Help On Asscher

[douglasjay]

First this website has been extremely useful in my search for that elusive special diamond. I have been able through bribes and undercover work to figure out the type of diamond my future wife loves.

I am looking for an Asscher cut, 1.6-1.9 carats, G or higher color and clarity >VS2. My budget is up to $10K but really need help narrowing down a few great stones.

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[Todd Gray]

Your price range is not realistic for your expectations IF you are looking for a truly well cut Asscher. Run a search using the diamond search engine here on PS and limit the total depth and table diameter to 60 - 69% and take a look at what those options cost for GIA EX / EX. The Symmetry grade is of definite importance with regards to Asscher cut diamonds, pay close attention to the pattern of concentric squares that appear within the table facet - they''re supposed to be evenly spaced and shaped - we started seeing some really weird "Asscher" cut diamonds in the market over the past few months and couldn''t figure out what was going on... They looked like a cross breed between a traditional Asscher and a Royal Asscher in that they have a slightly rounded crown which makes the top look kind of like an ice cream cone and the pattern of concentric squares is all wrong. As it so happens I happened to be sitting next to one of the lab directors at a recent conclave and I asked him if he had noticed the stones passing through his lab and he said "yea, some of the cutters have been re-cutting Radiant cut diamonds into Asschers since the Asschers are more popular than Radiants right now - they''re strange!" and once I knew that was what I had been seeing, it made perfect sense! Unfortunately I''ve been seeing more poorly cut Asschers (because they''re not really Asschers) than well cut ones lately... It''s sad, the only "real" ones that I''ve seen lately are left over from what a few cutters are holding over from the stock of a well known diamond cutter that went out of business awhile back - lab reports are dated 2003 - 2004 generally with GIA EX EX ratings and they are few and far between!

 

[douglasjay]

Thanks Todd,
Is there a big difference what lab certified the diamond? I read that EGL certified diamonds are a bit lax on their diamond grading.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/4/2009 3:13:18 PM
Author: douglasjay
Thanks Todd,

Is there a big difference what lab certified the diamond? I read that EGL certified diamonds are a bit lax on their diamond grading.

yes sometimes up to 2 grades different and even sometimes 3 depending on which lab.

Well cut asschers are in short supply right now.

Your best bet is to pick a vendor and work with them.
Todd does a good job with them as does GOG www.goodoldgold.com

 

[strmrdr]

Here is my opinion on what to look for:

An asscher is one of the hardest diamonds to pick from without someone looking at it in my opinion.
Either a trusted vendor, appraiser or yourself needs to eyeball the diamond and get pictures!!!!
Never ever ever buy an asscher you haven't seen first without good pictures!!!!!!

I look for a table in the 50s low 60s.
Depth between 60% and 75%, discount over 70% unless the crown height is very very high. Very few over 70% will be worth it but the ones that are can be stunning.

crown height 10%+ and proportional to the depth, some of the best are 15%+

LW ratio as close to 1 as possible.

thick enough girdle too give durability generally med or above.
Even girdle of no more than one step m-sthick for example to better the odds on calling stones in.

clipped cornered square vs more octagonal is personal preference.
I personally like the larger corners better some like smaller corners, as long as they are wide enough to give a pleasing look with strong windmills its good.
Then it comes down to all eyeballs.
strong and even windmills?
Are the squares well defined and concentric?
Does it have the 10 mile deep look under indirect lighting?
Blinding fire in the right lighting?
Returning light in the center to anchor the patterns? (good p3 angles)

Id say that better than 95% of them will fail the last 5 tests

vg or better on polish and symmetry if shopping online.
To me it shows that the cutter took better care in cutting it and there is a better chance of the rest being right.
That isn't always the case but its something to think about.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 6/4/2009 3:13:18 PM
Author: douglasjay
Thanks Todd,

Is there a big difference what lab certified the diamond? I read that EGL certified diamonds are a bit lax on their diamond grading.

I am rather fond of the grading practices, standards and consistency provided by the AGS and GIA gemological laboratories...

How''s that for Tergiversation?

 

[douglasjay]

Do you guys have any good stones that you recommend? All the information you have provided is greatly appreciated

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/4/2009 7:58:50 PM
Author: douglasjay
Do you guys have any good stones that you recommend? All the information you have provided is greatly appreciated

I would contact on of the vendors mentioned and put them to work.
Asschers are almost always sold on a call in and checkout basis.

 

[douglasjay]

What are your thoughts on this diamond?
Report: GIA
Shape: Asscher
Carat: 1.70
Color: G
Clarity: IF
Diamond Proportions:
Measurements: 6.38x6.35x4.41
Depth Percentage: 69.40
Table Percentage: 64.00
Girdle: Thick to Very Thick
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Culet: None

Is there a drastic difference between an F or G Color rating?

 

[Todd Gray]

I try to avoid girdle thicknesses of Extremely Thin, Very Thin, Very Thick or Extremely Thick... but if that is the worse thing to consider about an Asscher I might be willing to consider it. Try to get a 3D Sarin (or equivalent) computerized proportions analysis of the diamond which will help indicate where the girdle is very thick and to what extent - it might be nothing to be concerned about.

The difference between F / G color is not something that most people can distinctly separate without a lot of coaching...

 

[douglasjay]

Are vendors willing to give out the 3D scan? based on the pricescope search are there any diamonds you would recommend or have some in your own inventory?

 

[strmrdr]

Right now most of what is on the lists in that range has been picked over multiple times.
Best bet is to contact Todd or Jon at www.goodoldgold.com and have them check into new production and what is in the pipeline.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 6/8/2009 3:35:43 PM
Author: douglasjay
Are vendors willing to give out the 3D scan? based on the pricescope search are there any diamonds you would recommend or have some in your own inventory?

I don''t know why a vendor might not want to release the 3D Sarin file, we do so automatically on all of the diamond detail pages we create for our clients along with a scanned version of the graphic file which provides a facet-by-facet breakdown of the diamond. Then again, we''re only working with the best of the best and providing detailed information only helps to set us apart from the pack - consider that with round brilliant cut diamonds, fewer than 1% meet the standards for the AGS Ideal 0 cut rating (according to a recent conversation with AGS Executive Lab Director Peter Yantzer) and that is the pool that we''re pulling from (along with a few other dealers here on PS who also specialize in this sector of the market). A dealer who focuses on selling the remaining 99% of diamonds which are cut to less precise standards might be less willing to provide in-depth information because doing so might show where that specific diamond is lacking in comparison to one cut more precisely.

Part of the conversation I shared with Peter Yantzer revolved around the fact that his laboratory is primarily used by diamond cutters who routinely produce top notch / top tier quality diamonds (focus on cut quality / optical symmetry / visual performance) because the numerical cut grading system used by the AGS Laboratory has the tendency to kill diamonds of lower cut grade "on paper"... Let''s face it, the average consumer might not know that a round brilliant cut diamond with a total depth of 62.5% with a 41.8 degree pavilion angle and a 32.5 degree pavilion angle, uh, sucks, but they certainly can figure out a rating of AGS-10 Poor (or whatever that combination of measurements equates to, I didn''t look it up).

FYI: dealers can''t refer to diamonds from their inventory here on the forum or post diamonds for sale... You''ll need to contact the vendors of your choice directly to determine what they might have available and/or be able to locate on your behalf. Happy hunting!