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Help! Value of EGL .9 diamond!

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bluefog03

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Nov 9, 2014
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I am looking to purchase a diamond for my engagement ring setting and I have one here that I like. It mentions that it is a"IDEAL CUT" in the comments. Does this look like a solid diamond, and what should i be asking for a fair price on it? Anything stick out about it that doesn't seem right?

thanks!
Ben
2014-11-09_10.jpg

I have seen it in person and it really has significant fire and sparkle.
 
Don't buy a diamond graded by EGL.
Their color, clarity and cut grades are VERY unreliable.

The same diamond that EGL gave E VS2 to might get a H SI2 or even worse from the only to labs you should consider, AGS and GIA.

EGL diamonds SEEM like a great bargain comapred to those graded by GIA or AGS UNTIL you learn the grades are lies.
Often EGL stones are more expensive than the same diamond would have been if it was offered with a GIA or AGS report with the much lower grades.

EGL is currently the target of lawsuits over this from customers realizing they were deceived.

This is a huge astonishing mess.
 
bluefog03|1415565379|3780233 said:
I have seen it in person and it really has significant fire and sparkle.
It may have looked good to you but there is much better light performance.
This one is too deep at 63.8%.
 
Cut is WAY more important than color or clarity to how a diamond performs with light.

Here's an easy bulletproof 2-step process for selecting a round with superb cut.
1. HCA https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

2. Idealscope https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Plug 4 numbers from the lab report into the HCA.
(Note: You get more accurate results by using the crown and pavilion angles than using the crown and pavilion height.)
Reject rounds that score over 2.0 and get an Idealscope image on those that score under 2.0.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

Compare the Idealscope pic to this chart. http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope

idealscope_ref_52.png
 
I think mine scored above a 4.0 is that bad?
 
bluefog03|1415567285|3780251 said:
I think mine scored above a 4.0 is that bad?


Yes.

You say "mine.
I'm confused.
Do you own this diamond or are you considering buying it?
 
Bluefog, I added this to my post above ... probably after you read that post so I'll repost it here.


EGL diamonds SEEM like a great bargain comapred to those graded by GIA or AGS UNTIL you learn the grades are lies.
Often a diamond with an EGL report is actually more expensive than the same diamond would have been if it was offered with a GIA or AGS report, even with the much lower (and accurate) grades.

Another problem with EGL grades is there is no correction factor you can use to figure out what the grades really are.
For instance you can't subtract, say, 3 grades to get the true grades.
IOW inconsistency of grading is another problem EGL has.

GIA and AGS are not perfect, they use humans and nature gives us diamonds that are close to, or right on, the borders between color and clarity grades ... but GIA/AGS are much closer and consistent and grade errors of 5 grades or more (as have been reported here from EGL) are unheard of from the competent labs.
 
spread is too small, faces up like a .8-.85
 
Hi Ben, the big problem with EGL International stones is they are graded in places like China, Israel, India under less strict standards than GIA. What this means is it is common to have diamonds that are 3,4 and 5 grades out in colour as describe on these certificates and a couple out in clarity. The worst people have seen here is 7 or 8 incorrect for colour.

The cut is usually way off as well, so as you can see if you put this diamond into the HCA which is in a tab in the right hand corner under "tools" it gets a bad non ideal score for cut.

EGL diamonds seem like a bargain but they really aren't - your .90 E VS1 with a Very Good cut would probably be something like a .90 I/J SI1 to SI2 with a very ordinary cut. This is why we suggest you purchase a GIA graded stone for the same price with much lower specs and a great cut rather than your EGL diamond because you know what you are getting (GIA certificates are usually very accurate) and as an apples for apples comparison the GIA lower specked equivalent shouldn't be that much different in price.

A great cut is what gives a diamond the fire and the sparkle - not colour.
 
Here's what you need to know.

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other. Also try to stick to stones with crown angles between 34-36 and depth under 62.4.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.
 
Also, reputable vendors do not carry EGL international. For all the reasons Arkieb mentioned. Any vendor recommending or selling an EGL USA stone is not one who is looking out for your interests.
 
Thank you all for your help. How about this one!

ben_diamond_1.jpg
 
1.2 is a passing HCA score, but still there are a few concerns with this example.
Normally we consider HCA score a GO/NO GO test.
But if you are an OCD perfectionsist like me you want the best of the best of the best so I also pay attention to the other info the HCA provides in addition to the score.
The X marks the spot where this diamond falls.

The solid white line outlines the more-selective range of AGS's top cut grade.
The dotted line outlines the larger less-selective range of GIA's top cut grade.
This diamond's X is not in AGS's range at all, and is near the edge of GIA's.
Personally, I'd find a diamond that's close to the CENTER of both ranges.







At 59.5% it's a hair on the shallow side , though this gives it good spread ... IOW it will be slightly larger in the face up view for its carat weight.
But perhaps that shallowness is why HCA gave it only VG on Scintillation and not Excellent.
A crown angle of 32.0 is much lower than most of the best-cuts which are usually around 34.7%
Others here know much more than I on how to interpret these proportions so I hope they speak up.

Though GIA graded it VS1 grade (quite high) that comment, about clarity being based on clouds not shown, is sometimes cause for concern.
Sometimes it means the entire diamond is cloudy or milky looking compared to a cleaner stone.
You'd want to get an independent person to look at it and compare it to one without this potential issue.

Because of the odd proportions I'd definitely want to see a properly-taken Idealsocpe pic before buying this one.
If your vendor can't/won't give you one I'd either buy my own Idealscope here ... http://www.ideal-scope.com/?Ref=pricescope ... and only buy if your vendors offers a 100% no questions asked money back guarantee in writing, or I'd find another vendor.
I recommend, and have bought from, Goodoldgold, Whiteflash, and Jamesallen.
I haven't bought from them but would also consider winkjones and briangavindiamonds.

screen_shot_2014-11-10_at_10.png

screen_shot_2014-11-10_at_0.png

screen_shot_2014-11-10_at_1.png
 
Crown is flat at 32 degrees. I would pass.
Did you read what I posted for you? It recommends crown angles from 34-36 with a good HCA score.
 
What is your budget? If you start a new post help me find a diamond in x budget with y specs everyone will find and suggest the best stones for you.
 
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