Help with milgrain terminology

[CSpan]

I am having my new wedding band redone and was asked if I wanted milgrain. I'm super gun shy because while lovely the milgrain on my ering is so fine most examples today look too big, if that makes any sense.


I am also unsure how delicate my jeweler's bench can go as I have never used him and after the poor initial setting of the last ring I'm not 100% on his attention to detail.

Questions
1. Are there different types of milgrain and do they have names or are they referred to by tool. He said they cast so it is "perfect," sounds more like so it identical or they can't do by hand. I want to clear and make sure I'm using the correct terms.
2. Can it be removed if it is awful or does that require a remake?
3. Can it be added later? I have seen some beautiful work on PS and read about engravers, do engravers take on other people's work? Can anyone recommend someone?

 

[Wewechew]

I can't answer questions 1 and 2, but DK can add milgrain to a piece after the fact. I know at least one person that has sent a plain wedding band to him to do engraving on it.

 

[distracts]

Your antique ring has milgrain that was done by hand. No cast milgrain will be as fine. It can probably get fairly close though. I would see if your jeweler has examples, had photos of examples, or can make an example on a bit of metal before deciding on yours.

I thiiiiink most can be polished away? Probably depends a lot on the setting though.

If they cast the edges in the right shape, milgrain can be added later. Someone with more knowledge would have to answer this.

 

[JPie]

Agree with @distracts - cast milgrain isn’t going to be as fine as that done by hand. If you want it to look more like your antique ring, then you’ll want to have the bench do it by hand.

 

[CSpan]

Here is the CAD for reference
Here is the inspiration ring it is a vintage peice and has no milgrain


And just cause I'm obsessed with the spacing unrelated to milgrain, I found this. I realize it is for asscher cuts but I really like the spacing definition. I'm not sure the CAD quite nailed it. We went through a few rounds so I'll have to see the wax (and then I can speak to it). I realize the Inspiration ring isn't as defined but I think the additional space will appear clearly as octagons vs squares or a solid line of boxes.


Thanks for all your help

 

[AV_]

I have not heard other terms for beady edges. IMHO, do not trust that any such finish can be undone.

 

[distracts]

Oh that CAD looks a lot better than your first one!

 

[oldminer]

The typical millegrain on old items, such as the one in your original photo was applied by a rolling tool, much the same as the crimper that puts a ruffled edge on a pie. It rolls along and equally spaces small beading marks. It is moved by hand, but it is not applied one bead at a time. There are different milling tools which make smaller to larger beads and with spaces which vary in distance between bumps. You can ask for a sample of what the jeweler would use on your job to see if you think it meets your needs before it is applied to the new ring. They might roll their eyes, but don't be discouraged. You want to control the outcome which is far better than rejecting the finished ring because something such as the millegrain size and relief is unpleasing to your eye. Work with a jeweler who will work with you. It should be a happy and cooperative experience, not a war of who is in charge. Most jewelers like to show off what variations they are able to provide.

The really heavy balls of millegrain, such as used on Tacori items, are appear to be duplicated from the original model and simply cast in place. These beads are not the same millegrain as the traditional type applied by a form of an engraving tool as described above.

There is hand done, one bead at a time, millegrain too, but it is really unusual to see it on modern made item. Maybe one would see it done in the Middle East or India. It is time consuming and not particularly better than the more rapid method. Of course, for the purist, one might consider it essential. I never felt that particular need, but it is possible to do, if desired. I don't see any special advantage in it on a personal basis.

 

[Victor Canera]

Hi CSpan,

Welcome to the forums. To answer some of your questions;

1- The finest migraine is usually done by hand after the metal is finished which in this case would be after the casting is complete.
The migrain tools are similar to pizza cutting wheels which a lot of people are familiar with. They have numbers to indicate how fine or coarse the craftsman wants the migrain to be. The decision on how fine or coarse varies from one project to another: https://www.stuller.com/products/53-1000/2111952/?groupId=22933&recommendationSource=SiteSearch

Then there’s also double migrain etc. but I don’t want to confuse things further.

Men’s bands for example would need a relatively coarse migrain for it to be visible. I know linking to your own page might be in bad taste but here’s a coarse migraine I employed that still looks great: https://www.victorcanera.com/rings/bands/classic-domed-band-with-millgrain-edges

There are also male and female migraine tools for pieces like this. Sorry, I know it can get confusing.

2- Milgrain can’t be easily removed IMO without damaging the ring. Migraine does tend to soften over the course of many many years of wear though especially in white gold.

3- Milgrain can be added later. That might be a perfect option for you to see how you feel about a piece and then have it added in later.


Good luck!

 

[JPie]

Kataoka actually does their milgrain one bead at a time. They have some great photos on their IG:

https://www.instagram.com/p/B0ejgVnj597/?igshid=1mdo1yp5w75h

 

[Victor Canera]

Great point @JPie
Beading is actually something a little different from milgrain though. Beading is usually done on flat surfaces rather than on edges or corners of a piece. The bead is created by using a sharp tool with a negative circle on the tip. It’s usually done on areas of a piece that aren’t wide enough to do full engraving. For those that like to see the actual tool, here's one: https://www.riogrande.com/product/busch-beading-tools/341522gp

Here’s one of my past designs that has beading (done one bead at a time) in a small section with migrain above and below it.



My Best,

 

[sledge]

Just wanted to say thank you for your contributions @Victor Canera. I've read a few of your posts and find them enjoyable and conducive to furthering my knowledge. Thank you!

 

[JPie]

Victor Canera" data-source="post: 4621268" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Great point @JPie
Beading is actually something a little different from milgrain though. Beading is usually done on flat surfaces rather than on edges or corners of a piece. The bead is created by using a sharp tool with a negative circle on the tip. It’s usually done on areas of a piece that aren’t wide enough to do full engraving. For those that like to see the actual tool, here's one: https://www.riogrande.com/product/busch-beading-tools/341522gp

Here’s one of my past designs that has beading (done one bead at a time) in a small section with migrain above and below it.



My Best,

So happy to learn something new! Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

 

[CSpan]

Oh that CAD looks a lot better than your first one!

Right? Thanks for going on this journey with me. God knows my husband is not interested in the least

I still think I would like more definition but we will see. I'll keep you updated (if you want to or not)

 

[motownmama]

I love your ER btw !

 

[CSpan]

I love your ER btw !

Thank you! I owe everyone a SMTB thread but I want to do it right!