Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

HELP! Which diamond has better value???

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Hi,
I am new to this forum and would greatly appreciate anyone''s advice. I am looking to purchase a diamond and my jeweler has two that I am interested in. Both are EGL certified. One is a D color, 1.77 ct, SI3. The only visible inclusion appears as a teeny tiny black spec on the girdle. It may be able to be hidden or at least camoflouged by the right kind of mounting. I would never have noticed the spot if it weren''t pointed out to me. The second diamond is an I color, 1.64ct, SI1. Both have a lot of brilliance and fire, but of course the D color stone really looks a lot whiter in comparison to the I. It will be in a platinum setting, and I was told that diamonds with lesser color look better with platinum. I was wondering if the D color and the larger size out weigh the clarity when it comes to value?
Here are the specs on both stones:
Diamond #1

Certificate 45087601D Certificate EGL
Weight 1.64 ct.
Shape ROUND BRILLIANT
Color I
Clarity SI1
Measurements 7.55 - 7.44 x 4.69 mm
Depth 62.5
Table 58.0
Crown 14.8 Polish good
Pavilion 43.3 Symmetry Very Good
Girdle MEDIUM TO SL. THICK FACETED Fluorescence None
Polish VERY GOOD Symmetry VERY GOOD
Fluorescence FAINT
Culet NONE
Cut Grade IDEAL PLUS
Lot 25185

Diamond #2


Cert. EGL
Weight 1.77ct.
Shape Round Brilliant
Color D
Clarity SI3
Measurements 7.82 x 7.90
Depth 60.3
Table 59
Polish Good
Symmetry Very Good
Fluorescence None
Cut Grade Premium cut

 

boston_jeff

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
623
Neither?

I cannot believe that the EGL SI3 is eye-clean, and the EGL I color is probably more like J/K. If the SI3 is really eye-clean, then I would pick that one if I had to choose, but I think you can find a better balance.

It is my understanding that a lower-color stone would not look whiter in platinum.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Welcome to PS.

Firstly, which EGL lab graded these diamonds? There are EGL USA, Antwerp, Europe, Israel etc, it is useful to know which one.

Actually Jeff, there are some EGL SI3 and even I1 which are eyeclean, I own one.

The cuts could be tighter on these diamonds at a quick look, but as EGL uses percents for crown and pavillion it is preferable to work with angles as they are more accurate. So by going with your eyes I would take a look at some others to compare before you pull the trigger, don't go by labels such as Ideal Plus etc, they are no guarantee of a well cut diamond. Also your D colour may appraise lower depending and also clarity, it is said by some that some branches of EGL can be softer on grading than other labs. If you really love either of these diamonds then get an independant appraisal to make sure they check out and make the sale final on you being happy with the results of the appraisal, it is well worth $100 or so for peace of mind.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,376
The diamond with a 7.9mm width will look larger, by a bit, than a 7.55mm diameter stone regardless of anything else. There is a physical difference in visible size.

An I color, when GIA or AGS graded, is reliably white enough to look reasonably colorless in a white setting. There is no need for a D color although paying for F or G might be a mid-range approach. The problem is that an EGL I color might show more yellow than a GIA graded one. There is some lack of uniformity of the systems or the use of the same system by these major players.

The D is very much more likely to really be a D or E color, a top colorless stone, but the I is one of those in the problematic zone.

I dislike the SI3 nomenclature. Nearly all SI3 diamonds are I1 GIA range clarity stones. If you don't mind an I1 clarity, then there is no problem, but don't get confused by SI3 meaning much except a code word for I1, maybe a better I1, some might say. I might not agree, but we are only speaking of generalities, not your specific diamond which I have not examined.

A small study we published on Pricescope indicated that occasionally the discount applied to EGL graded diamonds results in a super value diamond that is accidently graded just as if it was a GIA graded stone, yet the discount has still been applied. This makes some EGL graded diamonds better value than others. It is a strange outcome, but makes perfect sense, when one sees the statistics of how these various labs grade.
 

boston_jeff

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
623
hi Lorelei!

I didn''t mean to suggest that no eye-clean SI3''s exist, and you are lucky to have one! I think that your stone is somewhat an exception to the rule, so I would be wary as a newbie deciding that an SI3 is eye-clean without getting a neutral or reputable expert to look at it.
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/28/2007 3:12:10 PM
Author: boston_jeff
hi Lorelei!

I didn't mean to suggest that no eye-clean SI3's exist, and you are lucky to have one! I think that your stone is somewhat an exception to the rule, so I would be wary as a newbie deciding that an SI3 is eye-clean without getting a neutral or reputable expert to look at it.
Hiya Jeff! They are out there, but I was lucky to find an eyeclean I1 of goodly size with EGL
Also as you say, an expert eye is invaluable to make sure the rock checks out.

Kristen if you are looking for a large diamond and budget is important, then one of these might fit the bill if your eyes love what they see. Get that appraisal before commiting.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
My engagement ring and wedding band were stolen and the insurance company made us meet with their replacement jeweler. Those two stones are the only two we liked out of the four he brought. Not sure if he''s willing to show us anymore or look for other stones but if we''re not happy with the final product we don''t have to take it. (so they say)
My original stone was an OEC 1.62ct, M, vs2, set in a platinum setting. He said he would not be able to find a European cut diamond like that and that the new cut diamonds are worth more. Plus he keeps stressing that these diamonds are better than mine was because of the better color and size. Not sure how trustworthy he is because we don''t know him.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
Date: 3/28/2007 3:19:28 PM
Author: coccochanel27
My engagement ring and wedding band were stolen and the insurance company made us meet with their replacement jeweler. Those two stones are the only two we liked out of the four he brought. Not sure if he's willing to show us anymore or look for other stones but if we're not happy with the final product we don't have to take it. (so they say)

My original stone was an OEC 1.62ct, M, vs2, set in a platinum setting. He said he would not be able to find a European cut diamond like that and that the new cut diamonds are worth more. Plus he keeps stressing that these diamonds are better than mine was because of the better color and size. Not sure how trustworthy he is because we don't know him.
The jeweler sounds sketchy. If he was willing to look he could find an OEC, because they ARE out there. The new cuts will look significantly different and probably will be more brilliant but will be a very different look. Not necessarily better, but different. If you really prefer the OEC, hold out for one.

If that is all he offered I would refuse and look elsewhere. But that's just me.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Thanks for your input. The D does have an visible spec but I would have never seen it or noticed it unless it was pointed out to me. It may even be able to hidden by a prong. Does this stone have a higher value than the stone I had? The jeweler says that both of those stones are worth more than what i had. My diamond was an OEC, 1.62 ct, m color, vs2.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
I really don''t mind the newer cuts. i do think they sparkle more. I just want to make sure they are worth more than mine like h''s saying.
 

tangoecho

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
31
Hmm, do you have the option to take the cash and look for the diamond on your own?

I am not an expert on insurance, etc and luckily have not had the problem of losing a diamond so having to file a claim, but if this jeweler is endorsed by the company and you must meet with him first, you can bet they have some sort of arrangement between the two. Kind of like when you wreck your car. If you go to an Insurance companies "preferred body shop" do the work it means less hassle to most parties, but it does not necessarily mean you are getting the work done as well or in the end less expensively than somewhere else. I''m sure in the long run, it costs the company less money overall to have relationships with preferred providers and benefits the provider since they are getting business. But it''s not always necessarily the best option for the person with the wrecked car.

If you aren''t in love with either of these diamonds (which it seems you aren''t since you are asking about them here), I would ask him to find you more to look at or go elsewhere.

Good luck!
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Kristen,

Can you get that crown & pavilion data, if even % again, for option 2? 2.6 HCA for #1 could be better, but is not bad. As EGL goes, USA is good.
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
14,167
"Worth" is all in the eye of the beholder. The only way to find out is to price some OEC's with similar specs as yours against the price of these new stones. If it were me, I would hold out for a slightly better clarity and sacrifice a bit of size. But that is just me. If the SI3 is really eyeclean other than the speck, it might be ok, but I would be really bothered by the black inclusion if it couldn't be covered.

For example, here is an OEC with almost identical specs to your old stone:

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/invpage.html

Compare that price to what the list price is for one of the stones the jeweler is trying to sell you. You can use the pricescope search engine to look. That will tell you whether it is "worth" more.

ETA: Weird...exactly like your old stone. I wonder if it could be it???
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Thanks Tango. I have tried to get the cash instead, but they are saying that I have to give him the opportunity to replace it. If in the end we''re not happy they say we don''t have to take the ring. The replacement company is called Claimlink. This particular jeweler owns his own store and is the claimlink jeweler for my area. However his customer service skills leave a lot to be desired. He came to our house at 6:00 pm (which I thought kinda odd) and only stayed for an hour because he had other appts. He seemed very annoyed that I did not make a decision last night. Who can make that kind of decision in an hour? Also on the phone prior to our appt.we told him that my setting was made by Somos. He said he would have the Somos catalog. When he got here last night he only brought samples of Martin Flyer settings. When we questioned about the Somos he said he''s not familiar with them but would look into it. He then proceded to say that if we went with a Martin Flyer setting (which are beautiful don''t get me wrong) he would give us a setting worth more than what i had in order to "save him the headache". Do you think this is too good to be true??
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Unfortunately he''s not giving me any exact prices for the stones since they are supposed to be "comparible" to my stone. I am waiting on the rest of the EGL report for the second stone crown, pavillion, etc. It wasn''t available online but the jeweler is supposed to send it me by Friday. Thanks to everyone for their input. We just feel like we''re getting "HOSED"!
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
My gut says, RUN . . . run like the wind.
Something about this is screaming don''t do it. What is the appraisal value?
Tell him you want an OEC, if you really want one because they are out there. You are not obligated to jump at the 4 diamonds he shows you. Sounds like he finds his job (finding you a diamond you like) to be a headache and that just doesn''t sit well with me.
I would hold out for something with a slightly higher clarity. If the lower color didn''t bother you in your OEC, well . . . you might not be color sensitive but the clarity thing, you should really consider it and don''t settle because he is rushing you. Just my personal opinion.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
I agree hikerchick. I mean I am more color sensitive than anything i think. Both the 1.64 ct I and the 1.77 ct D are much better color than what i had. Although i ALWAYS got tons of compliments on my 1.62 ct OEC M colored stone.
 

tangoecho

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
31
Date: 3/28/2007 3:51:28 PM
Author: coccochanel27
Thanks Tango. I have tried to get the cash instead, but they are saying that I have to give him the opportunity to replace it. If in the end we''re not happy they say we don''t have to take the ring. The replacement company is called Claimlink. This particular jeweler owns his own store and is the claimlink jeweler for my area. However his customer service skills leave a lot to be desired. He came to our house at 6:00 pm (which I thought kinda odd) and only stayed for an hour because he had other appts. He seemed very annoyed that I did not make a decision last night. Who can make that kind of decision in an hour? Also on the phone prior to our appt.we told him that my setting was made by Somos. He said he would have the Somos catalog. When he got here last night he only brought samples of Martin Flyer settings. When we questioned about the Somos he said he''s not familiar with them but would look into it. He then proceded to say that if we went with a Martin Flyer setting (which are beautiful don''t get me wrong) he would give us a setting worth more than what i had in order to ''save him the headache''. Do you think this is too good to be true??
"save him the headache" - that pretty much says it all to me.
He probably brought you diamonds that he already had on hand, trying to push settings he already has rather than try to find a product that meets YOUR needs. In other words, he doesn''t seem to want to put any effort into it and hopes you''ll take his word (and product) without any problem.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Was your OEC graded by a lab and if so which lab?
Do you know what the appraisal value was for your OEC?
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Yes Tangoecho....we feel the same way. Unfortunately I just talked to the insurance adjuster again and she basically said we have to deal with him and see what he can do. So much for "you''re in good hands with allstate"!!!
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Well my ring was appraised at $8,160 in 1999. That includes the center stone and the setting which was platinum , made by a company called Somos. It''s total carat weight was approx. .24 ct.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
No it was not graded. It was an estate peice and we had it appraised by two seperate independent appraisers.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Date: 3/28/2007 4:26:21 PM
Author: coccochanel27
Well my ring was appraised at $8,160 in 1999. That includes the center stone and the setting which was platinum , made by a company called Somos. It''s total carat weight was approx. .24 ct.
Well unfortunately, that amount isn''t going to get you a diamond as big as the ones he is offering you, particularly with the setting included and with a better color than J or K . . .

If you want to stay in that size range, my suggestion would be to work with him on this. First off I would tell him that you want your Somos setting and don''t want to settle (unless you do want to get something he has that you like). Next, I would tell him you are uncomfortable dropping below a VS2 and see if he can find you a VS2 you can be happy with. Or atleast an SI1 that is GIA or AGS graded. Finally, make sure whatever you do choose that you get what YOU WANT . . . not what he tries to shove down your throat.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Thanks. Well one option was a 1.64ct, I colored, SI1, I may go with that, but the D color and the size of the flawed stone had me puzzled. Both stones really did shine a lot and had nice cuts. I am going to ask him to find more for me to look at but if those are my only choices I wanted to know which one the majority thinks i should chose.
 

Fly Girl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
7,312
I recently lost my diamond ring (fortunately I found it again!), so I went through the insurance adjustment process. I would not accept either of those diamonds if you don''t like them, and it sure sounds like you don''t. I would hold out for a stone of the same cut, quality and size that you had. You DO NOT have to make this easy for the jeweler!!! You had a unique ring, and you shouldn''t end up with a plain ole mall ring. The insurance adjuster will give in if the jeweler can''t satisfy you, but it will take several iterations, so hang in there. Remember, they insured your ring in the first place, and you paid them premiums for the coverage, so they need to come through for you now.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Exactly we plan on NOT making this easy for them. And this just the engagement ring...I still have to go through replacing the wedding band which was an estate piece!
 

mrssalvo

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 3, 2005
Messages
19,132
cocco, what type of documentation did you give to Allstate? I had an OEC insured with them and a replacement policy. well, they couldn't replace my OEC b/c there just aren't many around with the specs mine had so they cashed me out for the value of my stone, not the amount I had it insured for (which was silly on my part to insure the inflated value) anyway, there is a good chance if you put your foot down to just get them to cash out on the wedding band anyway, since it can't be replaced. Laney (you can search her name to find her thread) also had her ring insured with Allstate. she bought her stone from Goodoldgold and had pages included on the insurance policy with every last detail of her stone. when her stone was damaged they tried to find a replacement, couldn't find anything acceptable or close and cashed her out as well.

it's ok to insure with homeowners policy's but you must have a full documention or else they will replace with whatever they want. G VS 1 carat round isn't going to be enough.

you've got a tough case b/c your original stone wasn't certified to begin with and now you want them to replace it with and ideal cut. probably not going to happen. If I were you, I'd at least work the cash out option, it will be less than you insured for but at least you'd have the cash and could purchase from whomever you wanted. good luck.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
IF and only IF the inclusion doesn''t bother you AND if the crown and pavilion angles aren''t hideous, I would choose the D color diamond, as it is bigger and has a better color. Does the inclusion bother you? Is it black or white, is it under the table or off to the side? I thought I heard you say both diamonds looked good, but others are interpreting your question as saying you don''t like either diamond? Do you like the diamonds you are comparing? Did you get a chance to see them in different lighting? Did they sparkle? Sorry for all the question, just trying to get a grasp on if you don''t like the diamonds or are just annoyed with the jeweler (which is totally understandable). Also, if you are thinking of cashing out, do a search for what your money will get you and take the setting into account also.
 

coccochanel27

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
27
Yes i liked both the diamonds. They both are a lot better color than the one I had which is a plus and they seemed to really sparkle a lot more than my OEC but that is to be expected. I just am leary because he showed me stones so different from what I had I figured there must be some catch. The tables on both stones looked to me to be well proportioned. The first stone he showed us was an H 1.62 with a huge table. We rejected that one right away. The inclusion on the D is off the table pretty close to the end of the girdle.
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top