Hero Came Home Today

[lyra]

Sounds like great progress so far. Have you tried fetch yet? I always say a tired dog is a good dog, and retrievers are usually very keen on fetch.

 

[AGBF]

Sounds like great progress so far. Have you tried fetch yet? I always say a tired dog is a good dog, and retrievers are usually very keen on fetch.

I have. At first he seemed to love it, but then he stopped bringing back the ball. We will keep trying!

Deb

 

[House Cat]

I have pictures because my daughter insisted that I take some of her and the dog. These are the ones she cropped and approved.



He is very alert and very smart just like our last Lab. He is, in terms of temperament, the polar opposite of of my beloved Newfie, Griffin. Griffin was so laid back that one pizza delivery man asked my daughter if he was alive. (No. We always store dead dogs on our front lawn.) He let people step over him on the front walk. And now we have this little dickens!

Deb

Oh, look at these two!!! They look perfect together!!

I love these photos!! Deb, your daughter is beautiful! Hero is a very handsome boy.

 

[AGBF]

I can only imagine what Hero really went through, but it sounds like he found his happy ending. Obviously, he’s a smart dog, but you sounds like a wonderful owner. His training should be easy peasy. Good luck!

Maybe not easy peasy. But I hope not too hard. Minor drama just now. My daughter had him in the yard and a (fairly big) dog broke away from his or her owner and ran up to our fence. He went wild. He was already barking at dogs (there were two big dogs walking at once with different owners when they were still on the sidewalk) but when one came up nose to nose with him at our fence he went into a frenzy. My daughter doesn't know how to calm him the way I do so she was screaming. I ran outside and tried to calm him, but just had to hold his leash and let the owner take his dog away. My daughter told me to take Hero inside. I told her that I would not do so, that this was his yard. I also gave him a lesson in obeying me after that. I made him walk nicely on the leash, not pulling me and sit and stay-not bolt as soon as he felt like it- when he felt he had sat long enough. We'll get there. My daughter keeps thinking that he is too aggressive towards people and dogs to walk. I told her he just needs to learn, that even attack dogs can be walked if they are obedient.

Deb, still hopeful

 

[AGBF]

Oh, look at these two!!! They look perfect together!!

Yes, he slept in her bed with her last night.

 

[Platinum-blonde]

Maybe not easy peasy. But I hope not too hard. Minor drama just now. My daughter had him in the yard and a (fairly big) dog broke away from his or her owner and ran up to our fence. He went wild. He was already barking at dogs (there were two big dogs walking at once with different owners when they were still on the sidewalk) but when one came up nose to nose with him at our fence he went into a frenzy. My daughter doesn't know how to calm him the way I do so she was screaming. I ran outside and tried to calm him, but just had to hold his leash and let the owner take his dog away. My daughter told me to take Hero inside. I told her that I would not do so, that this was his yard. I also gave him a lesson in obeying me after that. I made him walk nicely on the leash, not pulling me and sit and stay-not bolt as soon as he felt like it- when he felt he had sat long enough. We'll get there. My daughter keeps thinking that he is too aggressive towards people and dogs to walk. I told her he just needs to learn, that even attack dogs can be walked if they are obedient.

Deb, still hopeful

Unfortunately, which I’m sure you’re already well aware of, with dogs with tremoultuous backgrounds can be reactive.

My parents, and my brother have had to dogs like that. It’s usually coming from fear. They say that if you show your dog that you (and other family members) are the alpha they will do better and not be so reactive.

My brother had huge gains once one of his dogs learned this. My parents, on the hand, were able to train their dogs for the most part, but both were still pretty reactive. However, they were ok having to deal with it, and to not be able to do certain things with their dogs, like take them environments that would trigger their reactive response. Although, my poor mom just wants a “normal” dog.

It sounds like you have the pain, and love for Hero to work through his challenges. Fingers crossed that he learns that life, for the most part, is full of love.

 

[lyra]

Slow and steady. His past may have left emotional scars that will take years to undo. But every dog slows down at some point. He should be safely exposed to other dogs from your yard. Even if it's to just sit on the leash and stay calm for short periods. He needs to feel secure. If he was severely neglected plus abused, he just has no idea how the world is supposed to work. I can see why he'd be fearful and reactive. Good luck Deb. Tell your daughter that he needs to see confidence in his people in order to fully trust them. He will feel more secure knowing his place in the world.

 

[MollyMalone]

Hero, and your daughter, are very fortunate to have your loving, knowledgeable, guiding presence in their lives, Deb (wish the halo in that angel emoji were burning brighter!)

 

[tyty333]

Congratulations AGBF! Looks like Hero and your daughter are going to be great friends! Have fun and enjoy your new "Hero"!

 

[AGBF]

I have not been posting about Hero, because I have been struggling with him a great deal. While I have continued both his obedience classes and his private obedience lessons, I notified the adoption agency that I did not want to finalize the adoption at the two week mark. I said I would continue to foster him and that I did not want my adoption fee back. I do not know if ours is the right home for him.

So far, I have only been able to take him on very short walks since I can only walk him with a prong collar and he is not trained to heel with that yet.

We also had a bad incident outside obedience class where he saw a dog to whom he reacted with such violence that even though he was wearing the prong collar, he pulled me to my knees. I managed to hold him, but my knees got shredded through heavy jeans. He was barking so ferociously that it seemed as if he wanted to tear the other dog apart. My daughter was traumatized to the point where she wanted to skip class, and it was only the teacher's appearance (courtesy of another student's having alerted him to the drama out in the parking lot) that saved us from returning home. The teacher took hold of Hero, told me to sit down and relax for the whole class, and used him as the demonstration dog.

I do not like the way the adoption agency is attempting to rehome him. They do not seem to be searching for an appropriate home for him. I think he may be part hound. He goes after scents. He "trees" things. (He goes to the base of trees where there may be squirrels or birds and barks like a fiend.) Today he smelled something and dug ferociously then bared his teeth at me and ran in circles.

This picture of a coonhound below looks a lot like him at the base of a tree. But the adoption agency is "advertizing" him as a Lab mix puppy that is good with children and other dogs. That couldn't be farther from the truth. He is a nut who jumps from one place to another whimpering and crying to be outside. He is loving and cuddly and wonderful. I do not want him to end up being euthanized. He needs to be placed with someone who hunts or does agility or throws a frisbee, and who is aware of what he is getting!!!

How did the coonhound that whitewater have get placed appropriately?

In the meantime, I keep trying to work with him toying with the idea of keeping him, but I know I cannot.

I just bought a muzzle, the kind a dog can breathe and drink in so I can walk him while I have him. Now I am trying to get him to like it by giving him treats through it!

I think my agency needs help! I love this dog. I need help! I need to work through them, but they appear clueless to me.


Deb/AGBF

(The photo below is not Hero.)

 

[lyra]

I'm so sorry Deb. I know this isn't easy for you, but you really need to have a dog that you can at least work with, and this guy has caused you physical harm and is giving your daughter anxiety. You really can't have that long term. I hope a suitable home can be found for him, if there is such a thing. Sounds like the adoption agency knew what they had in him, and just didn't want to disclose it. He may be dangerous to other dogs and people. So sad.

 

[redwood66]

Aw Deb this is too bad. But lyra is right that he is probably not good for you long term. I surely wouldn't want you or anyone else to get hurt.

 

[Bron357]

I’m so sorry. But I agree, Hero is not right for your home.
Unfortunately traumatized dogs require great and lengthy work for rehabilitation. He is a large dog and very strong and I think needs a more masculine environment to excel and succeed in.
He is not the right dog for your daughter, there is no shame in that, you tried. You can’t jeopardize your family peace of mind with a dog, beautiful as he is, with one that needs a lot of work. Your daughter will not feel safe, will not feel confident and neither will you with a dog that is so reactive.

Again, I’m so sorry for you. You did your best. Sending hugs.

 

[AGBF]

Your daughter will not feel safe, will not feel confident and neither will you with a dog that is so reactive.

She doesn't want to let him go. She just can't walk him! And I feel terrible! I crated him because my daughter and I both went out for about 15 minutes. I put a milk bone type bone (but wholesome) in his crate. When she got home she let him out of the crate. I did grocery shopping for about 45 minutes beyond the original 15. When I got home, he ate the "milk bone". He wouldn't eat it until I showed up. He has done this before. He won't eat a treat unless I come home! How can I give him up?

 

[Bron357]

She doesn't want to let him go. She just can't walk him! And I feel terrible! I crated him because my daughter and I both went out for about 15 minutes. I put a milk bone type bone (but wholesome) in his crate. When she got home she let him out of the crate. I did grocery shopping for about 45 minutes beyond the original 15. When I got home, he ate the "milk bone". He wouldn't eat it until I showed up. He has done this before. He won't eat a treat unless I come home! How can I give him up?

I understand.
I think you need to walk him in a harness as well. It will give you more physical control.
The journey to improving his “reactive ness” with other dogs will be long, but doable.
His problem is complicated and you don’t know his past. He needs to learn that other dogs aren’t a threat to him or the people (you and your daughter) he loves and wants to protect. This will take time and patience.
Don’t expect too much, too soon. Personally I think it is too soon for “group” training. He is obviously easily overwhelmed as he tries to adapt to a new, normal life. I would work on at home obedience, the big ones being “no” and “sit”. Maybe even teach him tricks like shake, down and roll.
Give him lots of love and give him the space and time to blossom.
Sending hugs xxxx

 

[MJ_Mac]

Oh Deb, I am so sorry you are going through this. It doesn't take long for us to become attached to our furry friends and vice versa.

 

[AGBF]

I understand.
I think you need to walk him in a harness as well. It will give you more physical control.
The journey to improving his “reactive ness” with other dogs will be long, but doable.
His problem is complicated and you don’t know his past. He needs to learn that other dogs aren’t a threat to him or the people (you and your daughter) he loves and wants to protect. This will take time and patience.
Don’t expect too much, too soon. Personally I think it is too soon for “group” training. He is obviously easily overwhelmed as he tries to adapt to a new, normal life. I would work on at home obedience, the big ones being “no” and “sit”. Maybe even teach him tricks like shake, down and roll.
Give him lots of love and give him the space and time to blossom.
Sending hugs xxxx

You have mentioned the harness before. I never mentioned this, but the harness was the "original" leash. The adoption folks put one on him so that I could get him home and I had a sturdier version of a harness at home waiting in case I needed one. (So he had a regular collar plus a harness the day I got him!) That was before I tried walking him on a choke collar or a prong collar. The harness did absolutely nothing. The prong collar works, but doesn't work in all circumstances, hence the need for a muzzle.

Thank you for the suggestions, though!

The group training is fine. It is the one on one before the group that is problematic. He goes after dogs unless he is with his teacher. In class the teacher's alpha presence keeps him good as gold. We even took a field trip (teacher, daughter, dog, and me) to a pet store and he saw other dogs and didn't act up due to alpha teacher's presence!

This is a circus!

Deb

 

[Cluless]

Hi Deb,
Sorry it's not going smoothly, but don't give up on him just yet. At this point I think you need to step up and assume the Alpha role, he needs to know that you are the '' Boss'' not him if not he'll just keep on pushing you around.
I found this hope it helps . Gook luck!

http://www.cbrrescue.org/articles/packleader.htm

 

[AGBF]

Hi Deb,
Sorry it's not going smoothly, but don't give up on him just yet. At this point I think you need to step up and assume the Alpha role, he needs to know that you are the '' Boss'' not him if not he'll just keep on pushing you around.
I found this hope it helps . Gook luck!

http://www.cbrrescue.org/articles/packleader.htm

Oh, dear. This really, really gave me pause. Thank you very much for the article, Cluless. I thought I knew everything I had to know about being the "alpha" trainer, but I really didn't get some of it it at all. I had been giving a command only once. (I learned that training a huge field Lab I had.) My dog was obeying me more and more. But I definitely "fawned over him" for things the article says not to.

Our teacher says that the only things that are educable are things about which one is aware. Therefore one has to make the dog aware of them.

If I like it that he urinates outside when I let him out I can name it and say, "Good dog, you did pee pee outside." That way he learns what I mean. But I don't have to go on an on about how wonderful it was that he urinated!

I have also seen really good alpha leaders of dogs do not get down on dog beds with dogs. The other dogs come to them. They stroke the dogs if the dogs are lying on them. I have always wanted to go lie down with dogs and cuddle. Perhaps I cannot do that. Perhaps the alpha dog does not do that! It will change what I like to get out of a relationship with a dog, but maybe that must be. Maybe I cannot just nuzzle Hero as I walk by him. But that is what I like to do. I know it isn't what Ken (the teacher) or Chris (my friend's husband) would do, however. They would let dogs lick them if they are lying in bed, but I can't see them stopping to nuzzle dogs. What do you think?

Deb

 

[lyra]

I find I do all the things in the article. I am the alpha and it's harder to get the other humans in the house to also follow through, than it is to get the dogs to understand some things. I have one really stubborn @ssh*le dog, and that is the longhaired white one Casper. He mostly doesn't listen to anyone, including me, but the second he is scared (like when he chokes, as all Chi's do) he RUNS to me. I think that article was all very common sense.

What is different about his teacher? Is it a male or female? Or is it just attitude? Very interesting. Still, you can't live with physical casualties for long. Good luck.

 

[Cluless]

Hi Deb,
I hope I didn't offend you, wasn't meant that way. You just seem like such a sweet person that I feel that maybe you need to toughen up and set up boundaries with him (like with any relationship)or he will walk all over you. They (dogs) are very smart creatures and certainly know how to manipulate us, I should know, I have a house full of little Brats that I adore lol

 

[House Cat]

Deb,

Please listen to your inner wisdom on this one. No one else is living with this dog and your daughter. If hero isn’t a good fit, it is ok that he goes back. You have so much going on already.

With my deepest respect...

 

[MollyMalone]

Deb,
Please listen to your inner wisdom on this one. No one else is living with this dog and your daughter. If hero isn’t a good fit, it is ok that he goes back. You have so much going on already.
With my deepest respect...

+1 x 1000.

 

[AGBF]

Thank you, everyone. I have been working with Hero as follows today: we "practiced" with the muzzle twice. (I was lazy yesterday and didn't go near it.) He really likes to have it placed over his face for a few seconds so that he can take treats through it. He has a positive association with it, so I left it on a low table where he finds it interesting. I am supposed to keep this up and eventually be able to put peanut butter or cream cheese inside it and put it on him for short times.

I also practiced sit; stay; down; and down stay outside. He has finally understood "down", I think. He also sometimes gets down from the fence if I yell at him to do so. I have noticed that his tail wags the while time he is barking ferociously at another dog who is walking by our yard. It sounds terrible and he is throwing himself at the fence with all his might. It could start a dog fight. But I am not sure his aim is to fight. It might be to play.

In other words, I am well aware a dog fight could ensue, but I am not sure he is aggressive, or simply young, playful, and not yet under control. And therefore a potential menace.

I have not been offended by anyone's comments and welcome suggestions.

Deb

 

[elle]

You are Hero’s hero - for not giving up at first sign of issues & trying to work through it with him. Rooting for y’all! Stay safe x

 

[Austina]

So sorry you’re having problems. That is the downside to taking on a rescue dog, you just never know what you’re in for.

Male Spinoni are big powerful dogs, and I know a lot of owners have had great success with controlled walking with a ‘gentle leader’ head collar.

As for the charging the gate and barking, our girl, who was very traumatised and withdrawn when she came to us, now does this. She sounds like a vicious killer, and in fact, one of our neighbours has 2 Akitas, who are terrified of her She doesn’t have an aggressive bone in her body (they’re well known for being non aggressive, non confrontational) so I can only assume she now feels secure enough to feel she’s protecting us. She also never barks, except when she chases a squirrel up a tree and stands up against it woofing like mad.

You can only do what you can do, and if after all your best efforts, you decide yours isn’t the right home, then you have to do what you think best for both of you. No one will judge you for at least trying and giving him a chance.

Can the trainer explain to you what he’s doing to make him behave that isn’t working for you? I found with our previous rescue, when I changed my demeanour to become alpha dog, he started responding better. (I’m not trying to make it sound that simple or imply you’re doing something wrong, just saying what worked for me).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[lovedogs]

@AGBF my situation is VERY different from yours, so definitely take it with a grain of salt. But here goes:

About 18 months ago our 2 dogs started fighting (what seemed to us) to be out of the blue. I was terrified, because our cockapoo is significantly stronger than our maltese and I thought one of them would get hurt. So we enrolled them in an intense 8-week training program where the dogs and owners go to class 1 time/week, plus an all day owner seminar (without dogs) to go over the "at home" portions of training. There were TONS of rules for "resetting" the hierarchy that I had a horribly hard time with. No more having them sleep on the bed. No more allowing them on furniture. No more randomly praising them for existing/overwhelming them with love and affection all the time. The idea wasn't to be *mean*, but just to re-set the relationship and build up the affection and love slowly, beginning with them respecting us and seeing DH and I as "alpha".

I HATED the first week or so, but the change in their behavior was almost immediate. As soon as I stopped letting them go wherever they wanted and always be able to cuddle me (which was one of the things they started fighting about--who got to cuddle), they listened better and their fighting stopped. As the trainer explained it, they were fighting BECAUSE they felt like one of them had to be "alpha", since neither DH or I were. Once we made it clear that WE were alpha, they lost all reason to fight.

I know this was a long post, and again I realize this is totally different from your situation. Mostly I wanted to encourage you to do what you feel is right (whether that's to keep working with him or to have him to back to the agency). But also wanted to say that I know how hard it is to change your interactions with dogs, especially when it comes to showing them who is "in charge".

 

[AGBF]

We have been through many struggles with Hero. Before the two week period in which I had to decide whether to adopt him ended, I told the agency that I was not willing to do so yet. I said that he needed a different type of home where he could get more exercise. I envisioned him living on a large piece of property with someone who was strong enough to control him on a leash and who would hike with him or use him for hunting. I saw him playing frisbee and running constantly.

The adoption agency was very slow to move to get him another home. When they did move, things fell through. One family who was supposed to visit me adopted another dog from a shelter the day before our scheduled visit. The agency kept finding potential homes in New York City apartment buildings where Hero's barking would have been a problem and which I thought would have been terrible places for him, even if he got a lot of exercise running with active owners.

I forgot to mention that in August the agency wanted to send him by transport (30 hours) back to Oklahoma to be in a foster home there as if it would have been batter than my home. They claimed he got "socialization" there (because he got along with the foster mother's dogs, I believe). I said i didn't want him sent back.

At any rate, within the past four or five days I told the agency that we wanted to adopt him. I can now stop him from barking incessantly outside if I am with him or join him and give him an oral command of, "No barking". Therefore I do not think we will have to move to a no-bark collar. The only time he absolutely will not stop barking outside our house is if he sees another dog, but then I can bring him inside. Since I do not live in an apartment house, my neighbors cannot hear him when he is inside! I can control his puppy nipping since he only does it when he is playing and gets overly excited and tries to be dominant. I never set him off, but other people do without knowing that they are doing it. My daughter, for instance, uses a high pitched voice and he then goes into a frenzy and runs around like a maniac biting and she thinks it it because there is something wrong with him. Sometimes she doesn't even know what she said in the high pitched tone, but I have heard it and can tell her.

I am sorry if this is poorly written and only semi-coherent, I had to go out and run errands in between sittings writing it. But I wanted to update the thread and to let all of you know where we are.

The scar on Hero's head is slowly healing. I had not thought that it would. We had to get a cone to keep him from licikng the area where his testicle had been, however, and it also stopped him from rubbing his head for a few days. That caused the scar to start to heal and it got better and better. I had had no idea he was rubbing it and that that rubbing must have been retarding the healing. Now he is actually getting some hair over its edges.

Hero got used to my putting Reddi Wip (with artificial sweetener) onto my coffee and giving him a little when I microwaved my coffee to reheat it sometimes. now whenever he smells coffee in the microwave he comes running. Even if I am having my coffee without Reddi Wip, I have to give him some Reddi Wip or I feel mean. At first I had a container with sugar that I was giving him, because I don't think dogs (or children) should get artificial sweetener, but I ran out of it. Lately he has been getting mine. I suppose I will have to get him his own container because I do not want to poison him!

I also give him Shoprite chicken noodle soup for a meal now and then.

When I realized how much he looks forward to the chicken noodle soup and Reddi Wip, I realized I couldn't give away. Someone else wouldn't know what to give him to make him happy when he came running for the microwave!

Deb

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

You're the BEST Mom!! Thank you for sharing--the noodle and wip story melted my heart.

cheers--Sharon

 

[lyra]

That's wonderful news Deb. I think he is in the right home for him. I didn't realize he was so young, and I thought the scar on his face was permanent. It's nice to hear that it is improving. He must be so happy to have a permanent home and a leader.