How does the real pigeon blood ruby should look like?

[dm-smith]

What do you PSers think pigeon blood ruby look like? I have seen a very large range of colors being referred as pigeon blood ruby. From a pinkish red to a near black red. Any opinion?

 

[demantoidz]

For me, the first step would be to look at rubies with the highest color gradings from labs, rather than sellers opinions. GRS is popular amongst sellers because their 'pigeon blood' designation is more lax than others, eg AGL's 'Classic Burma' and SSEF's 'pigeon blood'/ 'red of strong saturation'.
You would need to filter these rubies further as location, lighting and subjectivity are factors too.

Digitally, taking a look at high end auction pieces can help too, especially if you can find more realstic images/videos than the studio shots on the action sites. For example:

Sotheby's Jewels on Instagram: "This pair of Burmese rubies weigh over 4 carats each, perfectly matched in colour, of vivid red hue and excellent transparency. Tactile, ardent and reminiscent of burning fire, this pair of “pigeon’s blood” ruby earrin

1,895 likes, 20 comments - sothebysjewels on October 11, 2021: "This pair of Burmese rubies weigh over 4 carats each, perfectly matched in colour, of vivid red hue and excellent transparency. Tactile, ...".

www.instagram.com

Connie Luk on Instagram: "Set with an extraordinary pigeon blood red cushion-shaped ruby of Burma origin, weighing approximately 5.05 carats, within a heart-shaped diamond surround, to the pavé-set circular-cut diamond three-quarter hoop, mounted in

2,466 likes, 44 comments - connieluk_jewels on November 16, 2020: "Set with an extraordinary pigeon blood red cushion-shaped ruby of Burma origin, weighing approximately 5.05 carats, within a heart-shaped...".

www.instagram.com

As for my opinion, the bare minimum would be a strongly saturated, medium to medium-dark red with a slight purple modifier and strong fluorescence (if Burmese - not sure if other origins can count as PG according to stricter labs). I prefer a little silk too.

 

[VividRed]

Red of vivid saturation and medium tone. Quite rare, very expensive.

Most pigeon’s blood labelled rubies for sale are either too dark or not saturated enough, in my opinion

 

[demantoidz]

Red of vivid saturation and medium tone. Quite rare, very expensive.

Most pigeon’s blood labelled rubies for sale are either too dark or not saturated enough, in my opinion

True, I find some super high end rubies (in fact even the ring I posted above, if viewed on my PC which is less forgiving than my phone) to be a bit too dark. A more stringent definition would restrict to medium tone only.
Darker reflections should still be an attractive glowy red if that makes sense - silk can help with this.

 

[T L]

Well, the reddest Ruby I ever saw I was at the Smithsonian. It was a vivid pinkish red, neon, and remember that rubies also glow in sunlight due to the fluorescence they have.

This is the Carmen Lucia Ruby I saw at the Smithsonian, glows a neon pinkish red. You get the idea of the hue here, but imagine it glowing. All the traditional fire engine red rubies I’ve seen, have a more orange red to the hue.

Be careful of the term “pigeon blood.” It is a very commonly and loosely used by vendors.

 

[demantoidz]

Well, the reddest Ruby I ever saw I was at the Smithsonian. It was a vivid pinkish red, neon, and remember that rubies also glow in sunlight due to the fluorescence they have.

This is the Carmen Lucia Ruby I saw at the Smithsonian, glows a neon pinkish red. You get the idea of the hue here, but imagine it glowing. All the redder rubies I’ve seen, have a more orange read to the hue.

Be careful of the term “pigeon blood.” It is a very commonly and loosely used by vendors.

Gorgeous! I saved a pic you posted a while ago of a 7 (?) ct demantoid from the Smithsonian. Would love to go one day.

 

[T L]

Gorgeous! I saved a pic you posted a while ago of a 7 (?) ct demantoid from the Smithsonian. Would love to go one day.

The demantoid was 11 carats, sigh! This Ruby in person is a sight to behold though. I really don’t like 99% of rubies, but this is just top color. Elizabeth Taylor had a similar 8 carat Burmese ruby ring from Richard Burton. She said it was the most perfect colored gem she ever saw.

 

[icy_jade]

What do you PSers think pigeon blood ruby look like? I have seen a very large range of colors being referred as pigeon blood ruby. From a pinkish red to a near black red. Any opinion?

Too many labs have lax color gradings. I’ve seen too many stones from too many labs given trade desired names when they are definitely not the right color.

Imo should be vivid red with strong fluoro.

You can see the SSEF master stones here:

https://www.ssef.ch/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/SSEF_Pigeonblood_Royalblue_Criteria_2017_HK.pdf

 

[T L]

By the way, the term, “pigeon blood “is one of the worst metaphors to describe color. First of all it doesn’t even refer to the blood of a pigeon, but their Iris, and even that isn’t very red. The iris color even varies based on the species of pigeon. I have no idea where this term came from, but it’s ridiculous.

 

[demantoidz]

Too many labs have lax color gradings. Vivid red with strong fluoro

https://www.ssef.ch/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/SSEF_Pigeonblood_Royalblue_Criteria_2017_HK.pdf

SSEF is extremely strict with the 'red of strong saturation' designation. The Graff ruby itself only got red of medium strong saturation!
The report was oddly removed from the auction listing:.

https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2014/magnificent-jewels-ge1405/lot.470.html

But I had it saved:


Video for eyecandy: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bu6JUfnFtBf/

 

[VividRed]

I think @Bron357 ’s 1ct ruby is as close as any ruby will get to the “true” pigeon blood color.

Truly a marvel!

 

[T L]

this would be my favorite color

Too dark for me.

 

[VividRed]

this would be my favorite color

To each their own, but 90% of the stone is dark brown…?

The few visible red spots are indeed vivid red, if that’s what you meant?

 

[voce]

Pigeon blood is a very subjective term. To me, there is no ruby in the world that looks like the concept of "pigeon blood" in all light sources. Some light sources bring out too much pink fluorescence, and some are not bright enough to display the ruby to the best effect. In all honesty, I do not put any stock in the term "pigeon blood", except that the vendor wishes to denote a fine color red.

I don't consider any of the above cited examples apart from the SSEF reference stone (not even Bron's ruby) that is at the color quality of pigeon blood. Bron's ruby photographs as a little too pink for me to consider pigeon blood, the first Instagram demantoidz linked does not look saturated enough, while the second Instagram demantoidz linked did not have an even light return, so the crystal is too dark for me to consider it pigeon blood.

What people should be using to talk about color is AGL's system, using a NUMERICAL tone, description of secondary colors, and a NUMERICAL assessment of brilliancy. I don't believe I would ever call a dull stone that does not return light well to be pigeon blood.

 

[Lakefront]

I’d say vivid pure red, not too cool or too warm. No orange red or purplish pinks. Just red.

Long ago, I came across a dead pigeon on the street in New York and while it was sad and gross, it definitely did make me think how pigeon’s blood is an amazing shade of red.

 

[demantoidz]

Pigeon blood is a very subjective term. To me, there is no ruby in the world that looks like the concept of "pigeon blood" in all light sources. Some light sources bring out too much pink fluorescence, and some are not bright enough to display the ruby to the best effect. In all honesty, I do not put any stock in the term "pigeon blood", except that the vendor wishes to denote a fine color red.

I don't consider any of the above cited examples apart from the SSEF reference stone (not even Bron's ruby) that is at the color quality of pigeon blood. Bron's ruby photographs as a little too pink for me to consider pigeon blood, the first Instagram demantoidz linked does not look saturated enough, while the second Instagram demantoidz linked did not have an even light return, so the crystal is too dark for me to consider it pigeon blood.

What people should be using to talk about color is AGL's system, using a NUMERICAL tone, description of secondary colors, and a NUMERICAL assessment of brilliancy. I don't believe I would ever call a dull stone that does not return light well to be pigeon blood.

I agree with much of what you wrote, my point which I should have made clearer is that one can start with looking at rubies designated as PG by strict labs and sift from there based on objective and subjective variables. Indeed, one could filter til there is only one or no stone that fits the definition.

I thought part of the issue with lab gradings was that the lab situations are not necessarily going to be 1:1 with real life viewing. I don't know if AGL's system accounts for this to the degree that it should be held in extremely high regard. What do you think?
Gubelin has a new-ish numerical grading system as well, don't know how exactly how it works either.

 

[T L]

I think many labs cater to vendors over the consumer. There’s only so many “pigeon blood” rubies, that are more brown than red out there, before you start getting suspicious of their color grading. I trust labs more for treatments and determination that a stone is natural.

I’m not sure about SSEF since they were conservative grading the famed Graff ruby as noted in this thread. I don’t trust Gueblin at all because their idea of “vivid” is a very wide range of saturation to my eye. The AGL prestige color grading report (their most expensive report) is the only one that provides some scientific details about color. I’m unsure how accurate they are for rubies. GIA doesn’t provide much detail on color.

Rubies are some of the most difficult gems to purchase. Once you get past the myriad of treatments, and synthetics, you have to look at fine rubies in person to get an idea what a decent ruby looks like. Red stones are very subjective as well. Some people like orange reds snd others like pink reds. You also need to consider tone, location (Burma is the most valuable), as well.

I heard it took Richard Burton years to find the perfect ruby for Liz, I can understand why.

 

[Bron357]

It’s subjective in my opinion.
Having a lab cert saying “pigeon blood red” isn’t the be all and end all.
Unfortunately that “designation” seems to mean the price can go up up up. However even though many “say” that’s the top colour I think you should buy what pleases you.

 

[T L]

Since I've been sitting around drooling at this vendor's work, I happened upon this ring. I NEVER bought anything from her, and I don't know a thing about her, but I think this video shows the touch of blue that some of the finest Burmese gems have. I forgot to mention that. This blue sheen in fine rubies is very very rare.

Dianna Rae Jewelry on Instagram: "Burmese ruby, anyone? #yesplease"

49 likes, 6 comments - diannaraejewelry on March 21, 2018: "Burmese ruby, anyone? #yesplease".

www.instagram.com

 

[meely]

Since I've been sitting around drooling at this vendor's work, I happened upon this ring. I NEVER bought anything from her, and I don't know a thing about her, but I think this video shows the touch of blue that some of the finest Burmese gems have. I forgot to mention that. This blue sheen in fine rubies is very very rare.

Dianna Rae Jewelry on Instagram: "Burmese ruby, anyone? #yesplease"

49 likes, 6 comments - diannaraejewelry on March 21, 2018: "Burmese ruby, anyone? #yesplease".

www.instagram.com

No expert but to me that stone is lacking in transparency? My eyes aren’t finely honed enough to see the blue.

 

[T L]

No expert but to me that stone is lacking in transparency? My eyes aren’t finely honed enough to see the blue.

It has silk. I was strictly looking at color, not transparency.

 

[meely]

It has silk. I was strictly looking at color, not transparency.

Got you. Still can’t see the blue I need to look at more rubies obviously! It’s interesting to me that in a blue sapphire silk seems to my eyes to be desirable yet in a ruby not so much. Not to hijack the thread but if you have any more rubies photos with blue in I would be fascinated to see.

 

[T L]

Got you. Still can’t see the blue I need to look at more rubies obviously! It’s interesting to me that in a blue sapphire silk seems to my eyes to be desirable yet in a ruby not so much. Not to hijack the thread but if you have any more rubies photos with blue in I would be fascinated to see.

The Carmen Lucia ruby I posted at the top has a blue sheen too, I just thought this video showed it better. LOL, I guess not.

I personally prefer blue reds, if that makes sense. I'm not an orange red kind of ruby person. The famous sunrise ruby is an orange red from the photos posted, still highly coveted for it's size, color, and Burmese origin, but I think the blue reds are far rarer.

 

[meely]

The Carmen Lucia ruby I posted at the top has a blue sheen too, I just thought this video showed it better. LOL, I guess not.

I personally prefer blue reds, if that makes sense. I'm not an orange red kind of ruby person. The famous sunrise ruby is an orange red, still highly coveted for it's size, color, and Burmese origin, but I think the blue reds are far rarer.

I wouldn’t kick the sunrise ruby out of bed but yes I agree it’s a totally different look. It almost looks like a fire opal in that photo. I think it must be the pinkness in some rubies that gives them the blue undertone, although I was struggling with instagram ring you posted I can see it in some photos of Elizabeth’s Taylor’s ruby ring.

 

[T L]

Elizabeth Taylor's ruby ring needs a photo in this thread, or two!!

 

[JewelledEscalators]

I wouldn’t kick the sunrise ruby out of bed

I wouldn't either

 

[JewelledEscalators]

Elizabeth Taylor's ruby ring needs a photo in this thread, or two!!

YES YES YES!!!

But not enough of it in circulation.

 

[dm-smith]

What is this orange red and blue red? Does anyone has an example of it? Side by side pic will be amazing

 

[VividRed]

The Carmen Lucia ruby I posted at the top has a blue sheen too, I just thought this video showed it better. LOL, I guess not.

I personally prefer blue reds, if that makes sense. I'm not an orange red kind of ruby person. The famous sunrise ruby is an orange red from the photos posted, still highly coveted for it's size, color, and Burmese origin, but I think the blue reds are far rarer.

I think that is an unfair picture of the Sunrise ruby, I like to think it looks more like this:

 

[T L]

I think that is an unfair picture of the Sunrise ruby, I like to think it looks more like this:

That’s still orange red to my eye. It might be way more attractive in person. Some gems are unphotogenic. That being said, like everyone else, I wouldn’t kick it out of bed!