Help with this sapphire

[ozam]

Hi....

Was looking for a little help with a GIA cert unheated/natural sapphire. While the sapphire is not inexpensive ($1,650 per carat), it is not excessively high for an unheated high quality gem. My concern is a slight "imperfection" on the gridle/facet the should be covered up by the prong on my setting.

Here is what the gem dealer said regarding the issue: It is a common practice in unheated stones to keep certain portions of the stone unpolished i.e. in the rough form in order to conserve weight. These natural dents / unpolished portions are intentionally kept in such a way that they do not hamper the beauty of the stone while at the same time help in conserving weight. This stone has two such small areas kept unpolished. I have arranged three pictures so that you can see them clearly. There is one in the edge of the crown faceting (which should hide completely when the stone is set in your mounting) visible in picture 1 & 2. And there is another one in the pavilion faceting which is not visible from face-up (can be seen in picture 3). Most of the dent is in the girdle and the pavilion. In the crown (face-up) it is very very minute.

I'm just trying to get a knowledgeable opinion on whether what the dealer says makes sense, does the "dent" dramatically impact value, and are the issues so small that you will not even see them.

Thanks for any thoughts from those in the know.....


Carat Weight: 5.02 Carats;
Measurements: 9.02 x 8.57 x 7.15 mm;
Color: Royal Blue;
Clarity: Transparent (SI1), Eye-Clean

 

[Treenbean]

What the dealer said about "naturals" and "natural indented" is right. My diamond has a very very very tiny natural on a meet point on one of the facets. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, as long as you can cover the natural with the design idea you have in mind and as long as it doesn't compromise the integrity of the gem (which it looks like it doesn't). The natural looks small on the pavilion as well. The sapphire is a great size, has a cert from a reputable lab, and is a gorgeous color. Perhaps the naturals will give you a little room to negotiate the price. If not it's pretty darn good for an unheated stone. I'll take it if you don't want it.

 

[minousbijoux]

Hi Ozam - glad to see we didn't scare you away after your questions last time.

So two comments. Okay, maybe more First, if those photos have not been too photoshopped, that stone looks to have a gorgeous color. I'm sure you've already taken precautions if its an ebay vendor by taking a look at toolhaus.org. You might also want to take a look at the color on the GIA cert as that should help you out as well.

That said, two things I might be concerned about. One is that it looks like the cutting might be a little skewed with the pavilion off center. I don't know how noticeable this would be. I also notice a color void in a wedge shape in the first photo on the bottom side, from about 5:00 to 7:00. I guess you'd call it color zoning. Depending upon how noticeable it is, a lack of color would bother me, and may account for the good price. However, you will only know once its in hand, so I hope the return policy is good and you can see it in person.

 

[slksapphire]

ozam,

i am a newbie myself and can't specifically answer your questions about the "dents" but i just wanted to chime in and let you know that unless your budget is unlimited, it's almost always going to be something ... you just need to figure out what your priorities are and what YOU can/can't live with. the thing is, this "list" differs for everyone so it really comes down to personal preference.

for me, i decided that color was key (love the gorgeous color in your photo), i couldn't live with a window, and i wanted a very nice cut. what do i have to live with? a visible inclusion. it's pretty faint and you can only see it if you tilt the stone a certain way. but when you do, it is VERY obvious. i would have accepted some color zoning if it wasn't visible face up.

good luck with your search ...

 

[T L]

Hi Ozam - glad to see we didn't scare you away after your questions last time.

So two comments. Okay, maybe more First, if those photos have not been too photoshopped, that stone looks to have a gorgeous color. I'm sure you've already taken precautions if its an ebay vendor by taking a look at toolhaus.org. You might also want to take a look at the color on the GIA cert as that should help you out as well.

That said, two things I might be concerned about. One is that it looks like the cutting might be a little skewed with the pavilion off center. I don't know how noticeable this would be. I also notice a color void in a wedge shape in the first photo on the bottom side, from about 5:00 to 7:00. I guess you'd call it color zoning. Depending upon how noticeable it is, a lack of color would bother me, and may account for the good price. However, you will only know once its in hand, so I hope the return policy is good and you can see it in person.

They look seriously photoshopped.

Always ask about the saturation and color shift in various lighting as well. It could go darker in person, or in certain lighting too.

 

[chrono]

What the vendor said about leaving the naturals in to conserve weight is true, as a recut will reduce the carat weight down to the 4 carat mark, thereby losing quite a bit of material plus that 5 carat weight price jump. It should not affect the structural integrity of the stone but personally, I would shy away from it just to ease my mind about any possible future damage unless the price is reduced from what he is asking for.

Has there been any mention of colour shifting when indoors? How long is the inspection period and how is the return policy?

 

[Pandora II]

I've got stones with tiny indented naturals on the girdle and pavillion. The idea of cutting away more material to remove them and in the process perhaps damaging the colour is not a risk I would want to take.

Doesn't put me off them at all as long as they are not obvious face-up and if they are that they can be covered by a prong.

You will generally find that the price has been adjusted to account for this.

 

[ozam]

Thanks for all the comments. It is an interesting dilemma. I can get a larger stone for less money but the reality (from a value perspective) is that I am getting a smaller stone (if it HAD to be recut) that probably would be worth more per carat. I guess if the value were to increase 20% I am no worse off. As they say, there is no such thing as a free lunch!

Does anyone have any thoughts relative to the depth of the ring relative to the length/width and the fact that it is graded S1. Is this necessarily an issue with a colored gemstone. My only "expertise" is in diamonds where neither color nor inclusions are good.

 

[chrono]

There is no question that the stone is VERY deep but there is no single perfect cut in the coloured gemstone world. Colour is king and the depth could well be due to preservation of weight and also to amp up the richness of colour. The downside is that the stone looks smaller than it should for a 5 carat stone. Eye clean is all that is required and accepted for gemstones. It does not have to be loupe clean.

 

[T L]

There is no question that the stone is VERY deep but there is no single perfect cut in the coloured gemstone world. Colour is king and the depth could well be due to preservation of weight and also to amp up the richness of colour. The downside is that the stone looks smaller than it should for a 5 carat stone. Eye clean is all that is required and accepted for gemstones. It does not have to be loupe clean.

Cushions are also the one shape that faces up smaller than others, so add the depth to that, and the shape, and it's probably a very small face up for the size. It has a pretty flat crown too, relative to its depth, which I'm personally not a fan of, but as Chrono said, color is king in the colored gem world. I personally rather have a higher crown with a less deep stone. This helps with brillance and dispersion.

 

[ozam]

geez.....colored gemstones really are not for the faint of heart!

Any recommendations to whom I might be able to send this stone for any independent assessment? (quality and value). I know that the color will ultimately have to be my choice and no one can help on that!

Also, I've looked at several very nice sapphires (more colored toward royal than cornflower). Is it normal for the the stone to "black out" in sections when observing from different angles?

 

[T L]

geez.....colored gemstones really are not for the faint of heart!

Any recommendations to whom I might be able to send this stone for any independent assessment? (quality and value). I know that the color will ultimately have to be my choice and no one can help on that!

Also, I've looked at several very nice sapphires (more colored toward royal than cornflower). Is it normal for the the stone to "black out" in sections when observing from different angles?

I'm not sure what royal and cornflower blue mean as they are very subjective in the gem world. I would concentrate on hue, saturation, and tone to base my decisions. I personally like sapphires of strong to vivid saturation in violetish blue hue, and medium light to medium tone. Some people prefer medium dark tone, but I think they can be a bit extinct in certain lighting and angles. I don't think it's normal for a fine sapphire to black out in viewing at certain angles. There are facet shadows, but that's not the same thing as extinction. I have a medium light toned sapphire that doesn't "black out" in any lighting or under any viewing angle.

 

[chrono]

The people I usually recommend for appraisal are no longer independent or in the business, so I'm sorry to be of no help there.

Like TL, I am unused to the subjective terms like royal and cornflower blue and tend towards the GIA colour description based on hue (blue, violetish blue, etc), tone (light, medium, dark) and saturation (light, medium, strong, etc).

Depending on the cut, the stone could very well black out when moved around. If there are only small section, that could be the scintillation or colour contrast where one facet lights up, then darkens when moved around. However, if large sections of the stone becomes black, then that is considered extinction which isn't desireable.