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Hidden diamond - affect light performance?

RayEarth

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
46
Hi all

I am set on a simple solitaire setting for the engagement ring. However, to put a bit of personal touch to the ring, I was thinking of putting a hidden colored diamond (pink or blue) at the bottom of the head - see picture below.

My question: would that affect the light performance of the main diamond at all? eg, add some pink tint to the reflected light. Or is nothing visible below the cutlet if it is small enough?

The idea is not for the diamond to be seen at all, but just there for a personal touch to the ring.

Hidden%20Diamond.jpg
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
No, it should not for a well cut diamond as their light performance do not depend on light entering from the pavilion. Looks at the idealscope image, red and black is light source from above the girdle, only white comes from below the girdle.
 

TristanC

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
995
Ah this is an interesting one. If the colour is saturated enough, it might just be visible very slightly at certain angles as colour in your stone.

Is this the intention? Or is the intention to have the diamonds invisible to everyone but just there? you can do a reverse channel set ring of diamonds with a complete circle of pinks which can't be seen when the ring is worn... :)

Would like to see the photos from the top view once you're done with it.
 

nfowife

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
544
If you are concerned about this you can always put the surprise stone elsewhere inside the shank. It's done pretty often and you won't have to worry about reflections throughout the stone (which in a well cut stone shouldn't be much of an issue).
 

Lew Lew

Shiny_Rock
Trade
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Jul 25, 2009
Messages
142
I heard a story about a pink diamond turning out to be a white diamond with pink nail varnish painted on the culet - that the pink color on the culet made the diamond look pink. Could the same thing happen with the hidden pink diamond under the culet in the ring?
 

D&T

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 27, 2008
Messages
12,504
Shouldn't be a problem for a well cut stone, if there is lots of leakage or a very large open culet then I could possible see the hint of pink when viewed on top. I tried to put a blue color paper under the opening of my RB stone (no culet) and could not see the color come through. However on my asscher, I have slight leakage and yes, I can see the color from top view at certain angles. I also have an oec with a culet that I remember putting my finger on the back of the opening and can see the color of my flesh when I louped it.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,102
Lew Lew|1310148943|2964843 said:
I heard a story about a pink diamond turning out to be a white diamond with pink nail varnish painted on the culet - that the pink color on the culet made the diamond look pink. Could the same thing happen with the hidden pink diamond under the culet in the ring?

That would be a different case - total internal reflection that allows light to bounce around inside the stone and eventually be returned from the crown to your eyes depends on A) the pavilion facets being at specific angle(s) and B) the diamond-air interface (specifically the difference in refractive index btwn diamond and air, both of which, unlike opaque nail polish, allow light to travel through them :cheeky: ). Same reason a dirty diamond leaks more light - it's not diamond-air anymore, it's diamond-oil, which changes the critical angle for TIR... in any case when you paint the pavilion w/ pink nailpolish since nailpolish does have *some* reflectance the light just travels through the diamond, hits the polish/diamond boundary, and is reflected back into the stone pink - no more refraction or total internal reflection. The lower pavilion is a hub of activity - light from all around the stone bounces off the pavilion in that area and returns to all around the stone, so the stone would take on the paint colour..

If a well-cut RB isn't actually touching the coloured surface - or is touching at literally a pinpoint culet, which is negligible (doesn't have a large open culet that you can see right through) it's not going to look pink or anything like that!
 

Lew Lew

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 25, 2009
Messages
142
Yssie|1310160722|2965010 said:
Lew Lew|1310148943|2964843 said:
I heard a story about a pink diamond turning out to be a white diamond with pink nail varnish painted on the culet - that the pink color on the culet made the diamond look pink. Could the same thing happen with the hidden pink diamond under the culet in the ring?

That would be a different case - total internal reflection that allows light to bounce around inside the stone and eventually be returned from the crown to your eyes depends on A) the pavilion facets being at specific angle(s) and B) the diamond-air interface (specifically the difference in refractive index btwn diamond and air, both of which, unlike opaque nail polish, allow light to travel through them :cheeky: ). Same reason a dirty diamond leaks more light - it's not diamond-air anymore, it's diamond-oil, which changes the critical angle for TIR... in any case when you paint the pavilion w/ pink nailpolish since nailpolish does have *some* reflectance the light just travels through the diamond, hits the polish/diamond boundary, and is reflected back into the stone pink - no more refraction or total internal reflection. The lower pavilion is a hub of activity - light from all around the stone bounces off the pavilion in that area and returns to all around the stone, so the stone would take on the paint colour..

If a well-cut RB isn't actually touching the coloured surface - or is touching at literally a pinpoint culet, which is negligible (doesn't have a large open culet that you can see right through) it's not going to look pink or anything like that!
Yssie,
Thank you for the explanation!

I hope OP gets the hidden diamond as planned and posts pics
 

RayEarth

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
46
Thanks all for the comment. The idea is to put a personal touch to the band, which is not visible when the ring is worn at all.

I remember seeing a ring with exactly that hidden diamond (blue) at the bottom of the cutlet in PS - but I cannot seem to find that post anymore. Anyone also seen this before?

I have passed on the idea to WF for a custom work - let's see what they have to say!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
RayEarth|1310214243|2965403 said:
Thanks all for the comment. The idea is to put a personal touch to the band, which is not visible when the ring is worn at all.

I remember seeing a ring with exactly that hidden diamond (blue) at the bottom of the cutlet in PS - but I cannot seem to find that post anymore. Anyone also seen this before?

I have passed on the idea to WF for a custom work - let's see what they have to say!
Haven's ring has a yellow diamond at the bottom. You could also put it in the inside of the band?
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
28,962
If both its material and color are of natural origin and it's a strong pure blue even a tiny blue diamond hidden down there would be very expensive.
If it is fine enough it may even cost as much as, or more than, the main colorless diamond.
If that's fine with you, then fine.

If not you'll have to go with an unnatural blue.
Nothing wrong with that, unless there is.
I think some would frown on an engagement ring having synthetic or color-treated stones.

On a separate note it would seem a shame for a valuable fine blue to not be visible, though I can appreciate the sentiment of something personal and private being exceptionally valuable too.

Next there is the rarity.
If you are particular a blue diamond that's just right may take a long time to find.
Another possibility to consider is a fine natural blue sapphire.
 

RayEarth

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
46
Thanks Kenny. At the moment I am looking more at a pink diamond. Having a look around, I find that pink diamonds of 0.05-0.08ct range can be had for $400-$800 range, which doesn't seem too bad.

Will explore having it embedded in the band option too.
 

RayEarth

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Messages
46
Here's the CAD design.

My only concern is that the wedding band may not sit flush with the ring because of the "donut" at the bottom of the cutlet. Anyone have any ideas how to improve the design? Do other tiffany-style rings sit flush with the wedding band?

Raymond%20Lou%20-%20CAD%20-%20072011%20-%203ver1.jpg
 

OCgirl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
509
I don't think the tiffany-style rings sit flush with the wedding band. You have to set the prongs higher. For a stone that size you have to set it quite high to avoid hitting another band.
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,614
You basically have to eliminate the donut to make it sit flush. Here's an example of a 6 prong ring without a donut (but it's not as nice as the Tiffany replicas IMO). All the Tiff replicas will not sit flush, but it's not a huge gap.

6328 copy profile.jpg
 
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