Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Legacy??

[PintoBean]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Hi Kamancali!

If you go the BGD route, everyone there is great and will discuss each stone with you. I have not seen one of their Js, but have seen a 1.8 BGD signature round "I" color in the Kristin halo which I believe is F/G melee, and face up the "I" is white and there is no discernible difference in color between the the center stone and the melee (to me).

I can tell that you're really excited about this whole process, but I really think you need to heed Gypsy's advice. I think it will be thoughtful and exciting to pick out an engagement ring TOGETHER. If you love surprises, after you get the ring, you can still set up a wonderful surprise proposal!

I'm gonna try to attempt an analogy - I'm a little bleary eyed, so hopefully this works: Buying an engagement ring can be like buying your sweetheart a car. You know your sweetheart likes Toyotas, so you decide to surprise her with a black Highlander. Lo and behold, yes, she likes Toyotas, but she was jonesing for a Prius in silver because she favors a Toyota that is green, fuel efficient, in a color that does not show chips or dust as easily, and is easier to parallel park with on the busy streets by her workplace. Disaster! Had you looked at the Toyota site online together, checked out a showroom, or better yet, taken some Toyotas out for a test drive, you would have gotten a better picture of what she wanted in a car.

LOL - I just went to read the marquise thread and Gypsy had already given you a car analogy. Listen to Gypsy!

 

[Verdy]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Listen to Gypsy!

I third this! I've heard so many horror stories of engagement rings gone awry because the fiancé didn't about HER opinion on how to design the engagement ring. A surprise is great when you have all the deets that you need, but it can go horribly wrong if you're hunting for a ring in the dark. You have a general idea of what she wants, and it's a good start but like Gypsy said, this is a once in a life time experience for her, so make it as special as you possibly can! You don't have to give it all away, take her to a store, have her look around and point out things she likes, make a mental note and do the rest from there. This was the very first subject FI and I talked about when we started considering engagement rings. He wanted to know if I wanted to help him, or if I wanted a surprise. I opted to help out, and the process form there was great, the experience of letting him know what I liked and didn't like helped even him get to know me a little better, so don't toss out the option of asking her, or having someone ask, it's all part of the process!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7263/ If you want something that will outshine and dazzle the Legacy... meet the Octavia.

 

[AmeliaG]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

OK, kamancali, I think analysis paralysis is setting in again. You say you're a spontaneous type of guy - this process is no longer spontaneous for you. People have their best way of doing things and I don't think this way of going about it is the best for you.

I think its important for you to realize that she's got to have input on the ring. The question then becomes when - before or after she gets the ring.

If you go shopping with her beforehand, you have more options. You can go custom which is not returnable (usually risky) because at least she's been in on the design phase and has signed off on the CADs before you put money down.

If you surprise her with a ring, she still needs to have the input after she gets it and in order to do that, she has to have the freedom to return or exchange it for something different - ie, like you said, the ring needs to be returnable. In that case, it doesn't pay for you to spend too much time upfront on design decisions before she's involved because she may have to re-do some of those design decisions once she gets the ring and you'll both be doing double-work. You still can leave the custom route open to her even if you've surprised her with the ring. Just show her a couple of the custom routes you had considered and tell her you needed her input to go that route although she may not want it. Think options, here.

So, you want to go the surprise route, people here may shoot me, but if I were in your shoes and I could afford, I'd get her the original Tiffany Legacy ring with graduated sidestones.

Now hear me out. I know Tiffany's is overpriced but that's the only thing that she's said that she likes. She still may want to return it if you surprise her with it but she will like it because she's already said so and since she likes it, the proposal will still be memorable. You can still tell her about the custom options you had considered (show her the websites of Victor Canera, Leon Mege, etc.) and leave those options open to her if she wants to return the Legacy. You can even mention that you can go larger on the diamond if she wants with the custom route.

Also Tiffany's does not have BAD cut diamonds; they're better than most B&M stores; they're simply not H&A quality diamonds like the Whiteflash ACA and Brian Gavin Select but you're not looking at rounds so you have to judge with your eyes anyway. At the very least, you can look up some Good Old Gold videos of cushions so you have a point of reference when you go in.

Either way, you're still giving her options which every woman wants and if you surprise her with the Tiffany Legacy, its less time consuming for you upfront. If you just think of it as deciding on when to give her the options rather than wowing her with her forever ring, you will do fine with a surprise proposal. I just wouldn't spend too much time before you give her the ring which is why I suggest the original Legacy if you can afford it for the simple reason that you know she likes it. For a surprise proposal, the fact that you know she likes it trumps everything else you're going to read on this forum or anywhere else.

 

[kamancali]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Thanks everyone, but I think this is where we agree to disagree. The proposal to me is all about "The Moment", not the ring. The rock, ring, etc are all icing on the cake. Now, I'll try my best to make the icing as good as possible, but in the scope of things, it's not all that important. So I'll be moving forward with this approach, the traditional way, and anything you can help out with is much appreciated, but limited to picking a quality ring and rock. Otherwise we'll have to rename this site proposalscope! Other than that, keep things on the rock and ring coming!

Thanks again,
KamanCali

 

[AmeliaG]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Hey kamancali,

Believe it or not, we're actually agreeing. The ring isn't as important as the proposal. That's why I suggested to save yourself time and get the Tiffany Legacy you know she likes and spend all this creative energy on planning that surprise proposal. It WILL be memorable in every way. Chances are she'll want to keep the ring. If not, it won't detract from the proposal and you've got some amazing alternatives from here on this thread in your back pocket.

As far as getting a decent cushion from Tiffany's, I haven't bought a cushion so others can help you more but all fancy cuts are best judged by looking at them. Tiffany diamonds come with GIA reports so you do have some numbers to work with to weed out bad performers and the site have a fancy cut cushion chart and fancy cut calculator under Resources that you can use as a starting point. Still the best way to learn about fancies is to use your eyes.

Good luck!

 

[PintoBean]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Hi Kaman,

Since you have the advantage of being within a reasonable distance of the vendors Gypsy recommended, I really suggest going to see their work in person to get a feel for their style and whether you think you and the vendor "vibe". Pictures are great and all, but NOTHING compares to a LIVE experience! Plus, not every piece designed may be posted on their sites, so something new you hadn't seen before may inspire you!

Even if you decide to go with an online vendor outside your locale, (you have gotten a lot of great vendor recommendations), sometimes it's just a matter of "chemistry" between you and the sales rep that sways you to go with one vendor over the other. E.g., when I worked with BGD on my mom's ring, Denise at BGD and I really just hit it off on the phone and the communication was just as smooth by e-mail. I guess you can say we "clicked" - so much so that in the span of 4 months, we went back another 4x to do projects with BGD through Denise!

So in a nutshell, my suggestion is to visit some of the recommended vendors that are local and call up some online vendors as well, with the goal of connecting with someone that understands your vision, that you're comfortable with so that your "icing" can come to fruition!

P.S - if and when you visit the vendors - come back and post pics of "icing" you like!!!

 

[Amys Bling]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

You can always take her so she can have some input -for example- take her looking at stones and setting types and take notes on aspects she liked and didn't like. Then you can customize a ring with her input but it will still be a surprise.

 

[vsc]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Hi Kamankali,

I'd have to disagree with Amelia. Don't get a Tiffany Legacy: her friend has one. Enough said.

Is there some characteristic(s) that makes the Legacy stand out amongst her friends' rings? Is it maybe the sparkliest one, or the only one with an elaborate, antique style setting? Or the only one that's not a round brilliant cut solitaire? The only one with a halo?

I would get something in the same spirit, and try to stick with something returnable, then hope that she will feel comfortable telling you if it's not the one for her. So many women will not dare say anything because they are so happy to be engaged and don't want to hurt their FI's feelings.

Good luck!

 

[TristanC]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

I know why everyone tells you to just give up and ask her. If a friend asked my SO what ring she would want, she would reply "something from him, and sometime soon". She wouldn't say "in the style of the tiffany legacy, and definitely no split shank"

So the warning signs say that she has pretty firm ideas on what she wants.

I also know why you are standing firm. It is important to you, and I believe if you think that it is important to you, it should be important to your SO too. Otherwise with all the gentle prodding from your SO's friends, the game would be up already and she would have insisted on doing it herself.

So back to what you need:

I think you can get BETTER than the legacy if you go a few routes: Leon Medge, Steven Kirsch, Victor Canera.

I would overwhelmingly recommend Victor Canera for the job, in the style that you showed.

Get more intel, and get going sir. the very best of luck!

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Okay like I said, had to try, but we'll move on.

Okay so here are some thoughts. Don't get a Legacy. Her friend has one. Not gonna look like you put any thought in it at all. And no one wants to have the "she COPIED ME, Oh. My. God." ring.

On diamond shapes.

1. Marquise. Pears and Ovals and Rounds Brilliants are spready for their weight. So with less carat weight you get more size. Ovals and Round Brilliants are generally a breeze to set. There are a ton of settings for RB's, and MANY can be easily modified for ovals. Round Brilliants are the easiest shape to shop for, there are plenty of them, and if you get one with ideal light return (which doesn't mean perfect hearts and arrows-- this is a misconception) you can drop in both color in clarity more than with any other shape because there are no corners to concentrate colors, and the light return allows the body color (face up) to be masked AND with the brilliant facetting you can hide inclusions better. Ovals, marquise and pears are all prone to "bowtie" flaws, and must be carefully vetted pictures, in person viewing and/or ASETs are a must.

2. IN GENERAL (but not in every case as there aren't cut and facetting standards for cushions) square cushions face up smaller than rounds. Usually a 1 carat square cushion with be at or around 6 mm square. But because they are brilliant cuts your eye isn't drawn IN the way it is with step cuts. Very easy cut to set. Pictures and ASET or in person viewing are very important (unless it is a proprietary cut that has tight standards... like the Quadex you were looking at). (With the exception of "ideal" cushions with focus on light return... like the Quadex) cushions hide color less well than a round but really well (ideals are very close to rounds in masking, usually). All cushions will hide inclusions better than a step cut. There are a ton of shapes for cushions though some that are just squares with barely rounded corners others that are almost like ovals or wonky rounds. Facet patterns are all over the place some are exact and ordered, others are chaotic like radiants, some have less facets like an antique cut some will have a ton everywhere. You HAVE to see these (and usually in person) to decide what "type" appeals to you. Cause HUGE pics of a giant stone... that is really just 6x6 in real life do not tell you what you will think of the facets when they are in front on you in person.

3. Asschers are square emerald cuts. And are generally cut deep to get the 'endless steps' look of the facetting. IF you are lucky you will get a 1 carat asscher at around 5.8 mm square. Usually you don't get lucky. But at about 64-65 depth you are looking at about 5.8 at 1 carat, 6.3 at 1.5 carats, and 6.8 at 2 carats. That's on par-ish with cushions but with asscher your eye is drawn IN as it is a step cut so it's a very distinct look that if you love... you are hooked, and you'll deal with the fact that the spread on most asschers is well, lacking. Generally we tell people not to bother with asscher center stones under 5 mm squares cause you won't get the effect of the facetting at smaller sizes. They can be challenging to set. Step cuts also show inclusions MUCH more easily than brilliant cuts, so you will NORMALLY need higher color and clarity to get a white and clean stone (Octavia Asscher's are cut for light return however, so in thoery and from what I have been told, they are better with color than regular step cuts with masking color). Asschers are tricky to shop for and pretty much a NO without pictures or an in person viewing (Royal Asschers and Octavia's excepted from this since they have VERY narrow standards are are extremely low in production and tight in quality control).

4. Rectangular Emerald Cuts, BECAUSE of the rectangular shape these are generally better with spread than asschers. You are looking at 5 x 7 at one carat. But again... the steps draw you in. And finding a well cut Emerald cut can be a tough job unless you work with a vendor (we recommend GOG, ERD and Perry Chen at Leon Mege) who really knows these cuts. Emerald cuts are generally (despite the regrettable trend in Hollywood to supersize these until they are monstrous) considered one of the most elegant and classic cuts. Again, shop with your eyes either in person or with pics and an ASET.

5. Rectangular cushions, again because of the rectangular shape you tend to get more, or the impression of more, spread with these. About 5 x 7 for a one carat, but because these are brilliant cuts your eye is not drawn in... so many people think a cushion looks bigger. Can also have a "Bow tie" and you need pics and an ASET and/or in person viewing.

6. Radiants. Generally with regard to spread they behave like cushions. MANY have what appears to be "crushed ice" facetting that is an 'acquired taste"... Radiant cuts also trap color, this is why most fancy cut stones like fancy yellows are radiant facetted to concentrate color-- so like asschers they need higher color, but they do not need higher clarity because they are brilliant cuts. Can be bowtied, but usually not an issue with the chaos of the facets. Absolutely need pics, in person assessment and/or ASET.

7. Old European Cuts and Transitional Cuts. These are "old cuts" they are rounds with facetting that pre-dates the modern Round Brilliant. These are the "next big trend" ... PS, IMO, generally sets trends, does not follow them. We adored asschers before anyone knew what they were. Were gaga about cushions before the Legecy or the Novo brought them to public attention, and now we are crazy about old cuts. GOG's August Vintage Rounds are new diamonds with old facetting. MANY of these get amazing light return, or CAN get amazing light return with minimum work (slight re-cut, some polishing, some rehab). They are NOT consistent with spread at all. Usually they are cut deeper than a Round Brilliant, but some can be very shallow as well. Even the deep ones though are spreadier than say a asscher. Plus, again they are brilliant cuts so they will mask inclusions and do not draw your eye in. You need to watch for girdle chips and polishing issues with 'real' antique stones. And usually the higher colors have been recut to round brilliants, so most on the market are H and below (but not all). Lots of settings for these (anything that works with a round brilliant) but because of potential girdle issues you will probably want to stick with settings that are girdle protective. They can also be AMAZING deals because you can find them at pawn shops, on ebay, and at antique jewelry vendors at prices per carat that are less than round brilliants (certainly) and many other cuts as well. With anything though, the best deals are on the ones that don't have a ton of information provided (no certificate and just a picture or two and a wing and a prayer). I actually have an extremely gorgeous OEC with great light return bookmarked and it would be my first choice for just about any vintage style setting. Tell me if interested, I MIGHT be willing to share. You need pictures of the facets absolutely since that is wear the beauty of these shines through. IN person viewing is a huge plus.

7. Old Mine Cuts. These are antique cushions. All Old Mines are antique cushions, but not all antique cushions are old mines. If you want to know more... we can direct you to a ton of threads where cushions are examined and dissected and you can learn more. They have the same "issues" as the Old European cuts (girdles, polish) and many of them seem to have off center culets... this can be considered 'personality' or a flaw depending on the eye of the beholder. These are usually also H and below in color when true antiques. Can be set in any setting for a cushion (watch the girdle) and if square they can be round-ish and can be sett in some settings (prongs) for rounds. Not particularly spready, but again there are wild variations in the depth of the stones so there are wide variations in the spread. Pics, in person an/or ASET.

8. Princess cuts. Whoops almost forgot these. Okay. AGS now grades the cut quality of these. So they are second easiest to shop for. Those sharp corners are a problem though. They WILL show color and if they are not set properly OR if they are banged in the right place those corners will chip right off. Extremely easy to find a setting. Hide inclusions very well. Color... not so much as the tips to give things away. But still, if you get one with ideal light return you can really hide a lot. They are very popular and they are the cut MOST will think about first when the word "square diamond" is stated. Please, please please... stay away from any Mall princess I have only seen like 4 that are worth looking at ever. We have MANY vendors that cut ideal princess cuts, so if you want one... we can hook you up with ease. They are NOT AT ALL spready. In fact if there is a cut that is WORSE than the asscher with spread it IS the princess cut. Ideal princess cuts will need both table and DEPTH in the 70% range. That mean a one carat princess is at 5.5 mm... max most of the time. They are easy to find settings for. And more and more... as people realize "Cushions Exist"... they are becoming marginalized and more of a "are you SURE you want a princess" shape.

Why the disertation... I threw my back out hunting for my own ring today so I'm bored.

But also... I'm not sure you are ready to make a center stone choice so I thought I'd give you a rundown.

And now give you some homework.

With the exception of a Marquise, Pear or Radiant (both have their fans but they aren't in the majority). ANY of these would look very beautiful in the right antique style setting-- and I doubt MOST ladies would be able to tell you they HATE any of these when properly set. Obviously Pricescoper have their preferences (and are quite vocal about them) but for the majority of the populace if these are in the right "frame" for their beauty and personality... they'd be thrilled.

I can honestly say that since the Legacy cut is A) both square and rectangular depending on the individual stone and B) a hybrid of a step cut and a brilliant cut and C) cushion shaped with with rounded (not cut) corners.... a round stone (OEC, Transition, Modern RB), an asscher, an emerald cut, an oval, or a cushion (antique cut or modern or hearts and arrows) would ALL work for your lady. From the information we have right now.

So it is important for YOU to educate your eyes as much as possible. Not just with pictures. I have been on here for YEARS and I can not tell you how many times I have seen stones in pics on here... then seen them in real life (this does not include round brilliants) and just been WOWed by the "personality" of the stone in person... much more so than in real life. Diamonds do their thing best when they are in motion and they are playing with light, and throwing around and catching your eye. So their 'personalities' especially with fancy cuts (anything but a round brilliant is considered a fancy cut) really set them apart and (this might sound nuts) make them individuals. And... unfortunately the opposite is occasionally true too. Where online I think the stone looks nice and in person it's flat, oddly small, or just not shiny (keep your diamonds clean.)

I've also seen J's I would swear were H's and J's I would swear were M's. I've seen D's that are just... whiter than white and D's where I've thought my own F was a higher color. I've seen "branded cuts" that just leave me cold (the Tycoon Cut and the Criss Cut) and others that I have crave to possess (Juliet, Lucre, and the Lucida).

So please visit as many high end jewelers as possible. You live near Neil Lane, Harry Winston, 23rd Street Jewelers, Cartier... just about EVERY major and amazing (my personal favorite being Fred Leighton... OH. MY. GOD. I'd pay RENT to stay there for a few hours and play) jeweler.

Not many have that right at their finger tips. Actually outside of Las Vegas, LA and NY... no one really has that. So take advantage of your WONDERFUL geographic location (that you pay an arm and a leg to live in) and.... Go out, spend a week doing some research. ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS. Get a look at EVERY SINGLE certificate you can and compare it to the stone that it correlates to. Find out what your eye loves and what it doesn't.

Since you don't have her eyes. Yours need to do double duty my friend.

I would NOT give this advice to anyone shopping for a round brilliant. Or even a princess. But for someone searching for 'something that is in the same family as a Legacy and is fabulous enough to make that special someone gasp and feel like a queen'... yeah... research.

Have fun. Let us know when you KNOW what shape you want. What SIZE you want (MILLIMETERS NOT CARATS) and VERY IMPORTANT what COLOR you want in the size and shape. Color changes, sometimes drastically, with size and shape. Then we can help you more. Until then you are pretty much just... kinda guessing at what you like and what it will look like on the hand and in person.

And SIZE can make or break your ring or setting. If your center is too big for the style or setting it can frankly look wonky or... well, kinda "MY ONLY CRITERIA WAS SIZE". If it's too small for the style or setting it's like... "are you SURE there's a center stone in all of that?"... that applies to stones as large as 2 carats. My coworker had a 2 carat cushion in the BUSIEST SETTING I HAVE EVER SEEN. And I swear to you I didn't know it was a cushion. I didn't think it was 2 carats. And I had no idea there was ONE STONE in the middle of all that other STUFF.

Okay. I'm exhausted. And again... take it or leave it. But if you really want to get your money's worth (and you talking about spending at a minimum 12K and depending on the setting you chose... easily 15 to 18K) on a ring.

 

[Gypsy]

Re: Help with E-ring- how to make better than Tiffany's Lega

Crud. Forgot something... I know, I use THAT many words and I forgot something. Amazing but true. I realized that I mislead you... The Quadex, while gorgeous, IS NOT A CUSHION. It is a modified CUT CORNERED square brilliant. SO... while the faceting is CLOSER to a round, the SHAPE is closest to a square radiant. It's not TECHNICALLY considered a cushion-- depending on who you ask. The Princess of Hearts (carried by GOG) is also like this. Close enough for some. Not so much for others.

Also even though they are square (well, again they are TECHNICALLY an octagon, not a square... picky picky people on PS) ... unless you set them right to show off their beautiful cut cornered shape, some people will think they are just a round with 'something different" about it. Especially in a busy prong setting the outline can get lost and the faceting which is so close to a round with trick the eye.