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How do I search for well cut stones online?

8ullZ3y3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
5
How do I search for a well cut stone, similar to Hearts and arrows or as close as can be to save on price?
I've got a price of a Diamond for 6300 gbp F, VS1, 1 carat, ex cut, ex polish and vg symmetry, fluorescence is none also with the wedding band being thrown in.
All the diamonds look the same on James Allen, and Bluenile. How do I decipher a stone with good brilliance, fire and overall sparkle?
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,551
Do a search on the Pricescope "SEARCH". Be sure to put the HCA grade set to "EXCELLENT". That handles a large number of issues automatically when it comes to potential light performance. Also, se the table limit to 58 (some might say 59) and the depth limit to 62. limit the amount of UV fluorescence to slight or medium is common advice. Check off "GIA 3EX" and you will be set for quite decent cutting and light behavior regardless of color or clarity ranges. You should choose those, as well, of course so you limit the results to a reasonable number.

Do a few searches with slight variations, such as budget limits and weight ranges, to help target the zone which suits you.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,110
Google is showing 6,300 GBP = $8,748 USD. Is that true diamond spending money? Or do we need to hold 20-25% back for VAT & duties?

Capture.PNG

Assuming you can spend it all, and wanted H&A stones, here are 3 really good options:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare/?idnos=4340611,4356741,4356734

The 0.994 is really special. First it measures out like a 1 carat stone, but you don't get hit with that 1 carat "magic weight" price premium. Secondly, it has medium blue fluor (MBF), which is a super rare bird for WF stones and will make many people here jealous. More than being rare, MBF stones trade for a discount which help make this stone an even better deal. Honestly, I think you will be hard pressed to beat this deal. Obviously check with WF to make sure it's eye clean and there are no transparency issues with the MBF, but I don't anticipate problems and the WF site says it's eye clean. But that's a thing I always like to confirm.

FYI, because of the MBF this stone misses WF's prestigious A Cut Above (ACA) designation. But it does make the Expert Select (ES) designation. Great part about the ACA, ES & PS (premium select) lines is that they are all owned, vetted & analyzed in-house by WF and come with their very generous lifetime trade policy that only requires you trade for a stone of equal or greater value.

While the trade policy may not seem important now, it's not uncommon for women to want an upgrade later in life and this could save you a few bucks. Or maybe you want to boost color or clarity later, then this provides you an easy way to do so. Or heck, maybe you guys decide you can live with H color so you swap it out with a bigger stone. Just so many possibilities.

When I bought my wife's stone (H-VS2 w/ MBF) I used a different H&A vendor, but their trade policy isn't as generous. My thoughts was "one & done". Now I realize there will be an upgrade later, it's just a matter of when and if she wants to keep or trade the stone in.

Let me know your thoughts, and we can adjust the search to fit your needs & preferences.
 

8ullZ3y3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
5
Hi Sledge,

That is a very nice stone and I like it a lot. Also budget wise I would like to keep to a max of around 5500 GBP which is around 8000 USD including the 20% for vat and duties. Since I will also have to buy a band as well at some stage which will be another 1000 GBP roughly depending on the band.

But I do really like that stone bit it pushes the price to around 8200 USD with my calculations taking into account the 20% vat and that's also without a setting :(
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,110
Thanks for the additional feedback. I will tweak search parameters and see what other options I can find.

In the interim, here are my suggestions:

1. Contact WF and put that 0.994 on reserve. This lasts 48 hours and costs you ZERO dollars. We’re going to learn a lot in that time and I have a feeling that stone may come back into play. If it does, I don’t want a lurker to swipe it from underneath you. This frequently happens with stones we recommend. It’s a rare enough bird we will have a very tough time replicating so I’m trying to hedge your risk a bit. If I’m totally wrong you can cancel or simply let the reserve expire. No harm, no foul.

2. Since you found a stone that meets budget, please post the lab report. Also a web link so we can view the photos and/or video. We can critique the stone so you have a better idea on the cut quality. At the least we will be moving in a direction that gets you to a decision point.
 

8ullZ3y3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
5
Yes I can. I'll attach the certificate image but I haven't seen the diamond in person and may not be able to. But it looks to be good value for money for what is being offered. For the price of 6300 gbp it will be the stone within a platinum solitaire custom setting as well as a platinum half diamond wedding band.

IMG-20210501-WA0016.jpg
 

Txborn79

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
297
Yes I can. I'll attach the certificate image but I haven't seen the diamond in person and may not be able to. But it looks to be good value for money for what is being offered. For the price of 6300 gbp it will be the stone within a platinum solitaire custom setting as well as a platinum half diamond wedding band.

IMG-20210501-WA0016.jpg

The cutter cut this deep to hit the 1ct mark so it actually faces up mallet than a well cut diamond. You would be paying for something you can’t see so I would pass on this one.
 

8ullZ3y3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
5
The cutter cut this deep to hit the 1ct mark so it actually faces up mallet than a well cut diamond. You would be paying for something you can’t see so I would pass on this one.

I see what your saying but if you consider what I'm getting the stone for would it be worth it? From 6300 GBP if you remove 20% vat which leaves 5250 subtract another 1000 GBP for a diamond wedding band custom made, as well another 600 for the setting both in platinum which leaves around 3650 GBP for the stone. Which seems like a very good price unless my calculations are off.
 

munchee

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Feb 12, 2011
Messages
616
I see what your saying but if you consider what I'm getting the stone for would it be worth it? From 6300 GBP if you remove 20% vat which leaves 5250 subtract another 1000 GBP for a diamond wedding band custom made, as well another 600 for the setting both in platinum which leaves around 3650 GBP for the stone. Which seems like a very good price unless my calculations are off.


If you’re looking for a diamond which seems have a good price within your budget, this stone fits the criteria. But if you’re looking for a well cut diamond, this is not it. Those are 2 different questions. Whether or not the difference in cut is something you can appreciate is totally personal preference.
 

John Pollard

Rough_Rock
Staff member
Premium
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
77
How do I search for a well cut stone, similar to Hearts and arrows or as close as can be to save on price?
I've got a price of a Diamond for 6300 gbp F, VS1, 1 carat, ex cut, ex polish and vg symmetry, fluorescence is none also with the wedding band being thrown in.
All the diamonds look the same on James Allen, and Bluenile. How do I decipher a stone with good brilliance, fire and overall sparkle?

Hello @8ullZ3y3 . Welcome to PriceScope.

You are getting help from the community, which is one of this website’s best features.

We designed a page to help guide newcomers with precisely the question you have asked. Perhaps you can take a few moments to read down these paragraphs.


Best wishes!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,110
Many of the proportions work for this stone; however, the crown is too steep @ 36.5. There are a couple of things I am factoring in when looking at this cert. One of those things is GIA gross rounding.

What I mean by this is a round diamond has 8 crown & 8 pavilion angles. Yet when we look at the GIA lab report, you see a single value for each. What happens is the lab measures each angle and then averages them together. AGS also does this. However, GIA takes an additional step and rounds crown angles to the nearest 0.5 degree and pavilion angles to the nearest 0.2 degrees.

Jumping back to the diamond at hand. You are already on the fringe at 36.5/40.6. Now imagine if one of those 8 actual values ends up resulting in a combo like 37/40.8. While the grossly rounded 36.5/40.6 may work with great symmetry, the 37/40.8 is going to be a problem. The problem is without a detailed SARIN report, I don't know the actual values nor how they align with one another. So there is more risk of a stone on the fringe having issues.

To add complication to this particular stone, I also noticed it only has very good symmetry. Now we are beginning to compound problems. Sometimes when you have borderline situations, good symmetry can help make it work. Unfortunately, this stone only has very good symmetry as opposed to excellent. So now I have two factors of risk involved.

A way to alleviate this concern would be the use of advanced images. Using an ASET or idealscope, we could identify where the stone may or may not be leaking. Basically it would give us an insight to how those angles are really playing out and how they will affect light performance.

So if you feel this stone "is the one" you could always order an ASET or IS scope, and take with you to the local shop and examine the stone to see how it compares.

FYI, attached is an HCA score for the stone in question. Keep in mind, HCA is a prediction tool based on the exact data from the lab reports. In other words, it ignores gross rounding and also minor facets. So it's useful in short listing stones, but isn't the final word.

With that said, you will see it scores a 2.4. Not terrible. Recommended value is 0-1 for pendants & earrings and 1-2 for rings, with up to 3 possibly working with H&A symmetry. We know this stone doesn't have excellent symmetry, let alone H&A symmetry.

Also, you will notice the light return, fire & scintillation only score very good. When proportions are more complimentary these values will read as excellent instead. And because the stone was cut to hit the magic 1 carat weight mark instead of beauty, you are seeing it sizes small for the spread. This makes sense, as it's too deep & carrying extra weight in the vertical plane.

For grins, theoretical weight is: 6.37*6.31*4.00*0.0061 = 0.981 carats

No stone hits perfect theoretical weight. And while I do not feel 0.02 carats is much weight to "cheat" it sure was convenient how it hit exactly 1.00.


Capture1.PNG

Capture2.PNG
 

8ullZ3y3

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 4, 2021
Messages
5
Many of the proportions work for this stone; however, the crown is too steep @ 36.5. There are a couple of things I am factoring in when looking at this cert. One of those things is GIA gross rounding.

What I mean by this is a round diamond has 8 crown & 8 pavilion angles. Yet when we look at the GIA lab report, you see a single value for each. What happens is the lab measures each angle and then averages them together. AGS also does this. However, GIA takes an additional step and rounds crown angles to the nearest 0.5 degree and pavilion angles to the nearest 0.2 degrees.

Jumping back to the diamond at hand. You are already on the fringe at 36.5/40.6. Now imagine if one of those 8 actual values ends up resulting in a combo like 37/40.8. While the grossly rounded 36.5/40.6 may work with great symmetry, the 37/40.8 is going to be a problem. The problem is without a detailed SARIN report, I don't know the actual values nor how they align with one another. So there is more risk of a stone on the fringe having issues.

To add complication to this particular stone, I also noticed it only has very good symmetry. Now we are beginning to compound problems. Sometimes when you have borderline situations, good symmetry can help make it work. Unfortunately, this stone only has very good symmetry as opposed to excellent. So now I have two factors of risk involved.

A way to alleviate this concern would be the use of advanced images. Using an ASET or idealscope, we could identify where the stone may or may not be leaking. Basically it would give us an insight to how those angles are really playing out and how they will affect light performance.

So if you feel this stone "is the one" you could always order an ASET or IS scope, and take with you to the local shop and examine the stone to see how it compares.

FYI, attached is an HCA score for the stone in question. Keep in mind, HCA is a prediction tool based on the exact data from the lab reports. In other words, it ignores gross rounding and also minor facets. So it's useful in short listing stones, but isn't the final word.

With that said, you will see it scores a 2.4. Not terrible. Recommended value is 0-2, with up to 3 possibly working with H&A symmetry. We know this stone doesn't have excellent symmetry, let alone H&A symmetry.

Also, you will notice the light return, fire & scintillation only score very good. When proportions are more complimentary these values will read as excellent instead. And because the stone was cut to hit the magic 1 carat weight mark instead of beauty, you are seeing it sizes small for the spread. This makes sense, as it's too deep & carrying extra weight in the vertical plane.

For grins, theoretical weight is: 6.37*6.31*4.00*0.0061 = 0.981 carats

No stone hits perfect theoretical weight. And while I do not feel 0.02 carats is much weight to "cheat" it sure was convenient how it hit exactly 1.00.


Capture1.PNG

Capture2.PNG

Thank you very much for this detailed reply. I have decided to go ahead with this stone late yesterday evening, and sacrificed my principles for better cut proportions for it to fit into my budget. This was a joint decision to make.

In your experience what would a stone like this be worth taking into account vat of 20%? I feel the price I got for it was fair.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,110
Thank you very much for this detailed reply. I have decided to go ahead with this stone late yesterday evening, and sacrificed my principles for better cut proportions for it to fit into my budget. This was a joint decision to make.

In your experience what would a stone like this be worth taking into account vat of 20%? I feel the price I got for it was fair.

You're welcome. Hope it helps.

I think the 20% VAT makes all the difference.

One example:
  • 0.994 WF PS stone = $6,669 wire
  • WF Valoria platinum solitaire = $849
  • WF Valoria platinum micropave wedding band = $946
  • Total for diamond, solitaire & wedding band = $8,464 USD
  • $8,464 USD / 1.39 exchange rate = 6,089 GBP
  • With VAT = 6,089 GBP x 1.20 = 7,307 GBP
Thing is I don't know is if the solitaire & wedding band I picked is similar to what you selected. I do know it's a lower priced. $849 + 946 = $1,795 USD for the set. Converted, the set is 1,291 GBP as opposed to your 1,600 GBP the local guy quoted you.

With WF I know the quality of their settings are top notch. Also the stones they use in the micropave wedding band will be super ideal melee to match the beauty of the center stone. Not every jeweler uses the higher quality melee. However, again, I don't know if the style fits your/her tastes & preferences.

So it's plausible maybe the jeweler "hid" some of his money for the stone in the cost of the setting by offering you a combination deal. I mention this because trying to find a 1ct F-VS1 for 3,650 GBP ($5,100 USD) is a feat. You really have to look at the combination of all elements, unless he gave you a buy price for the stone only then it becomes easier to shop for an equal diamond.

But honestly, you pulled the trigger, and this is water under the bridge. I am very curious to see the final product and hope you will share some pictures of the completed ring. I remember how jazzed I was when I was diamond hunting for my (now) wife. It's an exciting time. Best wishes to you & yours on this crazy journey we call life. :cool2:



 
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