Help on Black Diamonds! TIA

[lucybeixie]

Hi Experts,

I'm looking for a 4ct + black diamond in pear shape... I came across on ebay but are price ranged very cheap and are stating natural but color enhanced with AAA quality... I'm not really familiar with black diamonds, so here I am hoping to hear some thoughts from you guys and where I can find a decent quality black diamond.

Thanks!

 

[ChristineRose]

Most black diamonds are otherwise unattractive stones that have been irradiated. Naturally black diamonds are very rare and expensive. Marginal diamonds are common and cheap, so nobody is growing synthetics and blackening them so far as I know. Therefore you can assume all black diamonds are natural and irradiated unless they are outright fakes. Fakes are not super-common though, even on e-bay.

Are you looking to buy a truly natural stone or are you looking for one that is irradiated? If the former, I wouldn't start with e-bay. I'd assume that anything that claims to be a natural black is fraudulent.

 

[kenny]

If a black diamond does not have a GIA report assume it is not fully natural.
Sellers know they can get MUCH more money with a GIA report, so if it's natural they'd be crazy to throw away a bunch of money by not getting it graded by GIA.

IOW, if you want a black diamond that is fully natural, both in material and color, be sure to only consider those graded so by GIA.

Leibish sells them, and only the fully natural ones.
If you don't see your size contact them to see if they can get what you're looking for.

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/black_diamonds#.UgAgrxbA4qY

After buying 20 FCDs from them I can say that they are very reputable.

 

[GliderPoss]

Have you thought about Black Spinel instead? http://www.bespoke-gems.com/SacredGeometrics_Gemstones_BlackSpinel.php

Looks lovely and glossy, its natural and Doug could probably cut you any size & shape you require!

 

[kenny]

Buyer beware ...

With Fancy Colored Diamonds, including black, there are TWO things that can be natural, or not.
1. the material itself can be mined from the earth, or grown in a lab.
2. The color can be just as it came out of the earth, or modified in a lab.

Unethical sellers, and there are plenty, advertise colored diamonds as natural when only the material itself is natural.
IOW, mined natural diamonds that had their color treated.
This lack of disclosure is deceptive.

There's nothing wrong with diamonds that were grown in a lab, or diamonds from the earth with treated color.
If you are happy with that don't waste your money paying more for a fully natural one per a GIA report.
What is wrong is sellers lying about what they are selling you ... or not revealing the whole truth by saying the diamond is natural when only the material is natural but the color is treated.

Again, if you want a fully natural black diamond consider only those with GIA reports that grade the material and color as natural in origin.

 

[chrono]

I am confused by how the term "natural" is defined by you and the vendor. Are you looking for 100% natural (genuine and untreated) or just a real black diamond and it's fine to be treated? As Kenny said, some vendors still consider the latter natural because they are referring to the stone, not its treatment (which to me is still very misleading). The price between these two are considerable.

Natural black diamonds gets its colouration from graphite or iron (black) inclusions.
Irradiated black diamonds are actually a deep dark green.
High temperature treated diamonds changes the internal structure towards graphite, which is black.

If you are looking for an untreated genuine black diamond, I would find a place that sells those accompanied by a GIA lab memo or is willing to send it to GIA.

 

[jbkhere]

Have you thought about Black Spinel instead? http://www.bespoke-gems.com/SacredGeometrics_Gemstones_BlackSpinel.php

Looks lovely and glossy, its natural and Doug could probably cut you any size & shape you require!

+1
A Doug cut black spinel was the first thing I thought of too

 

[GregS]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the appeal in an opaque black stone. Am I missing something?

 

[Indylady]

Many are attracted to the luster and high polish of the black diamond. Some other very dark diamonds, like very, very dark browns, give off flashes of orange or red, which are also appealing. There's nothing to miss--we all have different tastes.

 

[kenny]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the appeal in an opaque black stone. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are.
People vary.

As astonishing as it may seem, others are different than you.

 

[chrono]

As astonishing as it may seem, others are different than you.

Kenny,
Yes, people vary, but your last sentence comes off as sarcasm or passive aggressive, whether you meant it or not.

Greg,
The appeal of black diamonds lies in their adamantine lustre, very shiny and reflective in a different way.

 

[GregS]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the appeal in an opaque black stone. Am I missing something?

Yes, you are.
People vary.

As astonishing as it may seem, others are different than you.

Apologies for not wording my question in a more tactful manner. No need to be condescending...

My question was answered before your response. I didn't know they gave off colored flashes.

 

[GregS]

Many are attracted to the luster and high polish of the black diamond. Some other very dark diamonds, like very, very dark browns, give off flashes of orange or red, which are also appealing. There's nothing to miss--we all have different tastes.

That explains it, spectral flashes in a black stone would be lovely. I watched some youtube videos of black diamonds and they looked dull. Must've been bottom of the barrel type stones.

 

[kenny]

Greg, I apologize for being rude.

 

[GregS]

Greg, I apologize for being rude.

No worries!

 

[ChristineRose]

The irradiated diamonds are actually very dark green and you can see the green color if you shine a bright pinpoint through them. Natural black diamonds are typically very dark brown or green, but the most prized black are the opaque carbonado, which are believed to be from meteorites but the origin is still debated! Carbonado is photoluminescent, which means that it actually glitters and flashes on its own, not just from reflected light. Carbonado though is polycrystalline and is very difficult to cut or polish. Anyhow part of it is looks, part of it is sheer coolness, part of it is just that white glitter doesn't go with everything.

 

[chrono]

Did someone say black spinel? Genuine and natural (untreated).
http://www.bespoke-gems.com/SacredGeometrics_Gemstones_BlackSpinel.php

 

[jbkhere]

Did someone say black spinel? Genuine and natural (untreated).
http://www.bespoke-gems.com/SacredGeometrics_Gemstones_BlackSpinel.php

Exactly the one I was thinking - <pitterpatter!>

 

[chrono]

Just saw that Hot Pozzum suggested Bespoke Gems earlier and I missed it.

 

[pregcurious]

The irradiated diamonds are actually very dark green and you can see the green color if you shine a bright pinpoint through them. Natural black diamonds are typically very dark brown or green, but the most prized black are the opaque carbonado, which are believed to be from meteorites but the origin is still debated! Carbonado is photoluminescent, which means that it actually glitters and flashes on its own, not just from reflected light. Carbonado though is polycrystalline and is very difficult to cut or polish. Anyhow part of it is looks, part of it is sheer coolness, part of it is just that white glitter doesn't go with everything.

I learned something new today. Thank you!

 

[ChrisA222]

That explains it, spectral flashes in a black stone would be lovely. I watched some youtube videos of black diamonds and they looked dull. Must've been bottom of the barrel type stones.

Greg, I don't believe that to be the case...there is no spectral flash in a completely opaque/black Diamond. I think the color flash was in reference to a dark brown Diamond, which may show orange or red flash.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

My understanding is that there can be some transparency or translucency in an untreated black diamond. Most black gems are opaque. I have chosen to think about treatment in a different way. It is the green way to be, you know sustainablity et al, and what better than to take unattractive brown diamonds, irradiate them, and then use them in mainly black and white diamond jewelry that women seem to want. I have seen some beautiful things. The costs were low initially, but seem to have risen.

Of course I own a 2 carat black irradiated diamond set with two trilliant clear zircons on each side. I enjoy looking at it, but it has no flash. I enjoy looking at it thinking that i have a 2ct diamond on my hand.

I now find it quite annoying to hear in every post that people vary. Doesn't sound much like Socrates to me.

Annette

 

[kenny]

For a diamond to break up white light into a spectrum of colors it has to let light in and out.
I doubt a diamond graded black by GIA does this.
I think they are opaque.

Perhaps there is some phenomenon going on at the surface of a good black diamond that results in what is described.

 

[LD]

I used to hate black diamonds - quite frankly I didn't see the point ................... until a dealer friend of mine found a natural 4ct one in a pear shape and gave it to me about 10 years ago (sorry to the OP as I know this is what you're looking for). This changed my opinion of black diamonds. I love love love it and it has the weirdest blue fluorescence that makes it look like an alien! black diamonds don't sparkle in a traditional diamond way but the light bounces nicely off the facets so it is flashy in that sense. It will perform very similarly to a black spinel.

I have seen both natural and irradiated black diamonds and it's incredibly difficult to see the difference. Since untreated black diamonds are difficult to find over 1ct and can be costly, it might be worth you checking out irradiated ones. They are natural diamonds that have simply been bombarded with radiation!

From my experience I will say that there are black diamonds and then there are black diamonds! You need to look for one that has a lovely even surface and not pitted. Pitting is a common problem with black diamonds. Also you want to make sure they're black and not just dark brown. Some of the dark brown ones have a weird look in certain lights.

 

[Niel]

The irradiated diamonds are actually very dark green and you can see the green color if you shine a bright pinpoint through them. Natural black diamonds are typically very dark brown or green, but the most prized black are the opaque carbonado, which are believed to be from meteorites but the origin is still debated! Carbonado is photoluminescent, which means that it actually glitters and flashes on its own, not just from reflected light. Carbonado though is polycrystalline and is very difficult to cut or polish. Anyhow part of it is looks, part of it is sheer coolness, part of it is just that white glitter doesn't go with everything.

I learned something new today. Thank you!

if i could say i had a diamond from a meteorite id be ridiculously happy!

 

[Silverbackmp]

I've seen irradiated black diamonds coated with some sort of moissanite film to enhance the shine; something to watch out for.

 

[ChristineRose]

Some of the scammers sell industrial-grade silicon carbide as "Black Mossanite." So far as I can tell the industrial stuff is polycrystalline and comes in powder or in ugly lumps. I believe that they mix it into some sort of ceramic and mold it to simulate a cut stone. I guess they could stick an ugly black diamond into the mold somehow and call it "natural black diamond."

It amazes me what lengths the scammers will go to to justify their malfeasance in their own minds. Take the treated rubies, which end up being a low quality natural ruby with patches made of synthetic ruby grown on a glass bead. Why bother? At that point you might as well buy a synthetic ruby which at least would be stable and look like a high quality natural ruby.

Anyhow I would stick with GIA graded black diamonds from reliable (i.e. not E-bay) sources unless you are just looking for nice-looking cheap pieces.