Here''s your pink slip! And oops, we paid too much severance, can we have it back?

[Mara]

Date: 2/23/2009 7:42:41 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Most people have to sign a severance agreement when they accept the money. In my opinion that equals a contract and the company can''t come back and try and take it back. I don''t care if they made a mistake. I don''t consider it an ethical thing and I would fight tooth and nail for that money if I had been in the position of the employees.

Actually what probably would have happened is they signed a severance agreement and then the money comes later. aka you say yes I am agreeing I get my vacation, severance is xyz etc...sign on the dotted line. Then I would imagine the check came 15 or 30 days later (or sometimes they offer to keep you on the payroll til the end of the month so you get 1 or 2 more regular checks and then you get the severance after) and it was larger. For most people I would imagine they might go ''oh I miscalc''d...I got more than I expected''...most people don''t know to the dime how much their vacation and whatever the payout is going to be.

But I''d still keep any extra unless they asked for it back. I have friends who have been unemployed for 6 months...you take whatever you can get when you are down and out.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/23/2009 7:48:06 PM
Author: Mara

Date: 2/23/2009 7:42:41 PM
Author: Hudson_Hawk
Most people have to sign a severance agreement when they accept the money. In my opinion that equals a contract and the company can''t come back and try and take it back. I don''t care if they made a mistake. I don''t consider it an ethical thing and I would fight tooth and nail for that money if I had been in the position of the employees.

Actually what probably would have happened is they signed a severance agreement and then the money comes later. aka you say yes I am agreeing I get my vacation, severance is xyz etc...sign on the dotted line. Then I would imagine the check came 15 or 30 days later (or sometimes they offer to keep you on the payroll til the end of the month so you get 1 or 2 more regular checks and then you get the severance after) and it was larger. For most people I would imagine they might go ''oh I miscalc''d...I got more than I expected''...most people don''t know to the dime how much their vacation and whatever the payout is going to be.

But I''d still keep any extra unless they asked for it back. I have friends who have been unemployed for 6 months...you take whatever you can get when you are down and out.

I agree with this, and I believe I would do the same. I''ve taken post it pads from companies, I admit it. Especially if I were facing who knows how long in unemployment and have a hungry mouth to feed.

I''d essentially probably hope they would not ask for it back.

I think Steel is right...what''s the point of pontificating when there are real people''s lives at stake? I just posed this question because while I think I would do the above, I would really struggle because I would know it was wrong. I might try to paint it as a dark shade of gray, but I''d be slapping some white paint on something that would be black in my book.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/23/2009 5:05:30 PM
Author: violet02
I just talked to my friend, he didn''t get letter... yet. He said they didn''t say how they did the calculations on the check he got but he did the math and said he came out to within give or take $200.00 so he knew if it was way off or not. So I''m still not sure how ''off'' these overpayments were.

Thanks for posting and the inside scoop violet!

 

[movie zombie]

as violet stated, M* goes by the book. unfortunately, they''ve outsourced a lot of things.....and while i don''t know for a fact they outsourced payroll accounting, i''m betting they did. if they have to eat this, they will get it back i''m sure. this is a company that twice now when i''ve had an accident [1-broke my ankle and 2-fell and rec''d a shoulder injury] sent me letters from legal wanting specific info in order to attempt to obtain reimbursement for my medical expenses.

if you overpaid a bill would you like to have your $ back? i know i would.

mz

 

[rainwood]

Microsoft has decided that the 25 affected people can keep the overpayment, which ranged from several hundred dollars to $5000. They also apologized and said they made a mistake both in the accounting and how they handled it.

 

[Steel]

Date: 2/23/2009 9:39:28 PM
Author: rainwood
Microsoft has decided that the 25 affected people can keep the overpayment, which ranged from several hundred dollars to $5000. They also apologized and said they made a mistake both in the accounting and how they handled it.

Classy.

 

[movie zombie]

if it was an accounting error by an outsourced group, the outsourced accounting group will pay up. if not, it will end up being a tax write off as a business expense in one column or another. i have complete faith that M* will utilize the situation to their advantage....as well they should.

the amounts were minute in the scope of daily business.....i''m sure it won''t happen again!

mz

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Wonder if they did the computations with Microsoft software . . .

 

[movie zombie]

my experience as a user and not a techie is that its always input error..........and my experiences with certain outsourced groups has left much to be desired.

mz

 

[violet02]

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9128462

Lisa Brummel herself called up the former employees about keeping the money... good way to combat bad PR.

 

[crown1]

i truly do not understand why people don''t see the other side of this. what if you were the employee or employees who made the error? would you not want to be able to ask that the extra money be returned so you may correct your error? the error was probably made by an individual or a few individuals not the "company". who of us has not made a mistake and when we caught it just wanted to repair it? no doubt who ever made the mistake will figuratively pay for the overcompensation. i would not want to be responsible for someone maybe losing their job due to an error i could have helped remedy.

i know microsoft is a huge company who has made a potload of money but why do people resent that and think it owns them something more than a fair shake? the noise that was made by this got the "lucky" individuals who were overcompensated the privilege of keeping the money, but how about the other over 1000 who just got what they earned, are they now going to feel cheated since they did not get what the others got? we have become a nation of people who feel entitled.

 

[Thomperchik]

I work for a large corporation and I can tell you personally that I have a hard time believing Microsoft.

It''s usually the other way around. People tend to be under compensated and the ex-employee generally has to go back to ask for their true compensation.

I know they''re stating it, but I''m not believing them...

 

[Mara]

crown 1: "owes them something more than a fair shake?"
____________________

that's the rub...what IS a fair shake? i don't know how much the MS employees got compensated, though violet said the packages were pretty good, but i think everyone's going to have a diff idea of what's fair. what if the package was just 1 month? i have known a lot of people who got that when they got laid off. in that case, is that enough for their time of employment, what if it was 2 years they invested? some say yes, some would say no.

in reality, i think there is not much 'fair' surrounding at-will employment. i know it's supposed to be like you can leave / i can leave so that's equal kind of thing, but more often than not, it seems that the company wants you to leave and tosses you a thin bone while they help you carry your belongings out in front of your coworkers. sure some companies are very nice about it but the majority, not so much.

people leaving the job on their own typically try to give 2 weeks or longer of notice, but companies?

btw thomper, your dog is sooo cute.

 

[violet02]

Date: 2/24/2009 10:57:19 AM
Author: Thomperchik
I work for a large corporation and I can tell you personally that I have a hard time believing Microsoft.

It''s usually the other way around. People tend to be under compensated and the ex-employee generally has to go back to ask for their true compensation.

I know they''re stating it, but I''m not believing them...

I''m not sure I understand what you mean here. What do you not believe? That they are going to let them keep the money or... ?

 

[violet02]

Date: 2/24/2009 11:07:31 AM
Author: Mara
crown 1: ''owes them something more than a fair shake?''
____________________

that''s the rub...what IS a fair shake? i don''t know how much the MS employees got compensated, though violet said the packages were pretty good, but i think everyone''s going to have a diff idea of what''s fair. what if the package was just 1 month? i have known a lot of people who got that when they got laid off. in that case, is that enough for their time of employment, what if it was 2 years they invested? some say yes, some would say no.

in reality, i think there is not much ''fair'' surrounding at-will employment. i know it''s supposed to be like you can leave / i can leave so that''s equal kind of thing, but more often than not, it seems that the company wants you to leave and tosses you a thin bone while they help you carry your belongings out in front of your coworkers. sure some companies are very nice about it but the majority, not so much.

people leaving the job on their own typically try to give 2 weeks or longer of notice, but companies?

btw thomper, your dog is sooo cute.

I think if you get laid off then it''s going to seem unfair, period. Particularly if you were really good at your job. Getting laid off sucks, period. I don''t think any matter of money is going to make you feel okay about what happens to you when you''re laid off. Particularly in this economy.

If you want to say if a severance package is ''good'' or not then how much severance would make you feel better if you were laid off? Less freaked out etc. That also depends on your situation. I don''t have a mortgage and I have a DH that works, so six months is really good for me. If I had kids, a mortgage etc. That wouldn''t be enough.

MS gave all employess a min. of 8 weeks matter how long you were there for. Some folks had a week before they had to go, (not sure if some got less than that, maybe). Some people were given 60 days before they had to leave. During that time a career center was set up to help them (the ones that got 60 days) find jobs internally in other groups. If you''d been at the company just a few months you would get the 8 weeks. If you''d been there six months you''d get 9 weeks and so on. The longer you put in the more you get. So for those folks who hadn''t been there long the severance wasn''t much more than a couple months.

When I was laid off (all 3x) I got no severance. THAT was tough, for sure. My friend worked for a really big company and when they had a layoff they escorted them all out of the building that same day. That''s pretty bad. My startup gave us until 5pm (years ago) to pack all of our stuff up and be out of the building as well.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/24/2009 10:34:12 AM
Author: crown1
i truly do not understand why people don''t see the other side of this. what if you were the employee or employees who made the error? would you not want to be able to ask that the extra money be returned so you may correct your error? the error was probably made by an individual or a few individuals not the ''company''. who of us has not made a mistake and when we caught it just wanted to repair it? no doubt who ever made the mistake will figuratively pay for the overcompensation. i would not want to be responsible for someone maybe losing their job due to an error i could have helped remedy.

i know microsoft is a huge company who has made a potload of money but why do people resent that and think it owns them something more than a fair shake? the noise that was made by this got the ''lucky'' individuals who were overcompensated the privilege of keeping the money, but how about the other over 1000 who just got what they earned, are they now going to feel cheated since they did not get what the others got? we have become a nation of people who feel entitled.

Ha, no kidding.

"Hey I deserve a mistaken overpayment too! Gimme the money! I need it to tide me over a bit on the house on which I overextended myself...just need a tad more time until the government can bail me out, thanks!"

 

[movie zombie]

re the letter: hubby told me this a.m. that he''s rec''d the same letter when they''ve made an error regarding taxes on stock or another benefit. he says M* will pay the taxes so one actually gets the amount, let''s say $5000 [instead of saying they''re giving $5k and then taking tax out of it like so many of my employers have done!]. he''s never felt it was a bad move for them to send the letter and he never felt resentful of having to pay the $ back saying that tax law makes it difficult and he appreciates receiving the amount they said they were giving him in the first place tax free.

granted this is slightly different than a layoff situation.

mz

 

[FrekeChild]

Date: 2/23/2009 5:00:49 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 2/23/2009 4:53:51 PM
Author: FrekeChild

Date: 2/23/2009 4:10:28 PM
Author: TravelingGal

It would be nice of MS owned up to the mistake, I agree and just let these people move on. But they haven''t and obviously want this money back...maybe to help get their budgets healthy again and prevent more layoffs? Hm.

But aren''t they already planning for more layoffs?

Yes, I imagine accounting might be going soon...

LMAO!!!!

 

[Clairitek]

Wow this thread has progressed a lot since I last posted.

TGal- Thanks for always playing a great Devil''s Advocate and giving us another viewpoint. Now I feel bad about that post-it pad and pencil I hijacked from the office supply cabinet today.

Violet- Thanks for giving us some enlightenment about the inside of MS and setting us straight. Those so sound like pretty nice severance packages. I hope your friend is able to find another job sooner rather than later.