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youngman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
10
Hello All!

After weeks of research I have begun the search for "the rock"

Round cut, 1.4-1.5 Carats. All certified and within my budget (Under $7800 for Diamond)

I have found a few and would love some input.

1. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7313372-1.51-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VVS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=7313372&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

1.51ct - VVS2 - I - Cut: Very Good - Polish: Excellent - Symmetry: Excellent - $7,524
7.25x7.28x4.60
GIA - 2161300882


2. https://www.solomonbrothers.com/diamonddetail/886Y544Y/shop?affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope

1.53ct - VS2 - I - Cut: Good - Polish: Good - Symmetry: Good - $7294
7.25 - 7.36 x 4.58 mm
GIA -5172338310


3. https://www.solomonbrothers.com/diamonddetail/77Y48996/shop?affiliate=9318613A-AD0C-4530-A456-0409DFEFB8DE&utm_source=PriceScope

1.45ct - VS1 - I - Cut: Good - Polish:Good - Symmetry: Good - $7151
7.07-7.23 x 4.49 mm
GIA - 11623331080


4. http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5131445-1.55-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=5131445&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

1.55ct - VS2 - Cut: Good - Polish: Very Good - Symmetry: Very Good - $7541
7.35x7.37 x 4.67
GIA - 1156323434

5. http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.41-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-very-good-cut-sku-800160

1.41ct - VVS2 - Cut: Very Good - Polish: Very Good - Symmetry: Very Good - A little over budget at $7960
7.33*7.43*4.28
GIA - 6192277192
 

centrifuge41

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
25
Hi youngman,

You may want to run the stones through HCA, and find the stone that score <=2.0.

Stone 1: 3.7. Not great. It is too deep, at 63.3%. The crown angle of 36 degrees is steep.

Stone 2: HCA 5.2. The crown angle and the pavilion angle are both far too steep. It's exceedingly rare to find a good stone whose pavilion angle is greater than 41.0. (shallower crown pairs well with deeper pavilion, and vice versa).

Stone 3: HCA 3.4. 38 degrees is far too steep of a pavilion angle.

Stone 4: this stone's certificate wasn't loaded to B2C. I had to take the number and bring it to gia.edu. HCA is 5.3. Not good at all. 63.4 is too deep, and both the crown and pavilion are too steep.

Stone 5: this is a really odd stone. Shallow, with a huge table, super shallow crown, and super deep pavilion. It's in the "fish eye zone". It does have a large diameter for the weight, so ignore some of the general comments below:

In summary, none of the stones are well-cut, and cut is the single most important attribute that makes a stone really shine! It will be very hard for you to find a well-cut stone with a grade of "Very Good" or lower. Even with stones rated "Excellent" for cut, some are sub-par, and some are great. The "Excellent" range is too wide, allowing 80th percentile stones to get the same paper grade as a 99th percentile stone. Some of these stones aren't very round either: their length and width differ by more than ~0.03mm.

Remember, when you buy a steep/deep stone, you are also getting more weight in the underside of the stone, and less weight towards the diameter. These stones "face up" small for their weight. If you get a well-cut stone, it will really reflect light well, and also look bigger for a given carat weight!

Can you go for a smaller size but a better cut stone? It might face up just as large as some of these, but sparkle way more. If you want to keep the budget in check, I recommend dropping clarity down to VS2/SI1 (or maybe even SI2 if you have the patience to sort through to find the rare eye clean SI2). With these grades, some stones are eye clean, and others aren't. But if you buy from a vendor with pictures, you can figure that out, save some money, and have no detrimental visual effect. Paying for VVS2 or VS1 won't yield a better appearance than an eye-clean SI1.
 

youngman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
10
I am open to a drop in size if that is what is needed and open to all suggestions at this point.

Eye clean is also fine with me
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Please read the below. Study it, and apply it to finding yourself some different stones for us to help you evaluate. Okay?

Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-36. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants, have your vendor check the diamond for this. VS1 will always be eyeclean, but they do cost more and an eyeclean SI1 and a VS1 will look the same to the unaided eye.
 

youngman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
10
Thank you everyone for the education, I have learned a lot just in the past 24 hours.

I am now thinking I should scaled back the size to 1.2-1.3 or so, and focus on cut quality, color and clarity.

If anyone has any suggestions I am open of course!
 

youngman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
10
Found 2 options: One is from WF "A cut above, hearts and arrows" and one from Brian Gavin "Signature" Hearts and Arrows

I did both in the holloway cut advisor, hoping I did them correctly

1. WF - 1.213 Ct SI1 - $7271 - According to my calculation on the Holloway Cut Advisor a 0.7

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3586264.htm#divReviews


2.Brian Gavin - 1.218ct J VS2 - $7134 -According to my calculations on the Holloway Cut Advisor a 1.4

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.218-j-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104084407004#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/0/
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Get the I.

What setting are you getting?
 

youngman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
10
Thank you. That's the stone I was leaning towards.


I emailed them to inquire about a custom setting, 4 prong, very basic thin setting
 

Andelain

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
3,525
youngman|1454945504|3988369 said:
Thank you. That's the stone I was leaning towards.


I emailed them to inquire about a custom setting, 4 prong, very basic thin setting
I agree with Gypsy, that I will knock your socks off. Do yourself a favor, call them or get on chat and reserve the stone. That doesn't cost anything, and it'll keep a poachers from snagging your stone.
 

victorian10

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Messages
36
I would make sure that diamond is eye clean. I'm not sure what I'm seeing in that video but it looks like a big black carbon spot under the table. I would ask about that. I have an S12 that is eye clean.... not all inclusions are black.
 

marymm

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
4,096
victorian10|1455034395|3988823 said:
I would make sure that diamond is eye clean. I'm not sure what I'm seeing in that video but it looks like a big black carbon spot under the table. I would ask about that. I have an S12 that is eye clean.... not all inclusions are black.
Agreed. I see the listing does have the "EyeClean" icon but I see a darkish crystal on the face of the stone which is visible during the whole video rotation, and another darkish crystal in the very center down towards the bottom of the stone which is visible only during certain angles during the rotation.

Obviously the diamond is super magnified in the video; however, "The Whiteflash baseline definition of eye-clean is:
No inclusions visible to the naked eye of a person with 20/20 vision when viewing the diamond in the face-up position at a distance of approximately 10 inches under normal overhead lighting
." From the WF FAQ page (http://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/).

While WF's eye-clean definition is that nothing is visible to someone with 20/20 vision from 10" away from the top only, many people routinely look at their diamonds from a closer distance and, particularly if you're going with a solitaire setting, the sides will also be visible.

If you are enamored with this stone, I would recommend you buy it and have it shipped to you loose for your own inspection prior to setting it. You could also ask your WF representative to have it examined using your own definition of eye-clean (mine is eye-clean from 6" away top and sides).
 

youngman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
10
I inquired and received this reply


" So I’ve gone and taken a look at your diamond. It’s really beautiful stone! I was able to see the black crystal inclusion from 6 inches without magnification but wasn’t able to view it from 10 inches. The crystal in the table is black and there is a white crystal located in the crown facets nearer to the girdle of the stone. These inclusions in no way affect the overall beauty and performance of the diamond and I do know it would be one I’d personally own in a heartbeat. I snapped a quick photo on my hand and got as close as I could. The images already provided online give you a great magnified view of the inclusion "


They are super helpful at whitefish, but should I still be worried?

 

youngman

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
10
UPDATE:

I have decided to go ahead and send a wire for the diamond which will allow me to fully inspect it personally. I will post pictures.
 
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