Help with Alexandrite

[Ecorap]

I have read a lot on Alex and still I find it confusing. I am about to make a major purchase $20k so I would appreciate your advice. the stone was advertised with an IGI cert (India) with some great pictures on the report and a colour of Deep Green blue to Purple Red.

The IGI pictures backed this up.

the sellers website showed an emerald green to ruby red change

as a third opinion I got them to send it to a GIA lab, and they certified it as Blue Green to Purple http://www.gia.edu/otmm_wcs_int/viewimage.jsp?IMG_TYPE=DGTIMG&IMG_NO=6776878F6450BB00D9A3E53CC13147C7&s=1425324210292

just wandering whether these discrepancies are normal for Alex and whether lighting used to take the photo can make that big a difference

thanks
Richard

 

[denverappraiser]

Hi Richard,

Lighting makes ALL the difference, both in person and especially in photographs. The spectrum of the light source is the reason you see a color change at all. Good photos of this sort of thing are extremely difficult and the setups used vary dramatically.

Did GIA take those pictures and are they of your stone or samples from the site.

 

[Niel]

Ask to have this moved to the colored stones submforum. You'll get a lot more responses. At the for right of your post you'll see a "report concern" hit that and ask to have it moved to "Colored Stones"

They'll take good care of you lol.

 

[LoversKites]

No alex changes from emerald green to ruby red. Its a myth.

Pictures on lab reports are for identification purposes and its NOT a good way to judge colour. I would guess the seller likely photoshopped the colour change and I would not rely on their photographs.

Even if both colours look good, you still need to know what it looks like in mixed light.

GIA have misidentified synthetic alex for natural alex once in the past. I'd prefer an AGL prestige report for such a purchase.

Look at multicolour.com for alex comparisons. They have a lot of low to med grade alex and some very nice alex too.

Yes, moving this to CS will result in lots of experienced opinions

 

[Ecorap]

Thanks all, first ever post so will try and do better next time.

I have both IGI and GIA certs, the photos on the link above are the GIA certs photos, the IGI ones are much more green blue, and purple red.



I shall try and move the post. here is the IGI cert for comparison

thank you for the quick responses. Much appreciated

R

 

[diamondseeker2006]

What they will tell you, probably, is that only a couple of labs can be trusted, and that is not one of them. But they can tell you reliable vendors for colored gems including alexandrite. You must be very careful who you buy from and have a reliable grading report.

 

[LoversKites]

Ah, I had a hunch on the vendor and I found the stone you're talking about based on the IGI reports' info. I won't post the link since if you wanted to you would have.

First of all, as I said before, don't pay too much attention to the IGI or GIA report photos. They are not necessarily accurate for colour. Colour descriptions are more reliable, and I'd trust GIA's colour description over IGI's. Alex with a dominant red colour is very rare -- most fine alex is more of a pinkish or purplish in incandescent light.

On my monitor I see a brown modifier in the seller's incandescent shot -- like Indian alex often has. However I have no idea how accurate their photography is. The big thing is, they don't show the stone in mixed light which is what you'll be seeing it in most of the time. Please ask them about this. Tons of alex has a muddy colour in mixed lighting -- a mishmash of the two other colours rather than a pleasing one.

I see from the video that the stone is moderately included and has silk. Ask them if the inclusions break the surface and if they pose a durability risk.

My advice would be to go with a smaller, higher quality stone but it is your choice if you want to prioritize size. 20k could get you an alex of approx 1.5ct based on Multicolour's pricing which is considered a vendor with fair pricing. This stone is too dark for my taste but it's definitely of high quality.
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/alexandrite/yax742aa/&930512007
Big window on this one but nice colour; I may as well link it: http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/alexandrite/imax0020aa/&930512007

This vendor is typically more pricey than others:
http://www.africagems.com/round-alexandrite-gemstone-52617634.html
http://www.africagems.com/oval-alexandrite-gemstone-56617246.html

4ct alexandrites for price reference (highly trusted seller, even though it's ebay):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alex-On-Fire-Natural-Alexandrite-4-ct-Green-to-Purple-Red-GRS-Certified-/121557418033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d630031
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Brazil-Alexandrite-Octagon-4-40ct-Gubelin-Certified-Clean-Gem-/121559951045?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d89a6c5

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I will say add that Africa Gems has two sales a year and one has already passed. But those are a great time to buy if the timing works out.

 

[LoversKites]

Did GIA take those pictures and are they of your stone or samples from the site.

I can tell from the inclusions that it's pictures of his stone. GIA did take them as the link for the image is to GIA's site.

 

[Niel]

Ah, I had a hunch on the vendor and I found the stone you're talking about based on the IGI reports' info. I won't post the link since if you wanted to you would have.

First of all, as I said before, don't pay too much attention to the IGI or GIA report photos. They are not necessarily accurate for colour. Colour descriptions are more reliable, and I'd trust GIA's colour description over IGI's. Alex with a dominant red colour is very rare -- most fine alex is more of a pinkish or purplish in incandescent light.

On my monitor I see a brown modifier in the seller's incandescent shot -- like Indian alex often has. However I have no idea how accurate their photography is. The big thing is, they don't show the stone in mixed light which is what you'll be seeing it in most of the time. Please ask them about this. Tons of alex has a muddy colour in mixed lighting -- a mishmash of the two other colours rather than a pleasing one.

I see from the video that the stone is moderately included and has silk. Ask them if the inclusions break the surface and if they pose a durability risk.

My advice would be to go with a smaller, higher quality stone but it is your choice if you want to prioritize size. 20k could get you an alex of approx 1.5ct based on Multicolour's pricing which is considered a vendor with fair pricing. This stone is too dark for my taste but it's definitely of high quality.
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/alexandrite/yax742aa/&930512007
Big window on this one but nice colour; I may as well link it: http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/alexandrite/imax0020aa/&930512007

This vendor is typically more pricey than others:
http://www.africagems.com/round-alexandrite-gemstone-52617634.html
http://www.africagems.com/oval-alexandrite-gemstone-56617246.html

4ct alexandrites for price reference (highly trusted seller, even though it's ebay):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alex-On-Fire-Natural-Alexandrite-4-ct-Green-to-Purple-Red-GRS-Certified-/121557418033?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d630031
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Brazil-Alexandrite-Octagon-4-40ct-Gubelin-Certified-Clean-Gem-/121559951045?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4d89a6c5

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones

Sells the same stones as Africa gems for cheaper. That round stone ag has for 26 is listed on here for 20k

And what's nice is you could get the setting from there too, save having to worry about insurance while being set

 

[LoversKites]

Thanks DS for pointing that out and Niel for that link -- the search thing is really messed up on my pc for some reason but I got it to work.

 

[Ecorap]

Lovers kites

thank you for the information and discretion. Its not the cleanest stone, but that doesn't bother me so much. Sadly I need it to have a good surface area for the design I want to make. I have questioned the durability and am told it is fine. the 140k is nice but a little out of my league and I didn't find anything that meets my specs on multicolour. indeed there Isn't much choice of Alex at this level.

Best

 

[Ecorap]

Neil and Diamond seller,

thanks for your input as well. really appreciated. I have bought blue diamonds, star sapphires, rubies, tanzanities but this search is probably the hardest.

I will have a look for the brown light mentioned by kites above. Does anyone have any thoughts on the seller?

thanks again

 

[LoversKites]

Lovers kites

thank you for the information and discretion. Its not the cleanest stone, but that doesn't bother me so much. Sadly I need it to have a good surface area for the design I want to make. I have questioned the durability and am told it is fine. the 140k is nice but a little out of my league and I didn't find anything that meets my specs on multicolour. indeed there Isn't much choice of Alex at this level.

Best

I understand -- everyone has different priorities.

I don't know where you live but be wary of the return policy especially if you don't live in the country the store is in. If there is anything you don't like about it in person, especially since PSers will not be able to give feedback on the store's photography without knowing the vendor (and even so, they're not a popular vendor here), you should be able to return it for a full refund.

And yeah, I posted the 140k one as a price reference

I hope others will have additional advice regarding the stone and all.

 

[LoversKites]

Neil and Diamond seller,

thanks for your input as well. really appreciated. I have bought blue diamonds, star sapphires, rubies, tanzanities but this search is probably the hardest.

I will have a look for the brown light mentioned by kites above. Does anyone have any thoughts on the seller?

thanks again

You'd have to post the seller's name and a link to the stone so that others can tell you. I found those but didn't post them in case you were against that.

 

[Ecorap]

here is the link to the sellers stone http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-74-Carat-Rare-Indian-Alexandrite-with-Strong-100-Color-Change-/331042542336?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d13ac5300 with photos and videos available

any info on the seller or views on the stone given the GIA and IGI reports

thanks all

 

[minousbijoux]

If I were you, I would seriously consider not getting that stone. While they call it transparent, it certainly looks close to opaque with all the inclusions. It would also be a good idea if you could do a search here for that seller, as there has been no real accolades of them as a seller in the several years I've been on this board - at least that I'm aware of. One of the things that has always put me off about this seller is the fact that they amp u the color in their photos and for a while, they were not actually taking photos of the stones on their hands, but taking a photo of the stone and then cutting/pasting it onto fingers. Don't know if they still do this. Anyway, there were enough warning signs that I did not want to risk an overseas purchase from them.

 

[Niel]

I can't speak for LK, but I believe she was posting those 4ct stones to show you how much a good 4ct alexandrite typically costs. This price of this is substantially less, and typically of it were worth more, you can bet they would be charging it.

Also, agree that stone appears opaque, and the white inclusion near the table appears to be visablw to the naked eye.

Alexandrite is expensive. You'll be hard pressed to find a large high quality one for 20k. If you're not looking for a too quality, that's fine, but I fear you might have higher hopes doe this stone than its going to deliver.

 

[minousbijoux]

OP: I just thought of something else I thought to add. Have you seen any alex that you liked in person? I ask this because alex is not a good candidate to judge based on static photos seen online. They are complicated, and moody. They can shift to being dark, they can shift to a confused, muddled color, and if their percent of color change isn't really high, they can just sort of look, well, weird. I would suggest you see a bunch at a high end colored stone dealer, or a gem show, before you commit to one online if you can possibly help it. If not, its not the end of the world, but you may end up learning by buying and returning a few.

 

[GregS]

OP: I just thought of something else I thought to add. Have you seen any alex that you liked in person? I ask this because alex is not a good candidate to judge based on static photos seen online. They are complicated, and moody. They can shift to being dark, they can shift to a confused, muddled color, and if their percent of color change isn't really high, they can just sort of look, well, weird. I would suggest you see a bunch at a high end colored stone dealer, or a gem show, before you commit to one online if you can possibly help it. If not, its not the end of the world, but you may end up learning by buying and returning a few.

I second this, I suggest seeing an Alexandrite in person before taking the plunge. I got my start in gemstone buying with an Alexandrite and I was underwhelmed by it. I kept it and I am glad I did, because the value of it has almost doubled in the past couple years (at least the retail asking price has doubled) but it's not a stone that'll take ones breath away like Paraiba Tourmaline, Mahenge Spinel, Demantoid Garnet, fine Emeralds etc... What I am getting at is I feel that there are other stones out there that possess much stronger visual appeal than Alexandrite.

If I may, what are your plans for this Alexandrite?

From a collectors stand point my opinion of Alexandrite is that it has rarity and durability going for it, visual appeal, not so much. Plus the price has gone crazy. Right now I think Spinel has it, top quality Mahenge Spinel has everything, durability, rarity, visual appeal and prices haven't gone sky high yet.

 

[Marlow]

OP: I just thought of something else I thought to add. Have you seen any alex that you liked in person? I ask this because alex is not a good candidate to judge based on static photos seen online. They are complicated, and moody. They can shift to being dark, they can shift to a confused, muddled color, and if their percent of color change isn't really high, they can just sort of look, well, weird. I would suggest you see a bunch at a high end colored stone dealer, or a gem show, before you commit to one online if you can possibly help it. If not, its not the end of the world, but you may end up learning by buying and returning a few.

I second this, I suggest seeing an Alexandrite in person before taking the plunge. I got my start in gemstone buying with an Alexandrite and I was underwhelmed by it. I kept it and I am glad I did, because the value of it has almost doubled in the past couple years (at least the retail asking price has doubled) but it's not a stone that'll take ones breath away like Paraiba Tourmaline, Mahenge Spinel, Demantoid Garnet, fine Emeralds etc... What I am getting at is I feel that there are other stones out there that possess much stronger visual appeal than Alexandrite.

If I may, what are your plans for this Alexandrite?

From a collectors stand point my opinion of Alexandrite is that it has rarity and durability going for it, visual appeal, not so much. Plus the price has gone crazy. Right now I think Spinel has it, top quality Mahenge Spinel has everything, durability, rarity, visual appeal and prices haven't gone sky high yet.

+1

 

[Ecorap]

Thank you to everyone! apologies if I don't reply personally to you all but I am hugely grateful for your advice. The stone is actually going to be set in an object d'art that I am having made. It will have at least 6ct of diamonds and 12ct of rubies along with tsavorite, all set in rose and yellow gold. I can't tell you the design but the alex will be a central stone within it and I really want an alex in their as its for my wife to celebrate my sons first birthday, he was born in June and his middle name is Alexander - so it tells a really nice story and I am sucker for a good story.

I actually don't mind the inclusion as for the design I need something a little bit imperfect and organic. - I promise I will write back to this board with the full story in June once its made - you may even see it on the red carpet one day

I do have lots of photos of it and the colour change on the hand and they did agree (at my cost to send it to the GIA). the colour change from two labs and on the photos is always 100% so I think I will proceed and see it in person. Sadly I am in a part of the world where I can't get to any reputable dealers.

So I have one final question if I may, how easy is it to return stones if they don't match your expectations?

many many thanks

 

[T L]

So I have one final question if I may, how easy is it to return stones if they don't match your expectations?

many many thanks

It depends on the vendor, and their location as well. That's why you must be very careful from who you buy from, and know their reputation well, especially for expensive gems.

 

[chrono]

If I were you, I would seriously consider not getting that stone. While they call it transparent, it certainly looks close to opaque with all the inclusions. It would also be a good idea if you could do a search here for that seller, as there has been no real accolades of them as a seller in the several years I've been on this board - at least that I'm aware of. One of the things that has always put me off about this seller is the fact that they amp u the color in their photos and for a while, they were not actually taking photos of the stones on their hands, but taking a photo of the stone and then cutting/pasting it onto fingers. Don't know if they still do this. Anyway, there were enough warning signs that I did not want to risk an overseas purchase from them.

+1. I might try buy a cheapie from them but would not risk anything greater than $300.

 

[Ecorap]

stone is being sent so wish me luck ! I will have a strong opinion of the seller one way or the other over the next week...

 

[eastjavaman]

Keep us updated, we would love to see the actual stone in your hand shots

 

[LoversKites]

Keep us updated, we would love to see the actual stone in your hand shots

+1

 

[Ecorap]

Thank you to everyone that helped me on this quest.

I received the stone and whilst it wasn't as clean a colour as in the photo's / video on the sellers website, i was able to replicate that colour change in normal lighting conditions - it goes from a nice emerald green to a Purple red. yes it has inclusions - but these actually give the stone some mystery and give off some great flashes of pink.

Despite my hesitations the seller was actually very easy to deal with and in the end gave me a very very reasonable price for this stone. I would now have no problems recommending them to others given the price point.

The attached photo was taken with an iphone in a room with two lamps (so quite dark). the green was very green but only when in day light (diffused). the colour change was 100% as in the GIA and AGI reports.

Overall I am very happy with this. especially as it is only the centre stone of a major piece jewellery that I am working on.

thanks again and I will eventually post the final piece -but you will have to wait several months for that.

best
R

 

[Ecorap]

Here is another picture, it looks more blue here, but that's the difficulty of photographing Alexandrite

 

[minousbijoux]

Thank you for coming back to share photos and provide feedback. So it sounds like while the stone wasn't exactly as represented in photos, it was nice enough to keep. Did the seller come down from his listed price in order to make the sale, or was a further discount negotiated after you saw the stone in hand? I am happy to hear good things about this seller.