How bad is hairline feathering eand minor bearding in the girdle?

[MelanieC]

I thought I was going to buy ring #2 in another post of mine, but someone made a comment about some items in the clarity representation.

Hairline feathers in girlde, minor bearding and minor details of posish and finish not shown.

This was the ring I was planning on getting. While not 100 % ideal by the standards of most on this board I was happy about it. Now I am not sure. This ring was very beautiful and and very clean!!

I also am going to Robbins Jewelers in Delaware tomorrow(part of the Robbins 8th & Walnut in Philadelphia. Delaware doesnt charge tax so I am saving over $400 dollars plus another $50 becuse she has a coupon if she reffers people. A friend of mine just bought a ring there that was a (they have definate ideal cuts there that are kept seperate from regular cuts) ideal cut that was about $5500 I with an SI1. I definately want H or better (preferably G) with an SI 1 or better (VS1 is what I prefer).

The diamond I was about to buy is
EGL Dated 6/26/01
Round brilliant 1.02 ct
G VS1
6.57 - 6.51 x 3.96mm
depth 60.6%
table- 58%
crown height-12%
Pavillion Depth 44%
Girdle - THin, faceted

Finish Good
Symmetry Very GOod
Culet - none
Flor - None

Are those comments above something I should stay away from. This was a beautiful stone with no visible inclusions on the table. One tiny dot that I could not see , even with a loupe.

I read this: VERY SLIGHTLY INCLUDED (VS1, and VS2)
Although inclusions are clearly visible under lOx magnification in the VS grades, they are characterized as minor or small in appearance. Diamonds in these grades might have characteristics such as small included crystals, small clouds, small feathers, or several pinpoints. The inclusions in these grades do not affect the beauty or the durability of the stone.

Thanks,
Melanie

 

[pqcollectibles]

If the Robbins Bros is the same chain as the one many people here have referred to in California,............. From what I've heard, I would not buy from them. Crappy quality. Crappy customer service. Don't stand behind their policies. One gal had a terrible time getting a refund on a ring she bought from them. They said the diamond was "Ideal". When she learned it was not as represented and wanted to return the ring for a refund, RB refused. Finally, and partly because she charged the purchase on a credit card, they refunded all but $250 of her purchase price. You can search old threads, by name, and read all about RB.

Here's a couple of links to threads about bearded girdles:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/girdle-question.9676/

http://www.pricescope.com/forum/topic10837.html

I, personally, would have a diamond with a bearded girdle professionally evaluated prior to purchase. If an appraiser does not find any structural issues with the girdle, it should be fine to purchase the diamond.

 

[MelanieC]

Hi,
Nope its just RObbins Jewelers. They are only in PA, NJ & DE. My friends diamond sparkles like no other diamond I have ever seen. The only thing I would do differently is go up to a H or G instead of an I. I could see a very slight yellow in her stone. Also I might go up on the SI1 that she got.

I am going in with an open mind tomorrow. If I can get an ideal cut with a very clean white stone and a price I can afford, I will consider it. I really wanted the stone above, but I am afraid of what someone said about hearline feathers in the girdle. Not sure if its definately something I need to worry about. Its a VS1, I thought that should be good with the inclusions. Now I am confused.

 

[pqcollectibles]

An evaluation by a professional appraiser could quickly ease your mind about the bearding issue. They would look at the girdle with higher magnification than a loupe (maybe 40X??). An appraiser could tell you if the bearding and hairline fractures might cause structural concern.

Good luck in your hunt tomorrow!! May you see many beautiful diamonds!!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 6/16/2004 9:39:51 PM MelanieC wrote:




A friend of mine just bought a ring there that was a (they have definate ideal cuts there that are kept seperate from regular cuts) ideal cut that was about $5500 I with an SI1----------------

A few things to consider as you contemplate purchasing.

1. A diamond with Good finish and VG symmetry is not an "ideal" diamond.......it may have ideal cut proportions, but AGS0 diamonds only get a 0 cut grade (ideal) if they symmetry and polish are ideal in addition to the cut proportions. By definition, this stone doesn't fall within that criteria.

2. You mentioned the stone your friend got. Was it a 1 ct? Who was it graded by? I ask because a 1 carat I, SI1 stone carrying a top grading report (AGS,GIA) can be found through several of the PS vendors for about $4200.....and you note she paid $5500.

3. The stone you're considering is EGL graded, and that may account for the "good deal" on the pricing. As long as the stone really is a G, VS1, great.....but I'd confirm that through an independent appraiser. EGL gradings can be lenient, so it may be that the price is good because the stone really grades as an H, SI.

4. Above all else, make sure your jeweler has a full-return return policy and not just exchange only. This is critical.....if you find out that your purchase isn't what you thought, and they cannot get what you want for a reasonable price, you have the right to return.

Good luck!

 

[valeria101]

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On 6/16/2004 9:39:51 PM MelanieC wrote:





Hairline feathers in girlde, minor bearding and minor details of posish and finish not shown.

Are those comments above something I should stay away from.

----------------

NO. I see the word "minor" there twice... so what if it's a minor problem from a grader's point of view? Most details that make a diamond’s grade are already so "minor" that one cannot identify them without magnification and training... These are some slight details that would make an ideal diamond less ideal (and so a reject for someone looking for the respective type of goods), but rejecting a diamonds because of such comment sounds extreme to me. If anything may affect the integrity of the stone upon setting, this is up to the jeweler making the ring to tell you. The comment cited does not mean this is absolutely the case.


Btw, the G-VS1 you have posted seems to have very promising proportions

Why replace it with a more expensive piece with lower grades?

 

[fire&ice]

Since I was the one who voiced concern, I will say that I would absolutely not buy that stone w/o an independent appraiser telling me that the hairlines will be stable as the girdle is thin to begin with. You should be o.k. with a VS1; but, that VS1 could turn into an SI upon setting, especially if the setter isn't any good.

Hairlines, feathers are a pet peeve of mine. I shy away from stones w/ them. But, without examining the stone, no one can tell you it will be o.k. during setting.

 

[niceice]

One or two minor feathers "may" be acceptible depending on the specific location and extent of the feather, but it requires an in-depth evaluation of the inclusions from a variety of angles. We definitely would avoid a series of feathers and bearding. Of course, we also avoid EGL graded diamonds because we don't feel that they grade as accurately as other gemological laboratories such as the GIA, AGS or HRD but that is a matter of our personal preference. Regardless, you should have the diamond evaluated by an independent appraiser before purchasing it, refer to the list of appraisers available via the "appraisers" link at the top of this page.

 

[MelanieC]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

I went to Robbins Jewelers today. Great HUGE store! Each person there has an individual desk with a microscope. Lots of room in each individual space so there was privacy (everyone in the store doesn't know what your spending) I had to take my 6 & 12 year old with me and they had a huge area for kids with toys and movies. This is what I bought.

AGS 11/19/04
RB 1.085 cts
Price $7000.00 Less $50 referral coupon -$6950 (no tax because bought in DE)
Measurements - 6.55-6.59x408mm
Cut Grade AGS Ideal 0
Polish - Ideal
Symmetry - Ideal
Proportions - Ideal
Color- AGS 2.0 (H)
Clarity - AGS 4 (VS2)
Depth-62.2%
Table-56%
Crown % 15.1
Crown Angle-34.8
Pavillion %-43.1
Pavillion Angle-41.0
Girdle - 1.7% to 2.7% Faceted (I believe he said it was medium)
Culet-pointed
flourensce: Negligible

This stone had more fire than any stone I have EVER seen. I saw such huge color ranges without having to TRY! The light return made this baby shine!

DH had given me $7500 to spend total for diamond and setting (although he approved $8000 this morning before I left). This stone cost less than the one originally mentioned in this post because I didn't have to pay sales tax. I put most of my money in the diamond so I went simple with the setting. I am actually glad I did. I think it's going to make that baby sit up and be noticed. Nothing to distract it.

I got a 4mm 14K white gold setting that has really cool cutting on the top. Its a heavy setting with a very slight bevel around edges. I got a matching beveled 4mm white gold band.

This store has Isee2 Scanner that takes 180 pictures of your diamond and rates it for Brilliance, Scintillation & Symmetry. Highest scores being 10. It scored a total 9.6. out of 10. He said the highest he has ever seen is 9.8 and has never seen a 10. I couldn't really tell exactly because it was on a bar grid. I guess I should have asked but only went by the total of all 3. It scored almost a perfect 10 on brilliance and only slightly lower on the sintillation & symmetry.

I just checked the HCA advisor and I am a little confused though. The other stone had a better HCA grade (1.8 I think). This stone scored a worse score?? I put in 0 on culet %(Is this correct?)

Selected: 62.2% depth, 56% table, 34.8° crown angle, 41° pavilion angle
The result is for a symmetrical diamond with a medium girdle and very good polish
HCA scores were adjusted Dec. 15, 2001 and Feb. 6, 2003.


Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Very Good
Scintillation Very Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 2.1 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right
Even though HCA grades cut more effectively than systems like the AGS, it does not yet factor in symmetry and minor facets. Having found a diamond that scores well, you should employ an expert appraiser to examine the stone. If you decide not to, then at least compare the diamond to others and/or view it through an ideal-scope.

A score below 2 (Excellent) means you have eliminated known poor performers (more than 95% of all diamonds). Your own personal preference may be for a diamond with an HCA score of 1.5 more rather than one with a lower score of say 0.5.

Many diamonds with excellent scores may not be traditional 'ideal cuts' but we believe their value will rise once the GIA establishes its cut standard.
This system is being continually fine-tuned and results may change without notice.


What's up with the score. I didn't have angles on the first diamond, but it scored higher. It scored high on the stores machine that rated these things. That took 180 pictures all around the diamond. I also swear I saw arrows when looking at it from the top. Maybe I am crazy. They also did another stone that was more similiar (but still better) than the original stone I mentioned in my post. It came up with a score of 7.6 out of 10. I will take 9.6 any day!!

What do you think?

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hey Melanie!

Your new diamond sounds absolutely beautiful!! Don't get hung up on the numbers. If you vary the crown and/or pavillion angle just 0.1 of a degree, you will get an entirely different answer.

You know what your eyes saw and that is reinforced by a great ISee2 score. Good Old Gold, a Price Scope Vendor, uses the ISee2 technology to evaluate diamonds they select. (If you want to read about ISee2, you can just click on the GOG name, it's a link.)

Forget your shopping worries. You done good girl!!

Enjoy your new diamond and wear it in health for many years to come!!