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How do u find this diamond?

This should help you, Roberto. Start by limiting your search to GIA Excellent cut only (preferably excellent cut, symmetry, and polish). I am giving you parameters below that will help you find the better of the GIA Excellent cut stones.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
 
Wink- by splicing the post about whats to blame for all the deeper diamonds on the market, you've twisted my meaning.
I'm well familiar with GIA EX cut grade. Yes there are some stones in the grade I'm not fond of.
But lately the type of RBC stones I do love are simply not being cut.
Lately the vast majority of GIA ex cut grade stones are cut too deep. I've been talking about this in threads devoted to the subject over the past few days.

Diamondseekers list is a fairly safe way to steer folks towards a great cut. But it leaves some of the best stones out.
But more to the point please speak for yourself and don't make implications about what I might love or recommend.
I have also been teaching people about diamonds for a long time my friend. As long as you. I would hesitate before calling something a lifeless lump of carbon that I had not personally inspected. Even a deep stone can have beauty. NOT THAT IM RECCOMENDING DEEP STONES. You have your ways, I have mine. If you'd like to check out our site there's plenty of info there as well.
Peace
 
Rockdiamond - what is your site?
 
Thank you so much guys for the valuable inputs you have given me.

I have gained a lot from the Opinions you all have shared about the 2 diamonds. :)

It is really helpful. Tks again!!
 
Rockdiamond said:
I would hesitate before calling something a lifeless lump of carbon that I had not personally inspected. Even a deep stone can have beauty. NOT THAT IM RECCOMENDING DEEP STONES. You have your ways, I have mine. If you'd like to check out our site there's plenty of info there as well.
Peace
Click to expand...
David
Why even bother to look at a 63.9% stone when you know that you are losing a lot in diameter?
 
David, I did not splice your post. I gave it in precise order of appearance. I’ve removed the splice here.

Rockdiamond said:
Dancing Fire said:
WOW!! ..63.9% is still considered as a VG cut??.. GIA is allowing cutters to get away with murder!.
Click to expand...

DF- I think this places blame in the wrong spot.
Click to expand...

Link to the post.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-u-find-this-diamond.231928/#post-4183099

I am reacting to the insinuation that DF is wrong in blaming GIA’s permissiveness. The main people who benefit from such permissiveness are jewelers who will hoodwink consumers. I’ve fought against that all my life and feel strongly about it.

It makes my heart heavy that the 60-60 you love are not being cut but do you realize that this is a by-product of the very same thing? When GIA opened the door in 2006 for factories to keep so much weight in steeper and deeper angles and still call it EX or VG (here we are back to DF’s position) those factories stopped cutting 60-60s. Why would they? It’s not nearly as profitable as keeping more weight in stones by using the deeper angles.

In that sense we are professionally disappointed about the same thing, but I don’t know if you realize it.

Wink
 
Dancing Fire said:
David
Why even bother to look at a 63.9% stone when you know that you are losing a lot in diameter?
Click to expand...
DF - remember the rules. If someone posts a 63.9% stone you can come out and trash the particular stone. I have to make "general" comments.
Luckily you, and others like you will be honest about a given stone so the novice reader gets a more balanced view.
 
Wink- I'm really not trying to quibble with you my friend.
My post pointed out that cutters need to use all kinds of rough. The deeper cuts, which we all agree, are giving buyers smaller diamonds for the weight.
But it's necessary to run a business in a manner that produces profit.
In easense the deeper stones squeaking into GIA EX cut grade are helping to pay for Super Ideals and whatever 60/60 are cut.
This forum really does help folks avoid some pitfalls. But every stone can't be cut to the level of perfection we both love. Even if we might not select the same stone as our favorite.
Both of us use our skills to make sure our buyers get amazing makes. That's why your clients love you and hopefully I'm as lucky.
 
Rockdiamond said:
Wink- I'm really not trying to quibble with you my friend.

My post pointed out that cutters need to use all kinds of rough. The deeper cuts, which we all agree, are giving buyers smaller diamonds for the weight.

But it's necessary to run a business in a manner that produces profit.

In easense the deeper stones squeaking into GIA EX cut grade are helping to pay for Super Ideals and whatever 60/60 are cut.

This forum really does help folks avoid some pitfalls. But every stone can't be cut to the level of perfection we both love. Even if we might not select the same stone as our favorite.

Both of us use our skills to make sure our buyers get amazing makes. That's why your clients love you and hopefully I'm as lucky.
Click to expand...

Rock, about this.

the deeper stones squeaking into GIA EX cut grade are helping to pay for Super Ideals and whatever 60/60 are cut.
Click to expand...

Normal factory floors do not produce Super Ideals. They plan and cut some Tolkowsky makes, which might be termed Ideals, but the term Super Ideal implies dedicated higher precision, removed from the normal assembly line process. Even still, among that handful of dedicated fine-make operations, not all are equally capable. I want to be sure we are not lumping different processes together.

Regarding normal factory assembly lines, the ONLY reason they plan and cut such deep stones is because GIA rewards them stones with high grades. If GIA tightened their standards the factories would adapt and the number of stones that consumers can be hoodwinked with would be reduced.

For that matter, how is cutting deep suddenly the only way manufacturers can make a profit? My cutters built their business by dedicating themselves to the very highest tier of Super Ideal, so I disagree that cutting bottom-feeders is the only way producers can produce profit. The way things stand, I am sure it brings them MORE profit though.

When a diamond is planned by a manufacturer to hit a carat weight mark which reduces its beauty, and that diamond is sold labeled with a top cut grade like “EX” or “VG,” despite being clearly reduced in spread and brightness, I believe it presents a very poor value to the public.

Wink
 
Agree with Wink and DF. 63.9 % Depth is excessive resulting in loss of outer dimensionality, and more importantly, light performance. GIA's grade of 'very good' is better interpreted as 'not the best'.

Wink's citing of 68% of the rounds being GIA Ex is an indication of how manufacturers are strongly targeting the top GIA grade. It has become an expectation of the modern consumer market. VG and G were much more the norm 10-15 years ago before GIA began issuing cut grades in 2005.

And yes, Si1 is a grade that encompasses some diamonds that are hazy due to clouds and other issues. You should be aware of that and inspect it carefully when you receive it. Better yet, have an experienced independent gemologist evaluate it. It can be a subtle factor and easily missed by someone not experienced at looking at diamonds. If the report on an Si1 says under comments "clarity grade based on clouds not shown" that is an indication of possible haziness.
 
GUYS WE ALL AGREE 63.9 IS TOO DEEP - K?
STOP TRYING To IMPLY THAT I DISAGREE
 
Wink- in case you forgot I also carry CBI diamonds. I have spend a lot of time around diamond cutters and factories in my life. My assumptions are based on my experience- I'll ask Yoram and a few other friends to confirm.
My point was that specialty cutters can not buy diamonds in bulk like the factories cutting the majority of diamonds on the market- including the crop of 63+depth stones. So cutters like Paul and Yoram need to buy downstream and likely from rcompanies cutting the deeper stones, or other companies related to them.
Calling these companies "greedy cutters" overlooks the realities of the business. Everyone needs to find a way to stay alive in business. Or they go out of business.
Wink- at this point in time the diamond business is not nearly as profitable for the big cutters. They are all struggling. We need them- even if we don't buy from them.
 
Tophat1 said:
Rockdiamond - what is your site?
Click to expand...
HI Tophat- there's a link in my signature.

Bryan- we both agree SI clarity diamonds need to be evaluated in person- and by an expert if possible.
But the bottom line about clarity is each person needs to "approve" their own diamond. What's eye clean to you many not be eye clean to someone half your age.
If there's an aspect so subtle that only an expert can see it, it would seem to indicate the "problem" is not that severe.
Given the sheer number of diamonds in the world, sure there's an SI1 which is cloudy due to the clouds. But it's the exception rather than the rule.
Many times a cloud which is described in the legend as "clouds not shown" means it will be difficult to spot it with a loupe. Meaning it's not going to have a visual impact to the naked eye.
As someone who buys a LOT of SI diamonds- my best suggestion is not to rule out any SI stone based on the GIA plot, or description of claritycharacteristics. The stone itself has to tell the story. Sometimes a cloud is way better than a crystal.

About those "greedy diamond cutters"
My impression is that right now, the business is in a place it's never been before.
A lot of companies in business today are hanging on...by a thread in many cases.
We all agree that a lot of the diamonds being cut today are "weight savers"
Another aspect is that it seems as though India has pretty much cornered the market.
I understand that buying rough in nearly impossible. Partly due to the Indian government allowing low-interest loans to major diamond cutters to give them an advantage in the world market.
Plus, the real price paid by consumers, as compared to "wholesale" costs is likely lower than ever.
So we have, at one end, a cornered market- and at the other end, a large percentage of the business going to sellers that never invest in a diamond until they sell it. That puts cutters in a very difficult position.
Anyway, it's a lot more complicated than just "greedy cutters"
AND- those of us who adore specialty cut stones- be they super ideal, vintage style, etc- we're all at risk of not seeing new goods if our cutters can't get the rough they need.
 
Rockdiamond said:
HI Tophat- there's a link in my signature.
Click to expand...

Signatures?! I had no idea.....must not be visible from the mobile version of the site.

Thanks! I'll find one of those computer thingies and check it out.
 
Rockdiamond said:
I have spend a lot of time around diamond cutters and factories in my life. My assumptions are based on my experience- I'll ask Yoram and a few other friends to confirm.

My point was that specialty cutters can not buy diamonds in bulk like the factories cutting the majority of diamonds on the market- including the crop of 63+depth stones. So cutters like Paul and Yoram need to buy downstream and likely from rcompanies cutting the deeper stones, or other companies related to them.

Calling these companies "greedy cutters" overlooks the realities of the business. Everyone needs to find a way to stay alive in business. Or they go out of business.

Wink- at this point in time the diamond business is not nearly as profitable for the big cutters. They are all struggling. We need them- even if we don't buy from them.
Click to expand...

David, I appreciate what you are saying. But who would you ask to buy those swindled stones? I refuse to sell poor value to my clients in order to “save” a business. I don't believe you would either.

I know other sellers will. But not telling the customer a 1-carat diamond he or she is buying only spreads like a 90 pointer, so he or she will stay ignorantly happy, doesn’t make it right. If GIA would simply introduce some consumer-protection revisions I believe the big mining houses and factories are vast enough to adapt, and everyone would benefit. They surely stepped in to protect consumers from man-made-diamonds. How is this any different? Man is MAKING those scandalous steep-deeps. Where is the protection?

You say we need big cutters so we must accept their 63+depth output. Well, if we must accept it, I say such output should be receiving the lowest grades, not the highest.

Wink
 
Wink, I'm not arguing against the fact that it's negative for the folks who don't find the right dealers and end up buying stones neither of us would ever offer to our clients.
Nor would I dispute that there should be vast improvements to the GIA cut grade at this point, especially looking at the statistics.
I will mention this to my customer service rep over there- she's a sweetheart.
Not that it's going to make any sort of difference.
As far as who would/should buy the super deep stones?
In my opinion, every single person buying a diamond should do it from me, you or Bryan. Then we KNOW they will get a well cut stone.
Unfortunately, none of us holds a significant percentage of the total diamond market to effect massive change.
I think Bryan, yourself and I are all doing at least a little bit of good by taking time to talk about cut here on PS.
That and all three of us doing what it takes to actually offer real, non virtual diamonds on the internet. That's the way to protect your clients. Buy the super well cut desirable stones and put them in your safe to be offered exclusively by you. I don't know if folks understand just how hard it is for a company to carry their own diamonds today. Having a buyer with great eyes was always key to the diamond business, and it still is for us.
We can't control the market as a whole- there's other issues. I look at the sites selling diamonds and see aspects I disagree with. Sites publish cut grades for fancy shapes, for example.
If GIA could get RBC cut grade adjusted, it would really be great. I don't have high hopes.
 
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Tophat1 said:
Signatures?! I had no idea.....must not be visible from the mobile version of the site.

Thanks! I'll find one of those computer thingies and check it out.
Click to expand...
David Friedlander
President- Diamonds by Lauren/Rock Diamond Corp- We now carry the Octavia!
http://diamondsbylauren.com
 
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