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How do you know if you have a fireball diamond?

Nardil

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
35
Hi everyone,

even though I've purchased my diamond now I still can't get of this forum. I guess I'm hooked :)

I've seen many posts where members call their diamonds fireballs and I'm really curious if there is any way to know wether you have a "fireball" or not? :D As you might understand I am a complete beginner and I don't have many diamonds to compare with.
 

Nardil

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
35
So, what I mean is, is there any way for me to know if I've bought a good stone without getting ASET-images or similar?

In some lightings I find that it is very bright/has a lot of fire ect. and in some lightings it just looks dark. Does a well cut diamond look good in all lightings?

bild_1.jpg

bild_2.jpg
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
5,543
If this James Allen 0.37ct E-V2 round is your diamond - http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.37-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-529953 - then, no, it likely is not a "fireball." [I understand "fireball" to refer to a diamond throwing lots of colored light]

The JA diamond is what is termed a 60/60 cut (more here: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond), which when well-cut, like yours, are beautiful diamonds but tend to favor brilliance (white light return) over fire (colored light return) as compared to Tolkowsky cuts (https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond)
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,440
Nardil|1446469730|3944708 said:
So, what I mean is, is there any way for me to know if I've bought a good stone without getting ASET-images or similar?

In some lightings I find that it is very bright/has a lot of fire ect. and in some lightings it just looks dark. Does a well cut diamond look good in all lightings?

No diamond can break light up into the colors of the spectrum under all types of lighting.
It's just physics and optics, not anything inferior about a diamond's cut.

For a diamond to disperse light it has to be one or more relatively small pointed sources like a halogen bulb in the ceiling, fluorescent tubes high overhead, or the sun (which is not small but effective small because it's so far away).
No matter how bright it is the light from a large even source like an overcast sky, or a large white ceiling being lit by lights in the room, produces no fire, hence less visible fire when looking at the top.

The better the cut the more light entering the top comes back out the top.
The worse the cut the more leaks out the sides and bottom.

Besides breaking up light diamonds also behave as mirrors.
Wear a yellow shirt and you'll see yellow in your diamond.
Be in a car with a dark ceiling and your diamond will look dark.
 

Nardil

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
35
marymm|1446476670|3944723 said:
If this James Allen 0.37ct E-V2 round is your diamond - http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.37-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-529953 - then, no, it likely is not a "fireball." [I understand "fireball" to refer to a diamond throwing lots of colored light]

The JA diamond is what is termed a 60/60 cut (more here: https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/60-60-proportioned-diamond), which when well-cut, like yours, are beautiful diamonds but tend to favor brilliance (white light return) over fire (colored light return) as compared to Tolkowsky cuts (https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/tolkowsky-ideal-cut-diamond)

Yes, that is my diamond :) I do experience that it return more white light than colored light but as this is the only diamond that I've inspected closely I wasn't sure what to expect. When I use the HCA-tool it grades the fire as excellent though, maybe it just passes the limit for being excellent? It scores 1.5 so its not a very low number..

Where I live white light is preferred over colored light but since I discovered this forum I've started to enjoy all the colors, it is so beautiful. Maybe I have to buy one more :angel:
 

Nardil

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
35
kenny|1446479985|3944750 said:
Nardil|1446469730|3944708 said:
So, what I mean is, is there any way for me to know if I've bought a good stone without getting ASET-images or similar?

In some lightings I find that it is very bright/has a lot of fire ect. and in some lightings it just looks dark. Does a well cut diamond look good in all lightings?

No diamond can break light up into the colors of the spectrum under all types of lighting.
It's just physics and optics, not anything inferior about a diamond's cut.

For a diamond to disperse light it has to be one or more relatively small pointed sources like a halogen bulb in the ceiling, fluorescent tubes high overhead, or the sun (which is not small but effective small because it's so far away).
No matter how bright it is the light from a large even source like an overcast sky, or a large white ceiling being lit by lights in the room, produces no fire, hence less visible fire when looking at the top.

The better the cut the more light entering the top comes back out the top.
The worse the cut the more leaks out the sides and bottom.

Besides breaking up light diamonds also behave as mirrors.
Wear a yellow shirt and you'll see yellow in your diamond.
Be in a car with a dark ceiling and your diamond will look dark.

Yes it is true about the mirror effect, I think I see myself as a dark shadow in the diamond quite often. However, in some bright light it looks dark regardless.

bild__12_.jpg

I read somewhere that even bad cut diamonds will look good in certain light and the fact that my diamond looks dull in some lighting makes me nervous that I should have chosen a better one.
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
9,744
HI Nardil,
I just checked on all the GIA reports here in the office- I did not find a "fireball" among them :naughty:

Seriously, the term itself is so vague it could refer to many diamonds regardless of how they exhibit Fire, in the gemological sense.
IN terms of fire, gemologically speaking- the size of the diamond has so much to do with this aspect.
The physical size of the facets on a .60ct- no matter how it's cut- are simply too small to return a lot of visible Fire events.

IN larger sizes, 60/60 stones can indeed produce a lot of fire.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
27,433
If you plan on buying another and want fire, I suggest an Old cut stone (like an OEC). They tend to have bigger facets so if
cut right the flashes of colors tend to be bigger and easier to see/catch. I have one that just loves to put on a show for me!
She likes to put off a lot of blue and purple flashes but will put out all colors depending on her mood. :sun: Old cuts
can be quite the show-offs if you ask me! :bigsmile: I know we have quite a few old diva stones on PS!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,440
Nardil|1446469730|3944708 said:
So, what I mean is, is there any way for me to know if I've bought a good stone without getting ASET-images or similar?


How do you know how well your diamond is cut?
Good question.
Usually we only go there before a purchase, but since you asked:

Since it's round you could plug four numbers from the lab grading report into the HCA.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
A score under 2.0 is best.
Next you could buy an Idealscope, though they work better on loose diamonds.
http://ideal-scope.com/?Ref=pricescope

Compare what you see to this chart.

http://ideal-scope.com/reference-chart-ideal-scope-images/



Another way to evaluate your diamond is to wear it into a jeweler that carries top cut like Hearts on Fire or Lazar Kaplan or Eightstar.
Slip the top-cut onto the finger next to your ring.
Try to get them away from those jewelry store lights that can make a lump of coal sparkle.
Put your hand over the diamonds or walk it over to a corner or outside in the shade if the jeweler allows it.

Another way is to 'buy' one of similar specs but of top cut.
Wear them both in many environments and compare.
Return it during the seller's full refund period, though you must ponder the ethics of this.
If you time it carefully you might even get the refund credited to your card during the same billing cycle.
You may justify it by the fact that there is a chance you'll like so much you'll keep it, but if you never try it there is zero chance you'd buy it.

Then again some people say, "All that matters is you love it."
I disagree since it may not be well-cut and look good to you only because you've never seen better.

idealscope_2.png
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
14,872
Nardil|1446469730|3944708 said:
Does a well cut diamond look good in all lightings?
Nope, there are some lighting conditions no diamond can do much under.
A well cut diamond will return more light in a wider range of lighting than one that is not well cut.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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Messages
33,852
Most fireball diamonds will have a small table with a high crown.
 

Nardil

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
35
Thank you for your answers everyone, very enlightening!

Rockdiamond|1446487136|3944789 said:
HI Nardil,
I just checked on all the GIA reports here in the office- I did not find a "fireball" among them :naughty:

Seriously, the term itself is so vague it could refer to many diamonds regardless of how they exhibit Fire, in the gemological sense.
IN terms of fire, gemologically speaking- the size of the diamond has so much to do with this aspect.
The physical size of the facets on a .60ct- no matter how it's cut- are simply too small to return a lot of visible Fire events.

IN larger sizes, 60/60 stones can indeed produce a lot of fire.

Hehehe maybe that is a term to add to the certificates, would make life easier for beginners like me :D

The size was an interesting aspect, haven't heard of that before! Since mine is only 0.37ct maybe it wouldn't be firey even with a "firey cut" then! Which would mean that I have to get one more :naughty:

tyty333|1446488378|3944800 said:
If you plan on buying another and want fire, I suggest an Old cut stone (like an OEC). They tend to have bigger facets so if
cut right the flashes of colors tend to be bigger and easier to see/catch. I have one that just loves to put on a show for me!
She likes to put off a lot of blue and purple flashes but will put out all colors depending on her mood. :sun: Old cuts
can be quite the show-offs if you ask me! :bigsmile: I know we have quite a few old diva stones on PS!

Oooooh I love OECs, ever since I saw autumngems OEC I've been drooling over them. Definitely time to make my FI understand that I actually need two diamonds!

Dancing Fire said:
Most fireball diamonds will have a small table with a high crown.

Definitely not mine then ::)

kenny said:
Nardil|1446469730|3944708 said:
So, what I mean is, is there any way for me to know if I've bought a good stone without getting ASET-images or similar?


How do you know how well your diamond is cut?
Good question.
Usually we only go there before a purchase, but since you asked:

Since it's round you could plug four numbers from the lab grading report into the HCA.
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca
A score under 2.0 is best.
Next you could buy an Idealscope, though they work better on loose diamonds.
http://ideal-scope.com/?Ref=pricescope

Compare what you see to this chart.

http://ideal-scope.com/reference-chart-ideal-scope-images/



Another way to evaluate your diamond is to wear it into a jeweler that carries top cut like Hearts on Fire or Lazar Kaplan or Eightstar.
Slip the top-cut onto the finger next to your ring.
Try to get them away from those jewelry store lights that can make a lump of coal sparkle.
Put your hand over the diamonds or walk it over to a corner or outside in the shade if the jeweler allows it.

Another way is to 'buy' one of similar specs but of top cut.
Wear them both in many environments and compare.
Return it during the seller's full refund period, though you must ponder the ethics of this.
If you time it carefully you might even get the refund credited to your card during the same billing cycle.
You may justify it by the fact that there is a chance you'll like so much you'll keep it, but if you never try it there is zero chance you'd buy it.

Then again some people say, "All that matters is you love it."
I disagree since it may not be well-cut and look good to you only because you've never seen better.

It scores 1.5 at the HCA so I guess it is ok.

I would love to compare it to a well cut diamond, just need to find a good jeweller. Unfortunately, in sweden most people dont seem to care about cut, here it is mostly clarity and color that matters.

Karl_K said:
Nardil|1446469730|3944708 said:
Does a well cut diamond look good in all lightings?


Nope, there are some lighting conditions no diamond can do much under.
A well cut diamond will return more light in a wider range of lighting than one that is not well cut.

I realize that I need to see more beautiful diamonds to ease my mind :D
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
33,440
Welcome to our crazy world. :wavey:

Don't worry; The obsession stops when you die.
 

motownmama

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
8,221
If people mean color flashes, then you've got your answer.But, I love white flashes too - be sure to keep your diamond scrupulously clean - many of us clean our daily or even more :geek:
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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Messages
33,852
When all the people in the room is wearing sun glasses... :sun: :lol:
 

Nardil

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 26, 2015
Messages
35
kenny|1446505282|3944923 said:
Welcome to our crazy world. :wavey:

Don't worry; The obsession stops when you die.

Thank you! I love it and I don't understand why my FI gives me a worried look everytime I visit PS :bigsmile:

motownmama said:
If people mean color flashes, then you've got your answer.But, I love white flashes too - be sure to keep your diamond scrupulously clean - many of us clean our daily or even more :geek:

I am relieved to hear that it is completely normal to bring a polishing cloth everywhere you go!

Dancing Fire said:
When all the people in the room is wearing sun glasses... :sun: :lol:

:lol: I guess I have to wait for the summer and then pretend..
 
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