Here we go again. Protect the institution, not the kids

[kenny]

Didn't we just talk about the Boy Scouts of America protecting a molester for years and years while he continued to molest kids?
Well it seems Penn State has been doing this too.

Why didn't the University just call the cops when a witnesses saw this old man, a famous coach for their all-important football team, molesting a 10 year old boy in the showers in the 1990s?
Now we know many more kids were molested because this coach was allowed Carte Blanche to the University even after he retired.

We need FEDERAL laws requiring reporting of this to police, not to supervisors in the institutions.
Power corrupts and people will look out only for their jobs, institutions will look out only for its image, not the kids.
Institutions and 50 state legislatures cannot be trusted to do the right thing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/07/us-crime-coach-pennsylvania-idUSTRE7A42EX20111107

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/07/justice/pennsylvania-coach-abuse-timeline/?hpt=ju_c2

 

[mary poppins]

Kenny, I thought of you and the recent Boy Scouts thread you started when I read the article on CNN earlier today.

 

[iheartscience]

I just read about this yesterday. UNBELIEVABLE. I think Joe Paterno should be charged, too, and it's a travesty that he hasn't been. He is just as guilty as the athletic director and the VP who were charged. And so is the police officer who talked to Jerry Sandusky in 1999 and DIDN'T CHARGE HIM. I also don't understand why the graduate assistant didn't go straight to the police when he SAW Jerry Sandusky raping a 10 year old boy. Seriously disgusting.

 

[ksinger]

Didn't we just talk about the Boy Scouts of America protecting a molester for years and years while he continued to molest kids?
Well it seems Penn State has been doing this too.

Why didn't the University just call the cops when a witnesses saw this old man, a famous coach for their all-important football team, molesting a 10 year old boy in the showers in the 1990s?
Now we know many more kids were molested because this coach was allowed Carte Blanche to the University even after he retired.

We need FEDERAL laws requiring reporting of this to police, not to supervisors in the institutions.
Power corrupts and people will look out only for their jobs, institutions will look out only for its image, not the kids.
Institutions and 50 state legislatures cannot be trusted to do the right thing.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/07/us-crime-coach-pennsylvania-idUSTRE7A42EX20111107

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/07/justice/pennsylvania-coach-abuse-timeline/?hpt=ju_c2

You answered your own question, and the answer is the same regardless of the situation - outing it would be a hit to the prestige, win potential, and big-backer FUNDING of their all-important football program, which brings in millions and millions of dollars every year. It's all about the money and the power and the testosterone. Sounds like the Boy Scouts and the Catholic Church doesn't it...?

Somewhat tangential, but you REALLY don't want to get me started on organized team sports - especially fooball, at the highschool level.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I heard about this today. It is disgusting. Why someone's FIRST instinct is not to call 911 is baffling. Isn't not reporting a crime a crime?

 

[Puppmom]

This is just sad all around. The man who did this is sick and clearly had no regard for the law or the poor children he molested . I don't understand how the rest of 'em were able to sleep at night knowing this was happening.

edited for spelling

 

[ksinger]

I heard about this today. It is disgusting. Why someone's FIRST instinct is not to call 911 is baffling. Isn't not reporting a crime a crime?

Circling the wagons to protect the powerful is as old as civilization I suspect. So, no, not reporting a crime is not a crime if you're a special class of people, protected by the power of a huge institution....like the Catholic Church, which still holds the record for institutional arrogance and willful blindness. Subverting attempts by individuals outside and inside the church to honestly address the issue has been met with obstruction at every turn. And yes, it is revolting.

"The (Cloyne) report gave details of a confidential letter sent in 1997 by the Vatican’s nuncio, or ambassador, in Ireland to Irish bishops(some of whom authored a child-protection policy back in 1996), warning them that their child-protection policies violated canon law, which states that priests accused of abuse should be able to appeal their cases to the Vatican. The nuncio also dismissed the Irish guidelines as “a study document.”"

I've actually read the Mass Attorney General's report in its entirety back in what...2002? And portions of the Cloyne Report most recently. As I recall, in both instances, church officials did NOT hew to the laws of the land, AND civil authorities themselves were loathe to investigate on the rare occasion when charges were brought against a priest - due no doubt in large part to the ingrained deference given to men of the cloth. A truly toxic combination. I'm sure on some level the Irish people are doing some deep soul-searching within themselves, that this could have been ignored so widely across the society for so long. In any case, I suspect their soul-searching has already been more honest and productive than anything mustered up by the church, whose track record continues to be dismal. It's no wonder Ireland has closed their Vatican embassy....and according to sources the Vatican is "extremely irritated". They really still just don't get it.

The same forces are at play in the Boy Scout issue....

 

[ksinger]

Excerpt explaining why a witness might not report, for those who can't fathom it.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/bigten/story/2011-11-07/Penn-State-Joe-Paterno-sexual-abuse-scandal/51116384/1

"Kelly was asked whether Paterno had a moral obligation to go further.

"Those of us who have been in the law for a while know that there is a difference between moral and legal guilt," she said. "Right now, those of us up here are concerned about legal guilt. I'm not going to comment on morality."

State police commissioner Frank Noonan did just that, however. "Somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child," Noonan said. He added that means anyone: "Whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

That view is shared by David Clohessy, director of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests.

"If I see my neighbor's house being broken into or my neighbor's wife being beaten up, I may not have a legal duty to report it," Clohessy said. "When a child is being sexually violated by a powerful, charismatic adult, the moral imperative to call police is dramatically higher and stronger."

Paul Mones is a sexual abuse attorney and children's rights advocate in Portland, Ore., who has represented victims of sexual abuse in litigation against youth organizations, religious institutions and schools, including suits against the Boy Scouts of America and the Catholic Church. He declined to comment on the Penn State case directly, but addressed why even a potential witness to child abuse might not step in.

"I don't think it's in our cultural DNA to intervene in certain situations. I would also say in my almost 30 years of doing this kind of work, it is extremely unusual for someone to walk in at the time a sexual assault on a child is taking place. And so it's almost like the person who witnesses it can't integrate it into their understanding of things as they see the world. …

"But clearly if we are to believe the grand jury report that (the grad assistant) told somebody about it, it is the rare person who will intervene, especially in large institutions. You very rarely find reports of abuse where the person is directly confronted. So, for instance, in the Catholic Church cases, when abuse happens, they don't confront the priest and tell him to stop. They go to the person's superior."
Clohessy draws parallels between Penn State officials and Catholic bishops in the church's recent abuse scandal.

"First, their refusal to call police, immediately or ever," he said. "Second, the apparent concern for the reputation of an institution over the safety of kids. And third, the absolute bare minimum of action by smart men who know better."

"You have to question motive here," Clohessy said. "Common sense strongly suggests Paterno was protecting himself, his reputation and the reputation of his football program and the university itself, or some combination thereof."

'He did what he had to do'"

 

[vintagelover229]

Double post

 

[vintagelover229]

There are MANY powerful people protected who should be locked away for many reasons. Here is more about the corruption in our government offices involving sex scandles and young boys/girls. A guy wrote a book on it after he did some investigating himself.

http://www.franklinscandal.com/

IMO there is so many of them that they really need a whole team investigating the issue. Alas those who are getting away with it have the funding, friends and power to get away with their sick lifestyle and then when one or two scandles come out the public is horrified but in reality they really have no idea just how high up and wide spread the issue is.

 

[packrat]

This makes my heart hurt and my stomach twist and it's something I have never been able to get my brain to comprehend. I think it says something about our society that we allow things like this to happen. I don't get how a person could *walk in* and see something like that and just be like, oops pardon me, excuse me, sorry to interrupt. Someone's job is more important than a child getting raped/molested? That's asinine, barbaric, and depraved.

 

[slg47]

This makes my heart hurt and my stomach twist and it's something I have never been able to get my brain to comprehend. I think it says something about our society that we allow things like this to happen. I don't get how a person could *walk in* and see something like that and just be like, oops pardon me, excuse me, sorry to interrupt. Someone's job is more important than a child getting raped/molested? That's asinine, barbaric, and depraved.

the person who walked in did report it (but not to the police, to others at penn state).

some states have a duty to report law where you MUST report to a law enforcement agency within 48 hours.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

I heard about this today. It is disgusting. Why someone's FIRST instinct is not to call 911 is baffling. Isn't not reporting a crime a crime?

Circling the wagons to protect the powerful is as old as civilization I suspect. So, no, not reporting a crime is not a crime if you're a special class of people, protected by the power of a huge institution....like the Catholic Church, which still holds the record for institutional arrogance and willful blindness. Subverting attempts by individuals outside and inside the church to honestly address the issue has been met with obstruction at every turn. And yes, it is revolting.

"The (Cloyne) report gave details of a confidential letter sent in 1997 by the Vatican’s nuncio, or ambassador, in Ireland to Irish bishops(some of whom authored a child-protection policy back in 1996), warning them that their child-protection policies violated canon law, which states that priests accused of abuse should be able to appeal their cases to the Vatican. The nuncio also dismissed the Irish guidelines as “a study document.”"

I've actually read the Mass Attorney General's report in its entirety back in what...2002? And portions of the Cloyne Report most recently. As I recall, in both instances, church officials did NOT hew to the laws of the land, AND civil authorities themselves were loathe to investigate on the rare occasion when charges were brought against a priest - due no doubt in large part to the ingrained deference given to men of the cloth. A truly toxic combination. I'm sure on some level the Irish people are doing some deep soul-searching within themselves, that this could have been ignored so widely across the society for so long. In any case, I suspect their soul-searching has already been more honest and productive than anything mustered up by the church, whose track record continues to be dismal. It's no wonder Ireland has closed their Vatican embassy....and according to sources the Vatican is "extremely irritated". They really still just don't get it.

The same forces are at play in the Boy Scout issue....

I heard today on the radio that the other men involved (that didn't report the abuse to the police) can be charged up to 7 years in prison so maybe justice will be served.

 

[phoenixgirl]

So very sad. Something very similar happened at the Wharton School of Business a few years ago (he was a professor who also worked with a charity for young boys and was always "helping" them and taking them on vacation and such). It didn't make the news as much . . . is the difference the football angle? Here's a link: http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_brilliant_professor_ward/

I taught at a high school where football was king, and I just didn't get it, you know, that I was supposed to give football players special treatment. I had this star senior in my journalism class, and he was literally sexually harassing me. Then I found out he wasn't even recommended for my class (a prereq), so when I asked the head of school counseling to remove him, he literally said, "Oh, the football coach wants him in the class." I was like, "And?" Then I had a series of back and forths with the coach, who was totally unmoved by my description of his behavior. It wasn't until I said the kid was failing anyway that he was like, oh my, we'll certainly remove him. OK, thanks football coach. And it's not even like we were making money off of it, ya know? It was just a big deal because we often made the regional or even state championships and our players got recruited and got to go to schools they were woefully unqualified to attend academically. So I guess I can see how at a Big 10 School (it's a big 10 school, right? Ha ha, I don't know!), they would feel untouchable and godlike. Not that that makes it right.

 

[ksinger]

So very sad. Something very similar happened at the Wharton School of Business a few years ago (he was a professor who also worked with a charity for young boys and was always "helping" them and taking them on vacation and such). It didn't make the news as much . . . is the difference the football angle? Here's a link: http://www.phillymag.com/articles/the_brilliant_professor_ward/

I taught at a high school where football was king, and I just didn't get it, you know, that I was supposed to give football players special treatment. I had this star senior in my journalism class, and he was literally sexually harassing me. Then I found out he wasn't even recommended for my class (a prereq), so when I asked the head of school counseling to remove him, he literally said, "Oh, the football coach wants him in the class." I was like, "And?" Then I had a series of back and forths with the coach, who was totally unmoved by my description of his behavior. It wasn't until I said the kid was failing anyway that he was like, oh my, we'll certainly remove him. OK, thanks football coach. And it's not even like we were making money off of it, ya know? It was just a big deal because we often made the regional or even state championships and our players got recruited and got to go to schools they were woefully unqualified to attend academically. So I guess I can see how at a Big 10 School (it's a big 10 school, right? Ha ha, I don't know!), they would feel untouchable and godlike. Not that that makes it right.

As I said above, you REALLY don't want to get me started on highschool fooball. And the pressure to give special treatment to star athletes? Gah! The disproportionate energy, time, and money wasted on that stupid sport chaps me no end. The so-called benefit - sportsmanship, etc, is flat-out non-existent for the majority of students. But fooball is LIFE - GAWD'S sport - so the rest of the world be damned. And so it is, even unto the college level, as we have just seen.

Must..end...rant...now...

 

[phoenixgirl]

Sorry, ksinger, didn't mean to add fuel to the fire! I was just wondering why this case is getting so much more attention than the Wharton case when the stories are eerily similar. I, for one, never caved to the pressure. I was waiting for someone to outright tell me I *had* to give preferential treatment. Thankfully no one was that dumb. I think the football coach crossed "journalism" off his list of GPA-boosting academic electives after that, ha ha.

 

[ksinger]

Sorry, ksinger, didn't mean to add fuel to the fire! I was just wondering why this case is getting so much more attention than the Wharton case when the stories are eerily similar. I, for one, never caved to the pressure. I was waiting for someone to outright tell me I *had* to give preferential treatment. Thankfully no one was that dumb. I think the football coach crossed "journalism" off his list of GPA-boosting academic electives after that, ha ha.

Yeah, sorry. I was never a fan, and I live in a state where football is truly an obsession. NOT finding it the be all and end all of existence makes me odd man out. People seriously act like you're gone in the head if you don't follow football. And I've given it a chance, honestly. I used to date a guy whose family had perfect 50-yardline season tickets to OU. I attended. Yawn.

But my own personal meh-ness with the sport, the stories I hear disgust me - from coaches negatively impacting their players academic life, to how coaches nowadays are pushing their players into unhealthy obesity in order to have bigger players than the next team. It's a true scandal.

 

[mary poppins]

Just announced on cnn.com that Joe Paterno is retiring at the end of this season. He was probably going to do that anyway. Too bad it was under these circumstances.

 

[mary poppins]

Wednesday evening update - after announcing this afternoon his retirement scheduled for end of this season, Joe Paterno got fired. Ousted effective immediately.

ETA: President Graham Spanier also fired.

 

[kenny]

Wednesday evening update - after announcing this afternoon his retirement scheduled for end of this season, Joe Paterno got fired. Ousted effective immediately.

ETA: President Graham Spanier also fired.

 

[ksinger]

Yet another reason why I'm so against organized sports. It has a terrifying potential to turn individuals into a vicious mob. THIS is about the most disgusting display I've seen in quite awhile. Over FOOTBALL?? Children were RAPED and what amounts to the entire upper management DID NOTHING! And now these near-children are up in arms that the captain took the hit for his clear lack of moral fiber?? Something is seriously seriously wrong with those rioters. Their priorities are breathtakingly out of whack. Sports makes people insane, I swear.

McQueary should be out the door too, IMO. HE had the chance to pry the monster OFF that boy at that moment and DID NOTHING, and then silently watched that man come and go at his whim for years after - with more children no doubt. REVOLTING. Really. I haven't been this disgusted in many a year. Good on Penn State for canning the man. I hope they also take away his pension. But I'm sure they won't have enough balls for THAT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/11/sports/ncaafootball/penn-state-students-riot-after-joe-paterno-is-ousted.html

And the REAL reason that Paterno was booted. They probably didn't give a fiddler's damn that children were sacrificed on the altar of football, just that it was found out and now it's going to cost the university and the "important people" who make obscene amounts of money from college sports. GAHHHH!

http://money.cnn.com/2011/11/10/news/companies/penn_state_football_scandal/?source=cnn_bin

"Beyond the human tragedy of the child abuse scandal engulfing Penn State football, there is a significant financial cost that is likely to be suffered by one of the most lucrative sports teams in the country.
On Wednesday, the shock of the child abuse scandal rocking the State College, Pa., campus -- which has led to criminal charges against a former assistant coach, the athletic director and another university official -- led to the ouster of Joe Paterno, the iconic head coach of the program for the last 46 seasons.

Experts in sports marketing said the program might suffer only a limited hit to revenue in the near term. But longer term, a major source of funds for the state school are at risk.
"Their brand has been irrevocably tarnished," said Marc Ganis, head of SportsCorp Ltd., a sports marketing firm. "In a matter of days, they have plummeted from being perceived as the cleanest, most ethical brand in college sports to the lowest of the lows."

 

[ImperfectGirl]

I just cannot believe the news footage of the rioting/protesting at Penn State after Paterno's firing. I mean, seriously?? So beyond idiotic. He should have been fired, if not charged.

 

[ksinger]

State of idiocy
http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2011/11/state_of_idiocy.html

and

what did he know, and when did he know it?
http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/sports/mark_madden/madden-sandusky-a-state-secret/article_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html#user-comment-area

Sounds like a good chance that they knew, and simply shuffled him. Sound familiar?

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

Off topic, but in response to earlier posts:

I'd like to chime in and say that I experienced quite the opposite of your experiences as a high school teacher, thankfully. My school's football team won state, and the football players in my chemistry class were generally very respectful and hard-working, due in large part to the incredible leadership of their coach. In his speech to the teachers and parents after they won state, he said that one of the biggest contributors to their success was that not a single player had been lost due to ineligibility. He thanked the teachers for their hard work and dedication and our willingness to fill out grade sheets for the players each week. This perfect eligibility was not ever because we were pressured to inflate grades, and believe me, as a chemistry teacher, if anyone would have been pressured, it was me. Instead, I had sweaty football players running to my classroom at 4:10 pm on Thursdays because their head coach had heard from a coordinator that they had a missing homework assignment or didn't do well on a quiz according to the weekly grade reports that each of them were required to fill out and have signed by teachers. They were required to attend tutorials after school. The coach would call me to ask about specific players and had them running extra laps for any infraction or late work. I was extremely proud of all our student athletes and how they carried themselves in and out of class, and I hope my experiences with future high school sports programs will be as positive as I had at that school.


On topic: I am disgusted by the NUMBER of people who looked the other way! literally, saw molestation and turned around and ... left!! Not just the graduate assistant, but also the janitors and the administration and I'm sure countless other people who saw something that was at the very least not quite right. Wasn't this guy married? How could his wife not notice that her husband's sneaking into the basement at night and keeping an unusual amount of troubled boys at his house?

 

[phoenixgirl]

GP, I'm glad your teaching experience with athletes was so positive. In general mine was. In my academic classes I never had any issues and was happy to sign grade sheets and correspond with coaches. I think it was because I taught an elective for which students earned academic credit (i.e. could bring up their GPAs) that I encountered situations like these. One year I had a star baseball player who had been kicked out of yearbook and had a reputation for enraging teachers, but we got along just fine. Then he got drafted and was kicked out of the AA for steroids, oops! The school also allowed senior football players to retake classes they had passed but done poorly in, like 9th grade English, to boost their GPAs. I don't feel that's fair since that wasn't offered to other students. Surely the boy who wouldn't stop begging me to allow him into the National Honor Society with a 2.2 GPA would have been happy for the opportunity too.

As for the troubled teens and his wife wondering about them, he and his wife actually fostered kids and adopted 6 of their own. Who knows if any allegations will come from those kids. How can you live such a double life? Ugh, it's just so awful.

In the Wharton case, I knew people who knew the perp, and they said that *even after there had been allegations* and an investigation and trial (where he pulled a movie Gotcha! on one of the accusers with a tape recording where it sounded like the kid was making everything up), that people just thought the teens were angling for money. I guess the mind goes to funny places to try to believe that a trusted person can't be doing something so unspeakable. Not defending them, just trying to understand why people don't believe it or act. Failing to protect a child from rape is SO MUCH WORSE than embarrassing an innocent man. You act, even if you don't want to believe it, can't believe it.

GP, did you ever have to report any suspected abuse as a teacher? I'm just thinking about this because while I did (I would speak to and email the assistant principal and guidance counselor), I never made the call to CPS myself. So if they had failed to follow up when there was abuse, would I have been culpable? The first time or two I asked them if there was anything else I was supposed to do, and they always told me no. But again, what if they hadn't done anything, and the abuse continued? Would that have been my fault? Just thinking out loud.

 

[kenny]

I hope this is not true and only a rumor, but . . .

In the link below is a suggestion that Sandusky pimped out young boys from his "Second Mile Foundation" to rich donors.
Second Mile Foundation was created by Sandusky.
On the surface it appeared to be an organization to help disadvantaged kids, but it is becoming clear that his association with the foundation was how he got access to boys to molest, and now perhaps to raise money for the University.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

 

[vintagelover229]

I hope this is not true and only a rumor, but . . .

In the link below is a claim that Sandusky pimped out his young boys from that boys "charity" group for disadvantaged boys that he founded, "Second Mile Foundation".
Per the link, he pimped them out to rich donors who were pedophiles.

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/jerry-sandusky-rumored-to-have-been-pimping-out-young-boys-to-rich-donors-says-mark-madden.html

This wouldn't surprise me at all

There are tons of pedophiles not only holding political offices but other powerful positions of authority all of the USA and the world.

If you haven't checked out the link I posted in the thread earlier check out the Franklin Scandal. A HUGE ring was discovered and when it went to court they said while they believed the testimonies of the victims they didn't believe they were accusing the correct people (meaning they believed they were abused but not by the people they said they were abused by) and that is what was the deciding factor in the case.

http://www.franklinscandal.com/


Because-you know-people in power NEVER abuse their authority and NEVER have any sexual issues and NEVER lie about it (Bill Clinton I did NOT have sexual relations with that women).

3/5 girls will be molested at some point in their life and that number used to be lower for boys-1/5 but how many of these go unreported bc it was someone loved and respected (and possibly even HELPING them as Kenny's link shows).

It's a messed up world we live and and far to many people do what that head coach did. They stick their head in the sand and pretend they didn't see it. And they get away with it for how many years? And that type of sexual trauma often times creates another perp-meaning they do to young boys what happened to them as young boys-creating a cycle.

I for one wish that they would open an investigation country wide. However there are to many people holding office (or positions of power such as police officers/etc) who are sick and have friends who are sick and they all keep their sickness "hidden" and share it together so that way when someone comes forward the people they are accusing are so important that the public doesn't believe the victims. So why would they come out if they know that no one is going to believe them?

 

[nfowife]

The whole thing is just disgusting. I started to read the grand jury report, but couldn't get through the whole thing. SO MANY witnesses who saw little creepy things here and there, and NOT ONE of them spoke up/out. If just one had called in on their suspicions, there would probably have been less victims of this predator.

 

[kenny]

What I find REALLY interesting is this extreme dichotomy about all this.
I mean, what's more macho than football?
Not just the men who play it but the zillions of men who sit in front of a TV and feel REAL passionate emotions when their team wins or loses.

Football being so masculine, aggressive, and the quintessentially male thing, wouldn't you think a leading football coach, of a leading team, at a leading University would NNNNNNNNEEEEEEEVVVVVVVVEEEEEEERRRRRRR get off on molesting boys?
Then again . . . both are about the thrill afforded by conquering and dominating other people.
So maybe the power psychology behind football and molesting kids is not that far apart after all.

I'm not suggesting football is the same as molesting boys or casting an aspersions on those who like football.
One is legal one is not only illegal but is one of the most reprehensible things that can happen.

But it is almost like the Sandusky's shadow coming out in, in the Jungian sense.
Two sides of the same thing, one side celebrated but the other dark and sinister.

 

[Matata]

Then again . . . both are about the thrill afforded by conquering and dominating other people.
So maybe the power psychology behind football and molesting kids is not that far apart after all.

Interesting insight Kenny. Add to that the code of silence that permeates the money making enterprise of a successful college football program and we have results like Penn State. When all is said and done, it's all about the money. I have no doubt that Sandusky's despicable actions were swept under the rug due to fear of losing money.