Help on this diamonds Brilliance, Fire and Scintillation???

[ajm]

Hi,
First I would like to say I have been reading through these posts and find it very informative with alot of helpful people!! I think i have found a diamond. I have the specs and wonder if anyone has any comments on its light return especially fire, brilliance, scintillation etc. I have tried the halloway cut advisor and it came out 1.4, although I am not too sure if I am interpreting the results correctly, without seeing it yet. Thanks in advance!!

AGS 0
Polish = Ideal
Symmetry = Ideal
Proportions = = Ideal
Measurements = 7.57 x 7.58 x 4.64
Carat = 1.6
Table = 54%
Depth = 61.3%
Crown Angle = 34.8%
Pavillion Angle = 40.8%
Girdle = Thin to medium ( .5% - 1.7% )
Flourescence = Negligible

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

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On 8/24/2003 9:56:18 PM ajm wrote:
Hi,
First I would like to say I have been reading through these posts and find it very informative with alot of helpful people!! I think i have found a diamond. I have the specs and wonder if anyone has any comments on its light return especially fire, brilliance, scintillation etc. I have tried the halloway cut advisor and it came out 1.4, although I am not too sure if I am interpreting the results correctly, without seeing it yet. Thanks in advance!!



Ajm:

Hello and welcome to the forum. You should look to an independent appraiser to get your stone checked out. There are preliminary processes involved in selecting your diamond like using Dave Atlas's cut charts and Garry Holloways HCA you can do yourself. You post Sarin Results generated from your stone and I think this is good when making a preliminary decision based on the proportions of your diamond.

There are a couple real life tools which evaluate a diamonds light return and also light leakage, giving you insight into the internal cut analysis of your diamond. One device is the Ideal scope and the other is the Brilliance scope marketed by the Gem-ex corporation. You can buy an ideal-scope yourself and they are available to the public. Through the use of the ideal scope you can see not only light return vs. light leakage but also the intensity of that light return and how much of it is present within the stone and where the leakage is occurring when viewing your diamond under the device.

The brilliance scope is a expensive device which evaluates the 3 categories of fire, brilliance and scintillation. The Brilliance-Scope moves a light source along a predetermined arc across the face of the diamond, and takes digital images of the diamond at five predetermined positions along that arc. It then calculates the amount of white/colored light present at each position by counting the number of "white" pixels and the number of "colored" (luminous non-white) pixels. These values are used to determine the bar graph ratings. The difference in the pixel count from image to image is used to determine the "scintillation" value/bar. The brilliance scope is expensive and is used by professionals including vendors and appraisers using the device to either market a diamond or (2) assess the performance of the results to include in the appraisal.

In summary I think to get a proper evaluation you should seek out the services of an independent appraiser who will evaluate all the aspects of your diamond and the procedures involved including asssessing all the results of your sarin data and the optical analysis of your stone...

Click on the link to the right for a list of competent appraisers: appraisers

Click on the link to the right to get all the info you need: ideal-scope

Post more questions if you need help...

-Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Hi AJM. This should be an excellent stone. It exhibits top numbers on the DiamCalc Light Return Analysis, and has a great simulated IdealScope image.

A POSSIBLE image is recreated with the DiamCalc software showing the following light return analysis:

Light Return (mono)…...: 1.00 Very Good
Light Return (stereo)…..: 0.99 Very Good
(Non) Leakage (mono)..: 1.01 Very Good
(Non) Leakage (stereo).: 0.97 Very Good
Contrast............................: 0.98 Very Good
(Non) FishEye Effect…...: 1.00 Very Good

-----------
IdealScope- In general, the darker pink areas indicate areas of greater light return, with the lighter pink areas indicating areas of lesser light return. The black areas indicate areas of greater contrast, with the gray areas indicating areas of lesser contrast. The white areas indicate areas of light leakage. A good explanation of the IdealScope image along with examples can be found at https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

Disclaimer- The facet arrangement and symmetry of the image will probably vary from your actual diamond, which may affect the light performance indicated, sometimes dramatically. The computer generates an image with “perfect” symmetry, which is rare. Also, the star/lower girdle facet lengths will probably be different from your diamond. The computer simulation is reproduced best when the actual diamond is being viewed and the image "tweaked" to the appearance of the diamond, or Sarin info is downloaded directly into the program. However, this "blind" reproduction should be helpful in considering the major light performance aspects.
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[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

My first post for ages (Leonid has posted for me a couple of times - since I was deleted from DT i have not been able to post on Pricescope either???)

ajm you have gotten hundreds of dollars of free service

Nice stone.

 

[ajm]

Thanks to all of you, Rich Josh and cut nut for the very helpful comments and analysis!!! I have been eyeing this diamond on the internet after a month of research and searching. I have placed the order today and will receive it next week. I also plan to take to one of the independent appraisers recommended by this site!! I will post some pics when I receive it!! This really is a one-stop shop! Thanks again!!
-Ajm

 

[bling]

Is there a way that someone can run my stone through the diamondcalc? thanks!

 

[Colored Gemstone Nut]

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On 8/25/2003 9:33:29 AM ajm wrote:
This really is a one-stop shop! Thanks again!!
-Ajm----------------

AJM:

I am glad you are finding the forum a pleasant place to learn about your diamond and get some constructive feedback on your purchase. We want you to keep coming back and learning if your interested though, and would welcome you to make this place more than a "one-stop shop" for yourself......

Warm Regards-

Josh Rioux
Sitka, Alaska

 

[gemexplorer]

That is why I want to salute the creator or creators of this forum. Even myself as a jeweler had found the many benefits of the kind of information given in here and there are just the many professionals who are not afraid of this "transparency" in educating the public as well as "professionals" like ourselves who need to be "brushing up" every now and then.

But the rule of technology must go along with the "intuitive" sense of any individual buyer to watch, look and analyse with their own intuitive sense before to be "locked" in to all of the terminologies... the factors of scintillation, dispersion, or fire or brilliances at times can be very objective. But there are now vehicles like here and in the Holloway's expression of a good cut gem will continue to educate the public and to foster the "professionalism" of any jewelers and gem dealers.

The future of gems and diamonds does look bright and promising versus the lack of consumer "recourse" in buying bad gems or phony gems.


Salute to all the incoming and exiting technologies to give consumer the "recourse" or better yet - forewarn the consumer and "educate" consumers to a better buy with solid orientation and education.

And forum like this is a "must" for all.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

--------
Is there a way that someone can run my stone through the diamondcalc?
thanks!
--------

Sure Bling, what's the specs?

 

[bling]

thanks!

Polish - EX
Symetry - EX
Measurements- 6.48x6.51x3.98
Carat - 1.01
Table - 55%
Depth - 61.4%
Crown Angle - 34.5
Pavillion Angle - 40.9
Culet - 0.6
Girdle - thin to slightly thick (0.9-2.1)
Flour - none

Is that all the info you need? thanks

 

[Rhino]

Greetings friends,

While I don't doubt you'll have a nicely reflective stone there I would not advise the experts here to make predictions regarding the specific components of brilliance, fire & scintillation. There are the measurements of 40 other facets and optical symmetry to be considered which simply can not be assessed by the information you've given. The length/height of the lower girdle facets, length of the stars and upper girdle angles can greatly affect the appearance of the diamond in question which can affect it's appearance in all light conditions. Forgive me for being a stickler but I've seen diamonds of the same exact measurements (based on the common 18 reported on a Sarin/AGS Report) have completely different optical results with regards to brilliance, fire and scintillation.

My comments would be that it sounds like you have picked a winner "in general". How much fire, scintillation, etc. it has you need to have it checked by a pro if you care to get that specific.

My .02c,
Rhino

 

[Richard Sherwood]

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I would not advise the experts here to make
predictions regarding the specific components of
brilliance, fire & scintillation.
----------

Come on Rhino, stop being such a stick-in-the-mud. The people here are looking for direction, and there's nothing wrong with giving them an educated opinion on how their stone is PROBABLY going to look.

-----------
Forgive me for being a stickler but I've seen
diamonds of the same exact measurements (based on
the common 18 reported on a Sarin/AGS Report) have
completely different optical results with regards to
brilliance, fire and scintillation.
-----------

Yes, but I would bet this is probably not the norm, but the exception, right? Usually the diamonds which have similar dimensions have similar light performances, right? I know there's always nuances of difference, but usually the DiamCalc program does a pretty good (make that an excellent) job of putting the numbers in the right ballpark.

The majority of diamonds don't fall to the "extremes" in their star and lower girdle lengths, etc. They fall more in a standardized range, and those ranges are what is usually addressed here. If someone has a stone with minor facet measurements falling to an extreme range then it might not fit the profile offered, but does that warrant not posting profiles at all?

As I've heard Dave Atlas say, some information is better than no information. Take the stone listed above for example. With that combination of measurements the chances are pretty darn slim that it's going to be a dog. Confirming that (with disclaimers) gives the consumer peace of mind that the stone is not a "steep & deep" stone with the dreaded "ring of death", or some such other diamond cut debacle.

With two stones having the same major dimensions and radically different light performances, I would expect at least one of them to have minor facet differences which fall way out of the normal range usually encountered.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Take Bling's stone here as another example. With that nice high crown (15.5%), small table (55%), and righteous crown angle (34.5'), you know the stone is going to have great fire.

With the 40.9' pavilion angle combined with the 34.5' crown angle you know that you're going to have great brilliance and minimal light leakage. No "steep & deep" syndrome and no "ring of death".

It's also a certainty that the stone does not lean at all towards having a fisheye effect, and chances are pretty good that it has great contrast.

In addition, with an "excellent" symmetry, you know the chances are reasonable that the diamond has good optical symmetry. Maybe not Hearts & Arrows, but good optical symmetry nonetheless.

These are all reasonable assumptions. A good educated guess. Should we disseminate that information to someone who's considering a mult-thousand dollar purchase, or just say that the diamond looks "generally good"?

-----------

Bling, here's the POSSIBLE DiamCalc Light Return Analysis for that stone, along with a POSSIBLE simulated IdealScope image. This is most likely an amazing stone.

Light Return (mono)…...: 1.00 Very Good
Light Return (stereo)…..: 0.98 Very Good
(Non) Leakage (mono)..: 1.00 Very Good
(Non) Leakage (stereo).: 0.97 Very Good
Contrast............................: 0.96 Very Good
(Non) FishEye Effect…...: 1.00 Very Good

-----------
IdealScope- In general, the darker pink areas indicate areas of greater light return, with the lighter pink areas indicating areas of lesser light return. The black areas indicate areas of greater contrast, with the gray areas indicating areas of lesser contrast. The white areas indicate areas of light leakage. A good explanation of the IdealScope image along with examples can be found at https://www.pricescope.com/idealscope_indx.asp

Disclaimer- The facet arrangement and symmetry of the image will probably vary from your actual diamond, which may affect the light performance indicated, sometimes dramatically. The computer generates an image with “perfect” symmetry, which is rare. Also, the star/lower girdle facet lengths will probably be different from your diamond. The computer simulation is reproduced best when the actual diamond is being viewed and the image "tweaked" to the appearance of the diamond, or Sarin info is downloaded directly into the program. However, this "blind" reproduction should be helpful in considering the major light performance aspects.
-----------

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Could not agree more Rich - so I have done a little homework to make the point on a new thread titled Minor facets = Minor Effects.

 

[DBOF]

How can 2/3 rd`s of the facets on a diamond be minor anyways ?

Looks like the majority.

All the facets matter and effect how the diamond *looks*, otherwise they wouldn`t be there at all. Single cuts don`t look like full cuts do they ?

Can`t ignore the majority, I mean minority

. Facets can vary in size, length,placement, etc, this effects how the diamond *looks* as well.


Brad