Here we go again. Protect the institution, not the kids

[allycat0303]

I knew nothiing about this story before today.

I read about the graduate assistant, and I think it's possible he THOUGHT he was doing enough by reporting to the person above him. Perhaps he was naive and thought that the people above him (the coach, the university president) would handle the matter appropriately. I'm sure this was combined with a desire to keep his job/reputation, and the desire to stay uninvolved.

What stuns me is how people can see something like this and walk away. Why didn't the graduate assistant stop or interrupt the scene? I sure as hell wouldn't have let the rape continue/end. It's a child! I don't understand how a man could do that. Would he have walked away if it was a little girl being raped? Is there some sort of double standard because it was a young boy? It's just horrendous to me.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

GP, did you ever have to report any suspected abuse as a teacher? I'm just thinking about this because while I did (I would speak to and email the assistant principal and guidance counselor), I never made the call to CPS myself. So if they had failed to follow up when there was abuse, would I have been culpable? The first time or two I asked them if there was anything else I was supposed to do, and they always told me no. But again, what if they hadn't done anything, and the abuse continued? Would that have been my fault? Just thinking out loud.

Thankfully, I never had any suspicions of child abuse. However, in our training, we were told that it was our legal obligation to fill our reports ourselves because we were the ones witnessing the abuse; reporting to someone else like a principal or nurse did not fulfill our obligation, sort of like my friend can't testify in court about a robbery if I'm the one who saw it and told her about it after.

I'm sure policies vary from state to state, if not district to district.

 

[TristanC]

And now there is open rioting in the streets in support of the coach who took no action.

Wonder what the mob would say if someone walked 30 young boys who were being treated for psychological damage due to abuse quietly past the university steps.

 

[Autumnovember]

And now there is open rioting in the streets in support of the coach who took no action.

Wonder what the mob would say if someone walked 30 young boys who were being treated for psychological damage due to abuse quietly past the university steps.

I've really just about had it with so many Penn State students. I'm friends with VERY, VERY many alumni and their behavior is absolutely ridiculous....

 

[slg47]

And now there is open rioting in the streets in support of the coach who took no action.

Wonder what the mob would say if someone walked 30 young boys who were being treated for psychological damage due to abuse quietly past the university steps.

I've really just about had it with so many Penn State students. I'm friends with VERY, VERY many alumni and their behavior is absolutely ridiculous....

yeah, the response from students is really surprising me...he knew about it, he told someone but nothing was done...so then just let it go? for years??? i'm sorry...no. if you know you need to actually report it. i can't imagine knowing something like that and not reporting it. it is NOT ok.

 

[ksinger]

And for those like me, who like to get as close to the source as possible with these things (I read the Mass Attorney General Report on the Catholic Church scandal, and the entire report on the Dover ID case...nerdy I know), all 23 sordid pages of the grand jury report. It's a tough tough read. And yes, more than McQueary knew about Sandusky. An open secret for sure...

http://www.wltx.com/news/pdf/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

 

[mrswahs]

What disgusts me is that I have several PSU alumni that I am friends with on facebook and they are all talking about how HEARTBROKEN they are that he lost his job.

 

[mrswahs]

Here's a link to an article to "non-Penn Staters" from "Penn Staters"

http://lizp1123.hubpages.com/hub/To-All-Non-Penn-Staters

 

[ksinger]

Here's a link to an article to "non-Penn Staters" from "Penn Staters"

http://lizp1123.hubpages.com/hub/To-All-Non-Penn-Staters

Truly barf-worthy. The rioters were koolaid-drunk lemmings. (my apologies to any actual lemmings who may be reading)

Here is a response that is becoming increasingly prevalent in the views of the riots and Penn State's student body...

PSU protesters blindly ignore real victims
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11315/1189059-153-0.stm
Excerpt:

The only thing more naive than the misplaced chants of support for an 84-year-old football coach is the question indignant viewers asked while watching the riot footage on cable news: What exactly are they teaching those kids at Penn State?

Isn't it obvious? Penn State isn't teaching the kids anything they didn't already learn at home. It isn't the university's job to inculcate kids with values such as empathy for young rape victims. That's a moral blind spot that represents the absence of good parenting, not bad teaching at Penn State.

Those protesters arrived at the school fully formed and with the capacity for uncritical worship of a football coach whose two-syllable nickname invokes the same assumptions of omnipotence as Yahweh.
.
.
.
.

If one tries to imagine other issues that could drive thousands of Penn State students to the street, you would probably come up empty. A decade of war abroad doesn't generate such passions, nor would a threat of tuition hikes.

In Happy Valley, it only takes the outcome of a football game, or the dethroning of the campus' resident god to get those kind of numbers. That's the only incontestable morality the university has cultivated over the four decades of Mr. Paterno's reign.

Lately, I've been thinking about Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Michael Vick. He served nearly two years in prison for running a dog-fighting ring and was only grudgingly allowed back in the NFL. Among the Penn State protesters, there was probably more sympathy for Mr. Vick's dogs than for the children victimized in this case.

ETA - and I liked this one. This guy GETS it. His response was my first reaction too, and it was all about McQeary, not Paterno: Why on EARTH would a fit 28 year-old man NOT pry that monster off that child and knock the crap out of him? Instead, he walked away and called daddy. What a sham.

Boys lost in the company of men
http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/doblin/doblin_111111.html

 

[iheartscience]

Great articles, ksinger.

And for fans of biting satire, an article from The Onion titled "Sports Media Asks Molestation Victims What This Means For Joe Paterno's Legacy" sums it up for me.

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/

 

[coda72]

I hesitate to post, because as a Penn State alumnus I will most likely be burned at the stake. I feel for the children who were raped by a depraved man. But should all students be penalized because they went to a school where that happened? I'm reading stuff online that hiring managers will be throwing resumes in the trash and not considering applicants for jobs if they went to Penn State. I'm reading the university should lose its accreditation all the way up to it should be burned to the ground. Do all of you feel this is appropriate to the circumstances? I may be too close to the situation as an alumnus to see these as appropriate actions.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I saw that "to all the non Penn Staters" on FB, and it just seemed so . . . jingoistic. I admit it; I don't get it. It reminds me of the Cummings' poem "humanity i love you" where he talks about the lemmings "unflinchingly applaud"ing songs containing the words country, home, mother, [or JoePa].

As for the kids rioting, I did see pictures of other Penn State students who were staging a counterprotest for the victims. So it's not all of them, definitely. People are entitled to their feelings, but I think in this situation, staging a violent/crazy protest or posting some "you don't understand because *you're* not Penn State" message is embarrassing and in bad taste. Sometimes what someone else has suffered is so atrocious that you keep your minor, by comparison, feelings of personal loss to yourself.

 

[ksinger]

Great articles, ksinger.

And for fans of biting satire, an article from The Onion titled "Sports Media Asks Molestation Victims What This Means For Joe Paterno's Legacy" sums it up for me.

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/

I think the biting was foremost on this one. I've rarely seen the Onion bitterly scathe to quite that level. But then the whole subject has about zero humor-factor in it.

Makes you wish you could send this piece in a spam mailing to every Penn State student and indignant alum, doesn't it?

You know, I'm from Oklahoma - not exactly a rational place when it comes to football - and I guess this whole thing has bothered me so much because I could see something like that happening here - that blind fandom exists here too. But given the general US obsession with football, I suppose that could be said of plenty of places. Still, while our state football programs have historically been far from squeaky clean, at least Oklahoma hasn't ever gone that low. In fact, good old Barry Switzer has weighed in on Penn State too...

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-10/barry-switzer-on-penn-state-scandal-everyone-on-that-staff-had-to-have-known

 

[iheartscience]

Great articles, ksinger.

And for fans of biting satire, an article from The Onion titled "Sports Media Asks Molestation Victims What This Means For Joe Paterno's Legacy" sums it up for me.

http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sports-media-asks-molestation-victims-what-this-me,26609/

I think the biting was foremost on this one. I've rarely seen the Onion bitterly scathe to quite that level. But then the whole subject has about zero humor-factor in it.

Makes you wish you could send this piece in a spam mailing to every Penn State student and indignant alum, doesn't it?

You know, I'm from Oklahoma - not exactly a rational place when it comes to football - and I guess this whole thing has bothered me so much because I could see something like that happening here - that blind fandom exists here too. But given the general US obsession with football, I suppose that could be said of plenty of places. Still, while our state football programs have historically been far from squeaky clean, at least Oklahoma hasn't ever gone that low. In fact, good old Barry Switzer has weighed in on Penn State too...

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2011-11-10/barry-switzer-on-penn-state-scandal-everyone-on-that-staff-had-to-have-known

I thought the same thing about The Onion article-it wasn't funny at all, just vicious, which is totally appropriate.

My husband thinks the entire football program should be shut down, and I agree. He follows college football and told me that Southern Methodist University had their program shut down for a "scandal" involving giving money to players. That "scandal" pales in comparison to the situation at Penn State.

 

[ksinger]

I hesitate to post, because as a Penn State alumnus I will most likely be burned at the stake. I feel for the children who were raped by a depraved man. But should all students be penalized because they went to a school where that happened? I'm reading stuff online that hiring managers will be throwing resumes in the trash and not considering applicants for jobs if they went to Penn State. I'm reading the university should lose its accreditation all the way up to it should be burned to the ground. Do all of you feel this is appropriate to the circumstances? I may be too close to the situation as an alumnus to see these as appropriate actions.

I don't think any rational person feels that the university should lose accreditation, that's silly and as irrational as the blind hero-worship displayed by certain Penn State students. If the students get shorted on this deal, then they need to look to their compatriots who rioted for the reason people are disgusted at the moment with the Penn State student body. Maybe it isn't fair or appropriate to tar everyone with the same brush, but those riots for a man who did THE barest minimum, are morally abhorrent to those of us outside the heady air of Penn State. What did you think was going to happen when the world viewed something like that? Are you going to defend them?

Do I and others see this as a monstrous case of misplaced priorities? Absolutely. Does the university (the powers behind it) need to get their gonads handed to them? Again, absolutely. This whole issue is and always has been about money, power, and prestige, and money. Did I mention money? As I mentioned upstream, I suspect that the real driving force behind the firings has been to try to do damage control so the money won't stop flowing, and the lawsuits won't start piling up, but good luck to them on that last. There are ethics violations like giving cars and hookers to players, (although you don't want me to start on what I think of the NCAA) and then there is protecting pedophiles. An ENTIRELY different level.

 

[ksinger]

I saw that "to all the non Penn Staters" on FB, and it just seemed so . . . jingoistic. I admit it; I don't get it. It reminds me of the Cummings' poem "humanity i love you" where he talks about the lemmings "unflinchingly applaud"ing songs containing the words country, home, mother, [or JoePa].

As for the kids rioting, I did see pictures of other Penn State students who were staging a counterprotest for the victims. So it's not all of them, definitely. People are entitled to their feelings, but I think in this situation, staging a violent/crazy protest or posting some "you don't understand because *you're* not Penn State" message is embarrassing and in bad taste. Sometimes what someone else has suffered is so atrocious that you keep your minor, by comparison, feelings of personal loss to yourself.

Yeah, we don't understand because unlike certain people defending getting all petulant and belligerent and violent, we understand that FOOTBALL IS A GAME. It is NOT LIFE. It is ENTERTAINMENT. It is not a RIGHT. Watching people riot over something that should be viewed as entertainment, is just revolting. But then it harks back to my objection to the overemphasis on organized spectator sports anyway - it is too liable to make otherwise decent people into a mob. And we've seen it happen in this situation. Mob psychology at its finest...They kinda show how the circle-the-wagon mentality plays out, don't they? Knee-jerk is to defend, when a moment of reflection would probably nix that impulse. Not a lot of soul-searching going on at parts of Penn State, I'm thinking...

 

[asscherisme]

What disgusts me is that I have several PSU alumni that I am friends with on facebook and they are all talking about how HEARTBROKEN they are that he lost his job.

That makes me sick. What about those kids who will forever have to live with the trauma because he looked the other way?? They were innocent victims.

There were SO many opporunities to stop the abuse and yet it coninuted because people looked the other way. Makes it hard for me to respect or support college athletics with that culture of the game is more important than anything else.

 

[kenny]

The mom of the boy now being called "Victim 1" speaks . . .

http://gma.yahoo.com/penn-state-scandal-mother-alleged-victim-says-son-082520374.html

 

[Matata]

Ksinger I admire you -- for your intellect, insight, compassion, and balanced thought.

For 13 years, I worked inside the athletic department of a school with a nationally ranked football program. It is viewed as entertainment (as you suggested earlier) only by people who have a balanced view of life and an outlet for their competitive urges other than watching testosterone enriched young men follow an inflated bag of pig skin around a grassy surface.

It is not viewed as entertainment within the program and from the point of view of the young men who participate. To coaches it's a career predicated only on their ability to win. Football revenues support nonrevenue producing men's sports as well as the women's athletics program. Title IX was the bane of football and men's basketball coaches.

To the athletes, it's a chance at pro-sport stardom. I never met a collegiate football player or basketball player, regardless of the mediocrity of their talent, who didn't think they could make it to the pros. The athlete's identity is so tied to his ability to play that when he is injured and has to quit the sport, his identity is compromised. His "friends" leave, the boosters who kissed his arse abandon him, pro scouts give him the big goodbye, and the women who threw themselves at him move on to greener pastures. It starts in junior high sports programs and devolves from there. It's all so ugly.

 

[phoenixgirl]

The Harrisburg Patriot-News has had some interesting coverage. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/commentary_why_all_the_continu.html

Do they REALLY teach a class on Paterno's life and times at Penn State?

 

[ksinger]

Ksinger I admire you -- for your intellect, insight, compassion, and balanced thought.

For 13 years, I worked inside the athletic department of a school with a nationally ranked football program. It is viewed as entertainment (as you suggested earlier) only by people who have a balanced view of life and an outlet for their competitive urges other than watching testosterone enriched young men follow an inflated bag of pig skin around a grassy surface.

It is not viewed as entertainment within the program and from the point of view of the young men who participate. To coaches it's a career predicated only on their ability to win. Football revenues support nonrevenue producing men's sports as well as the women's athletics program. Title IX was the bane of football and men's basketball coaches.

To the athletes, it's a chance at pro-sport stardom. I never met a collegiate football player or basketball player, regardless of the mediocrity of their talent, who didn't think they could make it to the pros. The athlete's identity is so tied to his ability to play that when he is injured and has to quit the sport, his identity is compromised. His "friends" leave, the boosters who kissed his arse abandon him, pro scouts give him the big goodbye, and the women who threw themselves at him move on to greener pastures. It starts in junior high sports programs and devolves from there. It's all so ugly.

Thanks Matata. The kudos are nice, although I struggle with the balance bit some, I admit.

This issue certainly hits a nerve with me for some reason. I am SO NOT a group person. And I'm not sure why. Maybe I learned it from my mother, maybe I have a fear of commitment. I've just always been wary of groups and the attendant groupthink. It may be one of the reasons I never could really join a church or be a fan. I can't even begin to fathom how a person becomes emotional about a group identification. I guess I'm just not wired to get my identity from a group. Too much surrender of one's critical thinking is required in both instances.

In any case, I'm not against organized sports per se, although from the standpoint of one of those who has never been particularly athletic (not a klutz mind you, just not wired for physical competiton and quickness - my activities were solitary like biking or hiking) organized sports seems to benefit such a very few compared to the overload of hype surrounding them.

My husband is even more damning than I am, if you can believe it. He is a big fan of Teddy Roosevelt on this issue, and like him thinks sports should be a doing, not a viewing. He views ALL spectator sports as a manifestation of a culture that "sits on its collective voyeuristic ass on the sofa, and doesn't DO anything." As a competitve sailor he is currently on a tear about the forces trying to turn sailing into a spectator sport, which he despises, and which he thinks will ruin the sport. I know all that is pretty harsh, but he feels strongly about it. Needless to say, there isn't much sport watching at our house. Honestly, I watch more football (or golf occasionally - which makes him REALLY roll his eyes at me) than he does.

But as you say, I realize it's deadly serious and utterly absorbing for those doing it, and that's OK I guess, until the whole world begins to believe the same thing. And we all see what that level of imbalance has done - imbalance on the inside allowed abuse, and imbalance on the outside created riots.

I also find it fascinating that this situation is almost identical to the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts. All three are not just male-dominated, but exclusively male. It seems like when something is going to go awry with an all-male hierarchy, this is how it invariably plays out. I mean really, isn't this going to be somebody's thesis just any day now?

 

[nkarma]

http://www.freep.com/assets/freep/pdf/C4181508116.PDF

I read the grand jury report linked above. It is seriously disturbing to say the least. Besides the horrific acts described in there, the most disturbing behavior was that of Tim Curley and Gary Schultz who Paterno and the grad assistant went to report the abuse. They told the grad student they had it handled (which may be part of the reason he never reported it further). These two men are as responsible for any rape/sexual assault that occurred between 2002 and 2009 as Sandusky himself. I have NO IDEA how they sleep at night or can look themselves in the mirror. I know there are a lot of lawyers on here, so do you know if they can be charged for anything besides perjury? They must have seen Sandusky so many times with young boys after the rape was reported and SAID NOTHING! My stomach just turns. I honestly hope they can be charged as accomplices and get raped everyday in prison.

There was also a temp janitor who saw Sandusky giving oral sex to a little boy and was very deeply disturbed by it, but he never reported he it. According to the other several janitors he told who were working that night, it was the worst thing he had ever seen even compared to people dying while fighting in the Korean War. He has dementia now, so we will never know why he and the other janitors didn't report it. I think like the grad student, they all felt they are powerless compared to the college football machine.

And yes on larger picture of society, old rich powerful white men again raped (either themselves or by doing nothing) young boys who were part of a charity for underpriveleged youth. They will barely get punished for doing so of course, while there are people in jail for much less.

 

[phoenixgirl]

Wowza, they really do: http://deadspin.com/5858278/joe-posnanski-becomes-an-unlikely-paterno-apologist

 

[ksinger]

Wowza, they really do: http://deadspin.com/5858278/joe-posnanski-becomes-an-unlikely-paterno-apologist

And here I thought Oklahoma the center of football hysteria. I stand corrected. We are amateurs compared to that.

You know, as Penn fans cry that the rest of the world just doesn't understand, I'm reminded of reading about Phil Zimbardo and the Stanford Prison Experiments. He related the tale of the descent into abuse of the subjects, but more importantly, the desensitization of the researchers themselves as the watched it happening over a period of several days. He tells how his then fiance came in and saw the situation with outsider eyes and was utterly horrified. She confronted him forcefully and basically jerked him back to reality and he stopped the study.

Maybe this situation, combined with the horrified reactions of the entire nation, will jerk Penn State and her befuddled fans back to reality. But as one of the commentaries linked above noted, "Unfortunately, early indications of an “ah-ha” moment are not encouraging."

 

[Tuckins1]

And for those like me, who like to get as close to the source as possible with these things (I read the Mass Attorney General Report on the Catholic Church scandal, and the entire report on the Dover ID case...nerdy I know), all 23 sordid pages of the grand jury report. It's a tough tough read. And yes, more than McQueary knew about Sandusky. An open secret for sure...

http://www.wltx.com/news/pdf/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

I just read this whole thing. Everybody who was on staff at that time, who heard things or knew directly about this and did NOT notify the police immediately should be fired. Forget about your job, what about the lives of all of those kids?!? They are scarred for life because of some sicko, and plenty of people knew about his "weirdness" and did nothing about it!!! I'm a teacher and I can't even fathom knowing that a co-worker, who has access to unlimited children, was doing things like this and no one would stop them! Un-freaking believable!!!

 

[packrat]

I was up late last night b/c I didn't feel good and was listening to whatever sports channel the husband was watching..I heard the commentator say something like "All the people who are mourning the ending of a long and great career" or something along those lines, and if I hadn't already been massively nauseated that would've done it for sure. The people who knew about this and did nothing, I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. Those were *children* and the sick **** who did/do that need to have consequences, including the ones who knew about it and did nothing.

 

[mrswahs]

And for those like me, who like to get as close to the source as possible with these things (I read the Mass Attorney General Report on the Catholic Church scandal, and the entire report on the Dover ID case...nerdy I know), all 23 sordid pages of the grand jury report. It's a tough tough read. And yes, more than McQueary knew about Sandusky. An open secret for sure...

http://www.wltx.com/news/pdf/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

I just read this whole thing. Everybody who was on staff at that time, who heard things or knew directly about this and did NOT notify the police immediately should be fired. Forget about your job, what about the lives of all of those kids?!? They are scarred for life because of some sicko, and plenty of people knew about his "weirdness" and did nothing about it!!! I'm a teacher and I can't even fathom knowing that a co-worker, who has access to unlimited children, was doing things like this and no one would stop them! Un-freaking believable!!!

No, they should GO TO JAIL.

 

[sonnyjane]

Forget about your job, what about the lives of all of those kids?!? They are scarred for life because of some sicko, and plenty of people knew about his "weirdness" and did nothing about it!!! I'm a teacher and I can't even fathom knowing that a co-worker, who has access to unlimited children, was doing things like this and no one would stop them! Un-freaking believable!!!

I read the full report today as well and while there was a witness that did tell his supervisor (but not the authorities), there were other witnesses to different acts that chose not to do anything at all because they feared they would lose their jobs. It's crazy. My mom is a kindergarten teacher and they are so sensitive about sexual misconduct in the classroom that my mom was actually called to a meeting with the principal because another teacher had seen my mom hugging a female student to thank her for a Christmas card and the principal wanted to warn my mom that hugs can be misconstrued as inappropriate. Another teacher reported my mom for hugging a kindergartner, yet MULTIPLE people saw this man in the midst of criminal acts against minors and didn't report it to ANYONE!

 

[iheartscience]

Wowza, they really do: http://deadspin.com/5858278/joe-posnanski-becomes-an-unlikely-paterno-apologist

And here I thought Oklahoma the center of football hysteria. I stand corrected. We are amateurs compared to that.

You know, as Penn fans cry that the rest of the world just doesn't understand, I'm reminded of reading about Phil Zimbardo and the Stanford Prison Experiments. He related the tale of the descent into abuse of the subjects, but more importantly, the desensitization of the researchers themselves as the watched it happening over a period of several days. He tells how his then fiance came in and saw the situation with outsider eyes and was utterly horrified. She confronted him forcefully and basically jerked him back to reality and he stopped the study.

Maybe this situation, combined with the horrified reactions of the entire nation, will jerk Penn State and her befuddled fans back to reality. But as one of the commentaries linked above noted, "Unfortunately, early indications of an “ah-ha” moment are not encouraging."

Me too! Also the Milgram experiments. Many people are just unable to stand up to/disobey authority figures. It's scary, really.

 

[Kaleigh]

I am sick about this, as it hits close to home. I am praying for comfort and strength to those that suffered this abuse.