HELP PLS!!!Can you ask a vendor to price match the same stone???

[stephcola]

Hey guys,

I need a quick answer by the end of the day if possible. One of the stones I am seeing tomorrow has been listed online by atleast 5 other vendors. Most of the prices are less. THe average is $1250. less. Two vendors have the same price but 4 list it for less. If I am interested in this stone when I see it, can I ask the seller to reduce the price??? Should I refuse to buy from him if he doesn't make any accommodations??? If he returns it to the wholesaler, I could perhaps buy it for $1650. less. SInce I have never bought like this before, what is your advice. I will certainly ask for a better price, I just don't know how hard to push. ANy thoughts.
regards, Help please.

 

[magna2]

stephcola,

If you prefer to deal with the dealer that listed the diamond at a higher price, then do mention that another dealer is listing it at $xxxx and asked if they will match it. Chances are they will match.

Remember, the reason it is listed by multiple dealers is because these dealers do not have actual possession of the diamond but are just acting as brokers of the diamond.

Having said that, also note that one dealer might charge more than another is because that the higher priced dealer provides more service in the form of analysis and information than other dealers. You need to determine whether this is the case and then decide if that price difference is worth it to you if there are indeed more services provided.

 

[fire&ice]

Yeah, what Magna said. I think you have to think about the big picture. I will pay for service. The key is how much more. I don't shop for price. I shop for value. Is the vendor a member of Pricescope? If you mention pricescope, you get a discount.

Everyone has their own style. If it was me, I would say something likel "I really want to buy from you. Can you be more competitive to what is advertised?

 

[aljdewey]

By all means, it's fair to ask the seller to wiggle on the price. Keep in mind that if this is a B&M store, they may not be able to come as low as the online vendors.

But.....a suggestion. You shouldn't begin a price negotiation until you've 1) decided it's the stone you definitely want, and 2) that you'd be prepared to buy there if he gives you a satisfactory price. So many times, people try to get the price of the stone down, and they get the price they want and THEN say...."let me think about it!". Not fair at all to the vendor....don't waste his time or yours negotiating until you're sure you want that stone.

Bring along a printout of the other vendors' pricing on the stone, so you can show him that you're not just trying to bleed him down. $1250 is a huge savings, and I'm sure he'll respect that you're giving him the opportunity to get your business. (Forget about the $1650 wholesaler price.....it's unrealistic and real wholesalers won't sell to consumers.)

Beforehand, you should also research the "other stuff" for every vendor listing the stone.....what is their trade-up policy, what's the return policy (refund or exchange), how many days to return, ability to provide service, etc. If these other vendors cannot match what your face-to-face vendor has, then perhaps his price shouldn't be quite as low. You're paying for more than the ring.....you're paying for the service and the terms, too.

Also, will he charge you for the shipping to bring it in if you buy it? (Some vendors don't charge shipping if it results in a sale). If not, factor this into the end price too. If you get it from another vendor online, you'll likely have to pay for shipping, which eats into that $1250 savings.

If he's only willing to take off $50, I'd probably walk. If he's willing to give you a reasonable price for the stone that you can live with, even if it's not the entire $1250 less, then go for it.

Good luck - let us know how it works out.

 

[fire&ice]

Yeah, it's *really* considered poor form to haggle if you are not seriously interested. You loose all credibility.

If you walk away from his price (even if it is not in your liking), you have to be prepared to walk away from the stone all together. While listed on other sites, you really don't know the status on *this* particular stone. And, this jeweler may even own the stone. Some of those listings are stale.

That said, if it doesn't speak to you, there will be others. As I said, these things can take time. The wait is usually well worth the end result.

 

[stephcola]

Thank guys,

The dealer is not charging me to bring in a few stones. I like that type of service. I believe the shipping is free as well.

I will definitely not say a word unless I want to purchase the stone. If I do though, even giving a few hundred $$$$extra fo service and shipping, I think it would only be fair to get a price closer to the others. Two vendors (and I don't know anything about them) affordable and usa certed, are offering the same stone for $1650.less. Two others are 800 - 1250 less and one offers free shipping, one offers a price match. There are 2 who are also charging the same higher price. $1650. to me is a huge difference. Possibly half the way to a VS2 i/o an SI1!!! I think they said they taks a 7 - 8 % markup. Is this typical for online vendors??? What would be a reasonable percentage about cost for me to ask for???


If I love the stone I will purchase it but...knowing my husband, he will not buy if we don't have some price adjustment.

This company is an online dealer - which is how I found them - but also has a shop. I don't know if they will give a pricescope discount.

Just thought I would ask all of you your thoughts... I have printed out the pricescope listing where it details the others hawking it and for how much.
I'll let you know.

The BN diamond with similar ratings that you all have reviewed is also still available and for $800. less. I certainly have that option. I will keep you all posted. thanks and regards,

 

[fire&ice]

JMHO, if you love the stone & are comfortable with the level of service you receive, I'd buy it. Maybe it's me - but in the big scheme of things an extra 6% isn't that much. I rarely walk over the principle of not giving a discount - it's not the price - it's the value of what you are buying. And quite frankly, I gave my jeweler a "bonus" over what we agreed b/c his advice saved me a ton of money.

You said he was bringing in other stones? Perhaps those are not listed on PS and you don't have the same frame of reference.

Bottom line is if you are ready to buy - What is his best of best price for you? He may want your setting business as well.

That said, you should ask the question & be prepared for whatever the answer may be. Good luck.

 

[Mara]

I would definitely haggle! I would ask for something like $1k less. It's a huge amount, but if I didn't get and he wasn't reasonable, ...I would just go online and buy it from a vendor like USA CertEd who is really reputable and much cheaper. I am all about the best and fastest way to what I want in the end. I think its in the best interest of a B&M to realize that you are shopping around and if you find a better deal, they should price match or at least give you a fair reason of why they can't. If they state all the reasons that their price is x...and you don't agree..then you have other options. The good thing is that this stone IS available through online vendors, so for whatever reason if you don't get the discount, you can go elsewhere. Beauty of the internet.




Our offline jeweler knew we were shopping around and granted we had history with him and a good relationship, but I called him and told him...look we are shopping online but we want to extend the offer to you to help us as well if you think you can be competitive. It was totally his choice, I would not have been offended if he had said..wow those are such low prices, I can't compete...good luck though! But he didn't..he said..let me see what I can do..and brought in stones then matched the online price (probably about a good $1k less than his retail pricing). He got our setting biz and he probably overcharged for that slightly, but we didn't care...it was custom and it was that we didn't want to overpay on something we KNEW we could get for less elsehwere. If it's in black and white print, its harder to argue against trying to get that discount.




Its hard for me to be really sympathetic to B&M's who don't price match or at least act competitively, because I am in internet & ecommerce for a living, so my company and our site IS like the B&M (we are a manufacturer) who cannot ever compete with the discount sellers out there (Amazon, Buy.Com) on our own products. So we have to come up with innovative ways to get the customers business, or realize we are outmatched.




It's just business after all.

Shop smart.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/17/2003 4:57:39 PM Mara wrote:


but if I didn't get and he wasn't reasonable, ...I would just go online and buy it from a vendor like USA CertEd who is really reputable and much cheaper. I am all about the best and fastest way to what I want in the end. /smilies/1.gif'> Shop smart.
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But, a bird in the hand. I would not absolutely assume that this stone is available to any vendor. You never know what the plans are for this stone once it leaves the jeweler. Someone else could be in line for succession. If she is willing to take that chance, then she should walk. But, if I was completely sold on the stone, I would not walk over 1k, especially when buying in the 20k+ range.

That said, I'm all for asking the jeweler to be more competitive. But, with the luxury of viewing the stone & the possiblity of a longer standing relationship, I would not just pass & assume I can order it for cheaper.

We will all know soon enough what transpires. Good luck.

 

[Mara]

Even better..she gets in touch with USA CertEd now, and puts it on HOLD if they can get it.....so that even if she does walk away from the B&M jeweler, she will be next in line for that stone with USA CE.




Sneaky sneaky!!

 

[stephcola]

F & I , Mara,

Thanks for the input. I will say this is an online vendor who also happens to have a store. The online price is $400. less than what I was quoted but I have no qualms about asking for this. If I love the stone, I do plan to haggle - If there was a small price spread I would not. But even with $400. less, they arestill $1250 away from the least expensive. Also, I have already purchased my setting. I had my

previous setting remade for me. This vendor said setting would be no problem as he has inhouse jewelers. I do hope he will be negotiable because I am excited to see this stone. I just wanted to make sure in advance that people online do ask for discounts. I printed out the pricescope page with all the prices and I am ready for business. I will let you know my story on Monday. Thanks to both of you and all the other kind people who totally helped me through this process. I certainly could not have done it without you. Keep your fingers crossed for good luck!!! Regards,

 

[fire&ice]

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On 10/17/2003 7:44:02 PM stephcola wrote:

F & I , Mara,

Keep your fingers crossed for good luck!!! Regards,

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I will. But, if it's not all that & a bag of chips - remember there will be the *one* out there.

This, coming from a buyer who almost settled & *really* glad she didn't.

 

[Rhino]

Just some .02c from a vendors point of view.




Do any of ya'll realize what shipping costs to bring in a few 3ct stones over 20k a pop? And this guys gonna do it on his tab? This is THE EXACT reason why I stopped calling in stones on my tab. Last time I did I spent close to 1k calling in stones and spent hours (that led to mutliple visits consuming many hours of my time) then the guy would not buy unless I sold it to him at the 2-4% markup someone had it listed as from pricescope. That profit would not even cover the shipping expenses. That was the last time I did that. Don't get me wrong. I don't expect everyone who knocks on my door to buy but to take a large financial bath in the process is uncalled for as well.


When a vendor invests his time, monies, energies educating you, paying for shipping that can run into exhuberant amounts of shipping fees and hours of his time (maybe this guy doesn't value his time) on such a sale of this magnitude he is IMO earning his just keep. What you don't realize is that that vendor may indeed be making the same markup as the guy who has it marked up low except the B&M vendor is doing something for you that the "Internet only" guy can never do. You have to decide for yourself if you want to buy blindly (or from one who has very little experience) or do you want to be lead through this important decision with the help of a professional (not that I know the person you're dealing with is)?




Think on these things as you reflect on the whole picture...




Rhino

 

[Mara]

Rhino, this is precisely why I think it's important for the vendor to educate the buyer on WHY their prices are the way they are. Why is that same stone for $1600 more? That is a huge amount!




In this burgeoning internet age, many vendors need to make things clear to the customer. No one expects a vendor to take a bath or lose money on sale, whats the point there, you are in business to make money....but if they see a reputable online vendor selling the same stone that the B&M is marking up way beyond reasonable and the B&M vendor does not want to explain or give some runaround reasoning (as some B&M's really excel at), then it's a no brainer. But if the B&M was willing to negotiate to what they felt comfortable with and explained the reasoning and his costs, then I am sure most consumers would understand and then make the decision based upon the knowledge they have.




In this particular instance, having no idea who the internet vendor is..and knowing that stores like USA CertEd who has gotten good reviews on this forum have that same stone for significantly less, if *I* was in this scenario and was not happy with what the B&M overpriced guy tells me about his pricing and he wasn't willing to negotiate significantly, I would walk and review my other options. Diamonds are expensive and many people work on tight budgets, the price difference may be very significant in the scheme of things...and that should be taken into consideration along with all of the other reasons that go into making a final decision. I would never pay $1600 more for the same stone..I don't care what the reasoning is. Then again I probably would have done the research before and found out that the other vendors had it also, and looked into them first before calling the B&M.

My two cents...

 

[fire&ice]

Rhino, I am *completely* on board with what you are saying.

I do not know UScerted policy. I do know I would *never* do business w/ a vendor who simply drop ships a stone directly to the consumer from the cutter. Even if that service was offered to me at a savings cost. I, as a fair consumer, would never see the stone & simple order it from someone cheaper after the previous vendor incurred all the costs.

Also, one shouldn't not focus on $1600. While I tend to agree the amount on the table should be adjusted somewhat, one should look at the percentage ratio to purchase price. In other words, if someone was buying a stone in the 7k range, this 1.6K "extra" markup is unreasonable. In a stone in the 20K+ range, the "extra" percentage isn't "unreasonable".

But, it's all relative.

As an aside, it would seem that a vendor who is able to order in a few 3c stones has quite a bit of clout (and credit) in the diamond community.

 

[aljdewey]

I guess the most important point of this discussion is this: EVERYTHING comes with a cost/price.




If one wants the rock-bottom price, he can get it.....providing he's willing to accept the inherent risks that go along with that. He's willing to have a stone drop-shipped to him to evaluate that stone on its own merit without the benefit of side by side comparison.




If one wants the ability to see the stone in person, and to compare it with other like stones, and to have someone help them recognize and appreciate the nuances of those stones, then he has to be willing to PAY for that.




In reaching a price that both parties feel is an acceptable markup for that service, the vendor needs to clearly communicate what his costs are to provide such services (including labor, shipping, etc).




In short, it's unfair to expect full-service if one isn't willing to pay a bit more for it. This happens all the time in other instances. Full-service gas stations costs more than self-serve.....no one would pull into a full-serve bay, have the attendant pump the gas, and then expect the station to match the price being charged by a self-serve station down the street. Hiring a wedding planner costs more than doing it yourself. Anything that provides the service of a professional (or in the gas-station instances, the service of convenience to you) comes with an additional price.

 

[Rhino]

RIGHT! You see ... I've been where this vendor is and have taken mutliple baths until I got fed up with it. I respect Martin, DirtCheap, Abazias, etc. and the Inet only guys and they have gotten sales off the rebound off of vendors like me, NiceIce, DBOF, etc. The answer to the dilemma for me was to insist on a non-refundable deposit to at least cover my shipping. While I value my time way more than the shipping costs I offer my time, expertise, access to my lab equipment, etc. at no up front cost (not to mention our tradeup/buyback policies we'll back the stone with since we've taken such careful precautions in selecting the stone).




I was one of the more expensive vendors in this scenario but was apparently dropped because I do not let myself take these baths in shipping expenses any longer. Once the other B&M takes a bath or 2 he will know exactly why I do things the way I do them too and will eventually change his policy like we did. You can bank on that.

You see ... it's a very bogus situation because if the B&M does not

• educate the consumer (as Mara pointed out) why his prices are the way they are and
  
• match the lowest pricescope price

He ends up looking like a theif or attempting to take advantage of the consumer when in fact he's trying to recoup for his time & expenses servicing the client in question.

It came to the point in our business where I offer clients both options if I am to compete on the Internet market with the Inet only people. And is why, on our search engine we offer 2 different prices. A drop ship price and a full service price. If people are comfortable with no service, beyond a fax of a GIA or AGS report and a Sarin (if the supplier even has a Sarin, suprisingly most do not) then that saves me valuable time and expense which we pass along to the consumer ... just like the Inet only vendors. However since I am one of few vendors who offer this alternative (drop ship vs full service) I can tell you from experience that most consumers feel exactly the way fire&ice does. They see & understand the value in excellent service & policies and when given the choice, choose excellent service at a reasonable price.

And as fire&ice pointed out ... on a 6-7k sale, 1600 more is unreasonable. I feel the same way. But on sales in the mid 20k zone it really isn't.

The question that needs to be asked is what services are being rendered and what policies offered as well.

Part of the problem is people are comparing prices of excellent full service B&M stores with people sitting in their pajamas with very little investments and little to no service. While most stores/vendors choose one way or the other, we play both sides of the fence.

My .02c

Rhino

 

[fire&ice]

At the risk of Al *really* thinking I live in Fairy Tale World, we *actually* have a full service old timey gas station that is competitive, if not cheaper than pump it yourself places. But, then our local grocery store takes your groceries to your car.

That said, I mention this four 2 reasons. 1. At the end of the day, most shoppers are not "price only" shoppers. This particular grocery store is definitely not the cheapest. They are fair, have a very good quaranteed quality, & run good specials on whatever may be for dinner. This grocery store (large chain in our immediate area) has *no* competition & have run some really big boys out. Taking it a step further - Food Lion is not their competition - you will always have the shop by price only shopper (which may vary from thing to thing - person to person) 2. Often, by offering a full service (like the gas station), it's advertising for the repair shop - which is the best in town (I can not take my car there now as they do not do "warranty" work - but I'm one of those that keeps cars for years - they have *that* business).

Which brings up another point, no one would ask the grocery store what's their best price or question their pricing structure. Vendors dealing with diamonds/jewelry are subject pricing questions. I wonder if it's the power of knowledge from the internet or from Jeweler's reaping *huge* profit margins in the past or the simply the nature of the beast. But, at the end of the day, service & convenience has it's price. And, it's a price I add to the value of an item.

Also, I may be off base here; but, the people I know who have purchased from DCD had their stones looked at by them. Perhaps they should clarify this for us.

As an aside, shipping seems to be a real issue here (on the diamond forums). I would have no problem w/ being charged the shipping to have the luxury of viewing the stone/stones in person. It's the price to pay to get *exactly* what I want. I do not think this is the cost of doing business of a vendor. If the sale is consumated, then I think the vendor should bear this cost. Also, if it is a "regular" client of the vendor, then I *do* think it is the cost of maintaining a relationship. Also, if it is a regular "supplier" to the vendor, often the cost is absorbed on the supplier end. In that instance, I think since no cost is incurred, your time is the cost of doing business.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 10/19/2003 12:47:17 PM fire&ice wrote:

At the risk of Al *really* thinking I live in Fairy Tale World, we *actually* have a full service old timey gas station that is competitive, if not cheaper than pump it yourself places. But, then our local grocery store takes your groceries to your car.

HOLY COW.....really? Fairy Tale World??? I KNEW it.....you live in Mayberry RFD, doncha? LMAO.

Which brings up another point, no one would ask the grocery store what's their best price or question their pricing structure. Vendors dealing with diamonds/jewelry are subject pricing questions. I wonder if it's the power of knowledge from the internet or from Jeweler's reaping *huge* profit margins in the past or the simply the nature of the beast.

I don't really think the internet is the culprit. There are some goods that historically have always been "negotiable".....cars, for one, and yes, jewelry, too. However, I agree that service/terms, etc DO have a monetary value attached to them, and the older I get, the more it rings true "you get what you pay for". That doesn't mean there isn't still the capacity to overpay (Tiffany's in my estimation), but the lowest, lowest price is usually so for a reason. In fact, it often ends up being more expensive than other options by the time you add on the unexpected expenses that inevitably come with the "best" price.
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[fire&ice]

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On 10/20/2003 10:16:38 AM aljdewey wrote:

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On 10/19/2003 12:47:17 PM fire&ice wrote:
>HOLY COW.....really? Fairy Tale World??? I'd say you live in Mayberry RFD, doncha? LMAO----------------

More like Pleasantville

We haven't been an RFD in many years.