He''s Just Not That Into You? some thoughts...

[neatfreak]

I agree with the others, just because others got engaged early does NOT mean that you need to!

That being said, and I don't mean to be harsh, but if he is 31 and dragging his feet that is a different story to me than the ones you were weaving before about being young, in school, etc. At 31 he should know what he wants and if he doesn't maybe it is time to explore other options for yourself...

 

[Laila619]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:28:53 AM
Author: neatfreak
I agree with the others, just because others got engaged early does NOT mean that you need to!

That being said, and I don't mean to be harsh, but if he is 31 and dragging his feet that is a different story to me than the ones you were weaving before about being young, in school, etc. At 31 he should know what he wants and if he doesn't maybe it is time to explore other options for yourself...

Yes. I am not going to give my boyfriend any longer than 18 months. At 31 he should know what he wants by now. And that's my point...unless your men are still in school, or under say 26 or 27, the same should be said for them. None of us should wait too long! There are men out there who would be eager to marry any one of us. The author of the book really made me realize this. I just don't want anyone to short change herself (myself included!). If getting engaged is what we want, we should not have to wait patiently like a dog begging to get a treat. It is not something that we have to earn in order to have it bestowed upon us. We are in control of our own futures. Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome here. I will definitely keep reading and posting with you all!

 

[star sparkle]

I just want to echo the sentiment that everyone operates on a different time frame. I felt exactly the way you feel for a really long time. It seemed to me that I really wanted to get married, and I felt like he was just dragging his feet and it made me feel like he just wasn''t that into me.

However, he expressed to me at one point that he did want to marry me, it just wasn''t the right time for him. It took me a long time for me to understand what that meant and actually accept it. I felt like if he really wanted to marry me, what was the hold up? What was he waiting for? Slowly I came to realize that there were other factors involved for him, and it didn''t mean he loved me any less or didn''t want to marry me. Then I started thinking about myself and realized that while I THOUGHT I was ready to be married, I really wasn''t at that time and I would have to think long and hard about it if he had proposed then.

Fast forward to now, we are happily engaged and everything is just peachy. It is so sweet because sometimes he just can''t contain himself and expresses how happy he is and how much he can''t wait to marry me. Now he''s chomping at the bit and would drop everything and marry me tomorrow if I said that was ok.

So yeah. While he wasn''t ready earlier (we''ve been together for 4.5 years), he is MORE than ready now. It just took a little time, and it didn''t mean he wasn''t into me.

 

[diamondfan]

I think it makes sense in certain situations but might be a bit simplistic.

I think deep down a woman knows when a guy is on board for the long haul but is having a bit of trouble getting started.

I think a woman also knows when a guy is feeding her bs and stringing her along. Her decision to keep eating the bs is complicated.

I heard a saying that women marry men hoping to change them and men marry women hoping they won''t change. A lot of times, you love someone and think it will all work out if you can just get them to marry you. Magic will occur. Timelines notwithstanding, a guy who wants to marry you will figure things out for the most part. The timing will not have to be totally perfect, but workable. But I also understand wanting to be in the right headspace and have your ducks in a row. But endless stalling and procrastinating and excuses that don''t hold water are bad signs. Some men have trouble pulling the trigger but that does not mean they won''t be good shots.

 

[bee*]

I think that everyone has different timelines for how they like to do things. D and I met at 17/18 and got engaged at 25/27. We wanted to get through school, get money saved etc. Personally I wouldn''t want to get engaged without financial stability. That book might say it''s a load of rubbish and that we could have gotten engaged eitherway, but that''s not for me. Maybe I''m just too sensible/not romantic enough but to have enough money to set up our house and for our wedding was important to me and to D. I never for one second doubted his intentions to get married. And marriage didn''t even enter my thoughts until just before we were dating for 7 years. Have you spoken to your bf about marriage at all? Maybe it''s different over here (Ireland)but I don''t know one couple who have gotten engaged before 7 years so there isn''t any pressure to keep up with others.

 

[honey22]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:37:26 AM
Author: Laila619

Yes. I am not going to give my boyfriend any longer than 18 months. At 31 he should know what he wants by now. And that''s my point...unless your men are still in school, or under say 26 or 27, the same should be said for them. None of us should wait too long! There are men out there who would be eager to marry any one of us. The author of the book really made me realize this. I just don''t want anyone to short change herself (myself included!). If getting engaged is what we want, we should not have to wait patiently like a dog begging to get a treat. It is not something that we have to earn in order to have it bestowed upon us. We are in control of our own futures. Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome here. I will definitely keep reading and posting with you all!

Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn''t necessarily work for other people.

In the 12 years my partner and I have been together (yes, 12 years!) I have seen so many of our friends in long term committed relationships and marriages separate or divorce. I look back now at our relationship and realise that we shouldn''t have got married earlier, it wasn''t right for us. That doesn''t mean it wasn''t right to stay together, just not to get married. I can honestly say that I don''t know of many couples that have the open, comitted relationship we have. I would not trade what I have for a man that will marry me at a drop of a hat for ANYTHING. I see people getting married, despite having issues, and just avoiding these things with the attitude that it will all be right when they have walked down the isle.

Getting married is a huge committment, one that many people take too lightly. So many women are focussed on the ring, the fact that their friends etc are getting married, and their social status, instead of really sitting down and looking hard at their relationship and their partner and asking themselves, is this really the right thing for us, not our social status, or to get some new bling. A relationship grows and develops over time, how you feel about your partner after two or three years may very well be different after 10 years.

I am sure there are other men out there that would have married me years ago, but would I have the ultimate soul-mate and best friend that I have now - no! My parter would give his life for me, treats me like a princess and cares about my happiness and wellbeing at all times. There is nothing in the world more important to him than me. There is not a chance I would trade that for an engagement ring.

What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want.

What suprises me in my feeling of need to justify my relationship here. Yes, I am a LIW. I spent years desparately waiting for him to propose. Then I saw the light and realised the important things in life - I have an incredible partner and best friend, whom I love more than words can say. He has a ring just waiting for the right moment, if it takes the rest of my life, I will wait. Having the man, the other half of my soul by my side, is so much more important than having that ring on my finger. Yes, I want to marry him, but I don''t want him to ask just cause we have been together for so long, or just to make me happy. An engagement is about two people wanting to get married, not about giving into a demanding woman who just wants to get married. I really think you are missing the point.

I don''t want to get in an argument with you, I do respect your feelings, but I don''t think you should say that we all should have the same opinion. I am not suggesting that everyone wait over 10 years, but every relationship is different and there are no rules.

 

[LaraOnline]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:37:26 AM
Author: Laila619

Date: 4/29/2008 12:28:53 AM

Author: neatfreak

I agree with the others, just because others got engaged early does NOT mean that you need to!


That being said, and I don''t mean to be harsh, but if he is 31 and dragging his feet that is a different story to me than the ones you were weaving before about being young, in school, etc. At 31 he should know what he wants and if he doesn''t maybe it is time to explore other options for yourself...

Yes. I am not going to give my boyfriend any longer than 18 months. At 31 he should know what he wants by now. And that''s my point...unless your men are still in school, or under say 26 or 27, the same should be said for them. None of us should wait too long! There are men out there who would be eager to marry any one of us. The author of the book really made me realize this. I just don''t want anyone to short change herself (myself included!). If getting engaged is what we want, we should not have to wait patiently like a dog begging to get a treat. It is not something that we have to earn in order to have it bestowed upon us. We are in control of our own futures. Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome here. I will definitely keep reading and posting with you all!

I feel for you Laila. I was in this boat...from about age 28 the uncertainty and confusion became really unbearable...eventually I left (just before I turned 30...ugh) and then met may now husband at 31, married at 32.
I would love to say hearts and flowers ever since, and yes, we really do have a fab marriage and he really is the right one blah blah
But the bumpy road I had before I met him was really unpleasant, and it has affected my overall attitude towards love and sex, I think
I was very idealistic before I embarked upon adult sexual life, and I wish I did not have to travel so far before getting married

Yet it extremely difficult to convey this to a man. Men seem to be much more practical about the sexual side of life. I met my husband''s ex girlfriend once (wearing a teensy bikini at the time, btw!) She was perfect. Meeting her made me feel a little depressed about the human condition.
He finished with her (at the age of 30) because she was clamouring for marriage...oh, and because she was older than him!!
0

Why can''t men be more honourable? The whole notion of chivalry, or ''doing the right thing'' seems restricted to having good social manners post pill!
On the bright side, at least husbands seem to be better at family life these days, when they do marry.
But I think this modern system can put a lot of pressure on women...

 

[Delster]

I don''t know, I think the whole ''he should know within a year'' thing is very arbitrary and makes no allowances for people''s personalities, their pasts, and their circumstances.

BF says he knew from day one that he wanted to marry me. But he was still freaked out by the idea of it when we started talking seriously (about two years ago). He was OK with the idea of getting married but he wasn''t OK with the idea of doing it in the financial state we were in back then. I really believe a lot of women discount the strong desire men have to ''provide''. Running off and getting married on a whim would have crushed my BF as he would have felt like he had failed to provide the ''perfect'' ring, the ''perfect'' wedding, the ''perfect'' home etc etc etc. Do I need those things? No! Would I have married him without all of those? Of course!!!! Would he have been happy to be married? Yes. But he would have also felt like he''d failed to provide the ''dream'' proposal and wedding.

Of course there are also men who don''t feel this way and will happily get married without the ring, or the house, or the pension and savings plan. I just think the romantic version of things (the ''when he knows, he knows and wild horses won''t stop him'' version) is a lot less common than the movies and our girlfriends would have us believe. I mean who wants to be the woman who admits she had to prod her BF to talk about marriage? People gloss over the details and profess they were surprised, shocked even at the proposal. I always suspect the truth is more like what we read on this board day in and day out.

Oh and I hardly know anyone who got engaged before 6 years dating. My grandparents, back in the 1930s. And one work colleage who had a whirlwind romance in her mid-thirties. That''s it.

 

[claireabelle]

Hi everyone!

I''ve been with my BF for 6 years now (I''m 25 and he is 27) and I am waiting for him to propose with our custom E-ring that we organised in march.... we have talked about marriage from day DOT and we''ve basically been very open with each other for over 5 of the 6 years that we plan to marry each other... however, there was never any rush. We have been so busy LIVING life and building our relationship...experiencing everything and growing as close as can be. The best feeling is feeling completely SECURE without a rock on your finger... and just knowing.... a feeling of trust and honesty that can''t really be put into words.

I think it''s great to wait... it just shows how strong you are as a couple.

I think of it like this: My BF and I married each other when we met - and it''s taken 6 years to finally have a party!

Saying this - I do realize that I''m quite young and it probably hasn''t been a priority for us for this reason... I know it probably feels different for those of you who have met the ''one'' later down the track and are quite eager to move things along.... I''m also Australian and it seems really normal for couples to date for years before getting engaged...... I guess we are a bit backwards after all!

but either way - Love is sweet, with or without a rock and a certificate. Consider yourselves lucky to have found it!

 

[claireabelle]

Date: 4/29/2008 4:07:33 AM
Author: bee*
I think that everyone has different timelines for how they like to do things. D and I met at 17/18 and got engaged at 25/27. We wanted to get through school, get money saved etc. Personally I wouldn''t want to get engaged without financial stability. That book might say it''s a load of rubbish and that we could have gotten engaged eitherway, but that''s not for me. Maybe I''m just too sensible/not romantic enough but to have enough money to set up our house and for our wedding was important to me and to D. I never for one second doubted his intentions to get married. And marriage didn''t even enter my thoughts until just before we were dating for 7 years. Have you spoken to your bf about marriage at all? Maybe it''s different over here (Ireland)but I don''t know one couple who have gotten engaged before 7 years so there isn''t any pressure to keep up with others.

...and what she said

xx

 

[claireabelle]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:37:26 AM


Yes. I am not going to give my boyfriend any longer than 18 months. At 31 he should know what he wants by now. And that''s my point...unless your men are still in school, or under say 26 or 27, the same should be said for them. None of us should wait too long! There are men out there who would be eager to marry any one of us. The author of the book really made me realize this. I just don''t want anyone to short change herself (myself included!). If getting engaged is what we want, we should not have to wait patiently like a dog begging to get a treat. It is not something that we have to earn in order to have it bestowed upon us. We are in control of our own futures. Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome here. I will definitely keep reading and posting with you all!

... I have to say I really disagree....

I think you should relax and enjoy the ride... I don''t think it''s wise to put these things on a time frame. If you don''t feel like you could just "BE'' with this person without legalities... then aren''t you missing something? There''s so much life to be lived - it doesn''t start at the point of proposal.

So what happens after 18 months? you just cross out his name and move down the list???

I understand everyones circumstances are different - but it just seems a bit scheduled, impatient and almost cold to me... IMHO

...have a little faith.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I think a woman can only "enjoy the ride" if she knows a proposal is coming. If the couple talks openly about marriage, is on the same page with the timeline, are looking forward to marriage, etc.

If on the other hand the man doesn't like talking about marriage, she doesn't feel that they are on the same page, he keeps telling her he "isn't ready", it starts to hurt her self-esteem and that inkling of resentment begins to rise, then I think she should get off the ride.

The bottom line is that marriage is about more than just legally tying yourself to another person. For many, it's about being able to start your life together--buying a house together, having a family together. Should a woman, especially a woman who wants to have children in the next couple of years, put her life on hold while a man figures out if he wants to marry her? Absolutely not.
_______________________________________________

I wholheartedly believe that the single most important element in determining whether a relationship ends up in marriage is NOT love. It's timing. If my husband had asked me to marry him in the first five years of our relationship, I would have said no. While I was college and even immediately after I graduated from college my priority was MYSELF. Did I value my relationship? Yes. Was it my first priority? No. When you are young, individual growth is paramount and it's very difficult to do that if the relatoinship always comes first. If he wanted marriage and had to leave our relatioship, I would have respectfully understood.

Conversely, when I was ready to get married and he wasn't, I didn't put my life on hold. I gave him what I considered a very fair amount of time to embrace marriage (two additional years), but he didn't. When I left, I told him I resepected him very much for not proposing before he was ready and while DH was very sad about me leaving, he respected me for doing what I thought was best for myself.

And, of course, it made him want to dig deeper to better understand the root of his fears.
________________________________________________

Coincidentally, a good friend of mine left her foot-dragging boyfriend the same day I left mine. Her boyfriend proposed half-heartedly the day she left (a last ditch effort to keep her), but she declined. Three months later she met a fantastic guy and 8 months later they were engaged. She couldn't believe how much happier she was in just the short time span of a year.

My point is that if a woman is truly at the end of her rope and is no longer happy in the relationship, leaving is the ONLY way she can change her OWN situation. And if a woman isn't ready to leave, she must still be getting something out of the relationship.

So yes, he might not be that into you, or he might have deep-seeded fears, or the timing might be off, but regardless of the reason a woman should be able to dictate her own path. After all, it's OUR life.

 

[Lauren8211]

I firmly believe that marriage and engagement is not one size fits all. Just because you do something quickly does not make it a right decision. My boyfriend and I have been together for 2 1/2 years, and I think back to how we were at 6 months, and at one year. I''ve learned so much more about him -- and definitely realize that we were not ready to get married at that time.

I think that if you express your feelings about marriage to your SO, and you know you trust him enough to do what''s right when he''s ready, then you have nothing to worry about. My intentions were made to my boyfriend -- getting married is important to me, and if at any point you decide that I''m not the one he wants to be with, or that he doesnt want to get married ever, then he needs to let me know.

I trust him enough to know that he''ll fulfill my wishes -- even if it takes him a bit longer to get there

Don''t rush marriage! It''s the biggest decision of your life and you need to make sure all parties are ready!

 

[lliang_chi]

I think we''re all in agreement here. There''s no generic time line for everyone. Each person is different and each relationship is different. As long as everyone''s S.O. is open to communicate those time lines, I do not think the relationship is doomed.

It definitely depends on people''s situation and stage in life. Older couples tend to progress to engagement and marriage much faster than younger couples. I''m 27 (28 next month) and I''d say I probably fall into this category. My FI proposed after 1.75 yrs of dating. He said he knew about a year after dating me. But you have a lot of younger couples here (in college, or just out of college), who''ve been dating for years and are still waiting. And y''know what? That''s just fine for them. There''s so much you need to do to PREPARE for marriage, not just saving $$ for a ring etc. Marriage is a important commitment meant to last forever. You can''t nickel & dime you way through life, with kids etc. I commend all the younger couples here that want to get their ducks in a row first before making this very important decision. In the end it will lead to a stronger marriage and family life.

Now I''m definitely agreeing that all ladies must be aware of the status of their relationship. That''s for sure. But that''s why we have this LIW board. It''s to help each other get a neutral perspective in our relationships and situations. So when something happens there''s an outside party that we trust to tell us, "WAKE UP GIRL!! You need to do XYZ."

 

[Babyblue033]

Date: 4/29/2008 5:16:10 AM
Author: honey22
An engagement is about two people wanting to get married, not about giving into a demanding woman who just wants to get married. I really think you are missing the point

I think this sums it up pretty well for me. Engagement, and then marriage, is about TWO people wanting to spend the rest of their lives together. I don''t know if "it''s now or never" is the right way to start this long journey

 

[Just_Me]

I''m sure there are exceptions (& I''m not here to judge anyone else!) and I am sure age plays a factor - but for me this has definitely been true!

I''ve had a couple of serious relationships where I went with all of the excuses (not saying this is true for everyone) of waiting on money/career/etc... When my last relationship ended - before the one I am in now - I did a lot of reading and self evaluation. I came to the tough realization that they were "just not that into me" and that the "right" guy wouldn''t keep me guessing and wondering. That was such a tough one for me! Then my now boyfriend came along and it was so different then any relationship I have ever had. He has had zero doubts about me since almost the very start. He has made it known to EVERYONE that he is going to propose and marry me - that I am the best thing to ever happen to him. I now have very strong reason to believe that he has already purchased my ring and will probably be proposing in the next month or so. We have only been together just under 6 months! Neither of us ever thought that length of time would be okay in past relationships - but for us - when it''s right, it''s right. My other relationships didn''t even seem bad - the men treated me really well - but now in the fact of the "right" relationship for me, I can finally see what they were lacking.

Again - not so for everyone - but most definitely made me a believer.

 

[FrekeChild]

I''m going to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Honey22''s very well said post.

Especially this part:
"Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn''t necessarily work for other people."

And this part:
"What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want."

You know, my last 2 exes wanted to marry me, but I didn''t want to marry them. To me, I didn''t just want to get married (I very easily could have!) I wanted to find THAT guy. The one who would make me feel like I was complete. Luckily I found that guy, and I''m willing to wait however long it takes him to propose-if he doesn''t ever, then I''m going to have a party celebrating our lives together anyway. After all, it''s just a piece of paper and some tax breaks.

And I think that taking comprehensive exams and being well on our way to being financially secure are pretty dang good reasons to wait.

 

[Bia]

Bee*: You''re from Ireland??? How cool is that?! Ireland is one of the top 5 places in the world I want to see in my lifetime (before I am old!)!

I didn''t realize the LIW were so international!

 

[Snickerdoodle]

When I was 25 I began dating a guy that I had been friends with for 2 years prior to that. After just a few months he surprised me with a proposal and we were married 3 months later. Two and a half years later our divorce was final.

Fast-forward to now. I''m 33 and have been with my BF (also 33) for almost 3 years now. He moved in with me at the beginning of this year and we plan to get married next year, so we''ll probably be engaged soon. Neither of us are in a huge hurry, nor are either of us dragging our feet, it''s just how things seem to be unfolding for us. We''re busy with living and enjoying our lives with one another. This may not be ideal for everybody, but it works for us.

When I was younger I had the mentality that a lot of young women seem to have; I was focused on getting married, having the dress, the cake, etc. I think a lot of young women get swept up in the romanticism of the wedding and don''t give serious thought to the marriage and everything it entails. I don''t think a lot of young people realize that they have a lot to discover about themselves and that they will not be the same person in 10, 5, or even 2 years as they are now. I know I''ve changed some of my views and want different things out of life now than I did when I was 25!

My point is: don''t be in such a rush and put unrealistic deadlines on anybody, including yourself. Don''t make being engaged your ultimate goal. Instead, make your ultimate goal to live a fabulously happy life. Take time to enjoy and learn about each other as a person, take the time to find out if this is the person with whom you''ll be able live that fabulously happy life.

P.S. No, I don''t think I know what''s best for everybody, I''m just giving advice based on my experiences!

 

[rockzilla]

Laila-

Sorry if you''ve posted this and I''ve missed it, but how old are you? You said he is 31...are you around the same age? Because if you are more than a few years younger (or older!) it may be affecting how he thinks about this..

 

[Pushin40]

Date: 4/29/2008 5:16:10 AM
Author: honey22

Date: 4/29/2008 12:37:26 AM
Author: Laila619

Yes. I am not going to give my boyfriend any longer than 18 months. At 31 he should know what he wants by now. And that''s my point...unless your men are still in school, or under say 26 or 27, the same should be said for them. None of us should wait too long! There are men out there who would be eager to marry any one of us. The author of the book really made me realize this. I just don''t want anyone to short change herself (myself included!). If getting engaged is what we want, we should not have to wait patiently like a dog begging to get a treat. It is not something that we have to earn in order to have it bestowed upon us. We are in control of our own futures. Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome here. I will definitely keep reading and posting with you all!

Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn''t necessarily work for other people.

In the 12 years my partner and I have been together (yes, 12 years!) I have seen so many of our friends in long term committed relationships and marriages separate or divorce. I look back now at our relationship and realise that we shouldn''t have got married earlier, it wasn''t right for us. That doesn''t mean it wasn''t right to stay together, just not to get married. I can honestly say that I don''t know of many couples that have the open, comitted relationship we have. I would not trade what I have for a man that will marry me at a drop of a hat for ANYTHING. I see people getting married, despite having issues, and just avoiding these things with the attitude that it will all be right when they have walked down the isle.

Getting married is a huge committment, one that many people take too lightly. So many women are focussed on the ring, the fact that their friends etc are getting married, and their social status, instead of really sitting down and looking hard at their relationship and their partner and asking themselves, is this really the right thing for us, not our social status, or to get some new bling. A relationship grows and develops over time, how you feel about your partner after two or three years may very well be different after 10 years.

I am sure there are other men out there that would have married me years ago, but would I have the ultimate soul-mate and best friend that I have now - no! My parter would give his life for me, treats me like a princess and cares about my happiness and wellbeing at all times. There is nothing in the world more important to him than me. There is not a chance I would trade that for an engagement ring.

What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want.

What suprises me in my feeling of need to justify my relationship here. Yes, I am a LIW. I spent years desparately waiting for him to propose. Then I saw the light and realised the important things in life - I have an incredible partner and best friend, whom I love more than words can say. He has a ring just waiting for the right moment, if it takes the rest of my life, I will wait. Having the man, the other half of my soul by my side, is so much more important than having that ring on my finger. Yes, I want to marry him, but I don''t want him to ask just cause we have been together for so long, or just to make me happy. An engagement is about two people wanting to get married, not about giving into a demanding woman who just wants to get married. I really think you are missing the point.

I don''t want to get in an argument with you, I do respect your feelings, but I don''t think you should say that we all should have the same opinion. I am not suggesting that everyone wait over 10 years, but every relationship is different and there are no rules.

Honey22, I''m pretty much there with you, but you''ve got a few years on me.

SO and I have been together for 8 yearss.

I DO NOT, in any way shape or form, feel like I am cheating myself because I''m not engaged or married. I love B, and I would NEVER contemplate leaving him "because he won''t marry me." What''s that all about? How can you leave someone who you theoretically love so much you want to spend the rest of your life with them?

Most posters here agree that everyone has their own timeline. That book sounds like Baloney - it''s just not that cut and dry. Everyone''s circumstances are totally different. B and I have a house together (yup - 2 names on that mortgage) and did that over 4 years ago. To me that was a HUGE step and showed committment on both ends. We live as a married couple in every way.

I do want to be B''s wife, and we will get married, but there is no major urgency. I''m not desperate, and I love my life. I don''t define myself by that peice of paper. LET ME SAY, though, I know what I want in a ring, and he knows too, and money is certainly a factor. That is no excuse, it''s reality. It''s important to both of us, and because of that, I can wait for my ring. But thats only how WE feel. I know a lot of women could care less about nice big diamond (I WISH I was like that!!)

Let me also add that if he said let''s go to the courthouse tomorrow, I would. But he wouldn''t do that. I''ve never been married and because he loves me, he wants me to have e a nice ring and wedding.

I think there are a lot of people out there who would never consider staying with someone for 8 years, or 12 years - but it works for us. He''s divorced, he has kids, we don''t want to have children together...so....if I was 28 and was dying to have children this could be a whole different discussion.

We have a great life, we travel a lot, have good jobs, we''re healthy and happy. We love beign with eachother more than anything. What else do I need?

 

[sweetjettagirl04]

I think it all depends on the situation, everyone is different. I was with FI for 6 years before he proposed, after living together for 5 years. Did it bother me? Sometimes. Did I have those same thoughts? Sometimes. BUT - I also knew the reason he waited to do it - for us, it was getting our act together and being comfortable with where we are - AND I am 23 now, going on 24 on May 27. He's 6 years older than me, so that was a factor, too.

Personally, I would be uneasy getting engaged after dating a year or less. When I was 17, I dated a guy who asked me to marry him after we dated for a few months. I politely declined and we ended up going our separate ways. I didn't FEEL that it was right (because I was so young, and I barely knew him), and I knew in my heart I wouldn't be happy if I said yes. I know his current situation, and I would not be happy with the life I could have chosen. And, when we broke up, I finally "noticed" dear FI at work - so it was perfect the way it worked out.

I wanted it to happen before it did - but I'm very glad I didn't rush the situation. I knew I was going to marry him, we had talked about it very often, and I didn't have a timeline - but I wouldn't have left under the circumstance we were in.

Oh, by the way, I was reading Brides Maryland last night, and the statistic it gave made a lot of sense to me. Most men marry when they are 29. My best friend married her husband when he was 29, our other friend's fiancee will just turn 30 when they marry, and my FI will be 30 when we marry. In our circle, it was more of the gradual maturation that all the guys did together, and started taking the same steps in life at the same time.

 

[Bia]

I think we are criss-crossing the issues here. I am thinking that MOST of the LIW are women who are with men they KNOW are ready, or getting ready to make that declaration. There are a few of us that are younger (younger 20's) and in relationships with people they love enough to know they want to marry, JUST NOT YET--and are fine with that timeline. There is no one way for everybody. Remember that for the majority of people here, this forum is for information and to chat it up about girl stuff...things the men want nothing to do with! Its not the "Spinster/Hag In Waiting" forum. We are excited about the impending engagements and we just want to talk incessantly about it...thats all.

Laila, if you feel that you need to give your man no longer than 18 months, I am wondering why that is? People are unique, therefore their needs are unique. Some people feel fine about jumping into marriage, while others don't want to take chances--I sure don't. Its one thing to be in a relationship that has stalled and no one knows how to get out. Its a TOTALLY different thing when two people have decided to give time the proper respect it deserves. If I had said yes to a proposal three years ago, I would have broken up that engagement a long time ago, probably to run for this hills because I did not know my BF the way I do now. I wasn't mature enough at 23 to understand how he operates and that I have to make compromises in order to be able to live with how he is by nature. NOW I am able to recognize that his personality will never be like mine and if I can't deal, then I can't be with him. 3 years ago, I thought differently because as far as I was concerned, I COULD change him to be more like me--no way! I have matured as a woman to see that he is what matters and the things that I could do without, also make him who he is. Likewise for him, I am sure. But we needed time to really appreciate what we mean to one another. Its not about LOVE because the love/passion/affection has always come easy. It's about compatibility for us.

If you feel that you need to keep within a timeline (to catch up to your friends or family) ask yourself why. Why do you feel you have to rush? 1 1/2 years is not long...Some people only need that much time but for many, many, MANY people, that is definitely NOT enough time to get to know someone, from deep within. Ask yourself if maybe you are rushing the issue because you need to be engaged to pacify your insecurities. For instance, societal pressures...something the LIW have discussed before, as many of us are around 25-30's....or the age where we are constantly asked when we are planning to marry--those issues are no joke and many of us are feeling them hard!

Also, ask yourself if maybe you think your BF doesn't WANT to marry you--ever. Not a question about timing but about his devotion and commitment to you. He doesn't have to be engaged to you to be the commited man. If he isn't commited then you might want to reconsider why you want him to ask you so badly.

To add one more thing before my edit window is up and I have to re-post:

Many of us, me particularly, are doing our own things. We have goals of our own that are JUST as important to us as our families. We want careers and are working our asses of in school to get there. I can't even imagine having to plan a wedding while in grad school, forget in my early twenties as a college kid. It wouldn't have made sense. We, just like our SO, want to provide for ourselves, for our future lives. If we all lived in a society where women did nothing but get married and make babies, then most of us would probably have 5 kids by 26. God...how depressing. Thank God we don't!

 

[NewEnglandLady]

Date: 4/29/2008 1:10:58 PM
Author: Pushin40

Date: 4/29/2008 5:16:10 AM
Author: honey22

Date: 4/29/2008 12:37:26 AM
Author: Laila619

Yes. I am not going to give my boyfriend any longer than 18 months. At 31 he should know what he wants by now. And that''s my point...unless your men are still in school, or under say 26 or 27, the same should be said for them. None of us should wait too long! There are men out there who would be eager to marry any one of us. The author of the book really made me realize this. I just don''t want anyone to short change herself (myself included!). If getting engaged is what we want, we should not have to wait patiently like a dog begging to get a treat. It is not something that we have to earn in order to have it bestowed upon us. We are in control of our own futures. Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome here. I will definitely keep reading and posting with you all!

Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn''t necessarily work for other people.

In the 12 years my partner and I have been together (yes, 12 years!) I have seen so many of our friends in long term committed relationships and marriages separate or divorce. I look back now at our relationship and realise that we shouldn''t have got married earlier, it wasn''t right for us. That doesn''t mean it wasn''t right to stay together, just not to get married. I can honestly say that I don''t know of many couples that have the open, comitted relationship we have. I would not trade what I have for a man that will marry me at a drop of a hat for ANYTHING. I see people getting married, despite having issues, and just avoiding these things with the attitude that it will all be right when they have walked down the isle.

Getting married is a huge committment, one that many people take too lightly. So many women are focussed on the ring, the fact that their friends etc are getting married, and their social status, instead of really sitting down and looking hard at their relationship and their partner and asking themselves, is this really the right thing for us, not our social status, or to get some new bling. A relationship grows and develops over time, how you feel about your partner after two or three years may very well be different after 10 years.

I am sure there are other men out there that would have married me years ago, but would I have the ultimate soul-mate and best friend that I have now - no! My parter would give his life for me, treats me like a princess and cares about my happiness and wellbeing at all times. There is nothing in the world more important to him than me. There is not a chance I would trade that for an engagement ring.

What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want.

What suprises me in my feeling of need to justify my relationship here. Yes, I am a LIW. I spent years desparately waiting for him to propose. Then I saw the light and realised the important things in life - I have an incredible partner and best friend, whom I love more than words can say. He has a ring just waiting for the right moment, if it takes the rest of my life, I will wait. Having the man, the other half of my soul by my side, is so much more important than having that ring on my finger. Yes, I want to marry him, but I don''t want him to ask just cause we have been together for so long, or just to make me happy. An engagement is about two people wanting to get married, not about giving into a demanding woman who just wants to get married. I really think you are missing the point.

I don''t want to get in an argument with you, I do respect your feelings, but I don''t think you should say that we all should have the same opinion. I am not suggesting that everyone wait over 10 years, but every relationship is different and there are no rules.

Honey22, I''m pretty much there with you, but you''ve got a few years on me.

SO and I have been together for 8 yearss.

I DO NOT, in any way shape or form, feel like I am cheating myself because I''m not engaged or married. I love B, and I would NEVER contemplate leaving him ''because he won''t marry me.'' What''s that all about? How can you leave someone who you theoretically love so much you want to spend the rest of your life with them?

Most posters here agree that everyone has their own timeline. That book sounds like Baloney - it''s just not that cut and dry. Everyone''s circumstances are totally different. B and I have a house together (yup - 2 names on that mortgage) and did that over 4 years ago. To me that was a HUGE step and showed committment on both ends. We live as a married couple in every way.

I do want to be B''s wife, and we will get married, but there is no major urgency. I''m not desperate, and I love my life. I don''t define myself by that peice of paper. LET ME SAY, though, I know what I want in a ring, and he knows too, and money is certainly a factor. That is no excuse, it''s reality. It''s important to both of us, and because of that, I can wait for my ring. But thats only how WE feel. I know a lot of women could care less about nice big diamond (I WISH I was like that!!)

Let me also add that if he said let''s go to the courthouse tomorrow, I would. But he wouldn''t do that. I''ve never been married and because he loves me, he wants me to have e a nice ring and wedding.

I think there are a lot of people out there who would never consider staying with someone for 8 years, or 12 years - but it works for us. He''s divorced, he has kids, we don''t want to have children together...so....if I was 28 and was dying to have children this could be a whole different discussion.

We have a great life, we travel a lot, have good jobs, we''re healthy and happy. We love beign with eachother more than anything. What else do I need?

I think this is a much easier decision to make for those who don''t want kids. In fact, if you take out the "family" factor, many would probably say they don''t feel a need to get married.

 

[Pushin40]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:37:26 AM
Author: Laila619

Date: 4/29/2008 12:28:53 AM
Author: neatfreak
I agree with the others, just because others got engaged early does NOT mean that you need to!

That being said, and I don''t mean to be harsh, but if he is 31 and dragging his feet that is a different story to me than the ones you were weaving before about being young, in school, etc. At 31 he should know what he wants and if he doesn''t maybe it is time to explore other options for yourself...

Yes. I am not going to give my boyfriend any longer than 18 months. At 31 he should know what he wants by now. And that''s my point...unless your men are still in school, or under say 26 or 27, the same should be said for them. None of us should wait too long! There are men out there who would be eager to marry any one of us. The author of the book really made me realize this. I just don''t want anyone to short change herself (myself included!). If getting engaged is what we want, we should not have to wait patiently like a dog begging to get a treat. It is not something that we have to earn in order to have it bestowed upon us. We are in control of our own futures. Anyway, thanks for the warm welcome here. I will definitely keep reading and posting with you all!

Laila - is SO aware of your timeline and is he OK with that? Does it bum him out knowing he has a deadline and you will leave him if he doesn''t "pony up"? Or is your timeline just in your head?

I''m also curious of your age as well, and if having kids is on your mind. Like I posted earlier, I can see the KIDS thing having an effect on how you feel. I may be biased because for us it really just doesn''t matter - we love eachother and we are together. For us - thats what it''s all about.

Do you fel if he doesn''t meet your deadline that he''s really not the one for you? What if your 18 months is really 24 months for him - could you really walk away from that?

 

[LaraOnline]

Interesting point about young women wanting the wedding, white dress etc.
I think I personally wanted to get married because it seemed the natural and correct thing to do, given that I was in an ahem *active* relationship. I needed to justify my connection with innappropriate men because I felt I had to see it through...right to the end...
I can see now that exes were not appropriate, but really I kinda wish I hadn''t got involved with them in the first place, rather than rushing in and then hanging around for years...
I agree wholeheartedly that, having become involved, you really have to be responsible for your own life.
Unfortunately, women who are involved tend to have the whole ''bird in the hand'' problem, it''s hard to give up what you have for the unknown.
And, yes, timing has everything to do with it...Laila, if your man is 30, and you genuinely have a good feeling about it (I mean, do you really want to marry him...really?) maybe hang back and try to relax. You don''t have to do anything too drastic. Enjoy and explore your own life. Maybe you should go out on a couple of dinner dates with other guys.

. or with groups of friends that he doesn''t know...? Break away a little, New England Lady''s advice was excellent. Men seem to get their acts together after 30, broad generalisation hey , perhaps marriage is starting to play on his mind? Has he got any grey hair yet? Any sign of aging? haha, joking!

 

[Pushin40]

NewEnglandLady - psychic connection there.....
I think you are right.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

I know two couples (family friends)--one couple met in their forties, the other met in their fifties and they were done having kids. Neither of them got married because they didn''t really see the point--they set up their wills, accounts, etc. to protect the other party, so that wasn''t an issue. The couple that met in their forties are now in their EIGHTIES and have had one of the happiest, healthiest relationships I''ve seen! I think marriage is only an issue if the couple isn''t on the same page--if one person wants it and the other person doesn''t or isn''t sure. If neither want it, it doesn''t make the relationship any less valid!

 

[Laila619]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:58:51 PM
Author: rockzilla
Laila-

Sorry if you've posted this and I've missed it, but how old are you? You said he is 31...are you around the same age? Because if you are more than a few years younger (or older!) it may be affecting how he thinks about this..

Hi, I'm 26. I do feel my boyfriend is the man I want to spend the rest of my life with, the man I want to father my children. HOWEVER, his decision to wait should NOT take priority over my decision to get married and have kids. Just like none of you should have to sacrifice your desire to get engaged and start planning the rest of your life for any man. If my boyfriend and I have different timing, then I will move on for one simple reason: I want kids and I am not willing to wait in uncertainty forever. My boyfriend told me just last week that he sees us together for the next 40 years, married with kids. But he did not address a timeline, and like I said I won't be around forever. Part of it is a self-respect issue IMO.

I personally don't think the decision to get engaged should take forever (and many of my friends and family agree). Either you want to or you don't. Gentlemen know that they should not string a lady on. They should make their intentions clear and not make a lady wait for something she wants so much. It's important for women to have security, especially when that biological clock is ticking!

I mean no offense to anyone, I'm just trying to give a different point of view. I feel sad for us when I read some of the extremely anxious, angst-filled posts.

Oh, and someone asked if my boyfriend knows of my 18 month deadline? No, he doesn't. It's an internal deadline. I don't believe in ultimatums etc. because like I said, I believe men in love just propose on their own without any prodding necessary.

 

[Laila619]

Date: 4/29/2008 12:12:35 PM
Author: FrekeChild
I''m going to say that I wholeheartedly agree with Honey22''s very well said post.

Especially this part:
''Who are you to decide at which point all of us should be getting engaged or married?! What works for you doesn''t necessarily work for other people.''

And this part:
''What do you really want? Do you want to spend your life with this man, or have a shiny ring? If he is worth it, you would wait, I am sure if he felt you were worth it, he would wait for you. It sounds like all you want is to get married, and you will happily insert any willing man into the equation in order to get what you want.''

You know, my last 2 exes wanted to marry me, but I didn''t want to marry them. To me, I didn''t just want to get married (I very easily could have!) I wanted to find THAT guy. The one who would make me feel like I was complete. Luckily I found that guy, and I''m willing to wait however long it takes him to propose-if he doesn''t ever, then I''m going to have a party celebrating our lives together anyway. After all, it''s just a piece of paper and some tax breaks.

And I think that taking comprehensive exams and being well on our way to being financially secure are pretty dang good reasons to wait.

That''s all fine and good, but what about if a woman wants kids? Women aren''t fertile forever, and most women don''t want to have kids out of wedlock. Marriage provides a secure, socially accepted environment in which to raise children. That''s why it''s more than just a piece of paper.