He''s Just Not That Into You? some thoughts...

[Laila619]

Hi ladies. I''m new here, and I''ve been reading for a while! I''m in pretty much the same boat as most of you...I''ve met a wonderful man who has yet to propose. We do not live together, and we''ve been together 14 months.

The thing is though, deep down I question why all of us who want to get engaged haven''t gotten engaged yet. I read the book He''s Just Not That Into You, and the author makes a LOT of sense. He says that when a man is into a woman, he marries her. PERIOD. That has been my experience as well, the men I know who were crazy in love with their girlfriends proposed, and most under 1.5 years. They didn''t need to be prodded along, or given talks, ultimatums, or deadlines. They happily proposed on their own, and were very eager to do it. They did not offer financial excuses as to why they weren''t "ready" or any of that hooey. Most men I''ve talked to (guy friends and male relatives) say that almost everything a guy says to delay engagement is an excuse, because when a man doesn''t want to lose his woman he gets engaged regardless of whether it''s the perfect time (and really is there even such a thing as the perfect time?) When a man doesn''t want to propose to his girl, he''ll cite numerous excuses we''ve probably all heard before: he''s too young, not financially stable, wants to get more established in his career, marriage is too scary of a step, he doesn''t believe in marriage, etc. So I''m wondering, can we conclude that these guys who are dragging their feet are secretly perhaps Just Not That Into us?

My friend''s husband proposed to her after just 5 months, and he was young and didn''t have much money. She never had to talk to him about engagement at all, he did it on his own. He couldn''t wait ONE second more to make her his wife. They have been happily married for going on 7 years now. Don''t we all deserve to have men who are eager and anxious to marry us? When a man cites excuses to his girlfriend as to why he isn''t ready, it seems to me that he''d have to feel very sure of himself in order to tell her those things, because he expects her to wait around forever for him. Perhaps we need to keep our men on their toes a bit more and subtly imply that we won''t be around forever if they don''t propose. But it seems that waiting around for 5, 6, even 7 years is NOT the answer. Nor does it make us happy!

It makes me sad to know that I want to get engaged to my boyfriend right now, but he obviously isn''t as eager. If he were, there''d be a ring on my finger, no excuses.

Maybe we need to find men who are more eager to make us their fiancees. I don''t know. What do you think?

 

[JulieN]

Someone who doesn't think you are The One right now can think you are The One later. This process can take a while, and your mileage may vary.

But I agree. Once you have both decided that you are the ones for each other, marriage should be a "whenever you want, honey" type of thing. Maybe I've just been very lucky with boyfriends.

 

[icet]

I think it depends on the situation. my sister got engaged after 1 year of dating her DH but she was done with school and they were both financially stable. me on the other hand, i had been dating my DH since freshman year of college and got engaged after i graduated from school and got a job which was about 8 years after we started dating. it was a cute idea to get engaged while i was in school but i was no where near being ready to get engaged and DH knew it. I asked if he was pushed into getting engaged,(all our friends would ask when and how we would get engaged for years) and he told me that he wanted to do it years before but knew that i would not be able to get married and didn''t want to distract me while i was studying my booty off!
on the other hand, i do know someone who uses the excuse of not being financially stable all the time but accidentally blurted out that he wasn''t sure that he wanted to marry his gf of four years.

I guess it really depends on the guy and hopefully his SO can tell if the barriers stopping them from getting engaged at this moment is the real deal or get out while she can if it''s not.
my .2

good luck

 

[Bia]

Laila: I agree to an extent. However, many times its not about the men. It can be about us, or the couple or the circumstances. My boyfriend and I have been in love for many years. I met him when I was 20 and I am 26 now. When we met he was my only real relationship (still is) and there was a lot to be learned. He has been telling me from way back then that he wants to marry me and I have thought the same--but I had doubts and now I no longer do because I have enough experience to know he is one thing I need in my life (I use the term need lightly). I can say with strong conviction that I know I was NOT ready until the last year or so.

Marriage is a big commitment. I don't know many men who want to marry in their early 20's but I do know one in particular, my brother. He is getting married this year and he is only 24. He is an easy going person and the woman he is marrying is his only real girlfriend. I think many of us are more practical about how we do things. Yes love can be a whirlwind of romance and extravagance or it can be logical and planned...thought out. OR it can be both. We each have different experiences. I don't know that you can apply the marriage thing to the recent phenomenon of what a few men have coined "not being that into you,"the book and the whole idea, I think anyway, has a lot to do with why men don't try or make an effort with women. I agree when a man is interested, he makes the effort to call, to see you, to do whatever it takes to be with the woman he loves, BUT marriage is complicated, its for life and I don't know that many people CAN be carefree about something that is supposed to be for life...meaning its not necessary in order to make an exclamation of real love.

That being said I do think that book is smart and more women should look for signs of a man who doesn't really love you. The bottom line is, when a man loves you he puts you in every equation, even puts your needs right next to his or before his. If you have that, then you have a man who loves you.

 

[JulieN]

I wish the edit window was longer. Oh, well.

It really depends on the individual and what they think is "right." Issues arise when one person thinks how things should be is not how the other person thinks things should be. I don''t want to say that guys who proclaim they want to be more stable are trying to buy more time. The "we can get married anytime, anywhere" is how things should be for me, but there is not one way to do this.

 

[Hera]

My own experience is this: I was with a man for five years and we broke up because I told him he needed to make up his mind if he wanted to get married or not. He kept saying he wasn''t ready and I kept on wondering why. He had a great job, he was in his thirties and there was fabulous me. Whenever we saw people get married he would say negative things like, I wonder when they''ll get divorced. He wasn''t from a broken home or anything, as his parents were happily married. It disheartened me that he felt that way about marriage and although I understood his concern for divorce I was always the optimist. I didn''t want to be with someone I had to drag into the marriage grudgingly, I wanted someone who couldn''t live another moment without being married to me and whom looked forward to getting married. Unfortunately, at the age of 22 I was willing to settle with his less than eager attitude and gave him some time to gather his thoughts and make a decision about if he was willing to ever get married. We took a three month separation.

Two months later, I met my now husband and he was what I was looking for: someone with positive thoughts who believed marriage was a lifetime commitment that had it''s ups and downs. We''ve been married for ten years and our relationship is still going strong! My ex boyfriend is around forty something and still unmarried.

While I believe that you should marry someone that is into you and I agree with some of the thoughts from the book, I do know that there are many relationships that unfold over time. I don''t think there''s anything wrong with that as long as they''re both on the same page.

I do think that women that are waiting to get engaged should do a little internal check. From my *almost* tragic mistake of marrying the wrong person, I think women should ask themselves if they believe they are with the right person for them, Do they have similar values (including marriage), a relationship not in constant turmoil, and contain two people who are into each other. I feel it''s important for both the man and women to be into each other because they will both need to fight for their marriage.

 

[Bia]

Date: 4/28/2008 8:55:00 PM
Author: heraanderson
My own experience is this: I was with a man for five years and we broke up because I told him he needed to make up his mind if he wanted to get married or not. He kept saying he wasn''t ready and I kept on wondering why. He had a great job, he was in his thirties and there was fabulous me. Whenever we saw people get married he would say negative things like, I wonder when they''ll get divorced. He wasn''t from a broken home or anything, as his parents were happily married. It disheartened me that he felt that way about marriage and although I understood his concern for divorce I was always the optimist. I didn''t want to be with someone I had to drag into the marriage grudgingly, I wanted someone who couldn''t live another moment without being married to me and whom looked forward to getting married. Unfortunately, at the age of 22 I was willing to settle with his less than eager attitude and gave him some time to gather his thoughts and make a decision about if he was willing to ever get married. We took a three month separation.


Two months later, I met my now husband and he was what I was looking for: someone with positive thoughts who believed marriage was a lifetime commitment that had it''s ups and downs. We''ve been married for ten years and our relationship is still going strong! My ex boyfriend is around forty something and still unmarried.


While I believe that you should marry someone that is into you and I agree with some of the thoughts from the book, I do know that there are many relationships that unfold over time. I don''t think there''s anything wrong with that as long as they''re both on the same page.


I do think that women that are waiting to get engaged should do a little internal check. From my *almost* tragic mistake of marrying the wrong person, I think women should ask themselves if they believe they are with the right person for them, Do they have similar values (including marriage), a relationship not in constant turmoil, and contain two people who are into each other. I feel it''s important for both the man and women to be into each other because they will both need to fight for their marriage.

I AGREE 100%

 

[Miscka]

What do I think? I think it is scary how many times I have thought those things. I could have written your post verbatim. And I dont have any real answers.

The only thing I can say, is that I trust my BF. I trust that he wants to marry me, that he is saving, etc. because this is what he tells me. However, there were MANY times I wasn''t sure since he was not as eager as I. The longer I know him, the more I understand that that is the way he loves me. A slow, very genuine, patient, all-conditions love. That is who he is. It took him longer to get here, but in my heart I know that is because he MEANS it, and he needed that time. But it was worth it.

Of course, ask me this in a few months and I may be wanting to DIE from waiting, lol.

Anyway, I hope others chime in because this topic is very interesting to me.

And welcome to PS!!!

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

I agree. It very individual and depends on your life circumstances. It makes no sense to get married when you are not financially stable. Not only do you need to pay for a ring, but for a wedding, and a house. It''s a pretty unfair generalization to say that if a man truly loves you, he will marry you, no questions asked... Everything has to happen in it''s right time, and like others have said, marriage is a HUGE commitment.

I also think that generally speaking, men rather get married later than women. It''s sexest for sure, but think about it, men can have kids well into their 60''s and 70''s where women tap out in their early 40''s... I find more of my guy friends are in no rush to get married until their 30''s, whereas all my girlfriends are dying to get married in their 20''s... oh how life is unfair....

 

[CNOS128]

I dunno. I think if someone proposed to me after 5 months I''d say "no."
People need time to get to know each other, and that time''s not the same for everyone.

I agree some of the excuses are suspect, some of the time. I''ve known girls who dated guys for years who gave all sorts of excuses about why they didn''t want to get married, and then as soon as they broke up the guys were engaged within a few months.
But I also have a friend who didn''t believe in marriage. He loved his girlfriend more than anything, and she wanted to get married after about a year. But he really didn''t believe in it, the idea of marriage was completely unappealing. Not because he couldn''t commit, and not because he didn''t love her, not because it was "hooey." After 4 years of dating, he proposed, because he knew that was the only way to keep her in his life, and happy. But it was a long wait for her.

I think, depending on how old you are, that 14 months isn''t that long. But it''s long enough that, if marriage is your goal, you can and should have a talk with your wonderful man, and find out just how eager he is (or isn''t).

 

[Laila619]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:00:02 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
I agree. It very individual and depends on your life circumstances. It makes no sense to get married when you are not financially stable. Not only do you need to pay for a ring, but for a wedding, and a house. It''s a pretty unfair generalization to say that if a man truly loves you, he will marry you, no questions asked... Everything has to happen in it''s right time, and like others have said, marriage is a HUGE commitment.

I also think that generally speaking, men rather get married later than women. It''s sexest for sure, but think about it, men can have kids well into their 60''s and 70''s where women tap out in their early 40''s... I find more of my guy friends are in no rush to get married until their 30''s, whereas all my girlfriends are dying to get married in their 20''s... oh how life is unfair....

You don''t have to be financially stable to get engaged though. All it takes is a ring and the words "Will you marry me" uttered from the man. That''s why I (and most of my male friends) think finances is an excuse. You can always get engaged and have a long engagement if there are concerns about affording a wedding and a house. I think a lot of men DON''T want to propose nowadays because they are comfortable to put it simply. They have ready access to companionship, sex, affection, etc. They don''t need to propose to get that, so why should they break out of their comfort zone and rock the boat so to speak? Especially if we women will continue to wait around forever, there''s certainly no sense of urgency for the men then. Perhaps we women need to be more of a challenge with our SOs. We need to be sweet and loving, but not too much of a sure thing. Hold back a little and make them earn it by becoming our fiances/husbands, ya know? I don''t have all the answers, but it''s frustrating seeing so many successful, beautiful women waiting around all anxious.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Well I totally used to agree with you. But then I realized, most engagement rings cost a fortune (nice ones I would want at least), and once you are engaged, the whole point is to get married, isn''t it? So you have to save for the wedding, which can cost upwards of 50 g, and hopefully save to buy a house/condo etc... So really, the engagement ring is just the first step in a long line of spending..

What''s the point of getting engaged if you are waiting around for 2 years to get married? You could just as easly break up during that wait time- and the ring on your finger in now way "secures" the relationship. I just think people should get married when they are ready, emotionally and financially. Finances can be an unbelievable stressor on a relationship if not considered in detail.

At the end of the day to each their own but I know for me personally, my bf and I needed to wait to be completely ready, mostly financially, before taking the next step.

 

[dogmama]

In my situation I was the one who wasn''t ready. I was crazy into my FI. We were HS sweethearts, but I just wasn''t sold on the idea of getting married. I come from separated parents and he has parents that argue all the time. So for the both of us we were a little timid about the whole thing. BUT he literally woke up one day and thought, I want to marry her. (I kid not and I crack up at this.)

I however, was not like this. I needed to take time in the relationship to really feel comfortable with the idea. I always knew and pictured him as my SO, but actually thinking about committing 2-3 years ago made me break out in a sweat. Literally. YET he was understanding enough to love me unconditionally until I was ready. He knew it wasn''t him that was the issue, just the fear of commitment. He was patient and cared enough to wait till I was ready, and he says that it was hard knowing he wanted to marry me but also knowing I was on the fence. But he would have been with me forever because he knew I loved him too.

In the end, I''m so thankful he waited. After weathering life''s punches with him for 2-3 years, I realized one day I was completely happy and that marriage was something I could look forward to if our partnership worked so well together. When I was finally ready it was like a 180! I bugged him all the time and he laughed and he would say, "How do you think I feel waiting so long?" I''m surprised he doesn''t resent me!

So I guess what I want to say is that, it might not be that he doesn''t love you enough. He might just not like the idea of marriage. And while it''s not easy to try to separate that from your personal feelings, it might be one way to think of it. Your SO might love you to bits. Don''t think of it as him not loving you enough or not into you. It wouldn''t be fair to make him want to do something he truly wasn''t ready for. I know that what has made this whole engagement so much sweeter is that he knows I want this just as much as he does, and it required nothing more than him waiting for me to be ready.

Just my .02.

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:13:42 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 4/28/2008 9:00:02 PM

Author: ilovethiswebsite

I agree. It very individual and depends on your life circumstances. It makes no sense to get married when you are not financially stable. Not only do you need to pay for a ring, but for a wedding, and a house. It''s a pretty unfair generalization to say that if a man truly loves you, he will marry you, no questions asked... Everything has to happen in it''s right time, and like others have said, marriage is a HUGE commitment.


I also think that generally speaking, men rather get married later than women. It''s sexest for sure, but think about it, men can have kids well into their 60''s and 70''s where women tap out in their early 40''s... I find more of my guy friends are in no rush to get married until their 30''s, whereas all my girlfriends are dying to get married in their 20''s... oh how life is unfair....

You don''t have to be financially stable to get engaged though. All it takes is a ring and the words ''Will you marry me'' uttered from the man. That''s why I (and most of my male friends) think finances is an excuse. You can always get engaged and have a long engagement if there are concerns about affording a wedding and a house. I think a lot of men DON''T want to propose nowadays because they are comfortable to put it simply. They have ready access to companionship, sex, affection, etc. They don''t need to propose to get that, so why should they break out of their comfort zone and rock the boat so to speak? Especially if we women will continue to wait around forever, there''s certainly no sense of urgency for the men then. Perhaps we women need to be more of a challenge with our SOs. We need to be sweet and loving, but not too much of a sure thing. Hold back a little and make them earn it by becoming our fiances/husbands, ya know? I don''t have all the answers, but it''s frustrating seeing so many successful, beautiful women waiting around all anxious.

Well sometimes I really see Laila''s point of view, because of the way society views women. I mean, let''s face it, people see a girl (anywhere, single, in a relationship etc) and people assume she wants to get married, and often times they''ll also assume she''ll want to marry whoever it is she''s with. Unfortunately, the same assumption doesn''t hold true for men. So it''s a status symbol to be engaged, it declares publicly that whoever SHE is with WANTS TO MARRY HER. I think the whole image thing can be hard for a lot of people, especially if you''ve been raised to "save face". But in the end, I think when you play into these symbols, you can easily lose focus of the heart of the matter: if you two are right for each other.

Just to add: even I have heard gossip and whispering when 2 people were engaged and planned to stay engaged for 4 years. A lot of women were saying: what''s the hold up? If you''re engaged you should get married. It seems like you really can''t win. People will question you no matter what you do.

Last but not least, some of us girls would rather wait a while longer so that our SOs could save a little more and get the dream ring we want

and of course, that they want us to have.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

Date: 4/28/2008 9:48:50 PM
Author: moderatelypoorstudent

Date: 4/28/2008 9:13:42 PM

Author: Laila619

Date: 4/28/2008 9:00:02 PM


Author: ilovethiswebsite


I agree. It very individual and depends on your life circumstances. It makes no sense to get married when you are not financially stable. Not only do you need to pay for a ring, but for a wedding, and a house. It''s a pretty unfair generalization to say that if a man truly loves you, he will marry you, no questions asked... Everything has to happen in it''s right time, and like others have said, marriage is a HUGE commitment.



I also think that generally speaking, men rather get married later than women. It''s sexest for sure, but think about it, men can have kids well into their 60''s and 70''s where women tap out in their early 40''s... I find more of my guy friends are in no rush to get married until their 30''s, whereas all my girlfriends are dying to get married in their 20''s... oh how life is unfair....

You don''t have to be financially stable to get engaged though. All it takes is a ring and the words ''Will you marry me'' uttered from the man. That''s why I (and most of my male friends) think finances is an excuse. You can always get engaged and have a long engagement if there are concerns about affording a wedding and a house. I think a lot of men DON''T want to propose nowadays because they are comfortable to put it simply. They have ready access to companionship, sex, affection, etc. They don''t need to propose to get that, so why should they break out of their comfort zone and rock the boat so to speak? Especially if we women will continue to wait around forever, there''s certainly no sense of urgency for the men then. Perhaps we women need to be more of a challenge with our SOs. We need to be sweet and loving, but not too much of a sure thing. Hold back a little and make them earn it by becoming our fiances/husbands, ya know? I don''t have all the answers, but it''s frustrating seeing so many successful, beautiful women waiting around all anxious.

Well sometimes I really see Laila''s point of view, because of the way society views women. I mean, let''s face it, people see a girl (anywhere, single, in a relationship etc) and people assume she wants to get married, and often times they''ll also assume she''ll want to marry whoever it is she''s with. Unfortunately, the same assumption doesn''t hold true for men. So it''s a status symbol to be engaged, it declares publicly that whoever SHE is with WANTS TO MARRY HER. I think the whole image thing can be hard for a lot of people, especially if you''ve been raised to ''save face''. But in the end, I think when you play into these symbols, you can easily lose focus of the heart of the matter: if you two are right for each other.


Just to add: even I have heard gossip and whispering when 2 people were engaged and planned to stay engaged for 4 years. A lot of women were saying: what''s the hold up? If you''re engaged you should get married. It seems like you really can''t win. People will question you no matter what you do.


Last but not least, some of us girls would rather wait a while longer so that our SOs could save a little more and get the dream ring we want

and of course, that they want us to have.

Yes I totally agree- it is a status symbol for women but not as much so for men.... Got to love our sexest society.. and the deep rooted societal norms ingrained into our subconsciousness. Think about who is placing judgement on other ladies who are single!! It''s other women!!! Not men!!!

 

[mimzy]

i've never read the book, but i think i get the gist.

i think it is sort of an unfair statement to make. i bet that the majority of the girls on the LIW list would insist that their FF is VERY 'into' them - that they are sweet, attentive, caring, affectionate men that are crazy about them and that would give anything to be with them. i know mine was even when i was "waiting" and he was "dragging his feet". i don't think that all these boys should be held under the same scrutiny and have their love and loyalty judged the same as some other guy who is barely dating a woman.


Dating someone is not that big of a deal. marriage is HUGE. LOTS of men want to marry their girlfriends, just not RIGHT THIS SECOND, and i think a lot of the reasons are totally legit. Are there a few stallers in every bunch? sure. but if my FI and i got engaged right when we decided that we would get married, i wouldn't have blamed others for calling us crazy, as we were both still in school and had only been dating a couple months at most.

Besides legit circumstantial reasons, it takes a lot of work to get emotionally prepared to get engaged. and dare i say, i sometimes think that men are more aware of this than women (even if they don't use the phrase "emotionally prepared"). I waited more than six months past the "circumstantial reasons" expired....i was waiting on FI to prepare himself for the major step he was about to take. but i never questioned his love for me, because he never let me forget that he loved me more than anything. would it have been nice if he just "couldn't stand to wait one more day"? sure. but i think those guys are a lot more rare than we probably think.

i have a really good friend that is CRAZY about his girlfriend. loves her to death. obsesses about her. does crazy romantic things for her. wants to marry her. they are both out of school and have good jobs. he won't even THINK about getting married or engaged for another three years (they've been together for one). it's a very personal thing that goes a lot deeper than whether or not the guy is "into" the girl.

sorry for being so long winded! i just wanted to put that out there in defense of all the poor guys out there being accused that they don't really love their girlfriends

and JulieN i'm not sure if this is part of the post you meant to edit, but i would never think it should be a "whenever you want, honey" type of thing. that implies that the man is completely passive about the whole engagement decision and should have no right to do it on his own time. like our demands are the end all be all of the relationship....

 

[misscuppycake]

Well I first want to start by saying I LOVED that book! So clever and truly informative. Now, I will agree that if a man is with a woman that he loves, he will want to marry her. However, if I was proposed to and we had only been dating 1.5 years and were in fact quite financially unstable, I would without a doubt say "no". Just because someone wants to marry me doesn''t mean I want him to start acting irrationally in the name of love.

 

[neatfreak]

I agree to an extent. A man who is really into his girl will want to marry her without prodding, when the time is right!

But that timing piece is really important too IMO. Sometimes it just isn't the right time. And timing is something you just can't control. I think that piece is really important when some girls try to force their BF's into proposing and is something that people forget a bit too often. When a couple is on completely different pages in terms of timing, it can create major rifts, one after another (engagenment, wedding, baby, etc.).

If you fall into the category where everything in your life is in place nicely, and you feel that your guy is just making excuses why he wants to put it off, then THAT is the time to cut and run IMO.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 4/28/2008 10:17:32 PM
Author: neatfreak
I agree to an extent. A man who is really into his girl will want to marry her without prodding, when the time is right!

But that timing piece is really important too IMO. Sometimes it just isn't the right time. And timing is something you just can't control. I think that piece is really important when some girls try to force their BF's into proposing and is something that people forget a bit too often. When a couple is on completely different pages in terms of timing, it can create major rifts, one after another (engagenment, wedding, baby, etc.).

If you fall into the category where everything in your life is in place nicely, and you feel that your guy is just making excuses why he wants to put it off, then THAT is the time to cut and run IMO.

Hmm. But I wonder...if two people are really in love, what would make the timing be different for the guy and girl? Unless you're in school or under say age 22, I can't think of truly valid objections. When a man is truly, madly in love, he generally doesn't need lots of time. He's usually more than ready, hence the short dating period. I don't think it should take 6 or 7 years to decide if someone is the One. Either the couple is super ambivalent about the idea of marriage, or perhaps the couple is ambivalent about each other. The author thinks that when a man truly loves a woman, he proposes to her and marries her in a reasonable amount of time, without dragging his feet.

My boyfriend is a slow mover, no doubt. And I respect that. But I will not wait for him forever. If he doesn't eagerly want to marry me, then I will be forced to move on and find someone who does! It will suck, but I won't waste my childbearing years on an ambivalent man who may not ever commit. Ya know?

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

What is a reasonable amount of time?

Break it down for us:
1. years of dating
2. years of engagement
3. sum total


For me:

1. willing to date 4 years at my age, in my current relationshp, will decrease by 1 year with each few years that I age. for example: by age 30, I myself, will only be willing to date for 1.5 years to get engaged.
2. years of engagement: 1 or less
3. 5 years at my age with my current SO.

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 4/28/2008 10:34:44 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 4/28/2008 10:17:32 PM

Author: neatfreak

I agree to an extent. A man who is really into his girl will want to marry her without prodding, when the time is right!


But that timing piece is really important too IMO. Sometimes it just isn''t the right time. And timing is something you just can''t control. I think that piece is really important when some girls try to force their BF''s into proposing and is something that people forget a bit too often. When a couple is on completely different pages in terms of timing, it can create major rifts, one after another (engagenment, wedding, baby, etc.).


If you fall into the category where everything in your life is in place nicely, and you feel that your guy is just making excuses why he wants to put it off, then THAT is the time to cut and run IMO.

Hmm. But I wonder...if two people are really in love, what would make the timing be different for the guy and girl? Unless you''re in school or under say age 22, I can''t think of truly valid objections. When a man is truly, madly in love, he generally doesn''t need lots of time. He''s usually more than ready, hence the short dating period. I don''t think it should take 6 or 7 years to decide if someone is the One. Either the couple is super ambivalent about the idea of marriage, or perhaps the couple is ambivalent about each other. The author thinks that when a man truly loves a woman, he proposes to her and marries her in a reasonable amount of time, without dragging his feet.


My boyfriend is a slow mover, no doubt. And I respect that. But I will not wait for him forever. If he doesn''t eagerly want to marry me, then I will be forced to move on and find someone who does! It will suck, but I won''t waste my childbearing years on an ambivalent man who may not ever commit. Ya know?

I totally understand where you are coming from, but there are just guys who madly love their girls but are just not ready to be married. 22 is a YOUNG AGE to "cap". If you raised that to 28 or so...I would agree. But I think there are many men in their 20''s who are madly in love and just not ready to be married. Many women in their mid-20''s aren''t ready to get married either for that matter!

But I do have to say, good for you for thinking for yourself. You shouldn''t waste many years on a man if you know he won''t ever be ready.

 

[mimzy]

6 or 7 years, no. but 2 or 3 or even 4....sure. i would consider that "reasonable", even if it doesn't feel like it is to the girl!

and even if two people are madly in love, they are still different people and can have different feelings about the same thing. i know it seems like if two people are feeling the same thing (love) it should have the same result, but love rarely occurs in isolation and is usually accompanied by other thoughts and feelings that complicate things and differentiate the experiences for the two involved.

i'm curious how many men you know that have proposed to their girlfriends within a year, because from the way you talk it seems like every man you've ever known has! where are you getting these generalizations from? please don't think i am picking on you though, and i TOTALLY agree with having an internal deadline and not sitting around waiting for any guy! i've only known of one person who got engaged dating their SO for less than a year, and most people thought it was a little weird...

 

[Laila619]

Date: 4/28/2008 10:51:33 PM
Author: mimzy
6 or 7 years, no. but 2 or 3 or even 4....sure. i would consider that 'reasonable', even if it doesn't feel like it is to the girl!

and even if two people are madly in love, they are still different people and can have different feelings about the same thing. i know it seems like if two people are feeling the same thing (love) it should have the same result, but love rarely occurs in isolation and is usually accompanied by other thoughts and feelings that complicate things and differentiate the experiences for the two involved.

i'm curious how many men you know that have proposed to their girlfriends within a year, because from the way you talk it seems like every man you've ever known has! where are you getting these generalizations from? please don't think i am picking on you though, and i TOTALLY agree with having an internal deadline and not sitting around waiting for any guy! i've only known of one person who got engaged dating their SO for less than a year, and most people thought it was a little weird...

Hi mimzy,
Mostly ever married couple I know got engaged relatively quickly. My parents got engaged at 15 months. My friend got engaged to her husband at 5 months. My grandparents dated for 8 months before engagement. My good guy friend proposed to his girlfriend on their 1 year anniversary. My boyfriend's roommate proposed to his fiancee at around 16 months. My co-worker got engaged at 11 months. And on an on. So everyone I know has husbands who swept them off their feet, and who proposed in a relatively short period of time. They just knew their girlfriends were The One, and apparently they didn't want to wait any longer to make it "official." I know it's not a race, but I can't help but feel that my boyfriend's feelings for me aren't as strong or as urgent as these other guys are for their gals. If they were, I'd have a ring on my finger by now. And my boyfriend is 31, has his own house, and is financially secure, so there's no reason for the delay other than perhaps he's not all that into me.

He treats me like a princess, but when it's time to really show the world how he feels about me by making me his wife, he can't do it. Everyone keeps asking us when we're getting engaged, and it's humiliating because I don't know.
I just want other women to realize that being a lady in waiting is not something you have to be! There are plenty of men out there who are eager to get married. We should be extra careful about buying into trite excuses, and make sure that there are truly valid reasons for why our guys aren't ready yet.

 

[absolut_blonde]

Date: 4/28/2008 11:07:17 PM
Author: Laila619

Date: 4/28/2008 10:51:33 PM
Author: mimzy
6 or 7 years, no. but 2 or 3 or even 4....sure. i would consider that 'reasonable', even if it doesn't feel like it is to the girl!

and even if two people are madly in love, they are still different people and can have different feelings about the same thing. i know it seems like if two people are feeling the same thing (love) it should have the same result, but love rarely occurs in isolation and is usually accompanied by other thoughts and feelings that complicate things and differentiate the experiences for the two involved.

i'm curious how many men you know that have proposed to their girlfriends within a year, because from the way you talk it seems like every man you've ever known has! where are you getting these generalizations from? please don't think i am picking on you though, and i TOTALLY agree with having an internal deadline and not sitting around waiting for any guy! i've only known of one person who got engaged dating their SO for less than a year, and most people thought it was a little weird...

Hi mimzy,
Mostly ever married couple I know got engaged relatively quickly. My parents got engaged at 15 months. My friend got engaged to her husband at 5 months. My grandparents dated for 8 months before engagement. My good guy friend proposed to his girlfriend on their 1 year anniversary. My boyfriend's roommate proposed to his fiancee at around 16 months. My co-worker got engaged at 11 months. And on an on. So everyone I know has husbands who swept them off their feet, and who proposed in a relatively short period of time. They just knew their girlfriends were The One, and apparently they didn't want to wait any longer to make it 'official.' I know it's not a race, but I can't help but feel that my boyfriend's feelings for me aren't as strong or as urgent as these other guys are for their gals. If they were, I'd have a ring on my finger by now. And my boyfriend is 31, has his own house, and is financially secure, so there's no reason for the delay other than perhaps he's not all that into me.

He treats me like a princess, but when it's time to really show the world how he feels about me by making me his wife, he can't do it. Everyone keeps asking us when we're getting engaged, and it's humiliating because I don't know.
I just want other women to realize that being a lady in waiting is not something you have to be! There are plenty of men out there who are eager to get married. We should be extra careful about buying into trite excuses, and make sure that there are truly valid reasons for why our guys aren't ready yet.

You know... I totally get where you are coming from. I can't help but feel that way too.

I just don't quite 'get' it-- and I think it's hard to when you're ready now, or will be ready soon. This past weekend with SO, we went to some family functions (my family) and hung out with friends. And I just kept thinking that this is the man I want to be my husband and I can't wait for that to happen. Well, I guess I don't have a choice BUT to wait -- but honestly, I'd be ready after a year of dating and that isn't that far away. I just really, really want that with him in a way I've never wanted before. I'm not one to romanticize the idea of marriage, either. Up til fairly recently, I wasn't even positive I wanted to marry at all (which almost makes this recent engagement fever harder on me because at times I'm like, WTF are you? LOL). I know it's no walk in the park by any means, but I can't explain it other than to say I feel ready to work towards that with someone, specifically him.

It's hard when you can't quite figure out where his head as at. Plus, I like to overanalyze. So in the end, I'm just left kind of thinking that maybe he isn't into it 'enough'.

 

[Babyblue033]

Sometimes I feel like the ONLY woman on the planet who''s in a relationship where I am the one wanting to wait longer. I''ve been with my BF for over 4 years, living together just as long, and he''s been hinting about marriage for quite some time now. It was ME who didn''t feel ready, both emotionally and financially, and it was only very recently that I started to warm up to the idea - I think he sucked me into it by letting me pick my own e-ring

Among all the women who''s frustrated that their BFs are not making the commitment, I feel like such a man sometimes!

To be completely honest, even now, I wouldn''t be distraught if we don''t get married for several more years. We can still plan our future, buy that house with a backyard, adopt a puppy, all of which are far more important to me than getting married.

I don''t know, I guess I''m more practical then romantic, but I personally believe that marriage often has little to do with being "madly in love". Two people can be "in love" but that doesn''t always mean they can have long and happy marriage. Just my 2 cents

 

[mimzy]

first of all, parents and grandparents don''t count!! they are from a different generation and things have changed and people get married a lot later now. so those don''t count!

what about his friends and family? do you know if they have had longer courting periods? because if that is the case, then what he is doing is completely normal in his eyes (and most everyone else''s...most people wouldn''t say 14 months is that long).

i know how you feel (i so honestly do) but i beg you please don''t judge him by the standards of others. i know how much it hurts to think that your bf just doesn''t love you enough to do it and it happens for everyone else but you; and i think most of the other girls here do too. but you say he treats you like a princess - is the lack of engagement really the only thing that makes doubt his love? only you can judge your guy - is he the type of guy who would stay with you just because it''s comfortable but knows that he would''t marry you ever? because that''s not only a question of his love but of his character. do you know if he has decided for sure that he intends to marry you, or does he still need some time?

i''m not saying you should wait, i just don''t want you to run out on him because everyone else''s boyfriend didn''t take so long.

 

[Bia]

Sorry, but I can't agree. Laila, each relationship is different, there are no set boundaries for one person or couple. Everyone has an idea of how they want to live their lives, what their plans are, how they want to incorporate the people around them. It sounds like your BF is INTO YOU, maybe he is waiting for the perfect timing. Who knows? Maybe he wants to sweep you off your feet but there are other things that he wants to do first, so that he is ready to show you he is worthy of you. Men don't think the way we do. Its black and white for them (in my experience).

Now, if you're worrying about a proposal but deep down you know he isn't even entertaining the idea of spending his life with you, then maybe you aren't right for one another but give him a chance to show you that you are the woman for him. I am a firm believer in timing. My BF and I are so different. I see the way he approaches many things in his life, and its not the way I do. He needs time to do things his way, but his spontaneity and his ability to not make life ordinary are the things I love about him...even if I have no idea what he is planning for our engagement (or most things!)and its driving me nuts. I am the opposite, a total planner and control freak.

Thats who we are and for some of those reasons I doubted that we could have the sort of stability I need. It took time for me to see for myself that when we work together, we only complement the other's weaknesses. I really do understand what you're getting at. I don't know if there is a major age gap between many of the ladies here and you. I could understand a little better if the man was in his forties and still didn't want to marry--then there might be a fear of commitment or just incompatibility. Also, I don't think many of the LIW are women waiting 5, 6 7+ years. Many of us are with men we met as kids more or less, and are now of age to seriously consider making a lifetime commitment.

The reason I say all this is because I'd hate for you to believe that your BF doesn't love you enough simply because he hasn't given you a ring. Maybe giving him some more time to show you is all he needs.

 

[FrekeChild]

First of all I want to say that I mean no offense.

Frankly I think perhaps some women entwine themselves into "keeping up with the Joneses". Laila, you seem to be comparing everyone you know to your current relationship and not thinking about what's good for you and your BF. Honestly I'd stop worrying about a time frame and start thinking about your relationship. It DOESN'T matter what everybody else is doing.

Perhaps I notice this because until very recently I was in a similar position.

Every time I was lapped it felt like I'd been stepped on or cheated in some way, but then I came to the realization that EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. BF and I have been together 2 years one week from today. I know I want to marry him and he knows he wants to marry me. He is the sole provider for us and I am completely supported by my parents. He is a graduate student working 2 jobs and I am an undergrad working no jobs. Sometimes we hardly have enough money to put food on the table, and we hardly ever get to do anything like have weekend getaways. Luckily we have people around who support us emotionally and financially and without them, we would be much worse off, and one of us would not be able to go to school full time. No I am not willing to get married before ONE of us can get a job that supports us both. No, he is not willing to do that either. It's not that he's "just not that into me" or that I'm not that into him. It's that we're making a decision for us that we have thought over and talked about for hours upon hours. When did I know that I wanted to marry him? A day into our official relationship. When did he know? Two months into our relationship. Did we go off and do it? No, our common sense prevailed.

My father is a divorce lawyer. He is married to my mom, his second wife, and they never had an engagement-they just started planning a wedding, it was a year into their relationship.
My friend K got married in a shotgun wedding after being with her dude for about 8 months-hardly a year into their relationship and they are already in marriage counseling. His proposal was, after finding out she was prego, "So I guess we should get married, huh?"
My friend M knew her dude for about a year and a half before getting married-they were together less than 6 months of that before they got married. She proposed to him. Their engagement was less than a month. No she wasn't prego.

I will graduate in December 2009. He'll graduate around Spring 2011. We will probably either be married or firmly ensconced in wedding planning by the time he graduates. That is, if we decide that the time is right.
As BF says, "The intention is there, but the timing is wrong."

And I want to state for the record that if anyone proposed to me after less than a year (heck probably even less than 2 years) I'd not only say no, but more of a #3ll no!

Having said all of that, I completely agree with the book. But sometimes proposing after a couple of months, or even years, of dating just isn't realistic, logical or reasonable.

 

[moderatelypoorstudent]

I believe there was a news article that came out recently stating that the average man takes 2 years and 11 months to propose.

So this could all be very normal.

I''ve really enjoyed reading your posts though, because I have often had similar thoughts to you and found my own perspective on each one. In the end, only you know what''s truly in his heart. And your answer can''t be found in a big generalizing book.

 

[risingsun]

I was with a BF for five or six drama filled years. We talked about marriage, but nothing came of it. After getting tired of the roller coaster rider, I broke it off. Within a few months I met someone else. What really struck me was that we seemed to be on the same emotional and developmental time frame. We had both been divorced, in a longish term relationship and were not interested in dating a lot of different people. We were strongly attracted to each other, but did not want to rush the relationship. We knew, early into the relationship, that we did not want to date others. We made that commitment to each other. Then we took things slowly to see where our emotions, values, and goals led us. Within about two years
--maybe slightly less--we became engaged. We started planning our wedding and were married a year later. We have now been married for 12 years. It was a very natural process for us. Being "on the same page" made this possible for us.