Help,PLEASE!!!

[roofman2004]

Need help,Please !!
So im getting ready to do this but im a little confused.I've done my research,have looked at stones at different jewelers and also online and here is my question. I have narrow it down to 3 stones,all GIA cert.and of excellent pol and sym
1) Is a 1.8ct,VS1,I color and excellent cut
2) Is a 1.72ct,VS2,H color and excellent cut
3) Is a 1.72ct,SI1,G color and excellent cut(clean to the eye)

All 3 stones are couple of hundreds within each other and all 3 within my budget,with stone #1 being the cheapest,stone #3 follows and stone #2 being the more expensive.So i figure the jeweler would try to sell me the more expensive one which is #2 less ct but better color than #1.I was wrong,he told me that stone #1 was a better stone all around,what gives?

Stone #3 is clean to the eye and much better color than#2 but his pick is #1 table and depth are very good in all stones.So to anybody out there than can help me out.I know ultimately is my decision and i have to go with what i like best but right now i just want to make some sense of this.any advice would be greatly appreciated.
roofman

 

[Fife]

What do they cost? From where are you buying them? Are there photos available?

What are the dates on the GIA certs? If they're old, the diamonds may have been used before.

Do you have links?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

We do need to see the GIA reports (or all the information off of them) to determine if any are better cut than the others.

 

[roofman2004]

Hi guys,thank you for the prompt replies!

Here are the stones I was talking about
1) bluenile.com/Round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-I-color-vs1-clarity_LD02641107
2) bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD02670474
3) bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-h-color-vs2-clarity_LD02672495

I checked the numbers and measurements and with the research I've done they seem pretty good........but then,what do I know

 

[roofman2004]

Hey I was wondering if anybody had a chance to take alook at the stones that I posted, I'm still debating on which stone is the better value if I go with what I ve researched I'm thinking it would be the g color SI1 or even the h color vs2 but like I said in my earlier post BN is telling me that the better value is the I color,vs1 which it also happened to be the cheapest one.the date on this one particular stone is may 24th 2012. If anybody can advise me as to what are your thoughts it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[2023]

Hi roofman, I am sure pple with tons of experience will chime in soon.

Just letting you know your G stone is coming up as a 1.5 not sure if that is a typo? Just a guess they could be suggesting the I stone to you is becuase the I is slightly better cut to ideal proportions than the H (The pavilion angle and pavilion depth is slightly better.) They are VS stones so its not so much of a concern, but the H stone inclusions are in the centre of the table and the I stone inclusions are to the side (however as said they are VS anyway). The I has no fluor as well the H had a little (can't remember how much). Hard to comment on the G as I don't know if the one you posted was the one you meant to post...

Did the vendor explain to you why they thought that? I am also interested to hear what others say on your stone selections.

 

[roofman2004]

Hi 2023! Thank you for your reply. The g color stone I looked was a 1.72 so I'm not sure what the change may be, but I will definetly bake sure if I decide to go with that one.more that you tell me that the I color looks better because of pavilion depth and widht it makes sense that he would say that and I could have taken that for an answer but the only thing he said it was that it was a better stone ask around buy that was it.would you be able to advice me or direct me in the right direction as to what I'm looking for as far as pavillion width and depth? Maybe a website.i thought I had done my homework but obviously haven't done enough.i really thought if I had a GIA Cert stone with excellent cut I would be ok, but I guess not. One more thing if I decided to go with something a bit larger, do you think I can still go with an I color our is it gons show more yellow than a smaller stone would and I think I would be safe in the vs clarity even though I read I can even go to SI1. I looked at a couple of them and I could see some inclusions in it with the aide of a magnifing lens so not sure that I want to go that low. Thank you again

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Okay, I don't love the G or H stones. The I color stone looks safest to me in terms of the numbers plus you don't have to worry about the clarity, but I honestly would rather have G or H color. Have you looked at James Allen or anywhere else?

This is what you linked for the G stone:

http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_LD02670474

(Look for pavilion angles generally between 40.6 and 41.0.)

 

[2023]

This is a link to a paper pairing crown and pavilion angles in GIA ex cuts and AGS ideal cuts, and even overlapping the two labs, so you can see where their agreement is (just based only on crown and pavilion angles), they use it based on a diamond table of 56%.
http://www.acagemlab.com/news/JoG07305.pdf

This is a paper looking at what GIA grades as Ex/VG etc looking at different tables, crown and pavilion.
http://www.gia.edu/diamondcut/pdf/booklet_cut_estimation_tables_lowres.pdf

Remember when a diamond is classified as Excellent or Ideal, there are a whole host of other parameters that make it beautiful, these papers only look at two things, crown and pavilion angles.

There are also parameters for attributes such as pavilion depth and crown depth as well - but most people on here seem to discuss crown and pavilion angles.

You are right, get the best cut stone you can find. Don't get too obssessed over tiny amounts, but it could be useful to try to stay within a certain zone. That zone you choose may be helped by the above article. Already even discussing angles, you are well infront of the average consumer.

With regards to colour, with a larger stone, yes, it may be nice to go up in colour, as when the diamonds do get bigger you may start to see more 'warmth' creeping in. Having said that, Tiffany stocks I coloured diamonds. G would be nice, but then you will start to sacrifice size. I would prefer G lowest H.

With regards to clarity, for the larger the diamonds, VS2 is safer (as its guaranteed eye clean), but with some searching if you can find an eye clean SI1 that would be fantastic deal and help you trade off some price.

I've even seen people on this forum recommend diamonds for people that are J coloured S12s, I personally would not go there at all, and prefer a diamond of a higher colour and clarity, but maybe these particular diamonds are a real steal (for some reason) - though I would personally not want a J, SI2.

With regards to fluor, some people on here love it. Again, using Tiffany as an example, they do not stock diamonds with fluor, however some people believe that a fluor stone is a great bargain, and can make a diamond face up whiter. There's different types of fluor which all behave differently...I would stay away from flour because I don't know enough about it (but thats just me!)

I hope some of this information may help you. Remember its just my opinion

 

[roofman2004]

Thank you diamondseeker and 2023! I apoligize for giving the wrong info, the right stone is LD02670471 but it's probably not gonna be much different than the other g color.your comments are really helpful,i didnt think I would need that much info to get the right stone but oh man.i obviously want to make the right choice just really exhausted.like I said before I never wanted to go as low as si1 even though some people say it should not be a problem.i've looked at many stones and right nite they are ask starting to look the same.that s why I thought with the info in hand I can find something online better and cheaper.i did try JA but their prices are a bit higher than BN.now I know you provided me with some reading material but before I log off I wil ask just in case I dont find that info.how are you the pavilion and crown#'s,i looked at the GIA CERT but dont see any numbers like you mention.thank you

 

[2023]

On the GIA certs that you have there is a diagram of a diamond on it showing all the proportions and angles etc. The crown angle is the angle between the horizontal plane and the top part of the diamond, the pavilion angle is between the horizontal plane and the bottom half of the diamond. Thats an odd explanation...which probably doesn't make much sense at all If you google crown angle images diamond, I am sure it will show you in a diagram! Interesting that you saw a price diff between BN and JA...I thought I noticed that too.

 

[Christina...]

Just wanted to mention that all VS2's are not guaranteed to be 'eye clean'. The larger the stone the larger the allowable size of the inclusions. Eye clean is also evaluated in the face up position, so while you may not be able to see an inclusion when viewing your stone from that angle, you may still be able to see an inclusion through the pavilion. If you want to be sure that you will be unable to see any inclusion from any angle or distance then you should communicate that to your vendor and have the stone evaluate under those conditions.

Of course VS2's are a safer bet, but we have seen VS2's that would not be considered eye clean to many of us, and some SI's that have been. It's really dependent upon the type of inclusion and location. We should be careful making blanket statements that guarantee a certain level of eye cleanliness.

 

[2023]

Guaranteed was probably too strong a word, sorry Christina!

From my understanding a VS1/2 is a stone where the inclusion can be found by a 10x loupe but it takes the jeweller a little longer to spot them, whether it's the nature of the inclusion/s, how many there are, where they are located etc and...are in general eye clean. SI1 and SI2 stones also need a 10x loupe to see the inclusions but they are easier to spot, SI1 stones can also be eye clean and are a popular choice as the visual difference between SI1 and VS2 is not in most cases discernible.

There are lots of different types of inclusions, VS1/2 stones have less of them.

Anyhow hope that helps a bit!

 

[roofman2004]

Hey guys,I'm back

I want to thank you all for the great advice you have given me so far.the amount of info out there is overwhelming and if it wasnt for people like you this process would be that much more stressfull.Anyway like I said in my previous posts I have looked around at local jewelers stores and also online and i am definitely buying online,lots of people don't agree with me and I don't know if this is the right choice but.......it's my choice,right? Local jewelers are just that much more expensive,don't know if that applies for every state/country but here in the tri state area definitely the case. Wanted to look at some stones on my own to see if I could see the diff between an I color and a G or H and also to look at some of the diff in clarity.I saw some SI1 and some VS1/2 and to be honest, I was able to see some inclusions on the SI1 not to naked eye but I could see them with aide.bottom line I feel much more comfortable with VS 1/2,color wise I think the I color is not a bad deal,I can see a very faint yellow but I don't think it's that much diff from a H color(that's only my opinion) don't know if it's the lighting in the stores or what,but if I take the stones outside I can't really see any yellow.
So here is my question....I been reading about crowns and pavilions % and angles and all that good stuff.......not.(thanks for the links 2023)they were very helpful. And doing that research I came to the conclusion that the stones that I'm looking at even though they are all diff in table% and crown angles and pavilion depths, they are all in there,within the pretty good stones if I'm looking at this charts the right way,so I have this 3 diff stones,one of them you guys are familiar with and 2 new ones and I would like your opinion on them.They are all from BN And yes 2023 there's definitely a diff in price between BN and JA

stone #1 BN LD02632453
stone#2 BN LD02668889
stone#3 BN LD2641107

Narrowed it down to those 3 please let me know what you guys think.....when you get a chance of course
Thank you all

 

[2023]

Hi Roofman, I will have a look later, just did a search for another poster and am a bit tired! Am glad the info was useful also the BN vs JA, am interested other people see that too, I did say something on a previous post and got an answer by JA (quite scary!). My husband doesn't understand why I cared to bother pointing it out, and there are benefits to JA with images etc, I just commented on what I noticed.

Great you made your mind up with clarity, one thing I would add though, as it sounds like I colour is your choice, see what happens if you do go to an H. See how much you do you sacrifice in size...at the sizes you are looking at anything over 1.5 is big and it may be worth the higher colour.

What size finger is your girlfriend? Coverage is important to consider, if she has size 4 fingers is different vs size 8...

 

[2023]

I like stone number 1 the most from what you posted, your third one is missing a number though so I couldn't find it.

I found this one too which is a G colour:
1.63 G VS2 ex ex ex GIA no Fluor. The I to the G will be quite noticeable in brightness, and the G is so close to the the colourless range I think it's worth it. Because your stone is so large I would recommend a higher color.

I know you thought from I to H you couldn't see too much, and people struggle to see a difference from H to G, but from I to G you will.  I know I can see that difference in diamonds.  From memory the price increase from H to G is less than from I to H, so if you went from I to G, its good value (if that make sense)

The proportions look good in the stone I'm discussing, pav angle 41, crown angle 35, table percent 58 and depth 43.5
Face up size 7.49-7.51mm
Stock number: LD02605246
Price 16730

You will be sacrificing 0.4mm in size in the face up view from 1.63-1.88 carat.  However I think the difference you will get in color from I to G will make difference on the stone and in my opinion is definitely worth the sacrifice in a bit of carat weight to get that color as you as over 1.5 carat is a very substantial size stone already. 

Remember stones even look bigger when set, and a 7.5mm stone set in say a six prong setting is going to be huge!!!  Especially if your GF is a size 4 or something.

Let me know how you go

 

[roofman2004]

Hi 2023!

I apologize for providing half of the info,i seem to do that a lot. Stone#3 was LD02641107.
And the search continues . Well here is my problem,originally i was looking for a 2ct Stone and by doing my research i found out that once you reach that 2ct mark the price goes way up or at least way out of my price range,so the search changed to 1,99ct and under.now the reason for that is because i know that she wants 2ct not because she has told me that but that's what i found out by asking her sister and best friend.she is very humble and i don't think she would ever tell me that but i would really like to give her what she wants or as close as i can so when i started the search for the stone i realize i was going to have to compromise on some of the things in order to get a better quality stone and that's how i got to 1.7/1.8,i would love to get a stone like the one you mentioned in your post and i know you are not going to see the diff between a 1.63 and a 1.72 or even 1.80. but from 1.63 to 1.99 which is where i would really like to be,you 'll probably see a little difference.You know,she is an Atty and the girls that work with her all have these descent size rings so im hoping to get her something pretty close to them.Trust me,i know the thinking behind it is extra silly but...what to do? i followed your advice and looked at different stones,G stones that is,and a bit bigger than the one you showed me and the cheapest g i found was $20263 now i realize is .17ct bigger but i think i have to stay within that range.......So i don't.
By the way she is a size 6 ring.I also have to think about the setting which is probably going to cost me another $1500 im thinking.but if you really think that you'll be able to see yellow,then maybe i should save more money and go at least with an H which i also looked at some today and the cheapest 1.8 was $18210 i think i can push up to $17000 for the stone but not higher than that.

Now please don't think i don't appreciate your input because i do and i also appreciate all your help.If it was me i would love to get a g color which there was one we talked about before but it was an SI1 and to be honest it scares me.So im really not sure now.

 

[2023]

Don't stress and no sad faces!!!

Cool, you need size no worries, just sacrifice on clarity, there are eye clean SI1s and that may help you go up a colour grade.

Christina just posted this on another thread, I didnt know this was an option, sounds great!

"if you were interested in a particular stone from BN, you could ask ID Jewelry to call the stone in for you. They can evaluate the stone and supply you images, they also guarantee that they will beat BNs price. Many PSers that have wanted to stretch their budgets have had great success at IDJ. You may want to contact Yukitiel and tell him your budget and what your parameters are and ask if he can make a suggestion. Let him know that your a PS, that way he will know that you are looking for a bright lively well cut stone, and will base his search on our picky criteria. "

See if you can select a couple H/GSI1s then and they can assess if they are eyeclean. I'm unsure what their policies are but it cant hurt to give them a call! and also see if they can call in your IVS2, an ex cut stone an I should still face up white, just warmer than G.

Let us know how you go with IDjewellery as I didnt know they did that!

 

[2023]

Why is the setting 1500? If you are really pushing for size, why not just get a simple 6 prong platinum solitaire for a few hundred dollars? Then you have an extra 1k for the ring? You can always upgrade the setting later if you really want.

 

[atp223]

I just wanted to chime in that I have a 2.05 carat I with medium blue fluorescence from brian gavin and I don't notice the color at all. If you gf wants close to 2 carats and you have to cut corners somewhere, I think an excellent cut I, particularly with fluoro if you can find it, would be more budget-friendly and still beautiful.

 

[roofman2004]

Hi everybody,I'm back!

Well I'm still here and still researching,looking at diff options and taking into consideration all the great advice I have gotten from you guys.
I ended up going to ID JEWELERS on my own and they were very nice and helpfully but their prices were still higher which I understand because leases etc,etc.so I did ask if they could call a stone for me instead and they were willing to do that for me but he asked to narrow my search a bit which I could also understand because I had a few stones that I wanted to look at.He also told me that ultimately is going to be my choice,now everybody tells me the same thing and I know that picking the right stone is going to be my choice but by looking to diff stones some of G,H and I colors of course you can see a tiny bit of difference in color if you put them next to each other but to be honest not sure that everybody can pick out an I stone every time,that being said I'm not sure even my girlfriend would be able to do that and that is why I have been getting your opinion
I have been looking for something that is as well balanced as possible and within the budget of course and what is giving problems the most is color and clarity,I would love to get a G color stone or H or even an I if it meets the rest of criteria,im even willing to go down to SI 1 which a lot of people are telling me no to do it but others are telling me to sacrifice in clarity to get color( I asked ID JEWELERS and his answer was that its pretty much my choice)so I have gathered stones of all 3 colors(G,H,I)and clarity(VS1,VS2,IS1) before I go back to ID JEWELERS would any of you mind looking at them and tell me what you think.Looked at crown and pavilions also looked at tables and depths of this stones and they are all within the excellent rating by the GIA Chart I got from 2023 some closer to VG than other but not sure I want to start doing lots of research on that at this point cause I'll definitely drive myself crazy.
And here they are : 1)LD02670471,2)LD02658484,3)LD02120115,4)LD02661702,5)LD02641107 and 6)LD02416121. There's 2 G's,2H's and 2I's.
Cool,thank you

 

[Dougsgirl]

One more quick opinion for you...

I have a 1.87 ct AVC (cushion cut) that is J color and SI1. I, personally love the color! It is bright white in the sunlight, and slightly "vanilla" in some indoor lights. But never 'yellow". And I have TRIED to see an inclusion but I absolutely cannot. Totally eye-clean!

Don't be afraid of the I color, SI1. Just be sure it's eye-clean.

Here is my J... (Just to give you a "real life" idea of the color)
And this is also how a 1.87ct looks on a 4.5 finger. I am a "size" girl also, and I preferred a lower color and a larger diamond!






Good luck!!!

 

[2023]

Hi Roofman, thats a real shame that the prices were marked up at ID jewellery, I got that info from another thread, thanks for reposting your experiences, its good to know. The best part is you saw all the G, H and I colours and you seem really comfortable with I.

Dougs girl your ring is beautiful.

Roofman, the 1.8 I VS2 looked really great to me. The inclusion plot was so clean in the table, the size was good. The 1.71 G SI1.

I think we've been really honest with each other and I really dont like seeing you so stressed. I think seriously consider the IVS2 1.8 from Blue Nile and the 1.71 GSI1. but maybe also consider this. Start a new thread with your budget and your size requirements. Thats all. Its not an area I've ventured into J coloured stones or SI2 stones or stones with fluorescence but I have seen people buy J SI2s with medium/strong fluor on here. They will most likely advise the internet sellers they are comfortable with, James Allen, GOG, WF, BGD etc but will help you get IS images etc. There seems to be an affiliation with certain companies and I have to admit it has crossed my mind there are posters affiliated with certain companies. I dont know that for certain so I hope I dont get censored. You may simply not be getting help with BN because no one is comfortable with them as there are no images to help them. As you mentioned in a previous post too you did notice a price discrepancy, but you may be able to make up for it with dropping another quality. Cut is priority either way but you have lots of information already on that.

Im kind of hoping you get to buy a stone from BN so you can assess it with your own eyes see how beautiful it is and then all the worry will just go away. There is a return policy on BN. Really please post back with how you go, especially if you do go ahead with the 1.8 or 1.71 please let us know what you thought of it in person.

 

[0-0-0]

I think it's great that you get to see and compare stones in person! If you are working with IDJ, make sure to let them know that you found them through PS. They may consider price matching.

Of your picks, I think the 1.8 ct I VS1 looks like the safest choice based on the report.
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-i-color-vs1-clarity_ld02641107

The 1.71 ct G SI1 may be OK too depending on how the numbers are rounded and how precisely the stone is cut.
http://www.bluenile.com/round-diamond-1-carat-ideal-cut-g-color-si1-clarity_ld02658484

If IDJ can bring those in for you to compare in person, just pick the one that catches your eye more.

IMO the other picks are less likely to be eye clean and as well cut.

 

[2023]

Thanks thmbok for chiming in

I'm hoping now there are direct links to the certificates people will chime in as it's easier to look up the stones.

Also I read you don't want to go crazy with more info, you have some great stones selected so I am thinking now you should not post another thread.

Cannot wait to when you buy a stone and give us your feedback!!!

So very very exciting!!! They are great sounding diamonds!!!

 

[Christina...]

Hi everybody,I'm back!

Well I'm still here and still researching,looking at diff options and taking into consideration all the great advice I have gotten from you guys.
I ended up going to ID JEWELERS on my own and they were very nice and helpfully but their prices were still higher which I understand because leases etc,etc.so I did ask if they could call a stone for me instead and they were willing to do that for me but he asked to narrow my search a bit which I could also understand because I had a few stones that I wanted to look at.He also told me that ultimately is going to be my choice,now everybody tells me the same thing and I know that picking the right stone is going to be my choice but by looking to diff stones some of G,H and I colors of course you can see a tiny bit of difference in color if you put them next to each other but to be honest not sure that everybody can pick out an I stone every time,that being said I'm not sure even my girlfriend would be able to do that and that is why I have been getting your opinion
I have been looking for something that is as well balanced as possible and within the budget of course and what is giving problems the most is color and clarity,I would love to get a G color stone or H or even an I if it meets the rest of criteria,im even willing to go down to SI 1 which a lot of people are telling me no to do it but others are telling me to sacrifice in clarity to get color( I asked ID JEWELERS and his answer was that its pretty much my choice)so I have gathered stones of all 3 colors(G,H,I)and clarity(VS1,VS2,IS1) before I go back to ID JEWELERS would any of you mind looking at them and tell me what you think.Looked at crown and pavilions also looked at tables and depths of this stones and they are all within the excellent rating by the GIA Chart I got from 2023 some closer to VG than other but not sure I want to start doing lots of research on that at this point cause I'll definitely drive myself crazy.
And here they are : 1)LD02670471,2)LD02658484,3)LD02120115,4)LD02661702,5)LD02641107 and 6)LD02416121. There's 2 G's,2H's and 2I's.
Cool,thank you

Hi roofman. I just wanted to mention that IDJ has a best price program listed on their website..

http://idjewelryonline.com/best_price.php

You mentioned that their prices seemed to be more expensive than others that you looked at,and I'm wondering if there has been some confusion. Were you comparing like stones? Did they specifically say that it would cost you more to purchase the BN stone from them? I'm sure that if you mentioned the price guarantee and that you were a PSer that they would work with you, they've done so many many times with other members. I'm just thinking that it would be an ideal way of getting all the information that you need to make an informed decision. We can help you narrow your choices if you'd like.

ETA I just saw that tbmok helped you narrow down your choices. Looking forward to hearing what you decided!