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firsttimer90036

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
44
First timer here, if you couldn't tell and I need some help working my budget.

I want to spend between $10,000-$11,000 on a diamond and here is what I am looking for ideally. Help me decide which way to go and which aspects to sacrifice to ultimately get a larger diamond.

Here is what I am looking for, thus far:
1. The diamond has to be GIA certified (or AGS? Tell me more about this)
2. The ideal diamond is going to be a Round 1.50+ carat, very good cut, H-color, VS1 clarity and priced around $11-12,000 on the high end.

Please let me know what you can advise and how I can make this work within my budget. Let me know where I can give a little to get a little more on the sizing end, without getting something that is too "milky/cloudy". Honestly, any help will do at this point. I am early in my research and I want to learn as much as possible.
 
Never compromise on cut quality; it's what makes the diamonds sparkle! An ideal cut diamond will face up larger and whiter than a stone that is less well cut.

Does it have to be GIA? Why? AGS is right on par with GIA, and actually they assess light performance for you, so if you find one with a 0 rating (ideal light performance), you're basically guaranteed a great performer. GIA also grades cut, but their highest grade (excellent) is very broad, and some duds do slip through from time to time.

VS1 is overkill in the clarity department in my opinion, unless there is a "mind clean" reason for doing so. Most VS2, many SI1, and some SI2's are eye clean. That will open your doors considerably.

If I were you I'd look at James Allen True Hearts, Good Old Gold, Whiteflash and Brain Gavin to start with. They all have search options, so it shouldn't be too hard to weed out the duds.

If you find a GIA you like, plug the % and angles into this tool https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca. You want ideally a score under 2, although once you are under 2 lower is not necessarily better. This will help weed out stones that are likely to be poor performers. Then ask the vendor for an idealscope image to assess light performance.

If you find an AGS with a 0 for light performance, the work has been done for you and there is no need to use the HCA.
 
firsttimer90036 said:
First timer here, if you couldn't tell and I need some help working my budget.

I want to spend between $10,000-$11,000 on a diamond and here is what I am looking for ideally. Help me decide which way to go and which aspects to sacrifice to ultimately get a larger diamond.

Here is what I am looking for, thus far:
1. The diamond has to be GIA certified
2. The ideal diamond is going to be a Round 1.50+ carat, very good cut, H-color, VS1 clarity and priced around $11,000 on the high end.

Please let me know what you can advise and how I can make this work.
Click to expand...

Only a very, very small minority here wind up buying a "very good cut", and with good reason: the cut of a diamond releases its potential to put on a light show, which is the very reason why these rare stones are worn rather than, say, crystalline yttrium.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.42-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-283161
Here is a GORGEOUS stone-- 1.42 H SI1 for $10,250 minus PS discounts (under $10,000). I recommend you put it on reserve and get an idealscope.

You can get up to 3 on reserve plus idealscopes. If you want, we can help you choose 2 others in that range to choose from. JA is great. i don't see much good stuff from other PS vendors in that carat range.
 
ecf8503|1390664188|3600976 said:
Never compromise on cut quality; it's what makes the diamonds sparkle! An ideal cut diamond will face up larger and whiter than a stone that is less well cut.

Does it have to be GIA? Why? AGS is right on par with GIA, and actually they assess light performance for you, so if you find one with a 0 rating (ideal light performance), you're basically guaranteed a great performer. GIA also grades cut, but their highest grade (excellent) is very broad, and some duds do slip through from time to time.

VS1 is overkill in the clarity department in my opinion, unless there is a "mind clean" reason for doing so. Most VS2, many SI1, and some SI2's are eye clean. That will open your doors considerably.

If I were you I'd look at James Allen True Hearts, Good Old Gold, Whiteflash and Brain Gavin to start with. They all have search options, so it shouldn't be too hard to weed out the duds.

If you find a GIA you like, plug the % and angles into this tool https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca. You want ideally a score under 2, although once you are under 2 lower is not necessarily better. This will help weed out stones that are likely to be poor performers. Then ask the vendor for an idealscope image to assess light performance.

If you find an AGS with a 0 for light performance, the work has been done for you and there is no need to use the HCA.
Click to expand...


Excellent advice! Thank you.

So let's try again:
1.50+ Carat Round
Very Good (or better) Cut
H (or better) Color
SI1 or SI2 (or better) Clarity

Can you send some links? Thanks!
 
teobdl|1390664293|3600977 said:
firsttimer90036 said:
First timer here, if you couldn't tell and I need some help working my budget.

I want to spend between $10,000-$11,000 on a diamond and here is what I am looking for ideally. Help me decide which way to go and which aspects to sacrifice to ultimately get a larger diamond.

Here is what I am looking for, thus far:
1. The diamond has to be GIA certified
2. The ideal diamond is going to be a Round 1.50+ carat, very good cut, H-color, VS1 clarity and priced around $11,000 on the high end.

Please let me know what you can advise and how I can make this work.
Click to expand...

Only a very, very small minority here wind up buying a "very good cut", and with good reason: the cut of a diamond releases its potential to put on a light show, which is the very reason why these rare stones are worn rather than, say, crystalline yttrium.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.42-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-283161
Here is a GORGEOUS stone-- 1.42 H SI1 for $10,250 minus PS discounts (under $10,000). I recommend you put it on reserve and get an idealscope.

You can get up to 3 on reserve plus idealscopes. If you want, we can help you choose 2 others in that range to choose from. JA is great. i don't see much good stuff from other PS vendors in that carat range.
Click to expand...


So most get even BETTER THAN VERY GOOD? I am open to better but not worse. Please enlighten me further. First timer out here! Thanks!
 
 
Sorry for the confusion: yes--PSers recommend getting the top GIA grade ("Excellent") or the top AGS grade ("Ideal"), not "Very Good" cut, because there will almost certainly be light leakage and a reduced pattern that is pleasing to the eye.

Light leakage means that rather than light being reflected back to your eyes, it's actually leaving out of the bottom or side of the diamond. As a result, you will see less brightness, and fewer colored and white flashes ("fire" and "scintillation"). This is what makes a diamond so amazing to watch.

You might think of cut grades as a bullseye--VG is a very big circle, with good even bigger, and poor is the rest of the universe. The GIA excellent is the 2nd smallest circle, and the AGS ideal is the smallest circle. Even smaller are the superideals of PS vendors (and probably of expensive brick and mortar stores like tiffany and hearts on fire, cartier, etc): A Cut Above (Whiteflash... their Expert Selection have almost identical light performance), Brian Gavin Signature (Brian Gavin Diamonds), Crafted by Infinity (at a few PS vendors like highperformance diamonds and diamonds by lauren), and Good Old Gold superior hearts and arrows diamonds.

Because GIA and AGS are different grading systems, a diamond graded GIA Excellent may also fall into the AGS Ideal range, but it may not. All AGS ideal (or practically all AGS ideal) will fall into the GIA excellent range.
 
Mayk|1390686974|3601123 said:
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-280784

Ask for PS discount. Pick two more ask for ASET...
Click to expand...

I saw this one, but this only scores a 3.6 on the HCA ("worth buying if the price is right", only VG for light return, fire and spread, only good for scintillation). I'd maybe ask for an idealscope image (not ASET for rounds - ASET's are more useful for fancy shapes) only if I couldn't find 3 others I like better. This isn't as "ideal" as we'd like to see you get.
 
teobdl|1390666051|3600985 said:
Even smaller are the superideals of PS vendors (and probably of expensive brick and mortar stores like tiffany and hearts on fire, cartier, etc)
Click to expand...

Just to be clear, places like Tiffany and Cartier make no claims on carrying superideals. Not enough people posting here try to shop at Cartier, but plenty shopping at Tiffs find their round diamonds fall short of recommended specs, most usually being deep and facing up smaller than average for the weight. Not horribly so, iirc they're all in GIA Excellent range, but they certainly aren't even as strict as selection as AGS 0.
 
You're right--probably a misuse of superideal, which suggests a given set of proportions and cut precision within those proportions. I was more suggesting that unlike a typical GIA Ex, stones from those vendors are pretty much guaranteed to be a beautiful, no matter the grade. They have excellent reputations to uphold. I don't have data to back it up, so take my opinion for what it's worth. Anyone who's actually seen a Tiffany or Cartier diamond will probably agree that they're beautiful.
 
A simple visual representation for why cut matters so much:

http://www.jamesallen.com/education/diamonds/diamond-cut/

Just take any comments on the gimmicky stuff like Hearts & Arrows, Signature Ideal, 100-facet cuts, etc. with a grain of salt. The light refraction formula for the ideal cut was perfected in 1919 and little if any improvement has been identified since then, except perhaps by diamond marketers trying to improve their profit margins.
 
I am NO WAY an expert. I joined last week in the same situation you were in. I bought a Diamond from whiteflash.com thanks to this forum. I was directed there by some helpful people.

It was:
1.6ct
H color
Ideal cut
VVS1

I would STRONGLY recommend going to whiteflash and see their inventory. This was my first experience buying diamonds and they made in super easy. I went to Kays and Jareds and whiteflash blew them out of the water in pricing and response time with any questions.

Look at this one. This was my next pick if I didnt get the one I wanted

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut-loose-diamond-3036256.htm

Like i stated im NO EXPERT but I was in the same boat as you a week ago. Good Luck
 
I was in Harry Winston on Fifth Ave last year and the salesman was making fun of a couple who had declined to purchase one of their creations and instead bought an IF H-color at Cartier. His comment: "the sales guy at Cartier really earned his commission selling them that ring. It's completely upside down to pay for exceptional clarity but a low color." I don't usually heed the advice of salespeople, but that's pretty reasonable. Don't pay extra for clarity higher than SI1, good polish/symmetry, or excellent cut. There are plenty of supposedly reputable vendors who will sell you something "better" on one or more of those dimensions, often for a significantly higher price, but the only person who will notice the difference is the guy at your bank who wires the money for the purchase price.
 
Ok...after some research and conversations with close friends, I have fine tuned my search...Here it is:

1.5-1.75 Carat Round
Very Good to Excellent Cut
VS2 or SI1 Clarity
H Color

Looking to spend under $12,000 if possible.

Help me find the right diamond! I hear this is the place to find it.
 
GeorgeStevens|1390780261|3601720 said:
I was in Harry Winston on Fifth Ave last year and the salesman was making fun of a couple who had declined to purchase one of their creations and instead bought an IF H-color at Cartier. His comment: "the sales guy at Cartier really earned his commission selling them that ring. It's completely upside down to pay for exceptional clarity but a low color." I don't usually heed the advice of salespeople, but that's pretty reasonable. Don't pay extra for clarity higher than SI1, good polish/symmetry, or excellent cut. There are plenty of supposedly reputable vendors who will sell you something "better" on one or more of those dimensions, often for a significantly higher price, but the only person who will notice the difference is the guy at your bank who wires the money for the purchase price.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. So what clarity range do you recommend? What is ideal? What color range do you recommend? What is ideal? I am curous to hear your opinion and take, thanks!
 
firsttimer90036|1390861111|3602282 said:
Ok...after some research and conversations with close friends, I have fine tuned my search...Here it is:

1.5-1.75 Carat Round
Very Good to Excellent Cut
VS2 or SI1 Clarity
H Color

Looking to spend under $12,000 if possible.

Help me find the right diamond! I hear this is the place to find it.
Click to expand...


This is still a great option, and checks every single one of your boxes. It's also an AGS0 - Ideal cut:

1.51ct, H, SI1 - right at your budget
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/10620/
 
firsttimer90036|1390861111|3602282 said:
Ok...after some research and conversations with close friends, I have fine tuned my search...Here it is:

1.5-1.75 Carat Round
Very Good to Excellent Cut
VS2 or SI1 Clarity
H Color

Looking to spend under $12,500 if possible.

Help me find the right diamond! I hear this is the place to find it.
Click to expand...


Anyone have anything new given these parameters?
 
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