Hi! I''m new here... I have 1.26 non-certified G VVS1 wedding set

[tweeanna]

I think i paid too much for a BADLY cut stone. This is going to bug me until I get rid of this stone!

 

[Mara]

tweeana...i had a G stone then an H and then a J and now another J and i have loved them all individually...but I didn''t see a whit of color in my stones until I got to the J. so I would imagine an H would be just as nice to you as a G would at this point...especially if you are not color sensitive...and regarding an SI stone..I had a VS and then an SI1 and if it''s graded by a reputable lab and confirmed eye-clean by the vendor then typically you can find a great SI stone and save some $$. I love SI''s as they represent a great deal if you can find a good one (i have had a few!!). Also, the better cut the stone, the better it will also hide the inclusions in it''s sparkle pattern.

anyway, good luck with returning the stone and when you are able to look, people will love to help you find something new. even if you are stuck with store credit, we can give you tips on what to ask for and look for in your replacement stone from your jeweler so that you can end up with something great.

 

[kenny]

There is a tool called the HCA, short for Holloway Cut Advisor.
Up at the top of his screen click on the word Tools.
Then select Cut Advisor

You just plug 4 numbers into it.
(Not all reports or vendors give you these numbers BTW.)

Depth %
Table %
Crown Angle
Pavillion Angle
(Make sure you use Crown and Pavillion angles, not percentages.)

Click on go.

A score under 2.0 is what you want.
I like to keep it 0.8 to 1.3, but that’s just me.

If your budget is $6,000 for the stone alone you are going to have to give up size color or clarity.
You are not going to find a 1.499 G VSS1 or VS1 for anything near that price (unless you are being lied to.)
But please don’t compromise on cut.

Here is a great diamond for $5531 with Pricescope discount.

link

It is one of Whiteflash’s Expert Selections.
It’s Idealscope photo shows it to be a superb cut.
This will be a very sparkly diamond.

1.12 carat H SI1 per AGS
HAC score is 1.5 Ex Ex Ex Vg

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2006 12:39:20 PM
Author: tweeanna
Wow that is one beautiful stone Kenny. I was thinking about Mara''s suggestion of keeping the color grade of G, or I might even go down to color H and also to a lower clarity like eye clean SI1 (I think I would feel more confortable with an Si1 because the inclusion would be outside of the table and not in it). That way I can go up to 1.30 or 1.49 cts. I want to stay under 1.50 cts. I read somewhere, that prices for stones that are in the 0.99cts, 1.49cts, 1.99cts etc are lower compare to the full 1.00cts, 1.50cts, 2.00cts etc. My budget is around 6K. I spent $6,800 on the 1.26 ct G VS1 (I think this is the true grade versus the VVS1 they told me). I will try to get a refund, but I know for sure that I will not get that amount back. I will have to just take the loss if they agree to do the refund for me. Now looking back, I wonder if I paid too much. If and when I get the money back, I''m definitely going to try the online route.

I also tried to do the diamond search on WhiteFlash, but so many comes up that I''m so confused and not sure which ones are the good ones. I guess that''s because I''m still don''t know how to read all those angles, depths, tables etc. I just tend to look for the diameter that I want and that''s it.

no, the problem is....you didn''t pay enough for a well cut and correctly graded stone. i''m chinese,i know how these chinese jeweler operate,they ain''t gonna give away a $10,000 stone for $6800.

here''s a beautifully cut G SI1 1.35ct H&A for $8600.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/classic.php?page=forsale.htm

 

[tweeanna]

Dancing Fire,

This is before I know about online diamonds, I thought the stone I bought was expensive since I have nothing to compare it to. But when I learned of Pricescope and checked all the prices of the stones similiar to the color and clarity of the stone that I have, I realized that my stone price''s is too low and that there must be something wrong with it for it to be that low. I guess if I haven''t found pricescope by accident while looking for new settings, I wouldn''t have known that. I''ve always wondered why my updated stone does not flashes or sparkles as much as my old stone, now I know why..it''s because of the CUT! I remember whenever I go to the food court in the mall with my children, my old stone would sparkle lke crazy and when I went to the mall for the first time with my upgraded stone, I didn''t see the same sparkle at all. I was so disappointed. Thus, began my quest for a new stone and a new setting (even though I''m still kind of attached to my old setting).

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/22/2006 4:03:46 PM
Author: tweeanna
Dancing Fire,

This is before I know about online diamonds, I thought the stone I bought was expensive since I have nothing to compare it to. But when I learned of Pricescope and checked all the prices of the stones similiar to the color and clarity of the stone that I have, I realized that my stone price''s is too low and that there must be something wrong with it for it to be that low. I guess if I haven''t found pricescope by accident while looking for new settings, I wouldn''t have known that. I''ve always wondered why my updated stone does not flashes or sparkles as much as my old stone, now I know why..it''s because of the CUT! I remember whenever I go to the food court in the mall with my children, my old stone would sparkle lke crazy and when I went to the mall for the first time with my upgraded stone, I didn''t see the same sparkle at all. I was so disappointed. Thus, began my quest for a new stone and a new setting (even though I''m still kind of attached to my old setting).

without more information,i''m just guessing base on the price you paid. ask yourself this Q...why wasn''t this stone send to AGS or GIA lab

 

[kenny]

tweeanna, the answer is, "because AGS or GIA would NOT have given this stone a G VVS1.

The best labs get the best stones.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/22/2006 4:03:46 PM
Author: tweeanna
Dancing Fire,

This is before I know about online diamonds, I thought the stone I bought was expensive since I have nothing to compare it to. But when I learned of Pricescope and checked all the prices of the stones similiar to the color and clarity of the stone that I have, I realized that my stone price''s is too low and that there must be something wrong with it for it to be that low. I guess if I haven''t found pricescope by accident while looking for new settings, I wouldn''t have known that. I''ve always wondered why my updated stone does not flashes or sparkles as much as my old stone, now I know why..it''s because of the CUT! I remember whenever I go to the food court in the mall with my children, my old stone would sparkle lke crazy and when I went to the mall for the first time with my upgraded stone, I didn''t see the same sparkle at all. I was so disappointed. Thus, began my quest for a new stone and a new setting (even though I''m still kind of attached to my old setting).

I love your old setting! Try putting all of your budget into a new (well cut) stone and using the same setting If you aren''t afraid to go from H to I or J or even K (you should see some of them - they''re *truly* amazing) you can afford a really good cut, good clarity, AND the size you want! This ring is my *favorite* on PS thus far... https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-k.48040/ The setting is different, but so am I and when I see this I find it more inspirational than I wish it was since i''m looking for another cut LOL

 

[tweeanna]

Cehra,

I guess you''re right. It''s probably better to take the money that I would have spent on the new setting and put it into the new stone. But a quick question to you and to everyone else here...once I found the stone that I like from one of the online diamond dealers that you all recommend here, do you think they would set the stone into my old setting if I send the setting to them? Or do they only set the diamond into a setting that is theirs? If I know the one that would do it, then I would only focus on buying only stones from them. But I guess that would limit my selections then.

Another question is, if I found an online dealer that would set the stone into the old setting, this would require the diamond to be sent back and forth (3 times). Is it better that once I found the stone that I like, send them the setting, have them set it and send it back so I can view it and then if I like the stone, I keep it. If not, can I still send the stone and setting back and they can unset the stone and send back my setting? In a way, I would be able to see how the stone would look like in my setting before I decide to buy it? Does that sound possible?

 

[tweeanna]

In response to Dancing Fire and Kenny, I agree with both of you. Without certifiied papers, I won''t know it''s TRUE
color, clarity and cut.

 

[fire&ice]

I want to chime in that certed stones with pedigrees are a thing of the present. Diamonds DO NOT need a GIA or AGS to be what they purport to be. Our first stone did not come with any cert. 20+ years ago, it just wasn''t done. When I had it appraised by another jeweler years later, it was graded with BETTER specs than what was sold. Old timey jewelers can be perfectly content and competent to grade a diamond w/o a cert. The notion that diamonds with certs are somehow "better" is an urban myth.

If you are buying over the net or without counsel of an independent appraiser than perhaps going with a "certed" diamond makes sense. But, it is not the end all of finding a FINE diamond.

From the pictures presented nobody can ASSume that your diamond is poorly cut or is anything but a G VVS1 stone. If you want piece of mind about the stone you have, then get it independently appraised (as best as they can in the setting). If visually you are unhappy, then return it and move on.

Good luck. P.S. - I like the 1/2 bezel set you have - it''s interesting. Too much metal for my little short fingers - but would have good presense on someone other than me.

 

[kenny]

I agree with you fire&ice.
But this is not an old stone.

She just bought it, and was told it was 1.26 carat G VVS1 for $6000.
We all know that''s too good to be true.
That is all I''m addressing.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/23/2006 10:15:26 AM
Author: kenny
I agree with you fire&ice.
But this is not an old stone.

She just bought it, and was told it was 1.26 carat G VVS1 for $6000.
We all know that''s too good to be true.
That is all I''m addressing.

I know where you are coming from. However, internet diamond dealers w/ AGS or GIA certs don''t have a lock on Fine stones. It''s such a prevailing theme on here - that I offer a different perspective relative to the diamond industry. Diamond dealers are dinosaures that still practice old school. My guess is that this diamond dealer is such.

Could be the stone isn''t what it''s suppose to be. But, without verification - no one here can nix this stone based on price alone. No one knows what the specifics of how the stone came to be.

All I''m saying is that there exists little absolutes with diamonds/diamond buying. Even if it''s not a G VVS1, it still could be a good diamond at a good price. Everything is relative.

Maybe it''s me coming from my perspective where in my industry - the price you pay for an item in doesn''t necessarily reflect it''s actual value. Where one purchases an item could hold to moniker of quality - but price is subjective & relative to place.

And, while the set would not look good on me, I like it.

Done with my rant for the day.

 

[kenny]

I understand.
"Buy the diamond not the paper."

But the main issue is this.
I'm not a gemologist.
I'm just a buyer looking at a product in which very small differences, that I cannot even see, change the price by thousands of dollars.
How do I "know" I'm getting what the seller claims?

Lab reports help.
Without them I have to trust the word of the seller.
Sure even with reports there could be stone-swapping going on, but that's another thread.

And Yes, while it is absolutely impossible that this customer really got a 1.26 G VVS1 (by GIA or AGS standards) it IS possible that $6000 was a fair price for what she got.
We don't know.
There is no independent report, or independent competent appraisal.

Granted, paper does not change the stone.
It is just, supposedly, accurate and independent information about the stone.

I would not recommend anyone but a gemologist buy a diamond without a report from a reputable lab.

 

[tweeanna]

Actually I had the stone since the beginning of the year, so I really can''t return it persay. I apologize if I gave the wrong impression that I just bought it. I guess when I said to return it in the previous posts, I was mentally thinking that I might sell it back to them at a loss than trying to sell it out there to the public. Quick question for Fire&Ice and Kenny....As Fire&Ice suggested...I might go to an appraisar to see what he says this stone''s clarity and color might be. That way I can use this infomation if it''s not what it is, to return/resell the stone. I know it might not be an exact determination since it''s already set in the ring. But it would give me an idea of how close it is to what it''s suppose to be. Should I tell the appraiser what the color and clarity is BEFORE he appraise the ring, or should I wait until he tells me what he think it is. I''m afraid that if I tell him what the color and quality is first, it might affect his judgement...if you know what I mean..

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/23/2006 10:56:50 AM
Author: fire&ice

I know where you are coming from. However, internet diamond dealers w/ AGS or GIA certs don''t have a lock on Fine stones. It''s such a prevailing theme on here - that I offer a different perspective relative to the diamond industry. Diamond dealers are dinosaures that still practice old school. My guess is that this diamond dealer is such.

Could be the stone isn''t what it''s suppose to be. But, without verification - no one here can nix this stone based on price alone. No one knows what the specifics of how the stone came to be.

All I''m saying is that there exists little absolutes with diamonds/diamond buying. Even if it''s not a G VVS1, it still could be a good diamond at a good price. Everything is relative.

F&I
just b/c he''s a dinosaure dealer,that doesn''t mean he''ll give away a few thousand buck.

maybe tweeanna bought the stone base on the fact that she was told it was a G VVS1 and the jeweler convince her this was a great deal.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/23/2006 12:04:17 PM
Author: tweeanna
Actually I had the stone since the beginning of the year, so I really can''t return it persay. I apologize if I gave the wrong impression that I just bought it. I guess when I said to return it in the previous posts, I was mentally thinking that I might sell it back to them at a loss than trying to sell it out there to the public. Quick question for Fire&Ice and Kenny....As Fire&Ice suggested...I might go to an appraisar to see what he says this stone''s clarity and color might be. That way I can use this infomation if it''s not what it is, to return/resell the stone. I know it might not be an exact determination since it''s already set in the ring. But it would give me an idea of how close it is to what it''s suppose to be. Should I tell the appraiser what the color and clarity is BEFORE he appraise the ring, or should I wait until he tells me what he think it is. I''m afraid that if I tell him what the color and quality is first, it might affect his judgement...if you know what I mean..

did you paid cash for the stone? i would take the stone out before taking it or sending it to an independent appraiser.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/23/2006 12:47:57 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/23/2006 10:56:50 AM
Author: fire&ice


I know where you are coming from. However, internet diamond dealers w/ AGS or GIA certs don''t have a lock on Fine stones. It''s such a prevailing theme on here - that I offer a different perspective relative to the diamond industry. Diamond dealers are dinosaures that still practice old school. My guess is that this diamond dealer is such.

Could be the stone isn''t what it''s suppose to be. But, without verification - no one here can nix this stone based on price alone. No one knows what the specifics of how the stone came to be.

All I''m saying is that there exists little absolutes with diamonds/diamond buying. Even if it''s not a G VVS1, it still could be a good diamond at a good price. Everything is relative.

F&I
just b/c he''s a dinosaure dealer,that doesn''t mean he''ll give away a few thousand buck.

maybe tweeanna bought the stone base on the fact that she was told it was a G VVS1 and the jeweler convince her this was a great deal.

If this consumer has anything that indicates that the stone is a g vvs1 and an appraisal comes back that it is something different, she could have leverage to be refunded in full.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/23/2006 2:14:54 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/23/2006 12:47:57 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 7/23/2006 10:56:50 AM
Author: fire&ice



I know where you are coming from. However, internet diamond dealers w/ AGS or GIA certs don''t have a lock on Fine stones. It''s such a prevailing theme on here - that I offer a different perspective relative to the diamond industry. Diamond dealers are dinosaures that still practice old school. My guess is that this diamond dealer is such.

Could be the stone isn''t what it''s suppose to be. But, without verification - no one here can nix this stone based on price alone. No one knows what the specifics of how the stone came to be.

All I''m saying is that there exists little absolutes with diamonds/diamond buying. Even if it''s not a G VVS1, it still could be a good diamond at a good price. Everything is relative.

F&I
just b/c he''s a dinosaure dealer,that doesn''t mean he''ll give away a few thousand buck.

maybe tweeanna bought the stone base on the fact that she was told it was a G VVS1 and the jeweler convince her this was a great deal.

If this consumer has anything that indicates that the stone is a g vvs1 and an appraisal comes back that it is something different, she could have leverage to be refunded in full.

Actually one of the appraisers can chime in here - but I think for "fraud" the grades have to be off by two. Still O.K. if it''s an I VS1.

And, in the end, she may have paid a fair price for the specs.

 

[kenny]

But the threat of legal action may result in a fast refund to make her go away.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/23/2006 7:40:26 PM
Author: kenny
But the threat of legal action may result in a fast refund to make her go away.

Ahh - or dig their heels in say "so sue me"...

 

[kenny]

Sure.

Then she's right back where she started from.
Nothing lost.

She won't know unless she gives it a try.

It's worth a try, I say.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 7/23/2006 4:17:31 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 7/23/2006 2:14:54 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

If this consumer has anything that indicates that the stone is a g vvs1 and an appraisal comes back that it is something different, she could have leverage to be refunded in full.

Actually one of the appraisers can chime in here - but I think for ''fraud'' the grades have to be off by two. Still O.K. if it''s an I VS1.

And, in the end, she may have paid a fair price for the specs.

of course I don''t *know* but it could be the cut itself that discounted the price... any chance it could be the stats the guy gave her but just a whacky cut that cut the price?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 7/23/2006 11:24:35 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

of course I don''t *know* but it could be the cut itself that discounted the price... any chance it could be the stats the guy gave her but just a whacky cut that cut the price?

whacky cut,yes!!! G VVS1 ?? no way Jose

.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/23/2006 11:24:35 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 7/23/2006 4:17:31 PM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 7/23/2006 2:14:54 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

If this consumer has anything that indicates that the stone is a g vvs1 and an appraisal comes back that it is something different, she could have leverage to be refunded in full.

Actually one of the appraisers can chime in here - but I think for ''fraud'' the grades have to be off by two. Still O.K. if it''s an I VS1.

And, in the end, she may have paid a fair price for the specs.

of course I don''t *know* but it could be the cut itself that discounted the price... any chance it could be the stats the guy gave her but just a whacky cut that cut the price?

Yes, of course it could. Pricing isn''t static. This was a year ago. One doesn''t know how this dealer came to get this stone. No business owner is going to pass on a bird in a hand if it''s necessary for cash flow. My guess it''s a little of everything. Soft grading, not the finest make, something else going on - did he make money on another aspect of the business transaction?

Point is - NOBODY can be sure about anything on this board. Her most prudent course of action is to HAVE THE DIAMOND APPRAISED. Nothing can be done or ASSumed aside from that. The pictures show a diamond that isn''t frozen spit yellow. It *appears* white. Aside from the table being a tad large (not grossly), nothing seems to be totally off with the cut.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/23/2006 8:28:49 PM
Author: kenny
Sure.

Then she''s right back where she started from.
Nothing lost.

She won''t know unless she gives it a try.

It''s worth a try, I say.

Yes, but NOTHING can be done without an independent appraisal. She doesn''t know what she has except what the dealer has provided.

 

[kenny]

Okay.
You win.
I give up.
You are right.
Forgive me for existing.
What EVER what I thinking?

Excuse me, I'll just go kill myself now.

 

[fire&ice]

Glad I won. You needed to beat yourself up a bit; but, I didn''t think you needed to kill yourself.

It''s just not that easy an answer when people get themselves in this situation. Which BTW, supports your recommendation to buy a certed diamond.

 

[kenny]

I'm sorry I can't answer.

I'm dead.

 

[asscherisme]

Hey Kenny,

Are you OK? You seem to be in a downer of a mood today.