HOA meeting and prayer that ends with "in Jesus' name"

[kenny]

 

[Jambalaya]

Haaahaaaa! That is funny!

 

[NonieMarie]

I just returned from an advisory board meeting. At the end, I brought up the subject about the prayer. All present felt that the prayer, as a whole, should not be said. They all have been uncomfortable since it started. They would rather have a moment of silence. All were Christians and one identified as born again. Evidently, the board president just started this prayer in the last 6 months or so and they said it has gotten longer every month.
The suggestion was for me to schedule a meeting with the board president and address our concerns. If she does not stop or change to a moment of silence, then I will bring it to the floor at the meeting.

 

[kenny]

Glad it's resolved.
Kudos to you for speaking up.

Wow, how creepy that people were uncomfortable (but remained silent) for 6 months.
I would have been silent for about 6 seconds.

It's very sad and telling of the intimidating power these institutions still manage to wield in our culture ... and this was 2016 in Calfornia!!!.

Imagine all the uncomfortable, but silent, folks (who think they are being polite) in the red states.

 

[Jambalaya]

Good, so it seems that this will be resolved without a mini-apocalypse in your community. Since the advisory board is unanimous, hopefully the president won't go against that. Interesting that the prayers are quite new and were just started apropos of nothing. I was imagining this as an ingrained tradition, since it seemed more likely than someone just starting them out of the blue not long ago.

I found this today. I thought it might be interesting, especially since you're about to raise the issue with the prez: http://www.davis-stirling.com/BoardMeetingPrayer/tabid/2720/Default.aspx

 

[House Cat]

Glad it's resolved.
Kudos to you for speaking up.

Wow, how creepy that people were uncomfortable (but remained silent) for 6 months.
It's very sad and telling of the intimidating power these institutions still manage to wield in our culture ... and this is 2016 in Calfornia!!!.

Imagine all the uncomfortable, but silent, folks (who think they are being polite) in the red states.

I can't get behind the idea that in this circumstance, people remained silent because of an institution. People might have remained silent due to a social hierarchy or because some people suck and are aggressive when their point of view isn't agreed with 100%. One can't say with total certainty that it is the institution of Christianity that brought about the silence.

My mom lived in one of these retirement communities. The pool was a hoot. There was a huge group of women who would float around in a circle on those foam noodles and scoff at people and enforce the rules of the pool all day long. If you think that behavior stopped when they dried off, you're kidding yourself. They were at every social event and meeting, displaying the same behavior.

Sometimes...people just suck and others decide that confronting them isn't worth their time. Who wants to put up with jerks when living life happily is a far bigger priority? There is nothing wrong with this point of view if this is what is best for this person. There can be wisdom in this.

For the OP, feeling marginalized and standing up for herself was worth it. The situation worked out well. For the rest of the people in the HOA, they either weren't uncomfortable enough or it wasn't worth the trouble for one reason or another.

Without knowing everyone in the HOA, you can't say for certain why people didn't speak up.

 

[NonieMarie]

Good, so it seems that this will be resolved without a mini-apocalypse in your community. Since the advisory board is unanimous, hopefully the president won't go against that. Interesting that the prayers are quite new and were just started apropos of nothing. I was imagining this as an ingrained tradition, since it seemed more likely than someone just starting them out of the blue not long ago.

I found this today. I thought it might be interesting, especially since you're about to raise the issue with the prez: http://www.davis-stirling.com/BoardMeetingPrayer/tabid/2720/Default.aspx

Thanks

 

[Jambalaya]

Kenny: Wow, how creepy that people were uncomfortable (but remained silent) for 6 months.

I think many people don't like confrontation, in any sphere.

I would have been silent for about 6 seconds.

I envy your self-confidence! I think many just don't have the confidence to speak up in a room.

 

[packrat]

Hi Kenny, what you wrote above about broken debating - you know, I don't feel I'm as well-educated or have received the kind of professional training as some others have here, and I certainly don't know as much about politics and civics as some. Ksinger and AGBF spring to mind as the kind of very polished thinkers here, of the type that I'm definitely not. So I'm totally open to the fact that my logic or my line of reasoning may flip-flop or not make sense, and sometimes I feel embarrassed about that. So if I'm a culprit there, I'm owning up to it here.

In the first example you gave below, the similarities that I see in the two comparisons are that hands are engaged in both situations? Texting and being on the phone?

Right there w/you. I type like I talk. I don't use fancy words in my normal speech, I say um, uh, like, awesome-all these things that are frowned upon, and I am disjointed at times. It takes me forever to type out some responses b/c of trying to figure out how to word things, to try and get my point across w/out sounding like I'm completely uneducated and sitting here w/my finger in my nose, scratching my behind. I am friends w/someone from here on FB and I read her musings there and think good heavens I sound like a gibbering fool compared to her. Just another reason there are people here I would never want to meet in real life.

 

[packrat]

I'm glad it's resolved now. I can understand the people who didn't say anything. Confrontation isn't the most fun way to spend a day. And, really, people who stand up and say "I'm uncomfortable w/this and here's why" aren't always received well. Sometimes it's less a hassle to not make waves. It shouldn't be that way, we should be able to speak up about things, no matter where we are, but that's not the way things work.

 

[ruby59]

Then of course there are those, who even if a bit uncomfortable, cope with it. We prefer to choose our battles rather then get bent out of shape over every little thing.

I am a minority in my State, which is heavily Catholic. I also live in an area governed by a Homeowners Association. Having to live with some of their rules that govern what colors you can paint your house, the kind of fence you can have, and even what outside decorations can be put on your front lawn have concerned me more then a short prayer that I can easily tune out.

 

[Matata]

Right there w/you. I type like I talk. I don't use fancy words in my normal speech, I say um, uh, like, awesome-all these things that are frowned upon, and I am disjointed at times. It takes me forever to type out some responses b/c of trying to figure out how to word things, to try and get my point across w/out sounding like I'm completely uneducated and sitting here w/my finger in my nose, scratching my behind. I am friends w/someone from here on FB and I read her musings there and think good heavens I sound like a gibbering fool compared to her. Just another reason there are people here I would never want to meet in real life.

packrat, you need to unload this bunch of bull from your psyche right now. You are cogent, to the point, thoughtful, articulate. I would rather read one line of your writing, which always makes and gets to the point, than the rambling, self-aggrandizing encyclopedic volumes written by others. You are a delight; I am a fan. So get over it.

 

[Jambalaya]

Hi Kenny, what you wrote above about broken debating - you know, I don't feel I'm as well-educated or have received the kind of professional training as some others have here, and I certainly don't know as much about politics and civics as some. Ksinger and AGBF spring to mind as the kind of very polished thinkers here, of the type that I'm definitely not. So I'm totally open to the fact that my logic or my line of reasoning may flip-flop or not make sense, and sometimes I feel embarrassed about that. So if I'm a culprit there, I'm owning up to it here.

In the first example you gave below, the similarities that I see in the two comparisons are that hands are engaged in both situations? Texting and being on the phone?

Right there w/you. I type like I talk. I don't use fancy words in my normal speech, I say um, uh, like, awesome-all these things that are frowned upon, and I am disjointed at times. It takes me forever to type out some responses b/c of trying to figure out how to word things, to try and get my point across w/out sounding like I'm completely uneducated and sitting here w/my finger in my nose, scratching my behind. I am friends w/someone from here on FB and I read her musings there and think good heavens I sound like a gibbering fool compared to her. Just another reason there are people here I would never want to meet in real life.

I wouldn't like to meet some of them in real life either. Everything else you say, I must respectfully disagree with. I LOVE your posts and you have a great writing style that I envy. You never get angry or passive-aggressive or personal. You're very accepting of everyone's flaws and imperfections. I get the feeling that you're the kind of person who recognizes that we are all doing our best and gives people the benefit of the doubt - you seem kind like that. Must be nice to be your friend IRL.

 

[Matata]

.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Sounds like it will all work out! Yay for being ASSERTIVE and articulating your discomfort! That is a very hard skill to practice.

 

[Jambalaya]

Good, so it seems that this will be resolved without a mini-apocalypse in your community. Since the advisory board is unanimous, hopefully the president won't go against that. Interesting that the prayers are quite new and were just started apropos of nothing. I was imagining this as an ingrained tradition, since it seemed more likely than someone just starting them out of the blue not long ago.

I found this today. I thought it might be interesting, especially since you're about to raise the issue with the prez: http://www.davis-stirling.com/BoardMeetingPrayer/tabid/2720/Default.aspx

Thanks

You're welcome!

 

[AGBF]

Ksinger and AGBF spring to mind as the kind of very polished thinkers here, of the type that I'm definitely not.

Right there w/you. I type like I talk.

...​

Just another reason there are people here I would never want to meet in real life.

I wouldn't like to meet some of them in real life either.

Having been named above, perhaps I should say that in real life I actually do not eat ALL the children I lure to my Gingerbread House. It's just that Hansel and Gretel looked so tasty!

AGBF

 

[Jambalaya]

But you would eat me alive in intellectual debate, Deb!

 

[kenny]

I love people from all IQ levels.

It's other things that make me not like individuals.

It's nearly impossible for me to articulate what exactly draws me to, and repels me from, individuals.

This may be a good thread.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I like to watch Hangout. Don't post all that much.....but the conversations are sometimes riveting.
If you compare discussion here with those on FB - and also other sites where politics and religion are discussed - there's tremendous civility here. That's really hard to do and unfortunately rare as chickens teeth lately.
Kudos to Andrey and co for promoting this environment and all those expressing opinions.

eta- reminds me of the Churchill quote about democracy- the worst possible system, besides all the others.

 

[Tekate]

Thank you very much Smitcompton, you stated how I felt much better than I do. I respect all beliefs (even the flying spaghetti monster).. but I need not be exposed to others beliefs, I read and heard them all.. as I said; I respect them but wish to be left alone in how I believe.

much peace to you. (everyone)

Hi,

Ellen-I believe Tekate tried to show you that whether or not you take your God with you wherever you go, you can do the same with the spirit of laughter; laughing when it is appropriate and praying publically when it is appropriate. You seem so used to saying "Our Lord and Savior" that you seem to include all of us in the umbrella. Jesus is not everyones "Lord and Savior", so you probably should have said, "My Lord and Savior".

The Bible verses you want to write for us don't clarify much, as there seems to be a verse that covers anything an individual wants to show. In fact your explanation, really wasn't one IMO.

Certain types of Christianity hold their members to spread the word, ask in Jesus name, and a myriad of other commands. I think, Ellen, that's what you want to do to us. You've had 200= yrs here to do your work. Most people know what it is. I don't want more. I am so tired of people trying to save some ones soul, as if they are not good enough.

I like you too, Ellen, but I don't want you to preach here. By all means give explanations. I did read yours.

Annette

 

[Ellen]

Ellen, I must respectfully disagree. I had to google "draconian," so we both learned something.

Ok, this made me laugh. Thanks.


Smitcompton, yes, it was simply out of habit that I said "our" instead of "my". My apologies.

As for the verses I couldn't post, no, they were not just "generic" verses that could include why born again Christians use His name. They are specific. And if you didn't get my explanation, well. I guess you didn't. But I did in fact explain why born again Christians use His name. It's just very simple, He asks, we born again Christians do. Maybe you expected something lengthy, involved and terribly theological?

I will respectfully not comment on your last point. Rules don't allow for it, but no, I don't expect you to do what I do.

Take care smit.



Jambalaya, thank you. But you have NO need to apologize for not commenting on the explanation. You weren't who I was explaining to really, it was everyone else who didn't understand and seemed to have such a problem.

You've done a truly admirable job of patiently trying to convey your thoughts and points of view. It's funny how others have seen it differently. (and my posts as well). It has been interesting to see how a group of people can totally miss ones intentions. Maybe because they want to? At any rate, I will say it again, I wish more people would strive to emulate your open mindedness and respect. the world would be a far, far nicer place. It was a pleasure chatting with you.

 

[missy]

Right there w/you. I type like I talk. I don't use fancy words in my normal speech, I say um, uh, like, awesome-all these things that are frowned upon, and I am disjointed at times. It takes me forever to type out some responses b/c of trying to figure out how to word things, to try and get my point across w/out sounding like I'm completely uneducated and sitting here w/my finger in my nose, scratching my behind. I am friends w/someone from here on FB and I read her musings there and think good heavens I sound like a gibbering fool compared to her. Just another reason there are people here I would never want to meet in real life.

packrat, you need to unload this bunch of bull from your psyche right now. You are cogent, to the point, thoughtful, articulate. I would rather read one line of your writing, which always makes and gets to the point, than the rambling, self-aggrandizing encyclopedic volumes written by others. You are a delight; I am a fan. So get over it.

I am dittoing Matata's comments because I feel the same way about your posts Packrat. I appreciate your straightforward style of writing like you talk and it is always intelligent and thoughtful and you always make your point. In fact I have dittoed you on many an occasion and I wouldn't have done that if I did not appreciate you and your thoughts.

 

[AGBF]

But you would eat me alive in intellectual debate, Deb!

Jambalaya,

Although I like to discuss politics, (and religion and history) there are times when debate becomes extremely tedious to me. I am actually not one of the posters who can go on forever arguing a point with another poster. There are such posters on Pricescope, and I give them credit for their intellectual tenacity, but I become bored. I am too much of an intellectual lightweight. I also am not really a dog who gets hold of a bone and will not let it go. Sometimes I become passionate about an issue in a thread here and the skies open up for me momentarily, but the moment usually passes pretty quickly. I don't have staying power in these Pricescope endless debates.

Also: when someone comes to my home or when I meet someone for a purpose other than to socialize as close friends who discuss politics, I remember a couple of things I "learned in kindergarten".

First: courtesy is making other people feel comfortable. Just as one would not correct the grammar of another person, one would not comment on another person's assertion that God was looking over everyone and never gives anyone more than he can handle or that the devil had gotten into his sister's heart. Nor-if he was in your home-would one try to argue with a stranger's assertion that he loved Trump, except, perhaps to say, that one did not feel the same way.

Second: (this I actually learned in social work school) one must meet people "where they are". Some people are educated. Some people are not. Some speak English. Some do not. Some are emotionally well held together. Some are not. They are all human. If you want to be of service to one of them-or to interact with one of them socially-you must meet him as he is. Accept him as the person he is. And talk to him in way that that reaches him where he is. A way in which he accepts and can relate to. This is very similar to courtesy, but some people who are not used to working with people on the fringes of society do not know how to extend courtesy to people who are extremely different from themselves. Not because they are bad, just because they do not have experience with these different populations.

If one encounters a large, bearded man who doesn't appear very clean and is mumbling to himself in a public library, one doesn't have to be a bad person to want to avoid him. One may want to protect oneself. But if one wants to help him, one must accept him as he is and try to talk to him.

I believe you would be a great pleasure to talk to, Jambalaya. I don't think I would be rude or frightening if we met in person. We have a lot in common as caretakers.

Hugs,
(((Jambalaya)))
Deb

 

[BeekeeperBetty]

Good for you for speaking up, and I'm glad it looks like it will be resolved easily.

Kenny, California is largely Christian, so I'm not surprised. Don't forget there are large numbers of Catholics in California, and in many areas of the state it is as conservative as in the south. The state is much more varied than just the super liberal Bay Area and LA.

 

[missy]

NonieMarie, I'm happy this issue looks like it will be easily resolved. I'm a big fan of speaking up if you are uncomfortable about something. Not just for you but also because odds are pretty good if you feel uncomfortable others do too. I'm hoping it works out smoothly.

I just returned from an advisory board meeting. At the end, I brought up the subject about the prayer. All present felt that the prayer, as a whole, should not be said. They all have been uncomfortable since it started. They would rather have a moment of silence. All were Christians and one identified as born again. Evidently, the board president just started this prayer in the last 6 months or so and they said it has gotten longer every month.
The suggestion was for me to schedule a meeting with the board president and address our concerns. If she does not stop or change to a moment of silence, then I will bring it to the floor at the meeting.

 

[Jambalaya]

Thank you Ellen and Deb for your sweet sentiments toward me. xxx

 

[kenny]

Good for you for speaking up, and I'm glad it looks like it will be resolved easily.

Kenny, California is largely Christian, so I'm not surprised. Don't forget there are large numbers of Catholics in California, and in many areas of the state it is as conservative as in the south. The state is much more varied than just the super liberal Bay Area and LA.

Yes you're right, of course.
Only California's large population centers are liberal.

 

[BeekeeperBetty]

Except for San Diego, which is strangely conservative, probably because 25% of the population of the city is active duty. I do agree, however, that there is this perception that California is very progressive, and in many ways this is true insofar as policy is concerned.