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Help searching for H&A Square Cushion Cut

harborview

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
4
I have been browsing (lurking) on this site for a few weeks now and have learned a lot from all of you on the forum. Thank you to everyone for making this process more open and less daunting. I've narrowed down what I'm looking for and just need some help with the search. I started researching the Tiffany Novo because that is the look that my gf liked. From reading through some of the threads here on the Tiffany Novo it sounds like a Square Cushion H&A is a comparable shape and cut. Here are the specs that I am starting with:

Shape - Square Cushion H&A
Carat - 1.25 - 1.5
Color - G and above
Clarity - VS2 and above
Budget - around 12,000 for diamond (15K w/setting limit)

I contacted GOG and they were very responsive in running a search for me and answering questions. Unfortunately, the only hit that came back within my specs was a 1.1 ct G VS2 http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6372/

That stone while very nice came in well under my price range and at a carat weight lower than I would prefer. I'm wondering if some experienced people could try a search and post results. My search here on PS yielded nothing but I am probably doing something wrong. Thanks for your time and expertise.
 

antelope1

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
648
We looked at square H&As for a while and even had two appraised. There were several factors involved in the sending-back, but one of them was simply that a square H&A cushion from a distance (say from my eye to my hand) looks like a RB H&A. And there are a lot more RB H&As to choose from, and very few square H&As. In fact, I would describe the square H&A market as completely illiquid (too many econ classes)...

If you have your heart set on a square H&A, go for it. But, if you just like the look of them online, see some RB H&As in person to compare. The rounds look bigger (have more spread) for the same weight.
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
harborview said:
I have been browsing (lurking) on this site for a few weeks now and have learned a lot from all of you on the forum. Thank you to everyone for making this process more open and less daunting. I've narrowed down what I'm looking for and just need some help with the search. I started researching the Tiffany Novo because that is the look that my gf liked. From reading through some of the threads here on the Tiffany Novo it sounds like a Square Cushion H&A is a comparable shape and cut. Here are the specs that I am starting with:

Shape - Square Cushion H&A
Carat - 1.25 - 1.5
Color - G and above
Clarity - VS2 and above
Budget - around 12,000 for diamond (15K w/setting limit)

I contacted GOG and they were very responsive in running a search for me and answering questions. Unfortunately, the only hit that came back within my specs was a 1.1 ct G VS2 http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6372/

That stone while very nice came in well under my price range and at a carat weight lower than I would prefer. I'm wondering if some experienced people could try a search and post results. My search here on PS yielded nothing but I am probably doing something wrong. Thanks for your time and expertise.

The best source online in North America for the Square Cushion HA would be GOG.
This is another option http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7381/ but a lower color than you may prefer.
My suggestion is call (not e-mail) GOG and ask to speak to Jon (rhino) and have him call up his supplier to get exactly your preferred spec range and budget.

If that doesn't work, you may also try Geoffrey's in Los Angeles as they source stones from the same supplier.
Finally if neither of those avenues work contact Dana at Eighstar.com as they have a similar square cushion hearts and arrows.

I only partially agree with Antelope1 about the square cushion HA.

Does it faceup smaller than the same carat round? (only marginally 5 - 10% less (due to filed down girdle) keep in mind its mostly square not round and surface area is calculated differently for both shapes).
Does it look like a round? Yes and No (It has sharp edges and only slightly rounded corners, however in some settings it will look like a round if you put large prongs at the corners and a roundish shaped setting). The facet structure resembles a hearts and arrows round but has some marked differences especially of the corner facets.

Good-Luck,
CCL
 

boredstiff

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 21, 2009
Messages
145
I did the same comparison and found that the square shaped cuts were all too deep -- hence too little spread for the money.
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
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boredstiff said:
I did the same comparison and found that the square shaped cuts were all too deep -- hence too little spread for the money.

Deeper than most cushion cuts? Yes, especially as compared to a similar facet structure like the 8 main thin cushion. But the depth and precision cutting gives them greater scintillation and fire than most cushions.

Deeper than a round? No. the depth% is about the same. Just the calculation method is different for fancy shapes.

Eightstar recuts rounds into their Square Cushion Hearts and Arrows and they don't waste too much rough doing this, so the depth is not changed significantly from a round.
 

harborview

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
4
@antelope1 - Thank you. That is good info to know that depending on the setting a square H&A can look like a RB H&A. I'm sorry but RB H&A means the shape/cut is Round Brilliant? I am by no means stuck on the square H&A, I just know that my gf liked the square cushion cut of the Novo. I am totally open to being educated and showing her some different options which may make the search easier depending on her preference.

@chunkycushionlover - Thank you and I was hoping you would comment. I did see that other option you suggested on GOG and as you inferred the color was one factor in discounting it.

It appears my best options now are to:

1) Call Jon at GOG and try to get a square H&A that meets my specs
2) Find a square cushion of similar performance quality to H&A (need to know what to look for and where)
3) Show RB H&A (once I know what that is) :twirl: to my gf and see if she likes it equally.

I had no idea that the square H&A was in such limited supply. I would like to find the diamond in the next month so maybe I need to change tactics. Thanks for your help so far.
 

CharmyPoo

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
7,007
If Tiffany Novo look is your goal, also try to find a 8 thin main modern cushion. I find the they look very much like the novos without the premium of the square H&A. CCL and I each own one. I guess CCL doesn't really own his considering he gave it to his wife.
 

ChunkyCushionLover

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Joined
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CharmyPoo said:
If Tiffany Novo look is your goal, also try to find a 8 thin main modern cushion. I find the they look very much like the novos without the premium of the square H&A. CCL and I each own one. I guess CCL doesn't really own his considering he gave it to his wife.

Middle one is my wife's 1.59ct diamond. Jon at GOG can find more like it. Mark at ERD used to be able to as well but I'm not sure he can anymore.

novovs8mainvsSquareCushionHA.jpg
 

Roxie Bling

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Nov 24, 2009
Messages
82
You're singing my song. I have been looking for a very similar diamond (sometimes with a vengeance, and when I get discouraged - I switch to casually browsing) for almost a year. I hope we both find what we are hoping for, but if you have a 30 day deadline and your girlfriend can be just as happy with another type of diamond you might consider looking at others.

Good luck!

ps: I have total diamond envy of Mrs. CCL's and Charmypoo's stones!
 

antelope1

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 5, 2010
Messages
648
Harborview, I feel for you, I do really! A few months ago, we started off looking online only (and at the Tiffany's across the street) and I fixated on one type of stone (Lucida, which became an Asscher when I searched for it on bluenile, which became a square H&A once I discovered GOG's website). We even made a pilgrimage to LI to see stones at GOG, but then I held the square H&A in tweezers on my finger and stepped back, and thought, darn -- it looks like a round brilliant (RB) H&A cut simply because my eyes focused on the H&As, not on the shape. Then I went home and attacked the google -- who basically told me that in our range, there were only three square H&As available (with our pretty broad specs) in the past month, two of which we had at the appraisers, and one of which had been bought by another PSer. There may have been more (hiding, perhaps), but that market seemed pretty illiquid to me! Then I searched for RB H&As with the same specs on Pricescope (restricting it to inhouse stones, and eliminating identical stones listed by multiple sellers) -- and found that there were several dozen RB H&As that met our criteria. Now that's a competitive market!

IMO, the best you can do is go to a good local B&M jeweler (not a Tiffany's because most of their cuts are proprietary) that has a big stock of loose diamonds that you can look at to get a sense of what she likes. It's hard to buy diamonds online as a total newbie because the photos online are 100-1000 times the size of the stone and you're focusing on things that you wouldn't necessarily focus on if you had the stone up against your finger. The cool tools (DiamXray, ASET, IdealScope) are just that, cool tools. But people looking at your gf's finger aren't going to whip out an ASET (which you can't use once it's set anyway) to appreciate the finer details of your stone. So looking in a B&M store (preferably several B&M stores) is the best way to see what range of stones she really likes (or finds acceptable).

The other thing to keep in mind (as you're looking at settings) is that a lot of the great custom people work in small workshops -- and it's summertime! It might take longer than 30 days to fabricate the setting around the ring if they're on vacation -- but with your budget, there is no reason to get her a prefabricated setting.

With your budget and specs, you should have no problem finding the ring of her dreams! Good luck!
 

Cushion

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
27
I have been looking for the same thing, for the most part and have found it to be very illiquid aswell. I have mainly been looking for an 8 main thin. Is it normal for GOG to request a deposit to start talking to their supplier? I mean it makes sense for them to have some kind of deposit since they have costs associated with sourcing diamonds, just a little nervous that then I will be stuck with using them or be out however much my deposit will be. Thanks for the help.
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
Cushion said:
I have been looking for the same thing, for the most part and have found it to be very illiquid aswell. I have mainly been looking for an 8 main thin. Is it normal for GOG to request a deposit to start talking to their supplier? I mean it makes sense for them to have some kind of deposit since they have costs associated with sourcing diamonds, just a little nervous that then I will be stuck with using them or be out however much my deposit will be. Thanks for the help.

If you want all the reflector tests, video and cut expertise that GOG offers you have to show them you are committed to making a purchase with them. At least enough to cover the shipping and insurance costs to call in virtual diamonds for review. The only vendors who can afford to not do this are sitting within walking distance of their suppliers usually in the diamond district or really have a high tolerance for risk.

If I was a diamond vendor nothing would make me more crazy than calling in 3 diamonds at a cost of $40 - $80(includes shipping both ways) each, spending 3 hours of time taking a video and editing, posting ASET images, discussing the stones with the customers etc etc etc. Only to find that customer walked down the street and bought another stone from a vendor who had something that looked to a novice as 'similar'(for $400 cheaper on a 8k stone), this vendor described the stone simply as a nice pretty bright stone, just trust me and see it in person,

I have to say I bought my only significant diamond purchase from Mark at ERD after 3 months of studying and talking to just about every PS vendor. Even after all of that research and the most honest and noble efforts by Mark in educating me on the nuances of diamonds, I am a little disappointed in my purchase. Mark brought me the ring in person(4 hour+ drive each way for him!) from New York to Vermont and he is just a wonderfully warm, friendly, and educated diamantaire.

My wife loves her stone, thinks its beautiful and loves the style of the cut. For me I'm disappointed, and reminded regularly of this as I am very active in cut education and participating on pricescope. I know it doesn't hold a candle to a Square Cushion HA or to other top cut cushions in terms of fire and scintillation. Luckily for my wife she isn't afflicted with this disease as she has never seen better! (I have no intention of showing her better unless its my own design).

I am already working on redesigning the cut of her diamond so that others who want this shape outline can also have excellent non hearts and arrows optics. But this takes serious efforts(I am just a novice doing this part time) and really the only vendor I know of who has come close to this level of detail and dedication in Fancy shapes is Jon at GOG.

Good-Luck,
CCL
 

Cushion

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
27
Well CCL, you know of my experience with Mark so far and I'm just not happy with what is out there currently. I like the HA square diamonds from GOG, but am a little worried that they will then look like a RB. I know that she likes the Novo and the closest thing to it would be an 8 main like your wifes, but no one has any out there. I guess I'm just not really sure where i should go from here...
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
Cushion said:
Well CCL, you know of my experience with Mark so far and I'm just not happy with what is out there currently. I like the HA square diamonds from GOG, but am a little worried that they will then look like a RB. I know that she likes the Novo and the closest thing to it would be an 8 main like your wifes, but no one has any out there. I guess I'm just not really sure where i should go from here...

It would be the first time I have heard that any PS vendor, GOG included, would ask for a deposit to make a phone call. I think something got lost in translation. At the very least get Jonathan on the phone directly and get the information directly from him about availability. The deposit would be only if they are going to call in a stone for you.

Maybe Bob Hoskins at WF can find something as well for you, the trick to finding these is LW Ratio = 1 to a max of 1.01.
Excellent Polish and at least Very Good Symmetry, Excellent Symmetry is possible. Then in stones over 1 Ct you are looking for a GIA inclusion facet plot with an 8 pointed star, the points are thin not fat. But even with WF you will have to pay a deposit to call in the stone.

In addition you are looking for a table under 61% and Depths in the range of 63 - 70%.
 

Roxie Bling

Rough_Rock
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Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
82
ChunkyCushionLover said:
... I am a little disappointed in my purchase. Mark brought me the ring in person(4 hour+ drive each way for him!) from New York to Vermont and he is just a wonderfully warm, friendly, and educated diamantaire.

My wife loves her stone, thinks its beautiful and loves the style of the cut. For me I'm disappointed, and reminded regularly of this as I am very active in cut education and participating on pricescope. I know it doesn't hold a candle to a Square Cushion HA or to other top cut cushions in terms of fire and scintillation. Luckily for my wife she isn't afflicted with this disease as she has never seen better! (I have no intention of showing her better unless its my own design).

I am already working on redesigning the cut of her diamond so that others who want this shape outline can also have excellent non hearts and arrows optics. But this takes serious efforts(I am just a novice doing this part time) and really the only vendor I know of who has come close to this level of detail and dedication in Fancy shapes is Jon at GOG.

Hi CCL. Would love to see some examples (or even just one) of the type of cushion you would prefer. Are you talking about GOG's HA and AVC, or are there other great stones we cushion hunters should look into?

That is an exciting venture working on a cushion cut design for those of us who keep coming up dry. I really admire and appreciate your passion for optimizing this cut.
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
Roxie Bling said:
ChunkyCushionLover said:
... I am a little disappointed in my purchase. Mark brought me the ring in person(4 hour+ drive each way for him!) from New York to Vermont and he is just a wonderfully warm, friendly, and educated diamantaire.

My wife loves her stone, thinks its beautiful and loves the style of the cut. For me I'm disappointed, and reminded regularly of this as I am very active in cut education and participating on pricescope. I know it doesn't hold a candle to a Square Cushion HA or to other top cut cushions in terms of fire and scintillation. Luckily for my wife she isn't afflicted with this disease as she has never seen better! (I have no intention of showing her better unless its my own design).

I am already working on redesigning the cut of her diamond so that others who want this shape outline can also have excellent non hearts and arrows optics. But this takes serious efforts(I am just a novice doing this part time) and really the only vendor I know of who has come close to this level of detail and dedication in Fancy shapes is Jon at GOG.

Hi CCL. Would love to see some examples (or even just one) of the type of cushion you would prefer. Are you talking about GOG's HA and AVC, or are there other great stones we cushion hunters should look into?

That is an exciting venture working on a cushion cut design for those of us who keep coming up dry. I really admire and appreciate your passion for optimizing this cut.

Roxiebling,

The best collection of top performing cuts I have seen is in this video http://www.vimeo.com/9188543
I am of course the "chunkycushionlover" so definitely an AVC. But a SCHA would be fine as well for my wife.

Also there are two great 4 main cushions in this video that would meet my standards. The problem is there are so few 4 mains that meet this level of light performance.

Things will change in the future and there will be more cushions cut with light performance in mind. Garry H and Octonus were developing a nice 4 main some time ago, not sure if they ever starting cutting them though.
 

harborview

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
4
Thanks everyone, your responses have helped enormously. I am working with GOG to find modern cushions now and having learned about the scarcity of H&A Square Cushions I am wondering everyone's opinion on http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7381/ This is a 1.54 ct graded AGS I/SI1 and CCL mentioned it earlier in this post when I was stuck on higher color and clarity. One question I have is about the color in a platinum setting and if it would have any noticeable color/tint. The other is if the SI1 would be eye clean and everyone will tell me it depends on your eye I'm sure :geek: The good thing is I live near GOG so I can visit and see for myself but would like your expert opinions. Thanks.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,225
Looks good. Tell us what you think of it in person. =)
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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harborview said:
Thanks everyone, your responses have helped enormously. I am working with GOG to find modern cushions now and having learned about the scarcity of H&A Square Cushions I am wondering everyone's opinion on http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/7381/ This is a 1.54 ct graded AGS I/SI1 and CCL mentioned it earlier in this post when I was stuck on higher color and clarity. One question I have is about the color in a platinum setting and if it would have any noticeable color/tint. The other is if the SI1 would be eye clean and everyone will tell me it depends on your eye I'm sure :geek: The good thing is I live near GOG so I can visit and see for myself but would like your expert opinions. Thanks.

You are lucky you live near GOG so you can see many things while you are there. Color sensitivity is a personal thing, it will show less color if there are no higher color diamonds near it. But only the wearer can tell us if they notice the tint or not. Be sure to look at it in various light scenarios, by the window, under a table, away from the lights etc.

Strangely I can't see the inclusions on the plot (bad scan?) but the best thing would be to view it in person. Judging from my office chair I might be concerned about the inclusion in the middle of the table, but then again SCHA are usually quite eye clean. Once again view in many different conditions including natural lighting. You decide how close or far from you is okay for eye clean and if it has to be eye clean only faceup or from the side as well.

Good-luck,
CCl
 

harborview

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
4
This is another option of a non H&A square cushion. Please tell me what you think. My main concern is the amount and concentration of inclusions and whether they will be visible to the eye face up. http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7524 Thanks.
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
This is another option of a non H&A square cushion. Please tell me what you think. My main concern is the amount and concentration of inclusions and whether they will be visible to the eye face up. http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/7524 Thanks.

You can ask GOG about the inclusions its difficult to tell. I would not be happy with this stone based on the cut. It will look smaller due to poor light return on the edges. It is also a modified brilliant and from the ASET I would expect it to be the crushed ice variety and watery in places and dark in others.

What did Jon say about it?
 

CharmyPoo

Ideal_Rock
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Dec 10, 2004
Messages
7,007
Frankly, I am surprised that stone is even in the inventory. Then again, I have strong opinions against modified cushions - maybe too strong and I know not everyone agrees.
 

ChunkyCushionLover

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,463
CharmyPoo said:
Frankly, I am surprised that stone is even in the inventory. Then again, I have strong opinions against modified cushions - maybe too strong and I know not everyone agrees.

If it says limited guarantee it was a call in based on a consumer's preferences didn't receive GOG's nod for light performance or lifetime upgrade policy. There are plenty of diamonds like this on their website, if the consumer doesn't choose it they will go back to the manufacturer and are only a virtual listing.
 
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