to get a 1 ct because others they know have 1 cts and they want it to look comparable. Good news....most people who buy 1 ct buy stones of mediocre cut quality, so they don't look like 1 ct stones....they look smaller. That means you can buy a superior cut stone in the .85-.9x range and it will still LOOK bigger than other 1 ct. stones.




That's the path I'd follow......pick a stone just shy of a carat. Believe me, NO ONE will know the difference, and in fact, most people will think yours is the larger stone. Again, if you tell us what your ceiling is, we can help you find some.

 

[spicolicpa]

I did not know Pricescope was a full service diamond locating site.

"Ummm I would like fries with that G .94 SI1 combo....supersize-it!"

Just keep doing your homework and searching Finn and bounce what tickles your fancy here for a second-third----tenth opinion is my suggestion.

 

[Giangi]

It doesn't look that great to me. This is a steep/deep combo... I think it won't be very good looking. As someone else has suggested, you don't have to buy an ideal cut to get a great looking stone, but if you're looking at those famous 60:60, try to keep crown height lower than 13.5% and pavilion 43% or even a bit less. It will look great.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 11/19/2003 3:33:54 PM spicolicpa wrote:





I did not know Pricescope was a full service diamond locating site.


____________




Then perhaps we should add that to the growing list of things you don't know.




People here are more than willing to help others, providing those others aren't rude, offensive, and know how to be civil.