HELP!!! What do I do!?!?!

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/27/2007 6:05:19 PM
Author: suemann
John,

Not sure why it’s in the notes. I do agree though that it very well could have been the warranty on the setting

Don''t forget everybody, she has agreed that it may be her own missunderstanding. It makes sense that, given that she did missunderstand, that she would want to try to figure out what actually happened. If she just gave up and said "oh you are right, you never said anything about a warranty" that would be pretty foolish wouldn''t it? But at the same time she isn''t jumping up and down screaming saying it is white flashes fault. She admits she may be at fault, but is just trying to find out for sure.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/27/2007 7:55:15 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 9/27/2007 7:48:24 PM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards


Well, don't forget, most of the people who bought diamonds in-store, chipped it and then sucessfully had it replaced probably aren't members of PS

but on the other hand, if the company didn't honor the warranty probably just about 100% of those people would wind up one lonely night searching online for some comfort or weapons to bring back with them--and they would of course end up on PS, since its clearly the best place online to talk about diamonds. So, sure there are a few, but there aren't very many people complaining about stores not honoring their insurance policy.


That is true.



The shortage of such complaints makes me think those policies are upheld fairly frequently.


That...made me snort with hysterical gales of laughter. But keep believing that - cuz your world is a better place than the one I live in. ROFL.

Well, I will agree that when they can get out of it many do, most of the time probably because people didn't maintain the conditions on their end--check ups etc. I am not a complete fool (though I am pretty gullible), obviously alot of companies will try to get out of it, but I doubt it is as bad as people suggest on here, or we would probably be hearing alot more complaints than we do.

 

[jpk1102]

Having worked in the insurance industry for a number of years, perhaps it would be of benefit to clarify the types of coverage afforded to jewelry under a regular homeowner''s policy - bear in mind, the amount may change from state to state, but the coverage is pretty much the same.

Under a homeowner''s policy, the ring would be covered for insured perils: fire, theft, wind, hail, sudden water leakage (not flood), etc. This coverage is normally limited to $2,500 (I''ve worked in CT, CA and TX and it was all the same.). The coverage under your homeower''s policy DOES NOT cover mysterious disappearance - loss of the ring or stone from and unknown time or place, or for breakage of the diamond.

That is why a FLOATER POLICY is needed for jewelry. This policy is based on current appraisal (a note to get your jewelry appraised at least every 5 years). This "Jewelry Floater" is ALL RISK coverage, which means simply, that it covers all risk of loss. There are a few exclusions, check for your state.

My marquise diamond cracked and fell out of the setting (mysterious disappearance) - the prongs were intact and had no damage. My insurance company replaced the stone with like quality under my specific jewelry floater policy.

I am so sorry for your loss, but I have to side with Whiteflash here......a diamond is manufacturerd by Mother Nature, and she has no warranty. Whiteflash set the diamond and there was no problem for two years. Hitting a diamond with an inclusion just right can cause damage, and protecting the diamond is your responsiblilty, not Whiteflash''s.

If you thought the jewelry floater was too expensive, you could have "shopped" the coverage with other insurers to get more competitive rates. I also question the $25,000 appraisal, but whether right or wrong, it could have been insured on a floater policy for that amount, if so appraised. As mentioned by others, it would have cost under $300 A YEAR to do so.

Lesson to all of us, check your coverage.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/27/2007 7:21:07 PM
Author: FireGoddess
'Lifetime Warranty

Every piece of jewelry we produce meets our strict standards for quality control. Though warranted, the normal examination period is an ideal time for you to become assured of the quality of the workmanship.

If you need to return an item after your purchase is complete it will be fully inspected. If it is found to be defective due to manufacturing we will cover the charges. However, if work is required due to wear and tear or after the item has been worked on by an outside jeweler (other than Whiteflash) you may incur a charge for the repair and shipping.

Work by an outside jeweler will void the lifetime warranty.'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I copied this from the link above that suemann posted. This is from WF's website. Please excuse me if it was inappropriate to copy/paste the actual text here.


There is no reference to stones in their statement - only jewelry pieces, manufacturing, work, etc.


Suemann, I'm sorry for your problems - and if the stone had spontaneously combusted, believe me, I'd be in your corner here.

EXACTLY. she is just trying to gather information to see if she is in the right or wrong, and here she presented evidence AGAINST HERSELF. Its looks to me as if she was showing us where her misunderstanding may have originated from, not trying to defend her original position, and I suspect that whoever this sales associate was may in fact have said some confusing or aggressive things in attempting to get a sale. Every business has them you know?

and don't forget guys/ladies, she obviously hasn't spent as many hours as all of us studying about diamonds, I know plenty of relatives of my own who would be in the same boat...my brother included. They all read the "warranty" of life time replacements at the stores they purchased, none of them read the rules about maintenance, and just about everyone of them things of diamonds as indestructible...so I say we all have a little more understanding, its going to be gut wrenching to fork over another 8.5k I am sure...and it looks like she is beginning to except her own misunderstanding, if it wasn't a poorly played sales pitch by some sales associate.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

The thing about this is, you pay DEARLY to have that "warranty" at a regular jeweler! It''s not like it''s free! When I was trying to decide what size diamond studs I wanted, I went to some stores like Helzberg that had such a warranty. They had a hearts and arrows diamond in the size that I was considering for an earring, and I will tell you that it was TWICE as much as the stones I ended up buying at WF!!! Then I still would have had to get insurance. So there is no advantage to the warranty. It does not cover all losses, and as Deco said, they explained to me about the 6 month check-ups. I knew I''d never keep up with that, and that made the warranty totally useless! They know they elminate so many people with the fine print. So anyone should understand that since you have to have insurance anyway, why would you EVER buy an overpriced diamond with a very limited warranty?

For that matter, if WF had set the diamond and the stone cracked 2 years later, they are STILL not responsible for the damage!

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/27/2007 8:09:18 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
The thing about this is, you pay DEARLY to have that 'warranty' at a regular jeweler! It's not like it's free! When I was trying to decide what size diamond studs I wanted, I went to some stores like Helzberg that had such a warranty. They had a hearts and arrows diamond in the size that I was considering for an earring, and I will tell you that it was TWICE as much as the stones I ended up buying at WF!!! Then I still would have had to get insurance. So there is no advantage to the warranty. It does not cover all losses, and as Deco said, they explained to me about the 6 month check-ups. I knew I'd never keep up with that, and that made the warranty totally useless! They know they eliminate so many people with the fine print. So anyone should understand that since you have to have insurance anyway, why would you EVER buy an overpriced diamond with a very limited warranty?


For that matter, if WF had set the diamond and the stone cracked 2 years later, they are STILL not responsible for the damage!

That is true enough, but come on guys, its a reasonable misunderstanding if she did alot of in-store shopping and didn't spend the hours studying and learning about all of this as we have, and then some sales associate threw out a sales pitch about warranties, or even if it was totally her own confusion, its still an understandable mistake, and nobody got hurt but her.

And remember, if helzberg had set the diamond and all the proper maintenance was taken and it cracked two years later they WOULD have been responsible. So, I just want to say, I can understand, though clearly she was mistaken but that was the type of "warranty" (insurance) that she was confusing it with, so I say lets cut her some slack here...

 

[deegee]

I feel so bad for you for breaking your stone. I know it is just sickening to look down and see the crack. I broke my original stone (a marquise) this past winter, and wore it cracked until my husband convinced me to get a new one a few months ago. My original stone wasn''t insured either. Now that I know diamonds can crack, I made sure I had insurance on my new ring (diamond from Whiteflash and setting from a local jeweler) the day I brought it home. I thought my appraisal was fair . . . a few thousand more than the total cost of the ring. My insurance is more than reasonable at around $200 per year. I learned my lesson the hard way and I won''t make the same mistake again!

 

[Beacon]

What a bad, sad thing to happen to your stone. I am really sorry about that. I think Gypsy makes some excellent points about Wf and their liablility, which to my way of seeing it, they have no liability.

Hope you can make the best of a bad situation and either recut your stone or go find a new, fabulous one!

All this story does is remind us all what a good idea insurance is and how we should have it. I know what you mean about the appraisal issue, but you could have mentioned to your appraiser who did the work that you wanted an insurance apprasial, and you wanted a realistic one. They could most likely have given you the appraisal you wanted.

BTW, what insurer wanted $250/ to insure your stone? I have never, ever heard of anything like that - the premium is astronomical, unless you live in a war zone or have had a jillion claims in the past. Definitely something wrong with that number.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 9/27/2007 8:16:51 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 9/27/2007 8:09:18 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
The thing about this is, you pay DEARLY to have that 'warranty' at a regular jeweler! It's not like it's free! When I was trying to decide what size diamond studs I wanted, I went to some stores like Helzberg that had such a warranty. They had a hearts and arrows diamond in the size that I was considering for an earring, and I will tell you that it was TWICE as much as the stones I ended up buying at WF!!! Then I still would have had to get insurance. So there is no advantage to the warranty. It does not cover all losses, and as Deco said, they explained to me about the 6 month check-ups. I knew I'd never keep up with that, and that made the warranty totally useless! They know they eliminate so many people with the fine print. So anyone should understand that since you have to have insurance anyway, why would you EVER buy an overpriced diamond with a very limited warranty?


For that matter, if WF had set the diamond and the stone cracked 2 years later, they are STILL not responsible for the damage!

That is true enough, but come on guys, its a reasonable misunderstanding if she did alot of in-store shopping and didn't spend the hours studying and learning about all of this as we have, and then some sales associate threw out a sales pitch about warranties, or even if it was totally her own confusion, its still an understandable mistake, and nobody got hurt but her.

And remember, if helzberg had set the diamond and all the proper maintenance was taken and it cracked two years later they WOULD have been responsible. So, I just want to say, I can understand, though clearly she was mistaken but that was the type of 'warranty' (insurance) that she was confusing it with, so I say lets cut her some slack here...

I don't think it's reasonable, WHFSR, sorry.

If I spent or my fiance spent 8.5K on something I wouldn't assume. I would check. I would question if I didn't understand something. But that's me. Maybe I'm not a good example of a 'reasonable person' though.

But as an observer, I would REALLY have expected a 'reasonable person' to have stopped and really thought about ONE of the following:

1) The appraisal is almost three time's the stone's worth. I wonder why that is? Maybe I should call my appraiser and ask his reasoning for the high amount. Especially since it's driving up my insurance premium. Or maybe I should get a second opinion on this diamond's/ rings worth. Nothing formal. Maybe just go to the jewelry store or on the net and see what similar rings sell for. What does 25K buy me? What does 9K buy me?

2) WOW, my insurance premiums are REALLY HIGH. I've seen those Geico (insert insurance company's name here) commercials, there are probably other insurance company's out there, maybe, BEFORE I CANCEL, I should check their rates.

3) What exactly is WF's warranty, that's where my diamond was bought, and it doesn't matter what another vendor's warranty is, I need to check to see what WF's warranty REALLY is before I cancel my policy.

Any ONE of those, and I would say 'reasonable person' .... and, any one of those, might have averted this. You can't go through life just accepting and assuming, and not questioning when little flags are raised. That, to me, is an unreasonable person. And an unreasonable person would be one who would do none of the preceding, then try to hold the vendor who sold them a loose stone accountable for what is REALLY a result of thier own lack of foresight and thought. So yes, I think the OP is unreasonable. Sorry.

 

[decodelighted]

The more I think about it the more outlandish it seems: $250/a MONTH to insure a $25,000 stone??? (Not even considering the inflated appraisal amount) That''s a LEASED CAR PAYMENT! I really think this was a misunderstanding ... in a series of misunderstandings ...(loose stone warranty vs. jewelry warranty, appraisal amount smell test, home owners ins. refusal, independent insurance rates outlandish) and the common denominator in ALL of them is the Original Poster.

I *do* think it''s an unfortunate lesson re: doing thorough research, taking nothing for granted, getting everything in writing.

We all have risk unless we buy IF stones, insure them to the hilt, and follow a rigorous inspection/re-appraisal schedule. **shrug**

 

[FireGoddess]

Anyone else remember THIS? I surely will never, ever forget. And quite informative regarding insurance and the like, for anyone interested in some older PS reading material.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/27/2007 7:21:07 PM
Author: FireGoddess


Suemann, I''m sorry for your problems - and if the stone had spontaneously combusted, believe me, I''d be in your corner here.

You would? Frankly, if that thing spontaneously combusted, I''d be outta here, that''s just spooky.

 

[FireGoddess]

Date: 9/27/2007 9:11:29 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 9/27/2007 7:21:07 PM
Author: FireGoddess



Suemann, I''m sorry for your problems - and if the stone had spontaneously combusted, believe me, I''d be in your corner here.

You would? Frankly, if that thing spontaneously combusted, I''d be outta here, that''s just spooky.

My freak out would be mitigated by my realization that I was now diamond-less.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/27/2007 9:16:46 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 9/27/2007 9:11:29 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 9/27/2007 7:21:07 PM
Author: FireGoddess




Suemann, I''m sorry for your problems - and if the stone had spontaneously combusted, believe me, I''d be in your corner here.

You would? Frankly, if that thing spontaneously combusted, I''d be outta here, that''s just spooky.

My freak out would be mitigated by my realization that I was now diamond-less.

 

[Gypsy]

Date: 9/27/2007 8:16:51 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 9/27/2007 8:09:18 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
The thing about this is, you pay DEARLY to have that 'warranty' at a regular jeweler! It's not like it's free! When I was trying to decide what size diamond studs I wanted, I went to some stores like Helzberg that had such a warranty. They had a hearts and arrows diamond in the size that I was considering for an earring, and I will tell you that it was TWICE as much as the stones I ended up buying at WF!!! Then I still would have had to get insurance. So there is no advantage to the warranty. It does not cover all losses, and as Deco said, they explained to me about the 6 month check-ups. I knew I'd never keep up with that, and that made the warranty totally useless! They know they eliminate so many people with the fine print. So anyone should understand that since you have to have insurance anyway, why would you EVER buy an overpriced diamond with a very limited warranty?


For that matter, if WF had set the diamond and the stone cracked 2 years later, they are STILL not responsible for the damage!

That is true enough, but come on guys, its a reasonable misunderstanding if she did alot of in-store shopping and didn't spend the hours studying and learning about all of this as we have, and then some sales associate threw out a sales pitch about warranties, or even if it was totally her own confusion, its still an understandable mistake, and nobody got hurt but her.

And remember, if helzberg had set the diamond and all the proper maintenance was taken and it cracked two years later they WOULD have been responsible. So, I just want to say, I can understand, though clearly she was mistaken but that was the type of 'warranty' (insurance) that she was confusing it with, so I say lets cut her some slack here...

I just thought of something... but If you bought a lose diamond from Bailey Banks and Biddle, telling them you were going to take that diamond to... Helzberg to set it. Do you think that the additional maintenence plan you pay for or even their straight warranty would cover that loose stone? I don't think so. Or that Helzberg would insure the whole ring just because you bought the setting from them? I think their warranties only apply to complete rings that you buy from them. That's just from my recollection, looking at BMs like that. But I challenge you WHFSR to call Helberg or whoever, and give them the fact pattern you see here, would their warranty cover that LOOSE stone? I don't think so. I really don't. But I'd be interested in what you find out.

 

[KtIceRN]

I just wanted to say that I bought my original ering diamond from WF and had it set by a 3rd party. About 2 years later my husband dropped my ring and my diamond sustained a large chip. Now granted I had insurance, but at no point did it ever even cross my mind that WF would be responsible. It is just ludicrous that you would think that. Diamonds are a natural material with flaws. They are not indestructible and things do happen. If it happened when WF was setting your stone you bet they would replace it. But it didn''t, you have had it a long time and it was set by someone else.

We spent 8.5K on my original stone and I tell you that I did a ton or research before hand on how to protect our investment. I could not see just assuming or not knowing for sure that my diamond was covered for any problems.

You have had that stone for over 2 years. It was not chipped when you got it or when you had the ring appraised so therefore unfortunately it is your problem.

As far as the warranty you can get from B&M''s you really do have to jump through hoops to keep up with it and there is no forgiving if you miss one of those checks and something happens. They just say too bad your problem...see ya! That is not service that is a ploy to get you to buy their diamonds and them screw you over in the long run.

I have to commend WF for all they have done for you with this. Most jewelers would just say not our problem go talk to someone who cares and not deal with you. WF has offered to help you in anyway that they can within their policies. They have even been very kind to you even though you have come here and said some not so nice things. They are a great company tot work with and I hope in the end you do realize that.

Believe me I can feel you pain and anger as I have had a chipped stone and I wish you luck in replacing your stone.

KT

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/27/2007 6:40:27 PM
Author: suemann

I understand your Volkswagon analogy, I just think it misses the point. Volkswagon repairs items under a warranty when they are due to a product defect. If my crack was due to an imperfection or error on the part of whiteflash or their distributor, I would hope it would be corrected by them. I am taking it to an independent jeweler here in town to get his opinion on the ring and what could have caused this. If it was in fact something on my end, and it''s clear there was no fault on the part of whiteflash, I would believe it. But I want to hear it from him first.

Suemann, I''m so sorry for this stressful situation. I remember clearly when I got my first diamond and didn''t know any better, my heart dropped to my ankles when I noted what I thought was a crack in my stone. Turns out it was just the girdle reflection, but I still clearly remember how emotional it felt in those five minutes when I thought my stone was broken, and I feel badly that you''re feeling that now, too.

I have to chime in here, because there''s something I think you''re missing in your ''product defect'' scenario. A product defect is when a product doesn''t perform as intended......so in the case of the VW example, you expect that the transmission on a fairly new car wouldn''t fail. If it does, it can only be attributed to a defect in workmanship or a faulty part, and so they replace it.

Diamonds aren''t "manufactured" or "built", as you suggest. They are fashioned out of materials that come from the earth. Cutters work a stone to bring out its most optimum beauty, but they don''t alter the properties of the rough in doing so, so it''s not quite the same as "VW built (made) this head gasket, and it had a defect and failed."

Also, defects aren''t typically apparent at time of sale, unlike inclusions in a diamond. Beyond that, I believe there are very few inclusions that have the potential to compromise the structure of a diamond. A feather breaking the surface of the diamond would be one such example. But nearly all diamonds have inclusions, and the greatest majority of them don''t crack. It''s not reasonable to think that inclusions in a diamond are the reason for subsequent damage.

 

[aljdewey]

I''ve only read through the first half of this thread so far, so maybe it comes later, but it seems nobody has thought about two very big points.

1. The ring was appraised (and since she said ring, it makes sense it was done after the diamond was set and the piece complete). Had the diamond been cracked at that point, it surely would have been caught during the appraisal. It''s presently visible to the naked eye (her coworkers are able to see it), so it''s hard to imagine how it would have been missed under magnification during appraisal.

2. Suemann also said in her opening post "I am so careful with it, it''s become a running joke to friends and family. I take tremendously good care of my ring. I clean and inspect it often. I have the setting checked every six months for loose stones."

From that, it stands to reason that if the crack had been there previously, it would have been observed previously either by Suemann (who looks at it often and found the crack herself) or by whoever''s checking her prongs bi-annually.

SOMETHING had to have happened to it, and it''s entirely possible that it happened without Suemann''s awareness of a particularly rough instance. My girlfriend just had her ring reset from a 6-prong solitaire setting. She can''t remember any kind of signifcant knock to her ring, and yet there was only ONE of the 3 remaining prongs on the top half of the stone still in place!

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/27/2007 7:44:52 PM
Author: suemann
I got insurance because I was worried about the ring getting lost or stolen. I''ve said that several times here.

I heard that very clearly when you said it, and I believe that''s why you insured it.

I think, too, that it never occurred to you that a diamond could sustain damage. Likely influenced by DeBeers marketing that "a diamond is forever", you didn''t realize that there was a need to worry about damage.

That''s unfortunate, and it''s an expensive lesson that I''m sure will benefit you when you are making decisions about how to insure your new stone.

PS: I am surprised that people interpret that "diamond is forever" mantra to be some statement about the durability of a stone. I''ve always taken it to mean that it''s because ''she''ll wear it forver''. Interesting.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/27/2007 7:48:24 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

Date: 9/27/2007 7:13:50 PM
Author: FireGoddess

Date: 9/27/2007 6:49:41 PM

Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

On the Volkswagon analogy--it doesn''t really work guys. Like the jewelery store that sold her the setting said--replacing diamonds that crack, chip, etc is common practice. We don''t see it online very often as it is part of why we have such reduced prices, but it is VERY common.

Really? I''d love to see some real examples (ETA: and I don''t mean of stores that offer a stone warranty, I mean examples of stores that offer a stone warranty and ACTUALLY HONORED IT). As a matter of fact, in my several YEARS on this board I have seen several threads with respect to consumers that bought stones at B&M stores where there was a ''lifetime warranty'' on the ring and stone, only to have the stone chip, and the store balk at exchanging ANYthing, particularly the stone.


IF a setter chips the stone, yes, they should be liable for it. But otherwise? There is no way, after 2 years of wearing a ring, and it gets cracked, that anyone should be paying for it except for an insurance policy, or the uninsured customer. And I AM A customer. I FEEL for the OP. But this line of reasoning that the vendor is responsible 2 years later is...preposterous to me.

Well, don''t forget, most of the people who bought diamonds in-store, chipped it and then sucessfully had it replaced probably aren''t members of PS

but on the other hand, if the company didn''t honor the warranty probably just about 100% of those people would wind up one lonely night searching online for some comfort or weapons to bring back with them--and they would of course end up on PS, since its clearly the best place online to talk about diamonds. So, sure there are a few, but there aren''t very many people complaining about stores not honoring their insurance policy. The shortage of such complaints makes me think those policies are upheld fairly frequently.

WHFSR, with all due respect, you would do yourself a service if you''d try to THINK less. It seems to lead you down erroneous paths.

I''ve had SEVERAL friends own jewelry from the usual chain store suspects, and before finding PS, I did myself too. So, I can say WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the ''warranty'' most stores offer has to do with replacing the stones if they fall out of the settings. FURTHER, that warranty requires you to schlepp to their store every 6 months to have your prongs checked.

You''re required to bring in the ''service'' sheet and have it initialled every six months to prove you''ve met the conditions. If you don''t meet them, you void that warranty. I KNOW because a friend of mine years ago lost her stone from the setting. She went to the jeweler and was denied a replacement because she hadn''t had the required inspections, so the warranty was voided.

I''d CHALLENGE you to produce evidence of a store that claims to warranty FOR DAMAGE any loose stones they sell. Lest you be confused by that, I''m not talking about the guarantee that your diamond will appraise within a grade of color/clarity, but an actual warranty that says "if this stone ever chips, cracks, or otherwise incurs damage, we will replace it at our cost."

That project oughta keep you busy for the next month or two.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/27/2007 7:50:05 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards


NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS ONLY FOR ALJ, EVERYBODY ELSE FEEL FREE TO IGNORE THIS POST:

Alj, I am going to try to keep cool here, but i really wish you would stop attacking me as you have been doing in so many recent post (for anyone who hasn''t noticed, don''t feel any need to respond. If you look back up at that post there are a few things to notice.

WHFSR, I''m not attacking you. I''m responding to information you keep putting out there that is usually FACTUALLY incorrect, broadly assumptive, and misleading. You make sweeping generalizations that aren''t correct, and it''s been pointed out to you by SEVERAL people, not just me.

If you insist on doing it, I absolutely WILL continue to correct your misinformation.......because I''d hate for someone who doesn''t realize you''re ill-informed to rely on the misinformation you''re providing.


1) Everything that was said had been said before. No, actually, it wasn''t. You suggested that the claims poster was trying to attack her (not true) and that the diamond wasn''t worth $25K just because she said so (which it WASN''T....it was appraised for $25K.)


2) there was nothing constructive or useful as to what to do next. A) There is NO requirement that every post has to suggest a possible resolution to the problem. To me, the ''what to do next'' seems pretty evident......learn from the experience, replace the stone, and insure it this time. ....all of which HAD been said already by others, so no need to repeat it.


3) the insulting implications were obvious. You might need a quick lesson on understanding implications. Take a moment and look at some of his phrases and terminology, I am going to help you out for a minute.

a) it is very curt, to the point, no words of consideration or condolences made.

b) ''You bought a ring for $8500 and want to insure it for $25,000, why?
Pay special attention to ''why?'' Do you honestly think he is asking a question? I don''t think so.

That''s becuase you don''t GET IT. He''s asking her why she wants to overinsure because HE KNOW being in the insurance industry that she won''t get paid for that amount.

If it is rhetorical then we can safely assume that he is suggesting that she should have known it was too much and that he felt that she was ridiculous for wanting to insure a ring for so much more than what she paid.

No, WE can''t assume that.....YOU assume that (as you assume so many OTHER things with NO knowledge to back them up). He''s not suggesting that she SHOULD have known....in fact, he seems to suggest that her appraiser overestimated it, and that he didn''t do her a good service in doing so, and he''s trying to help her understand there''s no benefit to her in doing that.....NOT chiding her for not already knowing it.

Now you tell me Alj, in what way does that help solve anything at all? In what way does that comfort her or help her prepare for the future

It helps her understand how insurance actually works (from someone likely in the industry as his username is claims guy) so she''ll be better informed going forward and help her to avoid this instance again.

or the next step of what to do or add on to what had already been said. In fact, it was either a genuine question or he was contributing nothing, and basically implying she was an idiot. It does in fact sound like he is mocking her.

Not to anyone else but you....which again goes back to my consistent theme to you that you are well-intentioned but way misinformed, and you assume far beyond what you read.

C) ''you are wasting your money by over insuring the ring

Here we have a point that would be well taken 1 1/2 years ago, or even a month ago. But lets think about the facts: the diamond is already cracked, and it was not insured. So given that, exactly how do you think that telling her that she was ''wasting her money'', after mocking her with a nice ''why'' , is going to help? It doesn''t. It doesn''t offer any help, any condolences, or create anything productive at all. The only thing it could do is obvious--makes her feel guilty and all around worse.

You completely missed the point. The point is ''if the ring is worth 8500, there''s no point in paying the higher premium to insure it at $25K because you won''t recoup $25K in the event of loss. He''s telling her to only insure a stone for the price paid (or slightly more) to SAVE her premium money.

D)''Why would a vendor sell you a ring for $8500 if it is worth $25,000, they won''t.''

Why do you, Alj, think he felt the need to tell her that? Do you think he was genuinely concerned that she didn''t realize and so he was trying to help out? Hell no. She knew the facts--the appraisal was inflated. She even said that she knew that most appraisals were about twice the actual value (which is quite common, mine was 2X actually) But regardless of whether she had ever said that or not in this line he was CLEARLY suggesting that she was blind to the obvious. So what we have here is a comment meant to degrade and insult her yet again. Why did he feel the need to tell her? If not to genuinely teach her something new, He was obviously implying that she couldn''t figure it out for herself, and in implying that he was implying that she was stupid.

No, he''s implying that the appraiser overappraised the ring.....which happens, because some people feel as though they "did well" if they got a $25K ring for $8500. My local jeweler is having a 60% off sale this weekend.....and that''s to make someone who isn''t well educated about diamond prices feel like they got a fabulous deal on a stone because he got "60% off". They (jewelers) know he''s not informed enough to know that a decent, 1 ct. H, SI1 stone should run around $6500, so they''ll mark the tag price at $19K and discount it 60%, and the guy will think he got a STEAL at $8000.....when in fact, he still overpaid for the ring. Happens ALL the time.


We have a total of THREE LINES that consist of three primary elements: Mocking her, making her feel guilty, and calling her stupid. Note what it lacked: not a single mention of condolence or understanding for her feelings, not a word offering any new information than what had already been previously, and not a word offering any adivce for what to do next.

That is what I call flaming.


So please, learn how to read the implications of what people wrote and pay more attention to they actually said--and what they didn''t say--before you start jumping down my throat ok?

Respectfully, WHFSR, it is you that seems to have a problem reading what''s written.....and that probably contributes to much of the misinformation you''ve come by.

Again, I know you MEAN well....don''t question that at all. But good intentions don''t offset doing harm because you perpetuate incorrect information and present it as "common", OFTEN, and based on some knowledge that you don''t have. And I will continue to correct ANYTHING that I believe is misinformation.

[/b]

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/27/2007 8:08:34 PM
Author: WorkingHardforSmallRewards

I suspect that whoever this sales associate was may in fact have said some confusing or aggressive things in attempting to get a sale. Every business has them you know?

You DO suspect? Based on what first hand knowledge?

WHFSR, how many of WF''s reps were you talking with two years ago (at the time of the original sale) to have anything actually helpful to offer beyond a WILD RIDICULOUS GENERALIZATION????

"Every business has them". No, not EVERY business has them. Some do, and some fortunately don''t.

What you''re implying completely without any merit in this specific instance. It''s as assinine as saying "well, since most men are jerks, that must mean you were being one." ASSININE.

 

[iheartscience]

I''m with Alj completely on this one, WHFSR. You seem to misinterpret and assume a lot quite often. And you''ve given wrong information a couple of times that I can remember. Sometimes it''s best to stay out of something if you haven''t read carefully or if you don''t *really* know about something, in my opinion. I''m not attacking you and I don''t think Alj is, either.

 

[Skippy123]

Suemann, can you get your homeowners to pay a portion and you pay the rest. I am sorry that happened to you. Wishing you the best.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/28/2007 10:35:29 AM
Author: aljdewey




I''d CHALLENGE you to produce evidence of a store that claims to warranty FOR DAMAGE any loose stones they sell.

That project oughta keep you busy for the next month or two.

Well, as to the warranty in question it took me all of about 4.5 seconds to find. A little under a month I would say, certainly under 2. Follow the link:

https://www.helzberg.com/hdsim/jsp/nav.do?edName=ED_OUR_PROMISE&template=%2Fcommerce%2Forder%2FUPSPopUp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1226092272.1191012495@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccceaddlmikhjemcflgcefkdfkjdffl.0&co=0

You will notice it up towards the top of the document. " Free replacement of your diamond, natural sapphire, ruby, or emerald for a lifetime if it chips, breaks, or is lost from its original mounting during normal wear."

____________


Now, since you failed to understand me again let me clarify once more. I never suggested that Whiteflash was responsible for it, nor that it was logical that they should be, only that if the consumer was told that part of the package was an insurance policy that would cover such damages, and they were able to conjur up evidence to that fact, THEN white flash would be. But that isn''t going to happen.

So, why did I say that I suspect a sales associate contributed to the misunderstanding?

I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that it wasn''t entirely her fault. I am not suggesting that whiteflash is actually responsible in any way, but only that I suspect, especially given my experiences in the marketplace, that the SA probably said some things to aid in the confusion. Afterall, she said he did, and I see no reason to doubt that he probably said some confusing things intentionally or unintentionally.

Maybe I am wrong, I wasn''t there 2 years ago. And maybe every store doesn''t have that one bad SA during the 10,20, 50 years they might stay in buisness, but I personally have found at least one in every damn store I have ever been to repeatedly. I might not always find that one bad SA on my first trip, my second or even my tenth, but if you go enough, he/she has always come out of the woodwork in my experience. And sometimes I am sure they get fired before too long, but damn it, every store is probably going to employee a poor representative every now and then unless they stick exclusively with mom and pop. And even then mom or pop is bound to have an off day at some point and say some missleading things. It is part of being human and biring humans. So if she says this SA talked about a warranty when he knew full well that it didn''t apply to them, and as she would have if she had paid closer attention, well I will give her the damn benefit of the doubt. so PLEASE STOP CALLING ME ASSININE. I have had about enough of that thank you.

_________


While I never said that she had a justified case against white flash, what I did say was that it was reasonable and understandable for her to initially think as she did.

The fact is that marketing, society, media, etc, etc convey diamonds as practically invincible. All my life I have grown up with friends, family, grandparents, thousands of commercials, talk show host, co-workers, classroom teachers, etc etc telling me that diamonds are the hardest, and sometimes even saying the toughest (at least never specifying NOT the toughest), material in the world. Thus for a person who has grown up with that image, been told a million times that diamonds are unbelievably strong due to their unique carbon bonding, and are built to last a lifetime, I can understand why people would stop there and believe they had already learned about diamonds. I sure as hell thought I had learned how tough they were before I came across some initially very confusing information. Then someone who believes what everybody in their life has told them is true does a little shopping and are told over and over that the purchase comes with a lifetime replacement warranty at nearly every store they visit--well, why would that normal person feel any need to do any additional research. They believe they already know alot, and if the unlikely happens it is already covered under warranty (which most people I know of would take the word Warranty to imply some sort of defect had been present, though in fact that isn''t inline with the technical definition of the word).

 

[Gypsy]

Wow WHFSR, really with Aldj here.

That is NOT the warrranty she challenged you to find.

That warranty says "From its original MOUNTING" that's a MOUNTED stone warranty.
Apples and oranges.

The OP bought a LOOSE STONE.

Find that SAME warranty, BUT FOR A LOOSE STONE.

You can't and you won't.
Call Helzberg. Ask them: If you buy A LOOSE STONE FROM THEM TO HAVE SET SOMEPLACE ELSE. WHAT IS THEIR WARRANTY ON THAT STONE.

With large type and BOLD, just to provide clarity, since you do seem to mis-read things quite a bit, as has been previously note. Not meaning to gang up... but your asking for it a bit.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/28/2007 10:35:29 AM
Author: aljdewey


WHFSR, with all due respect, you would do yourself a service if you'd try to THINK less. It seems to lead you down erroneous paths.


I've had SEVERAL friends own jewelry from the usual chain store suspects, and before finding PS, I did myself too. So, I can say WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY that the 'warranty' most stores offer has to do with replacing the stones if they fall out of the settings.

....

I'd CHALLENGE you to produce evidence of a store that claims to warranty FOR DAMAGE any loose stones they sell. Lest you be confused by that, I'm not talking about the guarantee that your diamond will appraise within a grade of color/clarity, but an actual warranty that says 'if this stone ever chips, cracks, or otherwise incurs damage, we will replace it at our cost.'


That project oughta keep you busy for the next month or two.

Don't worry, I wasn't confused. And here are a few more examples of what I was talking about.



Zales-If your diamond is chipped, broken or lost from its original setting, Zales will replace the diamond at no charge to you.

Robbins bros-If your diamond chips or cracks or separates from the mounting, we will replace it for a lifetime.

Kay-We will replace, free of charge*, any diamond, emerald, ruby or sapphire covered by this Guarantee if it chips, breaks, or is lost from its original setting during normal wear.

Jared-Replacement of your diamond, emerald, ruby or sapphire if it chips, breaks or is lost from its original mounting during normal wear

To see the sites from which I pulled the remarkably similar quotes click on the underlined texts.


Some companies don't have those policies, but alot of them sure as hell do. It is certainly not uncommon, alj. and while they obviously wouldn't apply in the case of an unmounted stone set by someone else, it is easy to see where a misunderstanding might arise for someone who doesn't know as much as we do about these things.

Now, I am giong to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you probably shopped at stores that didn't have these policies, who knows, we all speak from our own personal experiences, me as well, so don't forget that when I am talking about norms and data that I have gathered through my own observations and life.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/28/2007 5:53:07 PM
Author: Gypsy
Wow WHFSR, really with Aldj here.


That is NOT the warrranty she challenged you to find.



That warranty says 'From its original MOUNTING' that's a MOUNTED stone warranty.

Apples and oranges.



The OP bought a LOOSE STONE.


Find that SAME warranty, BUT FOR A LOOSE STONE.


You can't and you won't.

Call Helzberg. Ask them: If you buy A LOOSE STONE FROM THEM TO HAVE SET SOMEPLACE ELSE. WHAT IS THEIR WARRANTY ON THAT STONE.



With large type and BOLD, just to provide clarity, since you do seem to mis-read things quite a bit, as has been previously note. Not meaning to gang up... but your asking for it a bit.

Yes she did challenge me about loose stones, but if you pay attention when we were talking about helzberg I never talked about loose diamonds but only about helzbergs policy, the point being wherein was the source of Suemann's confusion so as to HELP her understand what had happened.

So no, I am not going to take up a challenge when I have agreed with it from the beginning. But I will show her where businesses do cover damage that incurs to the stone 30 years after the purchase, and I will explain again that it was the source of confusion that I was addressing, and how a normal human being might be confused when purchasing a loose stone and hearing talk of a warranty as well.


so ladies, I never suggested that warranties like that existed for a loose diamond set by someone else. That would be stupid. AGAIN: I just said that this was clearly the source of confusion. So instead of so many people jumping down her throat we should have explained everything to her calmly, helped her find out the facts of whether or not WF had offered her such a warranty (which we would know they hadn't but nothing wrong with helping her to find out) and offered our condolences. SIMILAR warranties do exist, that do in fact cover damage to the stone, and not that many people in the world thing about diamonds as loose, they think about them as invincible gods in their own right. Its just a serious of very common missunderstandings. Hence the confusion.

 

[strmrdr]

wooo all this bickering isnt helping the original poster
(I know color me guilty of doing it too at times....)

The facts of the case...
1> the stone got chipped. ouch sorry to hear that we all feel bad for you.
2> diamonds break, they are rather brittle.
3> something is weird with the insurance costs and the appraisal was a joke.
4> WF isn''t liable and never was under their written policy. If it isn''t in writing it don''t exist.
5> There may have been some miscommunication going on but after 2 years who knows.

So where does the original poster go from here:
My recomendation would be look into repair and go from there.
What ever you do get a different appraiser and get proper insurance thru JA or chubb.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Date: 9/28/2007 6:17:45 PM
Author: strmrdr
wooo all this bickering isnt helping the original poster

(I know color me guilty of doing it too at times....)


The facts of the case...

1> the stone got chipped. ouch sorry to hear that we all feel bad for you.

2> diamonds break, they are rather brittle.

3> something is weird with the insurance costs and the appraisal was a joke.

4> WF isn't liable and never was under their written policy. If it isn't in writing it don't exist.

5> There may have been some miscommunication going on but after 2 years who knows.


So where does the original poster go from here:

My recomendation would be look into repair and go from there.

What ever you do get a different appraiser and get proper insurance thru JA or chubb.

well put.

Good to get some fresh post, I was getting pretty heated up. but to the poster, I can only imagine how terrible it must feel. It so strange to be so attached to a THING but it happens when it is connected with love. and I think you handled yourself well and I hope you can post here and show us pictures of your next ring, which, by the way, I think should be about 2.5cts this time? maybe? maybe a ring actually worth 25,000 dollars that should make you feel better

and it looks ripe for a second honeymoon and a semi-re-proposal

as well, then get your cracked ring set in a bezel if possible and turn it into a pendant to keep on your heart--you got it made.