Help! Step Cut Sapphire - Window?!?!?!

[endless_summer]

Hey All!

I appreciate any and all opinions that you may have regarding this sapphire. I recognize that its light violet blue rather than the traditional blue, and I love step cuts...but, I feel like there's such a large window that it looks like there's a hole cut out of the center. Is this what one would expect from a step cut? I like the colors that it shifts to in different lights and the light it throw off if its sides, but I feel like it looks like it has a cut out in the middle of it. I thought I'd be posting with a big "yay!!!" when I received it, but now I'm just looking for honest opinions.

I absolutely can send it back and would make that call within a day just to have it taken care of. I am also happy to be patient and wait for another stone - sapphires are just terrible hard to figure out and especially hard to judge from pics.

Apologies for my hands (very cold and just got inside) - here are 3 pics - two in different lights and a close up. In case it helps, it's 7.9mm by 7.94, and the depth around 80%.

Thanks in advance for your help - I really do appreciate any thoughts you guys may have.

 

[RTFrog]

Hi Endless_Summer,

The most important question would be - are you happy with it? Your concerns about the window, will it prevent you from wearing and loving it? I like the color, but am not the biggest fan of the window. Some can close up more when set, but it appears that yours is still visible. Is there any way to see the bottom of the stone? To see if the faceting pattern comes to a neat head, or if there is more of a flat spot?

Sapphires are expensive and colors unique to taste. Windows are common in many stones, especially depending on whom it was cut.

I'm including a picture of a rough stone, taken without any edits at all, that does not have much or any of a window for comparison.



I included this stone because it is very close to your dimensions and is also very deep.

 

[LD]

Unfortunately this can happen with step cuts if the cutting isn't exact - that coupled with the fact that the colour is pale which always makes windows much more obvious and less forgiving. A different setting (ie one with a closed back under the gem) would help to minimise it but now you're aware of it, you may find it doesn't close to your satisfaction.

If your response hasn't been a "yaaaaay" then live with it for a few days and if that doesn't change, then send it back. As you say, you're happy to wait for the right one to come along. I wish I had done that in my early days of collecting - I didn't and ended up with so many gems that I was less than happy with and the money I could have saved would have bought something nice.

I think this is a pretty stone but if it's not what you want/expected then send it back but ONLY if you feel it's not for you.

 

[katharath]

My jeweler, who has sold a fair share of step cut sapphires, has told me that she sees a lot of windowing in them. I've purchased a couple from her and have seen their tendency to window in person, as well. (Most of the sapphires she stocks are native cuts, cut overseas). My step cut sapphires that have had windows didn't bother me too terribly much, and I loved the gems, but I felt that the windows weren't horribly noticeable. A really noticeable window is something I strongly dislike.

From your pics - this would really bug me personally! The pics make it seems very noticeable and I'm picky about such things. If it were me, I think I would have to send it back. But with that said, what truly matters is how much it bothers YOU! It's a very pretty color..good luck deciding!

 

[pregcurious]

If you're posting about it after having had it for few days, I would send it back. I find that if there's something still bugging me after I've had a stone for a week, then it needs to go back.

 

[endless_summer]

Hi Endless_Summer,

The most important question would be - are you happy with it? Your concerns about the window, will it prevent you from wearing and loving it? I like the color, but am not the biggest fan of the window. Some can close up more when set, but it appears that yours is still visible. Is there any way to see the bottom of the stone? To see if the faceting pattern comes to a neat head, or if there is more of a flat spot?

Sapphires are expensive and colors unique to taste. Windows are common in many stones, especially depending on whom it was cut.

I'm including a picture of a rough stone, taken without any edits at all, that does not have much or any of a window for comparison.



I included this stone because it is very close to your dimensions and is also very deep.

Thank you for this - I honestly thought I would love it before receiving it and had even thought about different settings for it, so it would be more of a right-hand ring, as opposed to looking like an engagey-solitaire. I did like the color because I like violet-blue and being lighter, one could see the faceting pattern - I just didn't think I'd be able to see clear through to my finger

I just looked underneath the stone (the setting has an open backing), and it doesn't come to a clean point like your example. It's four facets that almost line up, but not quite, so what would should be a point is more of a very short line/flat spot. I've seen tilt windows before but never one that apparent face up. I couldn't see it in the pictures pre-purchase decision because one only saw straight through to the white gold bottom of the shank, as opposed to someone's finger. I would have assumed that the cut was off due to the depth or who knows, but your picture is really helpful in diagnosing the likely reason for it.

 

[endless_summer]

Unfortunately this can happen with step cuts if the cutting isn't exact - that coupled with the fact that the colour is pale which always makes windows much more obvious and less forgiving. A different setting (ie one with a closed back under the gem) would help to minimise it but now you're aware of it, you may find it doesn't close to your satisfaction.

If your response hasn't been a "yaaaaay" then live with it for a few days and if that doesn't change, then send it back. As you say, you're happy to wait for the right one to come along. I wish I had done that in my early days of collecting - I didn't and ended up with so many gems that I was less than happy with and the money I could have saved would have bought something nice.

I think this is a pretty stone but if it's not what you want/expected then send it back but ONLY if you feel it's not for you.

Thanks LD,

These are really great thoughts. I appreciate the advice about the color and the setting. If it were a darker color, I imagine it wouldn't show nearly as much. I am too inexperienced to know what will close a window, but it's possible that a setting with platinum or white gold underneath the stone, rather than my finger, would help. That sort of a setting would mimic the way that it looked when I saw the seller's pics (off hand) where the window would show to the shank. The problem is that it would be un-returnable if I re-set it, so it would be a gamble. I have plenty of time and would like to see how it looks in natural light, even swing it by a jeweler, whose opinion I respect greatly (as it's very conservative), to see if he thinks a different setting would help it. But, if a return is the right call, then I will do it sooner rather than later.

If I return it, then I will wait until I have a bit more of a budget and for the right stone - that said, patience is very hard to execute!

 

[RTFrog]

Goodluck! Patience is always hard. I would hope that the vendor would include pictures on a finger/model next time for you, so it would remove the guesswork and the result. Even with pictures, it's still something that usually needs to be seen in person. At least you now have a good explanation for it.

LD and others are true gurus here. Their advice is truly invaluable. I'm sure they can help you out in the future too, for any stone. There's another thread a couple down about several posters step-cut sapphire search with some beautiful examples.

https://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/asscher-cut-sapphire-t186487.html

 

[endless_summer]

My jeweler, who has sold a fair share of step cut sapphires, has told me that she sees a lot of windowing in them. I've purchased a couple from her and have seen their tendency to window in person, as well. (Most of the sapphires she stocks are native cuts, cut overseas). My step cut sapphires that have had windows didn't bother me too terribly much, and I loved the gems, but I felt that the windows weren't horribly noticeable. A really noticeable window is something I strongly dislike.

From your pics - this would really bug me personally! The pics make it seems very noticeable and I'm picky about such things. If it were me, I think I would have to send it back. But with that said, what truly matters is how much it bothers YOU! It's a very pretty color..good luck deciding!

You hit the nail on the head! I do really like the color - it's just very soft and pretty, and I really like all of the light that it throws, which is more distracting that the window. But...the window is as apparent in person as they are in the pics, if not more. I just couldn't tell if I was being overly critical thinking that it looked like it had a hole cut out of the center! It really should be an easy choice, and if it weren't so noticeable, it would be a no-brainer to keep it and re-set it in a RHR style. I guess I'm hesitating because I want to LOVE it and was so very excited, but the cut-out was very obvious from the moment that I took the ring out. If a different setting would close the window - I would just be patient about wearing it until I could budget for a new setting and start wearing it then. How often does a 4 carat sapphire that one can afford come along - you know? It reminds me of all the times I've been told that if it's too good to be true, it probably is - just not sure which is the case here.

 

[endless_summer]

Pregcurious - you have an excellent policy. If it goes back, I will send it off sooner rather than later - I think that's best for me and the seller. I've learned, at least with clothes, that if I don't love it - I don't wear it, and I imagine the same would be true for a ring.

 

[endless_summer]

Goodluck! Patience is always hard. I would hope that the vendor would include pictures on a finger/model next time for you, so it would remove the guesswork and the result. Even with pictures, it's still something that usually needs to be seen in person. At least you now have a good explanation for it.

LD and others are true gurus here. Their advice is truly invaluable. I'm sure they can help you out in the future too, for any stone. There's another thread a couple down about several posters step-cut sapphire search with some beautiful examples.

https://www.pricescope.com/forum/colored-stones/asscher-cut-sapphire-t186487.html

Thanks RTFrog - the seller did have a pick on a model, but it was a mannequin hand, so the white wouldn't show through like my skin. I don't think anyone was trying to hide the ball or anything. In receiving the ring, it had an appraisal (I know these can be inflated) that disclosed 10-20% windowing, if I hadn't noticed it myself. I don't fault the seller at all - I chalk it up to my inexperience and wanting to get a step-cut stone like those in the asscher-cut sapphire thread (I poured over it previously - all are gorgeous!) so much that I jumped on it without knowing all of the questions to ask.

I have read many of the threads on this forum and rocky talk, and everyone is always super helpful and willing to educate and share their experience as well as their honesty. I appreciate it a great deal.

 

[lindacat]

I think the window is quite distracting, too - I never buy gemstones that have windowing - just means that the cutting was poorly done in my opinion. I have never understood why cutters do not take a little extra time and get the cutting right? I would much rather pay a little more for a stone that is well cut and not windowed than to have a cheaper price!! Maybe when they are cutting, they aren't able to tell until they are done cutting that they have made a windowed stone? I don't get why SO many stones are cut so poorly. Maybe some cutters out there can explain why this is so!?

 

[LD]

Endless Summer - I thought it might be useful for you to see how a window can be masked by a setting. I use the word "masked" because of course nothing will put right poor cutting which will still be evident but less so. Success with closing up a window varies depending on the stone, the colour of the stone, the metal colour you chose and most importantly the basket design underneath the stone.

What you see below is a grossly misrepresented parti sapphire that I bought on a whim. You can see the vendor's photo and then what it looked like when it arrived! (BTW there was a video as well that looked like the vendor photo - clearly both had been heavily manipulated). Anyhow, I digress! I had an empty setting and just for fun popped the stone into it (the last photo in the line is with the stone simply popped into the setting loose. I couldn't believe my eyes at the difference it made and it was even better when it was actually set (see the last photo).

I'm attaching a photo of the empty setting so you can see how enclosed it is around the bottom. That's what's responsible for minimising the window. My ONLY word of caution is that you WILL still see the cutting issues (because you know it's there) but to others it won't be obvious!

BTW I don't normally set such awful stones but I was intrigued how the window has minimised so I did this and kept it as a learning piece!

I hope this helps.

 

[carmen1]

As LD noted, that window could "close up" if there was metal behind it in the setting.

Another great example is GemFever's chrysoberyl ring - here are before & after photos which show a remarkable difference:


Thread is here: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/chrysoberyl-set-by-danielm.172372/

If you really love everything else about the stone & ring, it may just require a modification to the setting.

 

[endless_summer]

Lindacat - yes, it is very distracting; I don't understand why a cutter would do this either (perhaps to retain weight?), but it is helpful to hear that this sort of thing does happen. Excellent learning lesson!

LD & Carmen1 - those are very nice examples of how a setting can help the stone. Yesterday evening and this morning, I put the end of a piece of silverware under the open backing to see if it would be helpful, and it did seem to improve the appearance 10-fold. But, if the stone isn't viewed exactly face-up, the window appears again. I imagine in a setting designed to encase the bottom of the stone there would be a much more dramatic improvement. It's just a large gamble to invest more, knowing that it's still possible that the window may not close sufficiently for it to no longer effect the stone's appearance in that way.

I really appreciate the effort and thought that you guys have put into helping with this decision. I have contacted the seller about a return, but I think I'll follow up with a call to see if they have a re-set option instead and would be willing to do a re-set without taking away my option to return it, if a re-set doesn't resolve the window.

Again, thank you for helping me - I would call either a re-set or a return a good outcome!

 

[FrekeChild]

If the stone is deep enough, a recut might be possible to get rid of the window. If you have pictures if the side view, you could send them to Dan Stair or Jerry Newman and get their take on it.

Stones are cut all over the world, on different types of machines and the end goal for each cutter varies. Here in the US we have a lot of precision cutters that cut using high tech machines using computers to get precise angles. Other areas of the world aren't as developed, and still use what they have. Some cutters cut entirely for weight, leaving a less sparkly gem with windows, tilt windows, bow ties, etc. others cut for facet reflection, using angles to reflect as much light as possible back out of the stone. Some cut stones to retain weight AND to get sparkle out of it. I have a peach sapphire that has a big window, and the cutter went for retaining weight and face up size-if they had cut for sparkle, it would have probably been a 3mm round stone instead of a 5x7 oval.

Personally, it's a sought after color that is not common and you seem to like it, so I'd look into other avenues before automatically returning it.

 

[FrekeChild]

Also, antique diamonds were cut with a flat facet on the bottom called a culet. So you see straight through the stone to what is underneath. Depending on the person, it can be highly desirable to have one.

 

[carmen1]

But, if the stone isn't viewed exactly face-up, the window appears again.

Is it possible that what you are describing here is a tilt window? If so I believe that is quite normal to see, even in well-cut stones, but I think even moreso in step cut stones.

 

[endless_summer]

FrekeChild - I did think about a re-cut because the stone is 4 carats and cut to about 80% depth, so I thought it might be possible to have it better cut and still retain at least half of the weight. In this instance though, I do want to retain the ability to return it because I'm not in a position to gamble with the price of the ring, let alone after investing more into re-cutting the stone, re-setting, etc. If I had the means, I certainly would though - some of the folks on here have had beautiful re-cuts! I guess I just don't even have a sense of what would be involved or a ballpark price for taking something like that on. Do you, or anyone reading, have a sense of what a re-cut costs, if one is feasible?

But, I didn't realize that cutlets were valued in older stones - at least, with my engagement ring, FI double-checked just to be sure that my stone didn't have one.

Carmen1 - it's not just a tilt window. What I was describing was how placing a piece of metal below the stone did minimize the window in a face-up position. I recognize that tilt windows are fairly common - it's just that this stone's window is very, very obvious anyway that one looks at it, including face-up, in the stone's current setting.

BUT - I do have some good news...hopefully! I called the seller and explained: first, that I wasn't trying to play games or be difficult because I had anticipated loving the stone, and second, both the window and that a different setting with a closed backing may help to close the window. The seller is amenable to seeing if there is an alternative setting available, and if so, we can talk about it, re-set the stone, and I can still retain the return policy. Additionally, if there isn't an alternative setting, they may have a couple of similar stones to consider as well. I am very pleased and excited to send it back in hopes that we can find a good resolution. If not at this time, they'll let me know if new items come into stock that I might be interested in. Either way, I thought it was very upstanding of the seller to be so understanding and trying to deliver good customer service, rather than saying that a return was the only option.

Absolutely, this wouldn't be the outcome without you guys because I wouldn't have even known that there could be a possible fix, so thank you all!

 

[FrekeChild]

I don't have much time, but here is a link to Dan Stair's recut page.

http://www.customgemstones.com/RECUTS/Recuts.html

Looks like $35/hour.

 

[endless_summer]

Thank you! I just checked it out - impressive examples!

 

[minousbijoux]

I'll reiterate what others have said that its a personal thing. It might help if you would ask yourself whether its a mind clean thing - that is, if you set it and its gone will it still bother you knowing the stone has one - or as long as you can't see it, it doesn't matter. 80% depth as you've already implied is great to work with for a recut, but its risky. I agree with the others who said they would send it back.

 

[endless_summer]

I'll reiterate what others have said that its a personal thing. It might help if you would ask yourself whether its a mind clean thing - that is, if you set it and its gone will it still bother you knowing the stone has one - or as long as you can't see it, it doesn't matter. 80% depth as you've already implied is great to work with for a recut, but its risky. I agree with the others who said they would send it back.

Thanks Minousbijoux - I did send it back. For me, a re-cut would be too risky. Even though the idea is very appealing, I'm not in a position to take the gamble. In the same vein, I didn't want to/couldn't invest the added monies in re-setting it locally because I wouldn't want to keep it if the window was still obvious, and by changing the ring, I would lose the return policy.

However, the seller is going to see if there is an alternative setting available that might close the window, which is great, and if there is one, I will still be able to maintain the return policy on the re-set. If the seller doesn't have a setting that would work and that I would like, then absolutely - a return for refund it is. In talking to the seller, it was super helpful to be able to explain the window, why the ring would appear different on hand than in pics (windowed to the back of the ring or a white mannequin), and talk about a possible re-set with closed back, none of which would have been possible without everyone's help on the forum.

All in all, I think it will be a good outcome, and if not with this particular stone, then I'm glad that I only looked at sellers with sound return policies in place - the worst case at this point is just the lost shipping charges for the return and gaining some valuable information going forward

 

[minousbijoux]

You know what I love about this whole thread, but mainly your approach? You have done a fair bit of homework, have tried to figure things out for yourself, know your own tolerance level on various aspects of the stone (in this case, the cutting and the window), and came to ask some clarifying questions. Your questions were not "what should I do?" but more like "this is what I seek; what, if anything, can be done to get me there?" As a result of your effort and knowledge, you cut right to the chase, got the answers you needed to make an informed choice, and no surprise, were able to make it in a most manner. Here's hoping he has another setting that will work for the stone. Good luck!

 

[endless_summer]

You know what I love about this whole thread, but mainly your approach? You have done a fair bit of homework, have tried to figure things out for yourself, know your own tolerance level on various aspects of the stone (in this case, the cutting and the window), and came to ask some clarifying questions. Your questions were not "what should I do?" but more like "this is what I seek; what, if anything, can be done to get me there?" As a result of your effort and knowledge, you cut right to the chase, got the answers you needed to make an informed choice, and no surprise, were able to make it in a most manner. Here's hoping he has another setting that will work for the stone. Good luck!

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your thoughts (as well as everyone else's!) in helping to get to a good outcome. I hope there is a setting that will work and, if not, I'll just be patient for new promising find in the future - in either case, I will certainly let you guys know what happens with this ring

 

[minousbijoux]

Thank you so much! I really appreciate your thoughts (as well as everyone else's!) in helping to get to a good outcome. I hope there is a setting that will work and, if not, I'll just be patient for new promising find in the future - in either case, I will certainly let you guys know what happens with this ring

Please do!

 

[endless_summer]

Hi All!

I talked to the seller, and the seller thought just putting a metal plate behind the stone in the shank would fix the windowing. While the seller was willing to try this, I wasn't confident that it would fully resolve the issue for me because the stone is set up very high, and when I looked it with a piece of metal behind it, the window was still obvious to me from any slight angle, other than absolutely straight on. As much as I did like the brightness of the color and the stone's size, I just don't think that this was the one for me (as much as I wish that it were), even though with the modification, I'm sure that someone else will enjoy the ring very much.

In the end, I have received notice of a refund, and the seller will let me know of any similar stones that come up. That said, I do like the medium-dark violet blue stones too, so I'll just keep looking with an open mind - this was a good experience, and thank you all for all of your help!