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Here SHE is! 35/40.8 Keep? Return?

daisygrl

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She came today! She is 35/40.8 and I was wondering what you, guys, think compared to a well cut 34.5/40.8. Is it better/worse? Any feedback is much appreciated! I also have a video of her but unsure how to attach that one. ! IMG_9530.jpg
 

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lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I really like it!
 

OoohShiny

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Looks awesome :)

I doubt anyone but the most experienced trade professionals would be able to tell the difference in real life between a 34.5 degree crown angle and a 35 degree crown angle, everything else being equal ;-)
 

daisygrl

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Looks awesome :)

I doubt anyone but the most experienced trade professionals would be able to tell the difference in real life between a 34.5 degree crown angle and a 35 degree crown angle, everything else being equal ;-)

Good point! I was concern about lack of "sparkle" and light leakage due to the angle mismatch. Wish I could post the video.
 

OoohShiny

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I would not call it an angle mismatch - the combination is still within ranges that PS generally takes as being acceptable, as shown by the HCA score being under 2 (IIRC?).

(We will put to one side the discussion around the HCA 'cut off' being 2 or a bit more than that ;-) and whether the HCA is correct in preferring shallower stones over deeper stones - ref. discussion in another thread: https://www.pricescope.com/communit...verse-crown-and-pavilion-relationship.254253/ )

Don't get too hung up on the minutiae - PS has meant you've got a stone better than probably 99% of the stones out there :)
 
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headlight

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This is of interest to me because my stone is also 35/40.8 and I know there has been much discussion here on PS about this not being a good combination, even though it is listed as such on many "charts". I'm just so unclear about the numbers being "exact". Some people say a little bit "off" isn't going to be discernible in real life daily wear. Others say that if you are even a few percent it is like life and death for the stone. And then there is the issue of GIA and their rounding such that some feel any of the data they provide on a report isn't even accurate which, under that scenario, if even the slightest most minute deviation off the "ideal" equates to disaster for the stone we cannot assess any stone via a GIA report... we must go off of images. Which also could bring into question, if the data from GIA reports is not precise due to rounding, then we really aren't even entering accurate data into the HCA which means we may be getting HCA scores that are not truly representative of the stone in question. Also, on an ASET if there is a little area with leakage, the stone is always rejected. I would love to be able to have a side-by-side comparison of a stone with a small "hole" of leakage versus one with no leakage and see how they are IRL. Similarly, there is another thread going on that mentions a "watery" appearance. An example was shown of something that was so small I couldn't even notice that anything looked wrong. I have seen images where a stone definitely has a watery area but it was pervasive over a good portion of the center of the stone. In the example provided yesterday, it was like a tiny little area... is this really going to make a difference in how that stone looks once we stop looking at it blown up on our computer screen??? This is really daunting and I feel sometimes like I'm drowning in the understanding of it all. And I have earned GIA Diamonds Graduate, and still don't understand! Of course, how would I have learned it?... none of the nuances discussed and debated here on PS are mentioned or covered in the GIA education. So there's like the "theory" (GIA education), and then there's the actual "nitty gritty" of it all being presented here on PS which is a totally different education.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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It looks great! Not a thing wrong with those angles especially if one is able to get an ASET to show if the light return is good. It looks fine in your picture. I have had a stone with those measurements before. It's still within the acceptable/desirable range!
 

headlight

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@diamondseeker2006 would you say that the ASET has to be perfect? What if an ASET cannot be obtained? Is viewing the stone itself good enough?... I see you have commented that the stone looks fine in OP's photo... so is that enough? While as much data as we can collect is, of course, most advantageous, what if one only has the actual stone to view? Is that enough? Does that play into the GIA position that one needs to go by what they see (and how they feel about it), versus all the technical data? Thank you for you input!
 

daisygrl

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@diamondseeker2006 would you say that the ASET has to be perfect? What if an ASET cannot be obtained? Is viewing the stone itself good enough?... I see you have commented that the stone looks fine in OP's photo... so is that enough? While as much data as we can collect is, of course, most advantageous, what if one only has the actual stone to view? Is that enough? Does that play into the GIA position that one needs to go by what they see (and how they feel about it), versus all the technical data? Thank you for you input!

These are good questions! I was not able to obtain ASET but I do have an Ideal Scope image. However, I have received mixed reviews where some said that it is a good image with a strong light return, the others said that it has a light leakage. I just could not see where exactly. That was the main reason I considered WF over JA and still do (this diamond is from JA). There has been a lot of critique over 35/40.8 angles on PS, thus the doubts. Screen Shot 2020-01-09 at 11.18.26 AM.png
 

flyingpig

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35/40.8 can be a trainwreck because the actual average angle can be closer to 40.9 which means that some angles can be as high as 41.1. Combine that with high crown angle or 35 (which is also rounded) and potentially twisted pavilion, you have leakage.
But in OP case, this is not a concern. It is well cut.
How do you assess 35/40.8 without the ASET?
A well taken magnified photo or video is enough. In person, you can build a ASET for yourself or cup your fingers or hands to use it as idealscope. It works well.
 

headlight

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35/40.8 can be a trainwreck because the actual average angle can be closer to 40.9 which means that some angles can be as high as 41.1. Combine that with high crown angle or 35 (which is also rounded) and potentially twisted pavilion, you have leakage.
But in OP case, this is not a concern. It is well cut.
How do you assess 35/40.8 without the ASET?
A well taken magnified photo or video is enough. In person, you can build a ASET for yourself or cup your fingers or hands to use it as idealscope. It works well.

Just going on a magnified photo or video, what, exactly, should one be looking for (same question for the cupped hands version of an Idealscope)? THANK YOU!
 

gm89uk

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Looks like a great stone, it helps we can't see your fingers through the table of the diamond (which would be leakage, if the photo was head on)
 

diamondsR4eVR

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Your stone is beautiful and very close to my numbers as well. Sometimes you have to step back from info overload, data and decide for yourself, is this my stone? Do I love it enough to wear it proudly every day because you will look down at it very often and hopefully it’s to admire the stone’s beauty.
 

Mlh

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I will be getting my 35/40.8 tomorrow. Unfortunately the images I posted were hard to read. But it was very nice to get the angles approved by @Serg !!! We shall see!
 

daisygrl

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Your stone is beautiful and very close to my numbers as well. Sometimes you have to step back from info overload, data and decide for yourself, is this my stone? Do I love it enough to wear it proudly every day because you will look down at it very often and hopefully it’s to admire the stone’s beauty.

I like your reply as have been asking myself the same question... is this the 'one' I will want to have forever? Perhaps, that is why I am making such a fuss over her. It would be much easier to get her from WF with all the documents (ASET, H&A...etc) but they do not seem to have much of a selection for the most part. I do like how I can see all 8 arrow patterns just by looking down at her. :lol:
 

daisygrl

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35/40.8 can be a trainwreck because the actual average angle can be closer to 40.9 which means that some angles can be as high as 41.1. Combine that with high crown angle or 35 (which is also rounded) and potentially twisted pavilion, you have leakage.
But in OP case, this is not a concern. It is well cut.
How do you assess 35/40.8 without the ASET?
A well taken magnified photo or video is enough. In person, you can build a ASET for yourself or cup your fingers or hands to use it as idealscope. It works well.

Would not this "averaging of angles" apply to 34.5/40.8 angels as well to the point that they might be considered a "trainwreck"? Or is there a less of a chance of that happening?
 

flyingpig

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Would not this "averaging of angles" apply to 34.5/40.8 angels as well to the point that they might be considered a "trainwreck"? Or is there a less of a chance of that happening?

It is because of 34.5 CA which can handle slightly steeper PA. There are 34.5/40.8 that are trainwreck as well. There are 35.5/40.8 that are stunning but the odds are lower. It is just probability. If leakage is your main concern, choose a shallow combo such as 34/40.6, but now your start to concern about potential obstruction issue.
 

daisygrl

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It is because of 34.5 CA which can handle slightly steeper PA. There are 34.5/40.8 that are trainwreck as well. There are 35.5/40.8 that are stunning but the odds are lower. It is just probability. If leakage is your main concern, choose a shallow combo such as 34/40.6, but now your start to concern about potential obstruction issue.

Got it! Would you say, based on the IS image I have posted, that this particular diamond has a light leakage?
 

flyingpig

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Got it! Would you say, based on the IS image I have posted, that this particular diamond has a light leakage?
No leakage at all. No worry in this regard.
Since you really want to assess your diamond and want it to be perfect, the diamond has dug out girdle.
 

daisygrl

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No leakage at all. No worry in this regard.
Since you really want to assess your diamond and want it to be perfect, the diamond has dug out girdle.

I thought you could only dig out pavilions and crowns. :shock:
 

Mlh

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It is because of 34.5 CA which can handle slightly steeper PA. There are 34.5/40.8 that are trainwreck as well. There are 35.5/40.8 that are stunning but the odds are lower. It is just probability. If leakage is your main concern, choose a shallow combo such as 34/40.6, but now your start to concern about potential obstruction issue.

My 1st diamond was 34/40.6
I was told this is more shallow than PS recommends. Now I have a 35/40.8 coming and I am worried it is too deep. :(
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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@diamondseeker2006 would you say that the ASET has to be perfect? What if an ASET cannot be obtained? Is viewing the stone itself good enough?... I see you have commented that the stone looks fine in OP's photo... so is that enough? While as much data as we can collect is, of course, most advantageous, what if one only has the actual stone to view? Is that enough? Does that play into the GIA position that one needs to go by what they see (and how they feel about it), versus all the technical data? Thank you for you input!

I personally would feel totally fine if I found a stone within the range we normally recommend and can see at least a photo of it before ordering. I might order a 34.5/40.8 without a photo, but it still would make me uneasy buying anything I can't at least see a picture of. A magnified face of the stone photo is very helpful, but it is never enough for stones outside the recommended range. Those absolutely have to have an ASET or Idealscope image. Then, if I have either perfect numbers or other combos that result in a 1-low 2 range HCA score, I'd order and see the stone in person. I am not sure I'd even know what to look for if I hadn't already had superideals to compare them to, though. The average person going into a jewelry store with no prior diamond experience is usually going to think very good looks just fine!

So regarding the stone the OP posted, I knew the numbers were good and the stone looks good to me. Now that she has posted the idealscope image,I think it is a very beautiful stone and in the top tier of GIA Excellent for sure!
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
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I personally would feel totally fine if I found a stone within the range we normally recommend and can see at least a photo of it before ordering. I might order a 34.5/40.8 without a photo, but it still would make me uneasy buying anything I can't at least see a picture of. A magnified face of the stone photo is very helpful, but it is never enough for stones outside the recommended range. Those absolutely have to have an ASET or Idealscope image. Then, if I have either perfect numbers or other combos that result in a 1-low 2 range HCA score, I'd order and see the stone in person. I am not sure I'd even know what to look for if I hadn't already had superideals to compare them to, though. The average person going into a jewelry store with no prior diamond experience is usually going to think very good looks just fine!

So regarding the stone the OP posted, I knew the numbers were good and the stone looks good to me. Now that she has posted the idealscope image,I think it is a very beautiful stone and in the top tier of GIA Excellent for sure!

Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated. :)
I do feel for the average people going to a jewelry store with no clue what to look for in a diamond... because in those stores everything sparkles and is misleading! My husband is one of them... show him Swarovski and he will like it because it sparkles. :roll:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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These are good questions! I was not able to obtain ASET but I do have an Ideal Scope image. However, I have received mixed reviews where some said that it is a good image with a strong light return, the others said that it has a light leakage. I just could not see where exactly. That was the main reason I considered WF over JA and still do (this diamond is from JA). There has been a lot of critique over 35/40.8 angles on PS, thus the doubts. Screen Shot 2020-01-09 at 11.18.26 AM.png

This is a great idealscope image! I wish people wouldn't comment on images when they don't know what they are talking about! It's better than the IS on the stone I had with similar proportions, and mine was totally fine, too. I think you chose very well! If this is a forever stone, I think it's fine. The reason to switch to a vendor like WF would be if there was a thought of every upgrading. However, if you could keep this stone for a pendant and get another diamond in the future, I'd certainly vote for that!
 

daisygrl

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This is a great idealscope image! I wish people wouldn't comment on images when they don't know what they are talking about! It's better than the IS on the stone I had with similar proportions, and mine was totally fine, too. I think you chose very well! If this is a forever stone, I think it's fine. The reason to switch to a vendor like WF would be if there was a thought of every upgrading. However, if you could keep this stone for a pendant and get another diamond in the future, I'd certainly vote for that!

The main reason I wanted to go with WF is because I would feel worry-free as far as cut precision and light performance... however, I did notice that a lot of their ACA are, surprisingly, 35/40.8. Will I ever want to upgrade? I mean... one can always go bigger... :lol:
 

flyingpig

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This is a great idealscope image! I wish people wouldn't comment on images when they don't know what they are talking about! It's better than the IS on the stone I had with similar proportions, and mine was totally fine, too. I think you chose very well! If this is a forever stone, I think it's fine. The reason to switch to a vendor like WF would be if there was a thought of every upgrading. However, if you could keep this stone for a pendant and get another diamond in the future, I'd certainly vote for that!

I would not necessarily blame members here for mis-interpreting IS/ASET images. I was one of them.
I rather blame ALL vendors (with the exception of WF and BG) for mis-aligning IS/ASET, using overly bright backlight, holding diamonds tilted and even providing images that do not match. It is a mess.
 

headlight

Ideal_Rock
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I personally would feel totally fine if I found a stone within the range we normally recommend and can see at least a photo of it before ordering. I might order a 34.5/40.8 without a photo, but it still would make me uneasy buying anything I can't at least see a picture of. A magnified face of the stone photo is very helpful, but it is never enough for stones outside the recommended range. Those absolutely have to have an ASET or Idealscope image. Then, if I have either perfect numbers or other combos that result in a 1-low 2 range HCA score, I'd order and see the stone in person. I am not sure I'd even know what to look for if I hadn't already had superideals to compare them to, though. The average person going into a jewelry store with no prior diamond experience is usually going to think very good looks just fine!

So regarding the stone the OP posted, I knew the numbers were good and the stone looks good to me. Now that she has posted the idealscope image,I think it is a very beautiful stone and in the top tier of GIA Excellent for sure!
So then this IS a good Idealscope image? If something looks like that image it is good?
 
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