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HOF Diamond discounts?

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ezwinner701

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Dec 17, 2006
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we went to CH premire at Valley Fair and saw some HOF diamonds, but they said they could not discount them at all. So i checked a few archive threads and found some ppl have scored 25% off and one guy maybe bought one for over 50% off.

what''s the normal discount on them from an AD?

thanks
 

Ellen

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Jewelers who sell HOF are not supposed to discount them, however, apparently some do....So there is no normal discount.
 

PearNut

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Jan 3, 2007
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I am in the same dilema - I found a setting that I fell in love with by Hearts on Fire but I can''t afford the $$. Do you know of anywhere to get discount mountings? I found one similar (with help from ps member) on adiamor but it is not exactly the same and it doesn''t have an open gallery like the hof - which to me makes it look like little crowns on the band.

My choice is to go with my first setting that I chose (which is completely different) or pursue trying to find a discount hof or similar. Here they are:

HOF Emphasis setting: (I can''t find an online pict of the e-ring)

HOF emphasis 011207.jpg
 

Bosie

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In regards to discounts, and pricing, the manufacturer cannot tell a retailer what to sell it at, in the US that would be "price fixing", they have an MSRP, but a dealer can do what he/she wants. I had this experience being called from a waiting list on a Rolex watch, the dealer wanted $1000 over MSRP, I called Rolex to complain and they told me they could do nothing about it, the watch has an MSRP but the dealer could do what they wanted, sell at MSRP, discount or sell at premium. The "S" in MSRP stands for Suggested.
 

Ellen

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Date: 1/12/2007 8:47:26 AM
Author: Bosie
In regards to discounts, and pricing, the manufacturer cannot tell a retailer what to sell it at, in the US that would be ''price fixing'', they have an MSRP, but a dealer can do what he/she wants. I had this experience being called from a waiting list on a Rolex watch, the dealer wanted $1000 over MSRP, I called Rolex to complain and they told me they could do nothing about it, the watch has an MSRP but the dealer could do what they wanted, sell at MSRP, discount or sell at premium. The ''S'' in MSRP stands for Suggested.
Interesting, because I had 2 HOF dealers tell me they couldn''t discount...
 

kenny

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How do you know they are not just "discounting" from an inflated price?

This happens all the time with oriental rugs and pianos.


I will not buy a diamond unless it has an Internet-published price.
They are set by the vendor knowing that if it's too high it won't sell because it is so easy to compare prices on the Internet.
This is a powerful thing that works in the customer's favor.

When you walk into a B&M they got you.
It is private; They can put any price they want to on a diamond.
You will never know if you got a good or a bad deal.
Sure you can visit 10 B&Ms but it takes forever compared to Internet surfing.
Even then, all 10 are setting a price in private.
 

oldminer

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I don't know the folks who run HOF, but have never heard anyone say anything bad about the stones or the management. Price is ALWAYS an issue when it comes to diamonds. Discounting can get to a point where no one makes enough money to support their operation, so attempting to maintain profitability is a crucial ingredient to long term, continuing service and operations. Its difficult to maintain this balance yet some companies do an excellent job of it.

I doubt HOF is in a position to force a seller to keep exactly to MSRP, but they can favor their "preferred" clients with better inventory availability and more rapid service. They can sort of cut an offender off by providing less service and less supply. Kind of a slow choke on the business until they lose the unwanted client. Just a guess, but this is often how one maintains a price level somewhat within the law.

There are many diamonds sold with pretty much equivalent performance and looks to a HOF diamond, but when a brand is successful, only the stone with the NAME will do for people who have become convinced of the value of that particular BRAND. If you shop enough you will likely find a discounter of nearly every item that others get full price for. Its up to your endurance. I see no harm in trying if you have the time and energy to spend for this process. There are alternatives, but this is up to you.
 

ezwinner701

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
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Pearnut, we are in the same boat. we saw a setting that we just LOVED, but it was $6600 for 4 side stones equally around .95 caret. When we put a 2 caret RB in the center, it just looked DDG!! but the shop would not discount the ring at all.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 1/12/2007 8:47:26 AM
Author: Bosie
In regards to discounts, and pricing, the manufacturer cannot tell a retailer what to sell it at, in the US that would be ''price fixing'', they have an MSRP, but a dealer can do what he/she wants. I had this experience being called from a waiting list on a Rolex watch, the dealer wanted $1000 over MSRP, I called Rolex to complain and they told me they could do nothing about it, the watch has an MSRP but the dealer could do what they wanted, sell at MSRP, discount or sell at premium. The ''S'' in MSRP stands for Suggested.
Some years back in uSA Rolex were being heavily discounted and Rolex fought a legal battle with the FTC and I believe they won the right to close accounts with retailers who discounted. It was a land mark i believe and set some new standards for wholesalers retailer dealings.

Does anyone know more about this?
Anyway as Dave says - many branded product wholesalers would prefer their goods were offered at higher prices because it sets the idea of rarity etc. And they can restrict supply to one local vendor and favor another and lead to the favored vendor taking all the local business.
 

Ellen

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Date: 1/12/2007 12:16:39 PM
Author: oldminer

I doubt HOF is in a position to force a seller to keep exactly to MSRP, but they can favor their ''preferred'' clients with better inventory availability and more rapid service. They can sort of cut an offender off by providing less service and less supply. Kind of a slow choke on the business until they lose the unwanted client. Just a guess, but this is often how one maintains a price level somewhat within the law.
OK, I could buy that, makes sense.

Good post!
 

Modified Brilliant

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Date: 1/12/2007 2:25:05 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 1/12/2007 8:47:26 AM
Author: Bosie
In regards to discounts, and pricing, the manufacturer cannot tell a retailer what to sell it at, in the US that would be ''price fixing'', they have an MSRP, but a dealer can do what he/she wants. I had this experience being called from a waiting list on a Rolex watch, the dealer wanted $1000 over MSRP, I called Rolex to complain and they told me they could do nothing about it, the watch has an MSRP but the dealer could do what they wanted, sell at MSRP, discount or sell at premium. The ''S'' in MSRP stands for Suggested.
Some years back in uSA Rolex were being heavily discounted and Rolex fought a legal battle with the FTC and I believe they won the right to close accounts with retailers who discounted. It was a land mark i believe and set some new standards for wholesalers retailer dealings.

Does anyone know more about this?
Anyway as Dave says - many branded product wholesalers would prefer their goods were offered at higher prices because it sets the idea of rarity etc. And they can restrict supply to one local vendor and favor another and lead to the favored vendor taking all the local business.
I was a District Manager for a national jewelry chain when Rolex "sent out letters" closing accounts of their choice. It was a bitter pill to swallow for many retailers. This happened in the early 90''s if I recall. They call the shots and rightfully so. I''m all for protecting the integrity of a product.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Date: 1/12/2007 3:44:46 PM
Author: Modified Brilliant

Date: 1/12/2007 2:25:05 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


Date: 1/12/2007 8:47:26 AM
Author: Bosie
In regards to discounts, and pricing, the manufacturer cannot tell a retailer what to sell it at, in the US that would be ''price fixing'', they have an MSRP, but a dealer can do what he/she wants. I had this experience being called from a waiting list on a Rolex watch, the dealer wanted $1000 over MSRP, I called Rolex to complain and they told me they could do nothing about it, the watch has an MSRP but the dealer could do what they wanted, sell at MSRP, discount or sell at premium. The ''S'' in MSRP stands for Suggested.
Some years back in uSA Rolex were being heavily discounted and Rolex fought a legal battle with the FTC and I believe they won the right to close accounts with retailers who discounted. It was a land mark i believe and set some new standards for wholesalers retailer dealings.

Does anyone know more about this?
Anyway as Dave says - many branded product wholesalers would prefer their goods were offered at higher prices because it sets the idea of rarity etc. And they can restrict supply to one local vendor and favor another and lead to the favored vendor taking all the local business.
I was a District Manager for a national jewelry chain when Rolex ''sent out letters'' closing accounts of their choice. It was a bitter pill to swallow for many retailers. This happened in the early 90''s if I recall. They call the shots and rightfully so. I''m all for protecting the integrity of a product.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com
Thanks Jeff, it is always a bit risky trusting my memory.

Was there a court case of some sort wasn''t there?
Maybe after the letter was sent out as I recall.

I got the info from my good friend Don Grieg, a Kiwi who moved to USA with one of the first retail stock managment systems. He formed a rare partnership with GIA GIA-ARMS and introduced a system that started a new wave of computer managment for retail stores - many of which were running less than 0.5 stock turns at that time - and the owner / founders had in mind that they would retire on the 3 or $4M stock holding - which of course was all 10 years or older and not saleable even at 1/2 cost
 

Bosie

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Messages
324
Gary and others----------

I am a Rolex enthusiast and have been frequenting the watch forums for a long time and I can tell you there are hundreds if not thousands of posts about guys/girls scoring Rolex watches at discounts, sometimes up to 20%, and have not heard of anyone posting that their AD is not carrying the Rolex line anymore because Rolex pulled the plug, just not happening.

Does Rolex like when an AD discounts, probably not.

I was on a waitlist for a Stainless Steel Rolex Daytona from an AD on Long Island, finally the AD called me and had the watch for me. The new list price is $7900, dealer wanted $9000 plus tax. So let me see, that is not a discount, it is asking and getting a premium. I told the dealer what he could do with it, but, he did not care, he sold it in 1 hr to the next guy on the list. I called Rolex in NYC, US Headquarters and spoke to someone in marketing, told them I was furious, but they told me the MSRP story and could not tell a dealer what to sell it for.

In a case like this, demand exceeds supply of this particular model. When I posted my story on the watch forum about the dealer gouging me, guys/girls responded that is nothing new and their AD''s do it all the time. One footnote, these AD''s for the SS Daytona have what I call 2 lists, one for customers who drop a bundle in the store, and other like me who will buy once from them.
 

ezwinner701

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
52
so has anyone gotten a discount yet?

what was said about rolex AD''s are true. I think they pulled the whole account from BBB a while back, but some stores will still sell their two tones for 20-27% off still.
 

Adylon

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Messages
232
I have found that when it comes to jewelry and anything branded or designer there is a very fine line about what is tolerated both for selling online and for price discounting. Many designers won''t allow you to put their products online, period. For them they need to protect the integrity of their brand and all the advertising dollars put into that brand... They also need to protect the physical dealers who have decided to buy the entire line to showcase in their store. It''s not very fair for one dealer to invest $75,000 to carry a line to showcase in their store while another dealer invests nothing and just uses photos to sell the same designer line at a discount through the internet.

Other designers take the stance that if you stock their jewelry, you are allowed to sell their products on the web through your website which more or less relfects upon the products in your store. If you sell on the internet only, or don''t have a showcase to display goods so people can see them in person they will not let you sell their products.

And many if not all designers have a policy regarding pricing, that you can not advertise below an MSRP. So either you show the MSRP price, or none at all. You can display something like "please call for a quote" and then sell it at whatever you like or the fixed price the vendors asks you, depending on their policies. Likewise, some vendors allow you can offer customers coupon codes and such to give them 10% off or whatever (as long as the discount is not blatently obvious), but the advertised price must be the MSRP price. If you go to Amazon you''ll see this a lot for electronics, etc. They''ll say that they''re not allowed to display the price online until you add the item to your shopping cart and some coupon code is applied.

As it relates to loose diamonds, I think this will be the general trend. I bet we''ll see more and more branded diamonds come on the market, maybe some more unique proprietary cuts or whatever which will be heavily promoted and advertised. And sellers will be allowed to use virtual lists to display all these diamonds, however they will have fixed "MSRP" prices and anyone found discounting lower then this price will get in big trouble. :)

I can understand the desire for the consumer to buy the branded item the cheapest way possible. Like a Gucci purse or Prada sunglasses or whatever. But let''s face it you buy those products not because they''re any better, but because of the brand and all the money that was poured into creating that brand/image. So if you want a branded diamond I don''t think you should be surprised when the price is held to a high premium. And I think it''s asking a lot to request a jeweler to give you a discount knowing full well he/she may lose their ability to sell the brand if they are caught. Fair is fair after all :)

Just my 2c :)
 

DiamondExpert

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Jan 15, 2003
Messages
1,245
Biose - LOL! You were not being gouged, but being asked to pay the market price at the time and place you wanted to purchase...no one was holding a gun to your head, I''m sure.

List/MSR price means very little in a changing market - it''s sometimes less, sometimes more...as I''m sure you''re aware.

If you run into the field, you''re expected to play the game, and it''s assumed you know the "rules."
 

Bosie

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Messages
324
Diamond Expert--- I agree. I now know the rules of the game and can play if I want. But you are right.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 1/12/2007 8:47:26 AM
Author: Bosie
In regards to discounts, and pricing, the manufacturer cannot tell a retailer what to sell it at, in the US that would be ''price fixing'', they have an MSRP, but a dealer can do what he/she wants. I had this experience being called from a waiting list on a Rolex watch, the dealer wanted $1000 over MSRP, I called Rolex to complain and they told me they could do nothing about it, the watch has an MSRP but the dealer could do what they wanted, sell at MSRP, discount or sell at premium. The ''S'' in MSRP stands for Suggested.
welcome to the real world price fixing is rapant in the designer setting industry and in the branded diamond market.
Nothing is done about it so they continue it.
 
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