Here we go again... (sorry!)

[AJKL7476]

I already posted this in another thread but I just wanted to reiterate - You guys are awesome! From what I''ve seen on this site, everyone is so supportive, informative, and not to mention patient (especially w/ us newbies)

Buying a diamond is such an intimidating process. Starting from walking into a store (or searching online) to calculating the most for our money to confirming we got what we paid for, it can all be so overwhelming! *sigh* Thank God you guys exist!

OK, so here we go... another comparison. The specs are listed below.

Shape: Round Brilliant
Carat: 1.4
Color: I
Clarity: VS2
Depth: 59.5%
Table: 61%
Fluor: None
Polish: VG
Symm: VG
Cut: EX
Girdle: n/a
Cert: EGL
Price: $5506

Shape: Round Brilliant
Carat: 1.3
Color: H
Clarity: SI1
Depth: 62.1%
Table: 57%
Fluor: None
Polish: EX
Symm: EX
Cut: Ideal
Girdle: n/a
Cert: EGL
Price: $5646


Q1 - Is it worth sacrificing size and clarity for a cut and measurements that are better? (Still not familiar with which aspect(s) outweighs another or can be compromised)
Q2 - I''ve read EGL certs can be off. Is it hit or miss, or do more reputable sellers (like WF or DoW) have a better probability that the EGL certs are more accurate?

I appreciate any input, advice, comment, criticism, rebuke, chastise, etc... whatever it takes me to learn.

 

[JulieN]

Q1 - Is it worth sacrificing size and clarity for a cut and measurements that are better? (Still not familiar with which aspect(s) outweighs another or can be compromised) We don't know how good the cut is. The crown and pav percentages should be on the EGL report which will give us a clue about the cut, but it's still a wild guess. You're already at the lower end of color and clarity, so you're going to have to sacrifice size to get something well cut.

Q2 - I've read EGL certs can be off. Is it hit or miss, or do more reputable sellers (like WF or DoW) have a better probability that the EGL certs are more accurate? It is pretty hit or miss. Some EGL certs, like EGL-Israel are worse than others (EGL-USA). But still, pretty hit or miss. It doesn't matter who the vendor is, but someone reputable will tell you if they think the diamond is in reasonable agreement with the report. EGL stones are cheaper than GIA/AGS, and WF (for example) will not take EGL stones as trade-ins.

What is DoW?

Hi, AJKL! Aww, shucks, that's really nice of you. Welcome to PS!

The prices for those two stones are very cheap.

If you don't mind, I'll start us off with some stones I've found in the 5-6K range that I think are worth pursuing, and I'll narrate my thoughts:

1.12 H SI2: http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/a-cut-above-h-a-cut-diamond-2173438.htm
Beautiful looking IS image. I tried to find the inclusions on the 40x mag, but I couldn't find them. Looking at the AGS inclusion plot, it seems to be many, small (that's good) clear/white crystals.

1.14 I SI1: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=633127
Shows a tiny bit of leakage at 7 o'clock, but the stone is probably just tilted. Still looks great. Though there are a few specs in the mag, I think it could be eye-clean.

1.2 I SI2: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=633129
Again, beautiful. Looking at the mag images and taking into account it's $4.5K, I am suspicious about it's eye-cleanliness. You'll have to check with JA.

1.2 K VS2: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/1891/
Yes, a K. Looks beautiful. Pictures of a 1 ct K here, starting on page 2 and it goes on for very long: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/just-got-wf-pics-of-diamond-what-do-you-think.43869/ Several Ks around PS. I think it's one of those things you have to see in person before you know if you can go to a K or not.

Couldn't find any in-house J SI1s, unfortunately.

 

[Lorelei]

Welcome to PS

EGL USA is considered to be more accurate with the grading than EGL Europe, Israel etc, but not as strict as GIA and AGS. Now this isn't ALWAYS the case, there are many EGL diamonds that have appraised correctly. In general you will pay considerably more for a GIA certed or AGS diamond etc, but if you find a diamond you love with an EGL cert which checks out with an independant appraisal - whyever not?

Cut quality may be more difficult to determine as EGL uses %'s instead of angles however.

Read this thread http://grading.pricescope.com/#EGL this will help you to decide if an EGL diamond is an option for you. Also I wouldn't buy either of the diamonds you posted, the depths and table sizes aren't the best and not enough other info. Read up the tutorial under knowledge too as you want to learn what to look for regarding cut proportions, this will help you immensley! There is a fair bit of work and study involved but well worth it in the long run.

 

[AJKL7476]

OMG~ you are amazing... Thank you so much for going through all that effort!
Your results really helped me grasp a better understanding of what I need to look for.

People (including me) generally assumed bigger was better and rarely spent the time to learn about quality/craftsmanship. I was also surprised to see that people don''t mind an SI (eye clean - never knew what that meant until now). Where in contrast, I''ve always heard from word of mouth, and even saw on a website, that you shouldn''t buy below anything below a VVS. I get the impression that most people on this site prefer a well cut diamond versus one that is big and clean. Thanks for sharing all the tips/tricks regarding diamonds~

DoW - Diamonds on Web. Sorry to lazy to type it out.

 

[AJKL7476]

Hello!

Thank you for the info. I will read up on EGL certs as you have recommended.

Oh, I am disappointed to hear that they aren''t that good. I thought they somewhat fell in line w/ the 60/60 rule.
But on the flipside I am grateful for your honest opinions. I wouldn''t want to buy a mediocre diamond...

 

[JulieN]

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/60.asp

 

[AJKL7476]

*duh* ... i feel so retarded. Thanks for enlightening me.

 

[AJKL7476]

Great reading... but I think I''m obsessed now. Lately, I''ve been staying up late into the night trying to find the perfect (for me) diamond.

How about this one from Engagementringsdirect? Let me know if I''m on the right track.

Lot Number : 9459348
Cut : Ideal
Clarity : VS2
Shape : Round
Color : J
Polish : Very Good
Symmetry : Excellent
Certification : GIA
Carats : 1.35
Depth : 61.4
Table : 57
Fluorescence : Faint Blue
Measurement : 7.10x7.13x4.37
Girdle : M
Culet : None
Price : $5,675

 

[JulieN]

Need more information.

 

[AJKL7476]

Really?? But that''s all they give on the website.

*argh*
I''m guessing you are refering to the angle measurements, right? OK, there has got to be a way to obtain all this info no?
Thanks for your patience... I feel like a diamond Jedi undergoing strict training.

I will do better next time master~

 

[JulieN]

Yup, you can... ask Mark for the numbers. He will probably get on the phone with the supplier and get back to you.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/15/2006 1:06:51 AM
Author: AJKL7476
Really?? But that''s all they give on the website.

*argh*
I''m guessing you are refering to the angle measurements, right? OK, there has got to be a way to obtain all this info no?
Thanks for your patience... I feel like a diamond Jedi undergoing strict training.

I will do better next time master~

ask the vendor to do a sarin or a helium scan.

 

[AJKL7476]

Who is Mark? Is that his nick name or real name?

 

[AJKL7476]

ohhh I can ask them to do that? Is that free of charge or do I have to pay them? Does these requests apply to all or most vendors or just a select few?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/15/2006 1:41:24 AM
Author: AJKL7476
ohhh I can ask them to do that? Is that free of charge or do I have to pay them? Does these requests apply to all or most vendors or just a select few?

the vendor should do it for free.

2 IFs......

1- IF the vendor have the stone inhouse.

2-IF the vendor have a sarin machine.

3- OR the vendor can get the info from the manufacture

 

[AJKL7476]

Thanks D-Fire! I see if they can get me the Sarin/Helium scan.

BTW, I like your watch

 

[AJKL7476]

I just got the EGL cert for diamond#1 (1.4ct) from the vendor.

Measurements 7.35 - 7.33 x 4.37 mm
Total Depth 59.5%
Table Width 61%
Crown Height 13%
Pavilion Depth 44%
Girdle Thin

Are these numbers good? I''m still learning about angles and percents. So confusing!

I hope they are bad, because I''ve been informed that it has already been sold.

 

[JulieN]

heh, don''t worry. that''s not a stone you want.

 

[lizz]

EGL is notorious for leniency in grading. They are often off in grading, sometimes up to 2 color grades (often off in clarity as well). I would go with a GIA lab report, which is an internationally respected lab. GIA has the best rep. There are plenty of GIA stones out there, why go with EGL? Especially if you're buying online, I would go the GIA route. Just MHO.

ETA: Sorry, forgot to add GIA or AGS. I forgot we were talking round brilliants. AGS will give you more info than GIA in this case.

 

[AJKL7476]

*whew* thanks~

It''s such a toss up. Take a chance and hope you get a EGL cert that is actually accurate and save money. Or be safe and spend more on a GIA/AGS.

 

[pebbles]

In my humble, non expert opinion, I would pay more and get a GIA or AGS stone. There are plenty of good ones out there, so why waste you time looking for at EGLs? I know there are some good EGL stones out there, but it seems like they are a needle in a haystack.

What is your price range?

 

[AJKL7476]

Pebbles..

The budget is around $4500 (diamond only, already have a setting). I''m willing to sacrifice the cut for a larger size... meaning, I don''t necessarily need something with ideal measurements. Very good is good enough for me.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 5/21/2006 9:12:19 PM
Author: AJKL7476
Pebbles..

The budget is around $4500 (diamond only, already have a setting). I''m willing to sacrifice the cut for a larger size... meaning, I don''t necessarily need something with ideal measurements. Very good is good enough for me.

the problem is...it may not look larger b/c most likely you will end up buying a deep cut stone that will look smaller than a well cut stone.

 

[Carlotta]

Guess I was thinking same thing.....well cut stone will look bigger...can you sacrifice something else - color, clarity??

 

[JulieN]

Darn, Wink had an Infinity H&A 1.5 J I1 for 5K. Sold.

 

[pebbles]

You say your budget is $4500 for the stone, yet all the ones you posted were more expensive than that.

What about these? They are right around $4500.

I.06ct I, SI2 Round H&A
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2125/

0.90ct H, SI1 Round H&A
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2131/

1.04ct I, SI2
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2045516.htm#

If you are not concerned about having an ideal cut stone, this one is Very Good by GIA''s old standards. Would have to see if it is eye clean though:
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-2408706.htm#

This one by Whiteflash is also just above budget (at $4779). I like the fact that it has medium blue fluorescence. Again, you would have to check and see that it is eye clean:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-2068567.htm

Hope that helps!