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Help needed to pick out 2ct engagement diamond

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johnsmith94105

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2018
Messages
3
Hello Everyone!

This is my first post and I am new to diamonds and jewelry, so apologies in advance for my naiveté. I am shopping for an engagement ring. More specifically I am looking for something above 2ct round brilliant loose diamond that will go on a silver or white gold simple classic solitaire band, something in the $20K-30K range all-in cost (I live in CA so I will chose a vendor without CA sales tax) with timeframe of delivery prior to mid May 2018. I prefer to stick to the lower price spectrum unless there is a good deal in the upper end of range. I've visited a number of jewelry stores with my finance and know what she likes. She is 5'8 and has a standard size hand (I forget the size ATM) so a bigger rock is a must. I've been tracking diamond prices for the last year and currently have two in my wishlist. I prefer value over customer experience, so am looking at buying online. I understand the top 3 online sites are BlueNile, WhiteFlash, and JamesAllen. On these sites are my standard lot of inventory that I look through, but I seem to be able to find better bargains in PriceScope's "Virtual Only" section where most do not have videos/pictures. In such case, I plan to buy the diamond after thorough research, and inspect/return if it is not what I expect. I also plan to upgrade the diamond in the next 10-15 years, so I am looking for a vendor who both has a reasonable upgrade policy and a likelihood of being around in 10-15 years.

What I would like to know is, why are both of the below diamonds priced so low? Below $9K/ct? Are these good bargains, and are they a good choice for a starter engagement ring? Am I also correct to look for an Ideal cut diamond in the 1.95 to 2.6ct range and either H and VS1/2, or I and SI1 to end up in the $20-$30K all-in price? Is there anything else I should consider before making a purchase?

Here are the two rocks I am currently looking at:
1)
2.126ct H VS2 for $18500
AGS: 104096532005 https://b2cimages.s3.amazonaws.com/images/diamond/352/10788344/certificate/10788344.jpg
8.28 - 8.32 x 5.02 mm
Cut: AGS Ideal 000
Depth: 62.5
Table: 57
Crown: 36.5
Pavilion: 41
Girdle: M-STK
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
HCA: 1.0
Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good
AGSL: Arrows map (in AGS link above) looks good to me. Hearts map not avail.
Picture/Video: Not available
Cons: Unknown if eye-clean. Because no pic/video, need to buy and inspect/return.

2)
2.17ct H VS2 for $19000
GIA: 6272739631 https://b2cimages.s3.amazonaws.com/images/diamond/1302/10920099/certificate/10920099.pdf
8.25 - 8.29 x 5.12 mm
Cut: GIA Excellent x3
Depth: 61.9
Table: 58
Crown: 36
Pavilion: 40.6
Girdle: M-STK
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
HCA: 1.9
Light Return: Very Good
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Very Good
Spread: Very Good
AGSL: No Arrows/Hearts map avail.
Picture/Video: Not available.
Cons: Unknown if eye-clean. Because no pic/video, need to buy and inspect/return.
 
Welcome! There's generally a reason stones are priced low. In the case of the first one, the inclusions look significant to me for VS2, so the stone may not be 100% eyeclean. I wouldn't consider it because I don't like it's measurements even though it is graded ideal cut. It's deeper than it should be for one thing. In the case of the second stone, it is outside of the parameters of a well cut stone with great light return. You can see that indicated in the HCA scores. You want excellent for everything but spread which will be very good using the right measurements.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

You used the term "starter engagement ring". Are you planning on an upgrade? Because if you are, Whiteflash is where you should be shopping. They carry top quality diamonds and have a great upgrade policy. You stand to lose 20-25% or more selling a diamond to buy another.

Please don't go the virtual stone route without pictures. It's simply not necessary. So many sites have photos of virtual listings now, and then you can price shop and see who has the stones for less (or you can get someone to call the stone in who will charge less). That would be true of James Allen, Blue Nile, Enchanted Diamonds, and B2C Jewels. The latter two are very low priced to begin with. But if you think you'll upgrade her stone, go with Whiteflash because you can upgrade to any amount with full value for the diamond you are trading in (minus shipping).

People here don't mind giving you stone suggestions. It probably could save you a lot of time.
 
A quick example:

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...NULLS+LAST&shape=Round#diamond=R201-512037080

I will forewarn you that many sites list some of the same stones, so one seller can sell a diamond and it may take a few days for other sellers to remove the stone from theirs. So diamonds from any of the sites that list virtual stones actually may not be available. That stone is the only one I see at ED that is a good choice.
 
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If you're looking for a great upgrade policy, go with WhiteFlash or High Performance Diamonds or Brian Gavin and the stones are already vetted. as mentioned, it saves you a lot of time.

I like this one if you're going for size.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3817253.htm

This one for value
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3568732.htm

i'd go with platinum with any of these:

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-sleek-line-solitaire-engagement-ring-729.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-4567.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...n-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-272.htm
 
Unless you are buying a pre-owned diamond it is very unlikely you will find a "steal" on a diamond.

As others have noted the two diamonds you linked are not well-cut. Even though they are AGS Ideal and GIA XXX you could find a diamond with better light performance.

johnsmith94105 said:
Hello Everyone!

This is my first post and I am new to diamonds and jewelry, so apologies in advance for my naiveté. I am shopping for an engagement ring. More specifically I am looking for something above 2ct round brilliant loose diamond that will go on a silver or white gold simple classic solitaire band, something in the $20K-30K range all-in cost (I live in CA so I will chose a vendor without CA sales tax) with timeframe of delivery prior to mid May 2018. I prefer to stick to the lower price spectrum unless there is a good deal in the upper end of range. I've visited a number of jewelry stores with my finance and know what she likes. She is 5'8 and has a standard size hand (I forget the size ATM) so a bigger rock is a must. I've been tracking diamond prices for the last year and currently have two in my wishlist. I prefer value over customer experience, so am looking at buying online. I understand the top 3 online sites are BlueNile, WhiteFlash, and JamesAllen. On these sites are my standard lot of inventory that I look through, but I seem to be able to find better bargains in PriceScope's "Virtual Only" section where most do not have videos/pictures. In such case, I plan to buy the diamond after thorough research, and inspect/return if it is not what I expect. I also plan to upgrade the diamond in the next 10-15 years, so I am looking for a vendor who both has a reasonable upgrade policy and a likelihood of being around in 10-15 years.

What I would like to know is, why are both of the below diamonds priced so low? Below $9K/ct? Are these good bargains, and are they a good choice for a starter engagement ring? Am I also correct to look for an Ideal cut diamond in the 1.95 to 2.6ct range and either H and VS1/2, or I and SI1 to end up in the $20-$30K all-in price? Is there anything else I should consider before making a purchase?

Here are the two rocks I am currently looking at:
1)
2.126ct H VS2 for $18500
AGS: 104096532005 https://b2cimages.s3.amazonaws.com/images/diamond/352/10788344/certificate/10788344.jpg
8.28 - 8.32 x 5.02 mm
Cut: AGS Ideal 000
Depth: 62.5
Table: 57
Crown: 36.5
Pavilion: 41
Girdle: M-STK
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
HCA: 1.0
Light Return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good
AGSL: Arrows map (in AGS link above) looks good to me. Hearts map not avail.
Picture/Video: Not available
Cons: Unknown if eye-clean. Because no pic/video, need to buy and inspect/return.

2)
2.17ct H VS2 for $19000
GIA: 6272739631 https://b2cimages.s3.amazonaws.com/images/diamond/1302/10920099/certificate/10920099.pdf
8.25 - 8.29 x 5.12 mm
Cut: GIA Excellent x3
Depth: 61.9
Table: 58
Crown: 36
Pavilion: 40.6
Girdle: M-STK
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
HCA: 1.9
Light Return: Very Good
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Very Good
Spread: Very Good
AGSL: No Arrows/Hearts map avail.
Picture/Video: Not available.
Cons: Unknown if eye-clean. Because no pic/video, need to buy and inspect/return.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I will look at the links given today. Given that I'm looking for 2ct+, shouldn't I be looking for VS2 or better and/or G-H color range? A good value compromise I thought would be H color with VS2, or G color with SI1, and to stay away from I color SI1s since my budget can allow it.

Also curious why nobody seems to use the $/ct metric? While it is certainly not the most important, it gives a good general benchmark. I found it extremely useful to benchmark house buying in $/sqft, when it seemed nobody else was doing that...
 
Because a carat in diamond A is totally different from a carat in diamond B. They may weigh the same (by definition) but the quality and performance will be totally different! A poorly cut stone will retain more carat weight because it is cut with sub-optimal angles (i.e. it is steep-deep) and the light performance will suffer for that. Accordingly, the price per carat will be much lower than an ideal cut stone of the same weight.

It seems like a better "value" but you're really paying for carats that perform poorly.

Think of it using your real estate example -- a square foot in a 100 year old fixer upper is not going to be the same quality as a square foot in a luxury condo built in the last 5 years.

johnsmith94105 said:
Also curious why nobody seems to use the $/ct metric? While it is certainly not the most important, it gives a good general benchmark. I found it extremely useful to benchmark house buying in $/sqft, when it seemed nobody else was doing that...
Click to expand...
 
johnsmith94105 said:
Thanks everyone for the input. I will look at the links given today. Given that I'm looking for 2ct+, shouldn't I be looking for VS2 or better and/or G-H color range? A good value compromise I thought would be H color with VS2, or G color with SI1, and to stay away from I color SI1s since my budget can allow it.
Click to expand...

That's all dependent on you. is your primary goal size? (you said a bigger rock is a must so that was my priority when looking) Color is subjective though and some people don't want to see any tint from the side. so definitely can see the want for a H or better colored stone. Don't let clarity be a determining factor. If the stone is eye clean, WF will list it as such. Think about how zoomed in these videos are and how small the stone actually is IRL. IMO why pay for something you can't see?
 

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Well, I personally prefer balance in specs, so I do prefer VS clarity when I am paying for a well cut diamond with good color. It's just overall good quality, in my opinion, if the budget allows (which yours does). I thought your choice of H VS2 was an awesome choice and good place to start.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
Whiteflash has several good choices, and honestly, to get top cut quality and the upgrade policy, this is the way I would go since you have a very nice budget.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3956080.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3907532.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3885296.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965446.htm
Click to expand...

All of these are excellent choices, but the third one is primo with 34.5CA, 40.8PA, and 55.3%Table. Crown should produce lots of dispersion too.
 
Whiteflash was awesome to deal with and they have a great trade policy. I purchased two ACA diamonds from them that flat out blew away her 22year old AGS 000 cut stone. Now that was a great diamond and still is but when I saw the ACA stones, unbelievable.

As mentioned above that 3rd diamond has great specs, that almost exactly the specs on my wife’s 2.08 GVS2 ACA. There is not a day that goes by that somebody does not comment on how awesome her diamond is, I am not exaggerating. That thing throws off so much fire it’s ridiculous. I live in So Cal and flew to Texas and went to WFs store, very impressive. You can’t go wrong here. Buy once, cry once, ACA super ideals live up to the hype, they really are that awesome.
 
Don't get hung up on clarity. To a large extent clarity is largely a mind-clean issue and can have absolutely have no bearing on how the stone looks/sparkles. As long as it's eye-clean with no clouds I would not rule out SI1 stones. It's all about cut. Beyond that color is important to me as I can differentiate easily and prefer colorless RBs. I have seen VS2s that are visually much less appealing than SI1s. The difference was, and nearly always will be cut.
I have a D color RB AGS0 stone and it's SI1. It's a gorgeous stone, and not just in my opinion. I wouldn't trade it for an H VS stone. My mind can handle the clarity but my eyes can't handle the color. In my next life I plan to be much less color sensitive.
 
diamondseeker2006 said:
A G VS2 ACA is possible within his budget. Just depends on preference for size versus color.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3965480.htm
Click to expand...
that's a great diamond!

OP, one other thing, I was a nut on specs, splitting hairs on ACA diamonds, also caught up with color and clarity. While the internet is great, you can really get caught up with it. I was dead set on sticking with F color and VS1 clarity as that was the combo my wife had I her original diamond as well as a pendant. I thought that was the baseline, well until I flew out to WF last year and spent about 3+ hours comparing diamonds. Color, well, I have good eyes and am very color sensitive, to me I could not really even see the difference when blind tested on stone colors in perfect grading conditions, after critically looking at them side by side I could barley see the smallest difference, but really after 3-5 minutes back and forth I gave up, Face up, forget about it, now I am talking 1 color grade, for me it was F or G, I am glad I listened to WF and the great folks on this forum, as the difference from G - F was about $4000 for the same diamond, and I could not see a difference. clarity, again, don't get stuck on the 500x magnified photos, I also looked at a number of VS1 and VS2 diamonds, lucked out on a VS2 that literally must have been a low VS1. If it's eye clean, you will not see anything with out 10x mag, trust WF.

Lastly, comparing WF ACA diamonds to see which stone is better is very much an exercise in frustration. I had 3-4 ACA diamonds of very similar size and of F & G color and looked at them in multiple lighting for at least an hour, and took a break for coffee then came back. When I thought I saw one that looked like it had a tiny bit more fire or sparkle, I had the WF reps swap the placement of the diamonds with my eyes closed then had me pick the same stone again, I was wrong every time. if it's a ACA you will be fine, they have a pretty strict grading parameter and they have forgotten more about diamonds that we will ever know. I am no diamond expert but I have an extremely critical eye, and am OCD off the charts, trust WF, they will tell you if there is any difference in stones, they are very honest. In the end I went with a G VS2 and we are beyond happy. Glad I flew out to see them in person as it really allowed me to get past the hang ups that the internet can sometimes create with information overload.

Let us know which one you go with.
 
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Hi everyone,

Just following up. I'm close to pulling the trigger on these:
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...-solitaire-engagement-ring-by-vatche-4567.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3979468.htm

Which are:
2.284ct Whiteflash ACA J SI1 on solitaire 6-prong platinum for $18K+$2K=$20K

Her hand size is a 6.

Contrary to my previous decisions, I decided to go with Whiteflash due to their upgrade program. I also planned to spend a bit less money this time around and go for value. Save the money and upgrade in a few years into a slightly higher size, color, and clarity ACA. I can also reuse the ring up to ~2.5ct, or trade-in at 50% if the next diamond size doesn't fit. And as for mitigating risk, if there was anything wrong with this particular diamond (i.e. J-color too warm), I could easily change it for a different diamond with Whiteflash.

Here are what I took into consideration:
1) Trade-up program was a must; I also didn't want blue nile's 100% higher value restriction since we're talking about going from $20K to $40K to $80K, not $5K to $10K to $20K!
2) To save a lot of time, I decided to only look at ACA and Expert Selection diamonds. For the Expert Selection I had their gemologist take a look to see what was wrong and why it wasn't ACA. I also had them compare several diamonds side-by-side so I could do relative evaluation (similar to an optometrist) rather than absolute evaluation.
3) The main priorities for me were cost, size, then cut.
4) Lower on the totem pole were color and clarity (SI1 is fine so long as eye-clean). I would have preferred an H or I instead of J. The next diamond will likely be F-I range. We did take a look at 2ct H's and I's and they looked fine. I would think buying an ACA would further mask any color tint. For the J-color, the gemologist said face-up was colorless; color could be seen only from the side.
5) I was looking for diamonds that weren't listed for an overly long period of time. This particular rock was AGS certified in March 30 2018, so listed 1 month ago.

Once I pull the trigger on this purchase and receive it, I'll post pics back here.
 
Excellent advice and an excellent choice. If you intend to upgrade, it is essential to go with a vendor who will give you top dollar, without any unreasonable restrictions.
Looking forward to lots of photos in due course.
 
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